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[aldien]

Fall Deere wrote...

But the way I was writing it was a HUGE undertaking. I had planned to write every. single. scene. from DAII from my Hawke's Point Of View. Instead, I'm working on writing a diary kept by Hawke. In the game, she makes a comment about keeping a journal/diary, right?

In that story, I have it figured that Hawke met Anders first and kinda fell for him because he was a follow apostate who might have slightly reminded her of her father at first. However, when she later saw Fenris... Anders who? Haha. Later, though, when Fenris leaves her, being extremely hurt, she turns to Anders and nearly sleeps with him... until that extremely horrible comment about Fenris being a beast or monster or something and turning on her. I'll have to find a YouTube video of that scene again... I haven't actually played through the story in my head yet. lol. Anyways, after that comment, she realizes that even though he left her, Hawke still feels something for Fenris and won't betray him, even if she believes Fenris no longer loves her.

Yeah, I have a pretty complex story in my head that I haven't been able to share until now. XD

I'm considering rivalmancing Merrill with a Male Hawke... There's no possible way I could friendmance her without cringing constantly. I strongly disagree with her most of the time and rarely have a friendship with her. Blood magic... >.< I'll probably never be able to romance anyone but Fenris ever again, though. He's just too awesome. Or ridiculously awesome as another one of my favorite elves would say.

By the way, I'm pretty sure Fenris smiles a bit even in a rivalmance. I've only played a rivalmance one and a half times, but I could swear he smiled at least twice... I could be wrong, though. Mostly, I've just watched YouTube videos. XD I don't have the time to play DAII much anymore...

I like the diary idea better. It will be more personal and less like a recitation of the game. You also will be able to make her point of view unique, exactly how you see her and her friends, which I personally think is far more interesting. I like reading about how people see their Hawkes especially when they are paired with FenFen. I think she says memoirs, which is different than a diary. But don't limit yourself by what the game says. I could see Hawke keeping a diary as well and Varric sneaking a peek

Yes, Bethany says to Anders at one point that he reminds her of Malcolm. But... I read that, although Malcolm believed in freedom for mages, what he didn't believe in was being irresponsible. If Malcolm believed he had been possessed he would have turned himself in to the templars. You can see that is in stark contrast to Anders. He made certain to instill that into his children. I think that is why Meredith says that Bethany is an explemporary mage. Hawke, (whether male of female) and Malcolm also had a strong relationship according to the game. So I can see Marian getting wrapped up in Ander's passion for freedom until it gets irresponsible. My personal opinion is that papa Hawke would have been horrified to see so many people get hurt in the name of mage freedom. It could be one reason, besides the fact Fenris is gorgeous, that turns her away from Anders. LOL although Fenris is simply enough reason to ditch Anders imo.

 
Later, though, when Fenris leaves her, being extremely hurt, she turns to Anders and nearly sleeps with him... until that extremely horrible comment about Fenris being a beast or monster or something and turning on he 

I get that and it really angered me in the game that Anders would take her up on the offer after she has just been dumped by Fenris! Anyone who cared for Hawke would have hopefully had the dignity to suggest maybe it was too soon after the break up. It's also another example of how you can see how much Fenris loves Hawke because if Hawke does get together with Anders, Fenris tells him that if he hurts Hawke he will kill him.

I think Anders calls him a wild dog. Uggggg. It's an insult to not only Fenris but Hawke. 

It is complex and that is usually a good sign. You need to get it out of your head and on paper. Share away. Many people on this thread write and they understand where you are coming from.

Yes, if you do a Merrill romance make sure it as a rival. The friendship one is just creepy and you lose points if you don't kill her clan and instead say you will make sure she doesn't hurt anyone again. She has more humility when rivaled. 

Oh he does smile on rivalry! I just hate seeing him upset at all. 



by: 
NarutoLover6219 

 

Modifié par aldien, 11 avril 2013 - 04:31 .

[Fall Deere]

I completely agree with what you said about Anders and Papa Hawke (hehe "Papa Hawke XD). I haven't played the DLC where he shows up, but I picture him a lot like you described him just now. I figure as Hawke realizes how Anders is an extremest, she'd become less and less fond of him... Plus, like you said, Fenris alone is enough reason to just ignore Anders completely. XD

Ugh, Anders seems so self-centered and... Well, I could rant about him for hours and still say nothing of importance. XD Though, I do appreciate having such a good character in the story to hate. As a writer myself, I am in awe of the Dragon Age writer's abilities to make such interesting characters that I've become emotionally involved with.

I am working on writing the diary! Last night, I looked over the entries I'd written so far. I've only made it to where she first meets Fenris. I'm going to have to either play the game... again... or watch a LOT of YouTube videos to remind myself about what all happens.

I've finished three play throughs! The first one, of course, I romanced Anders... and actually cried when he blew up the Chantry. I mean, seriously... I cried. Throughout that game, I kept trying to be friends with Fenris because I didn't realize rivalry was okay. XD It took forever, but thankfully I was able to get him to 100% rivalry before the final showdown. The second game I played, I friendmanced Fenris... but it broke my heart to hurt so many mages. The third time was my rivalmance. <33 I'll never go back. Ever.

All that to say, I don't have all the Fenris Rivalry scenes clear in my head so I have to refresh my memory before I can go any further. Plus, Anders is going to be a big part of the story, so I need to figure out all the important scenes with him, as well as all the choices I want this Hawke to make. I don't want this to be purely a Hawke/Fenris love fest. I want it to actually be compelling and involved with every aspect of the story I love so much. <33

o.O... I talk too much... sorry for hijacking this thread. I just don't have anyone I can fangirl over Fenris with. ;_;

I'll definitely post a link to this FanFic here eventually. I might go ahead and get a Fanfiction.net account and post chapters/diary entries as I write them.

Aw, that picture. <33 I'll hug you, Fenris!

[coldwetn0se]

@aldy - Dammit! You would have to say that the Rivalmance with Merrill is better. I usually rival her as a friend, but Derpity-Do-Da-Day Hawke, could never Rivalmance her....it goes against his very stupid, big hearted nature. I mean he is such a dullard, and goofy....course, I could give him a great big case of "Foot-in-Mouthitis". That is a thought!!

@Fall Deere - I like your diary/journal idea. I hope you give a few sneek peeks.
I will say this though, regarding Rivalmance vs. Friendmance with Fenris. I almost always support the Mages (of 12 runs, I have sided with the Templars 3 times), and almost always Friendmance Fenris. It really can be done. I even got it to work on my very first blind run through (though it did take me to Act 3 to get him maxed on Friendship).

Granted, I don't take him on every quest. I can justify this role play wise since many of the big hit points you can get with him, come from a couple of quests in Act 1. I just role play that I barely know him at that time, and since he has made his stance on mages clear from the get go, maybe he might not be the best choice to take with me. Want to feel I will get the support I need from the group I lead. There is generally only one mage related quest in Act 1, where I sometimes don't "appear" to side with the mage in question (Wayward Son). And since you can gain good friend points from Fenris when dealing with the slavers (and I don't have issue role playing my reasons for turning Feynriel over to the circle...when I am playing that way), I generally always have Fenris with me. It also works in my favor if I am Rivalling Anders. Oh, and taking him to pick up Merrill, also gets you good points (all of my Hawkes have been anti-blood magic).

As for rivalmancing Fenris in general. My primary reason for not Rivalmancing him (usually), is just a few instances, where the "language" between Hawke and Fenris come out sounding almost.....bitter. Not generally what some would want at the beginning of a budding relationship. At least from my experience. heh! I have Rivalmanced him before, and it worked well for the Hawke I rped (M!Hawke 2hd Warrior/Aggro-Sarcastic, very devoted to his family), but most of my other Hawkes just wound up working better in a Friendmance. Especially my Direct/Diplo's with a bit of Aggro and a smidgen of Sarcastic. Very simpatico with Fen. LOL

**EDIT**
BTW, I freakin' ADORE that panel you posted, @aldy! HA!

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 11 avril 2013 - 05:57 .

[okiness]

Oh Anders. One of my best friends LOVES him so I have heard everything good about him, and it makes me not hate him. But what gets me closer than the Chantry or anything else is THE WAY HE TALKS TO FENRIS. Like, Fenris will ALWAYS agree to disagree or even, as he said "It was a suggestion, not a condemnation." The man has been brutally tortured to the point of having it destroy his memories, he finds some room in his heart to at least trust the woman he loves when the chantry thing occurs. I looove you guys sometimes. Sometimes I just WANT TO TALK ABOUT FENRIS AND YOU GUYS I just
have some sketches from me while I try to finish my big sized art


http://24.media.tumb...dbnvo1_1280.jpg and this as well, this one is slightly sketchier and has a few fun scenarios, including my obsessive about her appearance hawke getting a "You dont have to wear makeup to be pretty." Not as a confidence booster, but more as a, Dont obsess so much. Subtle subtle moments.

I'll be back to give more input later. . . I love all of you, these discussions cheer me right up, lol! I agree on Fenris Rivalmance in some regards. I just. . . I want him to be happy all the time sobs

[Fall Deere]

Hmm... Maybe I'm strange but I never see Fenris any more unhappy when rivalmanced than when friendmanced... He's broody no matter what, right? XD Maybe it's just the fact that I just can't let him get away with calling all mages evil that blinds me to his feelings. -shrug- I'm never mean to him in my rivalries and usually choose sarcastic options... I just always support mages (not blood mages though).

I probably should be doing a playthrough where I rivalmance Fenris again so I can write this fan fic, but my computer crashed before I could save the game I started... so I started one where I plan to rivalmance Merrill instead. I haven't romanced anyone but Anders or Fenris before, so this ought to be interesting. I finally have a sarcastic male Hawke! I'm interested to see why everyone think he's the best. XD

I'm wondering if it's worth my time to romance Isabela... I'm kinda eh about her, though I do admittedly dislike Merrill more than I dislike Isabela, but that's mostly because of the whole blood magic thing rather than her actual personality. Don't get me wrong; I think Isabela is hilarious, but I don't see the romance being very interesting and she annoys me at times.

Anyways, I made a Fanfiction.net account and I plan to put the few diary entries I have written so far up there soon. I'll post a link if that ever happens. Like I said, I've only gotten to Fenris's first quest and I plan on writing an entry for every important quest/plot point.

Okiness, that's an adorable picture. <33

[aldien]

You do not actually get to see what Papa Hawke looks like in the DLC :/ I love him anyway and imagine him looking like the Destiny trailer Hawke. But that's my own weird perviness. If you have time to play consider buying Legacy. You get some extra romance lines from Fenris and they are so awkward and adorable! Or watch it on YouTube if you don't have the time. My favorite people for Legacy was sarcastic MHawke or FHawke (they are both great), Bethany, Varric, Fenris and Aveline. They have some cute moments together and you get insight into the Hawke family and Fenris's friendship with Donnic, which is sweet.

I do appreciate having such a good character in the story to hate

Agreed. Anders does evoke strong emotions, though negative for me, but the fact the character can do that is fantastic. I still hate him though :/ Hehehe.

Glad to hear you are writing! I hope you find it rewarding and I also hope it gives a deep insight into why you are attracted to Fenris. Writing the characters for yourself seems to make the connection with them stronger. That can be a double edged sword when you share with other people. They may not see what you see, but in the end it doesn't matter what they think. Write for yourself first.

I remember sitting there with my mouth open when he blew up the Chantry. It is a very emotional moment. I felt betrayed, angry in complete turmoil and denial. Anyone else have that when you romanced him? I kept thinking how could I not see what he was?

You can friendmance Fenris and support mages. You just have to be kind of savvy about how you do it. I do what Coldy said. I take Fenris on missions that I think suits him in the beginning. My Hawke doesn't know him, but she knows enough to be aware what may set him off. I guess it is meta gaming (correct phrase?) I am going to do a rivalmance with Fenris as an experiment. I have always seen Hawke as supporting mages no matter what. Daddy was a mage. How can Hawke not like mages? Maybe it will appeal with a new mindset.

. I don't want this to be purely a Hawke/Fenris love fest. I want it to actually be compelling and involved with every aspect of the story I love so much. <33

Good on you! Nothing screams unrealistic when it is all roses and wine! Honestly, death and dismemberment is more interesting ;)But seriously, I like the approach you are taking.

You're not hijacking! We all love to fangirl and fanboy over him. It's nice to have some fresh perspective. It's like experiencing that first love with Fenris all over again. *swoons* You reminded me why I love him so much.

Please post a link or put it in your signature. I am intrigued to see what you write. I still owe Ren many chapters of reading. I suspect she will spank me at any moment

@aldy - Dammit! You would have to say that the Rivalmance with Merrill is better. I usually rival her as a friend, but Derpity-Do-Da-Day Hawke, could never Rivalmance her....it goes against his very stupid, big hearted nature. I mean he is such a dullard, and goofy....course, I could give him a great big case of "Foot-in-Mouthitis". That is a thought!!

Okay, I totally get where you are coming from. I'm on Act II of the rival romance and I completely finished the friendmance with Merrill. The rivalmance with Merrill is not like the Fenris rivalmance. So, since my MHawke is a big softie and fun loving he did not do things to deliberately upset Merrill. He fell in love with her and wanted the best for the elf. When he was aggro it was because he was worried she was going to get hurt. He wasn't patronizing like the Keeper and he respected her choices until they sounded dangerous. There are ways to rival Merrill without hurting mages. For instance, destroying Tahrone's evil tomes makes her very angry. You get like +10 rivalry for each one destroyed. Telling her not to fix a mirror that murdered someone doesn't feel like it does when you argue with Fenris about mages. Just call her out when it feels wrong. You have to trust me on this because it doesn't turn out like you think. You also have to stick with it when it feels like she is ending the romance. What she says, I think will shock you. It did me and then Merrill's character made so much sense after that moment. She is... well I saw some of myself in her right before she hooked up with Hawke. I don't want to spoil it for you. Friendmance is weird because your Hawke has to turn psychotic and be willing to defend her no matter what. Do you really want to tell her she is right when people die? Her romance is moral rather than about principles, if that makes sense.

That picture of Fenris and Hawke summed up my idea of Fenris. It is so him in my mind. He's adorable. I'm glad you liked it

Okiness have you ever handed Fenris over to Danarius with Anders present? I haven't but I have watched it on YouTube, It is the number one reason I dislike Anders.

You are not strange for loving the rivalmance Fall Deere. Ren loves it too and I respect that. Challenging Fenris's views is not a bad thing at all. The reasons you gave for how Hawke sees mages and the world made sense. It's just preference and there is nothing wrong with that. And he is broody no matter what!

What put me off Isabela was Zevran funnily enough. (Don't hit me) My MHawke was into the romance until Zev shows up on the scene. When she talks about going off and having sex with him while Hawke is standing there it breaks my heart. I love Zev and I don't blame him because he has no idea what is going on. But Hawke has to be emphatic about Isabela not going off with Zev. The reason this bothered me was because Isabela makes it clear that she does not want Hawke to give her reason to regret being with him. My Hawke in that pt adores her and he can't understand why she would go off with someone else. It's a double standard in his mind. But that's me and the way I see it. Her romance fell short for me during Act III.

Sorry for the long post!

Modifié par aldien, 12 avril 2013 - 12:03 .

[coldwetn0se]

@aldy - Dammit! You would have to say that the Rivalmance with Merrill is better. I usually rival her as a friend, but Derpity-Do-Da-Day Hawke, could never Rivalmance her....it goes against his very stupid, big hearted nature. I mean he is such a dullard, and goofy....course, I could give him a great big case of "Foot-in-Mouthitis". That is a thought!!

Okay, I totally get where you are coming from. I'm on Act II of the rival romance and I completely finished the friendmance with Merrill. The rivalmance with Merrill is not like the Fenris rivalmance. So, since my MHawke is a big softie and fun loving he did not do things to deliberately upset Merrill. He fell in love with her and wanted the best for the elf. When he was aggro it was because he was worried she was going to get hurt. He wasn't patronizing like the Keeper and he respected her choices until they sounded dangerous. There are ways to rival Merrill without hurting mages. For instance, destroying Tahrone's evil tomes makes her very angry. You get like +10 rivalry for each one destroyed. Telling her not to fix a mirror that murdered someone doesn't feel like it does when you argue with Fenris about mages. Just call her out when it feels wrong. You have to trust me on this because it doesn't turn out like you think. You also have to stick with it when it feels like she is ending the romance. What she says, I think will shock you. It did me and then Merrill's character made so much sense after that moment. She is... well I saw some of myself in her right before she hooked up with Hawke. I don't want to spoil it for you. Friendmance is weird because your Hawke has to turn psychotic and be willing to defend her no matter what. Do you really want to tell her she is right when people die? Her romance is moral rather than about principles, if that makes sense.

That picture of Fenris and Hawke summed up my idea of Fenris. It is so him in my mind. He's adorable. I'm glad you liked it

Okiness have you ever handed Fenris over to Danarius with Anders present? I haven't but I have watched it on YouTube, It is the number one reason I dislike Anders.

You are not strange for loving the rivalmance Fall Deere. Ren loves it too and I respect that. Challenging Fenris's views is not a bad thing at all. The reasons you gave for how Hawke sees mages and the world made sense. It's just preference and there is nothing wrong with that. And he is broody no matter what!

What put me off Isabela was Zevran funnily enough. (Don't hit me) My MHawke was into the romance until Zev shows up on the scene. When she talks about going off and having sex with him while Hawke is standing there it breaks my heart. I love Zev and I don't blame him because he has no idea what is going on. But Hawke has to be emphatic about Isabela not going off with Zev. The reason this bothered me was because Isabela makes it clear that she does not want Hawke to give her reason to regret being with him. My Hawke in that pt adores her and he can't understand why she would go off with someone else. It's a double standard in his mind. But that's me and the way I see it. Her romance fell short for me during Act III.

Sorry for the long post!

Oh, I don't have a problem with Rivalling Merrill with "kindness" and "charm".  That is how I often do it with a non-romanced Hawke.  BUT, we are talking about Dorky-Duffus Hawke...LOL.  He's the sort of dolt who would read the first damn book of Tahronne's he came across, because he would want to try and look at the pictures...heh!  (Remember - pretty AND dumb!) Boom!  He'd end up with Friend points.  My intention for him is to be all over the place...he may be the "older" brother, but Beth will be doing the parenting here.  Mom just things her boy can do no wrong....sucka!

Interesting bit about Issy, when it came to Zev's proposition.  I figured you knew about that, and took steps to shut that down before hand (like not bring Issy with you...hehe!) I got off easy, because my Ezriel Hawke romanced her....they were the Wonderslag Twins.  Hell, I used to send them off to the Blooming Rose together....and he let her stick around for Jethan's bit of "servicing" in Act. 1.    So, when Zev made the proposal, Ez just made sure HE was invited. LOL!!

[Fall Deere]

I'll probably have to just watch Legacy on youTube. I have no money to spare. The only DLC I've bought was Sebastian but I have yet to get to Act II in my newest games (I keep getting bored and quiting...) so I haven't seen him much yet. ;_; I'll romance him eventually. XD Anyways, I've already watched a few scenes from Legacy, but I've avoided it for the most part because I didn't want spoilers in case I did end up getting it. However, it seems unlikely at this point so I'll just go ahead and watch it. I doubt I'll be able to incorporate it into my story, though... It'll depend on how good the videos I find are at showing the important going ons. I wasn't really planning on putting any DLC in this fic... hmm... We'll see.

I'm actually a self published author. I'm not good with long complicated plots, but character development and relationships are always fun to explore, which is why I want to write this fan fic so badly. Already have a plot, just have to develop the characters properly in the text. I'm also excited to develop relationships beyond Hawke and Fenris. I imagine this Hawke really liking Varric because of his stories, greatly respecting Aveline for all she's accomplished, liking Merrill but not supporting a lot of her choices, and of course Anders... It'll be interesting to see what her diary entry after Anders blows up the Chantry says. I've decided she'll spare him and he'll help fight against the templars, so I'll have to make sure her reasoning for sparing him makes sense to the reader. Plus, Fenris's reaction to sparing him, which we never really see in the game. He obviously is for killing him, but makes no further comment against Anders as far as I remember. I have it figured, though, that Hawke and Fenris agree that if they ever see Anders again, he's dead meat. XD

I rivaled Merrill last time I played, even though I was a mage-supporting mage. I started out friendship, but didn't give her the thingy to fix the mirror so it made her a rival. That worked out perfectly since I do agree with her a lot at the first, until she starts going nuts. I may or may not do that this time. It'll depend on how this Hawke develops... I haven't decided his stance on everything yet.

Ah, Isabela and Zevran... Well, all I have to say is that I don't care about Isabela cheating on Hawke, but if I import my playthrough of DAO where I romanced Zevran and he sleeps with Isabela and/or Hawke, he's a dead man. I normally go for Alistar, but Fenris got me hooked on elves, so I'm currently romancing Zev. He's fun, but I'm still happy with my Alistar. <33 Well, I'm happier with Fenris, but sadly Fenris isn't in DAO so I have to settle. (Unless I want to just stay in Lothering forever and keep clicking on the Templar with Fenris's voice... but of course, that would be creepy, so I don't do that... much )

[okiness]

For me, I think it's like - he is happy in both actually! You make him happy. But in friendmance its because once in his life, he trusts and loves someone who understands him. My headcanon is weird

sobs

[coldwetn0se]

@Fall Deere - As a general rule, any DAO import I do, where Zev has been romanced by that particular Warden, I do NOT bring Issy along for "A Murder of Crows". Also choose NOT to have Hawke "flirt" with Zevran. Since they never fixed the "bug" with Zev's romance flags, I have to do a little metagaming when it comes to that quest. That way I never have to see/hear Zev propositioning Issy or Hawke. Unless it is my Zyla Mahariel; she was a "free-spirited" type of gal.

XD

@Okiness - Nothing wrong with focusing on your own headcanon. Enjoy!

[Dutchess]

Fall Deere wrote...

Hmm... Maybe I'm strange but I never see Fenris any more unhappy when rivalmanced than when friendmanced... He's broody no matter what, right? XD Maybe it's just the fact that I just can't let him get away with calling all mages evil that blinds me to his feelings. -shrug- I'm never mean to him in my rivalries and usually choose sarcastic options... I just always support mages (not blood mages though).

I think an important thing that gives people the impression of Fenris being unhappy is how his QB in act 3 begins. When friended, he's relaxed and having conversation with Aveline and Varric, while in the rivalry version, he is pacing in front of the hearth and when Hawke enters he's all: "festis bei uno canavarum.":P He also reacts negatively to his two gifts when rivaled, so his anger does seem to surface more. I can understand that people don't really like that interpret it as Fenris being unhappy, although I believe he's not exactly happy throughout the game when friended either. After all in both scenarios he's struggling with Danarius and the brief return of his memories.

I probably should be doing a playthrough where I rivalmance Fenris again so I can write this fan fic, but my computer crashed before I could save the game I started... so I started one where I plan to rivalmance Merrill instead.

Haha, I did a fiction playthrough as well, and saved before every Fenris moment. Then I went through every talk like ten times because I did need the exact lines in my fanfiction, and it's hard to remember the exact words. LOL. Youtube can be a great help, though. When you're after things Fenris says, both friendship and rivalry videos have been uploaded by several people. My problem was that sometimes that the one thing I wanted Hawke to say was not chosen by the video makers, so I had to try it in the game myself to get it right. Oh, work, work.

I'm wondering if it's worth my time to romance Isabela... I'm kinda eh about her, though I do admittedly dislike Merrill more than I dislike Isabela, but that's mostly because of the whole blood magic thing rather than her actual personality. Don't get me wrong; I think Isabela is hilarious, but I don't see the romance being very interesting and she annoys me at times.

I did a friendmance with her with a guy Hawke, and I did like it. She is the perfect match for a sarcastic Hawke, and I thought it was pretty sweet how she comes to realize in the end that she's having feelings for Hawke and decides not to run away from it anymore (kinda like Fenris).

aldien wrote...

I have always seen Hawke as supporting mages no matter what. Daddy was a mage. How can Hawke not like mages? Maybe it will appeal with a new mindset.

Well, if your Hawke is not a mage, you can always pretend to be a second Carver.

Please post a link or put it in your signature. I am intrigued to see what you write. I still owe Ren many chapters of reading. I suspect she will spank me at any moment

*swoops down and spanks aldy*

What put me off Isabela was Zevran funnily enough. (Don't hit me) My MHawke was into the romance until Zev shows up on the scene. When she talks about going off and having sex with him while Hawke is standing there it breaks my heart. I love Zev and I don't blame him because he has no idea what is going on. But Hawke has to be emphatic about Isabela not going off with Zev. The reason this bothered me was because Isabela makes it clear that she does not want Hawke to give her reason to regret being with him. My Hawke in that pt adores her and he can't understand why she would go off with someone else. It's a double standard in his mind. But that's me and the way I see it. Her romance fell short for me during Act III.

Can't you shoot her down when she intends to go with Zev? I thought Hawke could pull a jealousy act there. I think your misinterpreting Isabela's intentions here, or at least I interpret it differently. I assume the way she handles sex has become a habit for her, and when her old lover shows up, she falls back into that habit, for a moment not considering what it's like for Hawke. She's only been in a disfunctional marriage, so she is not sure how to handle a relationship. It's up to Hawke to make his/her boundaries known, and I believe that Isabela will do her best to respect them then.

[aldien]

Coldy how much you love me?

This should make Zev's lines fire correctly. It does for Alistair.

http://social.biowar...t/4364/#details

You will have to import again and then start a new DA2 game.

Reply more when I have time

Modifié par aldien, 12 avril 2013 - 06:42 .

[coldwetn0se]

aldien wrote...

Coldy how much you love me?

This should make Zev's lines fire correctly. It does for Alistair.

http://social.biowar...t/4364/#details

Reply more when I have time

This is how much I love ya, peach!



 *makes dramatic slo-mo running towards her beloved Zevran......<SPLAT!> trips on a tree root, falls flat on her face!* (Zev is amused.....cheeky elf )

[CuriousArtemis]

Pfffft .... Fenris Dress-up!!

[okiness]

I was thinking on it and I realized one of the cool things about different Hawke's and Fenris. Like, dependant upon your choices and origin, you really do give Fenris different things he needs. Like a mage that romances him gives him understanding and compassion he would definitely not feel otherwise. A man, he can probably recover much easier from the fact that his abuser was a man and in fact a male mage probably gives him a renewed outlook. Maybe not always positive, maybe not always easy, but definitely a neat introspective look.

I think with a woman, especially in rivalmance, he can see antagonistic reminders of say Hadriana and realize that in an equal relationship it's fine. Because he can say whatever he wants and people WILL note Hawke being called on it. I think that's the coolest thing about the Fenris romance, and many of the romanes in DA2, there is not one set path of support and love. There are many and they are all interesting. And, equally valid. Aw crap now I have to find some Fenris fanfiction. Recs? XD

Aimo made me cry tears of sheer utter happy person today FOMG.

[aldien]

Sounds like you have it worked out Fall Deere. Keep us updated and post a link to your story!

I personally hate Sebastian's romance. I have at least two friends who adore him and they go off and write fanfiction about how they wished his romanced had panned out. Personally, I can't get past the strange eyes and fake tan look. But I have no love for anything Chantry so there wasn't much hope I'd fall for him in the first place. However, I get what people see in him. He needs to take off the chastity belt!

Unless I want to just stay in Lothering forever and keep clicking on the Templar with Fenris's voice... but of course, that would be creepy, so I don't do that... much

Muwahahaha. I know for a fact two people on this thread have done that! Though *sheepish* I tend to click on Ser Bryant. He was hot before I knew who voiced him so shush!

*swoops down and spanks aldy*

Swooping is bad, Ren. Didn't you know?

Can't you shoot her down when she intends to go with Zev? I thought Hawke could pull a jealousy act there. I think your misinterpreting Isabela's intentions here, or at least I interpret it differently. I assume the way she handles sex has become a habit for her, and when her old lover shows up, she falls back into that habit, for a moment not considering what it's like for Hawke. She's only been in a disfunctional marriage, so she is not sure how to handle a relationship. It's up to Hawke to make his/her boundaries known, and I believe that Isabela will do her best to respect them then.

Ummmm..... if I was with someone regardless of their past and they said they were going to go off and have sex with someone because it is just habit, I'd dump them on the spot. It's not like Isabela asks Hawke is he/she wants to participate. I believe it is Zev who does that. Even he has the decency to ask so Hawke doesn't feel left out. Point is... would you really have that discussion in front of everyone? A dysfunctional marriage is not a pass to do whatever you want. It sounds more like making excuses for Isabela instead of saying she is an intelligent woman capable of empathy or at least taking Hawke off to the side and talking about it before putting Hawke on the spot. It's a completely selfish act. 

Okay...I am half picking on people and half serious here.... let's talk double standard. I look up at the previous comments and see people would kill Zev if he did what Isabela did to Hawke. Here's the weird thing. I understand except my feelings are in reverse. In Origins I could romance anyone as male or female, threesome, foursome and then somes and it did not bother me in the slightest. I had a male warden who was with Zev, Morrigan and I think managed to woo Leliana just at the end. But Hawke! I am so picky about who Hawke ends up with whether male or female and how Hawke is treated. I think it is about a persons first DA experience. Most of you played DAO first. I played DA2 first so I am more protective of Hawke. Weird....so very weird.

Let me know if it works Coldy! It used to drive me nuts when Alistair would appear as GW in DA2 and call my warden a friend!!!!!!!! So I downloaded that mod. Now she is the love of his life. Damn right!!!!!!!!

Modifié par aldien, 15 avril 2013 - 12:14 .

[okiness]

Faerunner wrote...

renjility wrote...

Fall Deere wrote...

Hmm... Maybe I'm strange but I never see Fenris any more unhappy when rivalmanced than when friendmanced... He's broody no matter what, right? XD Maybe it's just the fact that I just can't let him get away with calling all mages evil that blinds me to his feelings. -shrug- I'm never mean to him in my rivalries and usually choose sarcastic options... I just always support mages (not blood mages though).

I think an important thing that gives people the impression of Fenris being unhappy is how his QB in act 3 begins. When friended, he's relaxed and having conversation with Aveline and Varric, while in the rivalry version, he is pacing in front of the hearth and when Hawke enters he's all: "festis bei uno canavarum.":P He also reacts negatively to his two gifts when rivaled, so his anger does seem to surface more. I can understand that people don't really like that interpret it as Fenris being unhappy, although I believe he's not exactly happy throughout the game when friended either. After all in both scenarios he's struggling with Danarius and the brief return of his memories.

It's not just one scene or a few gift responses. When rivalmanced, Fenris tends to be angrier, harsher, more defensive and aggressive on the whole than friendmance. He also tends to fight and yell with Hawke more. The same question that would get a listeless or mildly annoyed response from friendmanced Fenris would get a snide or sarcastic response from rivalmanced Fenris. Hawke is supposed to be the closest person to him, yet he's always so angry and defensive with Hawke. Fenris is indeed at a stage in his life where "not shouting angry" is about the best he can feel most of the time; yet he seems to feel it way more in a friendmance than a rivalmance.

EDIT: In fact, after his night with Hawke, only in the friendmance does Fenris say, "I just wanted to be happy, for a little while," whereas in the rivalmance he says it was a mistake. If that's not proof that he was happy or pursuing happiness in one but not the other, I don't know what is.

That's how I see it.

That's a good point! He definitely feels more in love and happiness based in the friendmance. He may not always be happy but it's like he knows- I have someone there for me.

[Fall Deere]

Hmm... Y'all make good points about Fenris being "unhappy" or "angry" in a rivalmance...

Admittedly, I haven't watched youtube videos of it or played the game through his romance recently, so I may be employing my selective memory of events, but... Since when is true love easy? Is it not easier to yell or be bitter towards a person you feel something for when you don't want to? Fenris hates mages, for good reason, and so it is hard for him to admit to himself that he loves someone that either supports mages or is a mage. This struggle within him could cause him to be unhappy or angry, but that does not mean that he can't be happy in a rivalmance.

Whether rivaled or friended, Fenris is in full support of Hawke in the final battle and expresses his love. It is the journey from unhappy, bitter, hateful Fenris to a Fenris who accepts Hawke for who she is that makes the story compelling to me.

I definitely wouldn't say Fenris was particularly happy through most of the rivalmance, but in my mind, that's not a bad thing. I don't see my Hawke being very happy, either! The man she cares about hates mages and leaves her high and dry for three years (my Sarcastic Hawke just hides her anger, sadness. bitterness, etc with witty remarks). After he and Hawke resume their relationship (after Alone), though, I feel like the air is cleared and they can be happy. Happily ever after killing slavers! Yay!

Just my two cents. This is the way I see it in my head for my story, at least. This discussion has brought up a few points I hadn't thought of that I will now see if I can incorporate into my fanfic! =D

EDIT: By the way, I'm thinking about creating a Tumblr page for Hawke's diary instead of posting it on Fanfiction.net. I'll have a friend proof-read what I have so far and post it as soon as I can.

Modifié par Fall Deere, 15 avril 2013 - 02:52 .

[okiness]

Oh trust me when I say Fall Deere, I don't mean to belittle the romance at all! It's got it's own ideas. And definitely, your Hawke sounds like an interesting perspective into the rivalmance.

I JUST FINISHED THIS I CANT HELP BUT DO THIS

[MissRedZelda]

Out of the rival or friend mance with Fenris, I usually stick to the rivalmance. This is mainly due to the fact that I am a big Mage supporter, whether I am a Mage (9 times out of 10, I am) or I'm protecting Bethany. As you said, Fae, I'm not about to give up on the Mages plight just to keep him happy. But, he has to accept that not all Mages are evil (like Mage Hawke and Bethany). In a way, he is wrong in some of his beliefs.

All in all, it takes him ten years of going out of adventures with Hawke to learn all this. In a way, I see the rivalmance as a sort of antagonistic at first, but they eventually learn about each other and get over their differences kinda relationship. After they sleep together, Hawke waits three years for Fenris to come around. That's patience.

I suppose I can understand why people would shy away from the rivalmance due to the fears of it being counter-productive. I disagree to that notion. I can't stand the idea of giving up on the Mages plight just to keep him happy. It would mean I am basically lying to his face, and it does nothing to prove to him that not all Mages are evil. To me, the rival mance is about proving to him just that, and him eventually getting over his Mage prejudice and his past dealings with magic. It's character development.

As for my Hawke, of course she accepts him! Otherwise, she wouldn't have accepted his help, flirted shamelessly with him, or basically dragged him along to every mission!

[okiness]

I think the entire concept of arguing any 'canon' is more valid than any other is redundant. I love a good discussion, but the actual idea seems a little funny to me. In fact, I'll go so far as to encompass all the romance paths for Fenris. Male, Female, Mage, Rogue, Warrior, Friend, Rival- all of these are different for a reason. When we create our Hawke's they have different ideas and different beliefs- they are different molds of a complicated puzzle that is 'Hawke'.

Rivalmance isn't invalid or unloving, it's merely about two people who care for one another, are attracted to each other- and have very different opinions. I don't think this means they don't love and accept each other. I think it means that Hawke genuinely believes in what she believes, and loves Fenris *in spite* of their differences. A Hawke who friendmances Fenris loves him *because* of his beliefs along with other things. It does not mean one does not accept the other - it means that one overcame the difficulty of complex feelings and the other found solace and comfort in the form of someone who shares their opinions.

My Hawke is a True Neutral. I wrote her as a mage who has GENUINELY been hiding her powers, not just been a transparent apostate, and basically who hates the 'mage' part of herself. Still, she loved her father and she loves her sister- she truly understands the plights of both sides. Magic is a burden that cannot be undone for mages. Mages are a burden that cannot be undone for the world. Both Mages and those who fear them are right in their struggles, right in their fears.

So she will give mages chances. She sent Feynriel to the Circle believing he needed true guidance, and when it didn't work out she sent him to Tevinter in hopes of righting that mistake. She often disagrees with Anders' methods but still helped him save mages. She is genuinely neutral and trying to make a third path for everyone, which is why it's so fun to play her. Not only her family is destroyed, but her ideas are completely axed in the end and Anders ruins it all! Haha, oh Dehlian.

The fun of DA2 is the complexity of who you can play and your decisions. I *prefer* friendmance because it is a complete acceptance and love relationship while rivalmance is understanding and tolerance, and eventual acceptance. But hey, what fun is ONE route?

[aldien]

I'm going to make a strange point here. Almost all the missions that involve mages usually end badly because the mages have turned to blood magic or are insane. If you want to show Fenris that not all mages are evil then why would you take him on missions that involve evil mages? Even Orsino is corrupt. Kirkwall is not the place to find exemplary mages. To be honest, I think the Hawke family is a rarity (Papa Hawke is BAMF that's why . After playing the game I agreed with Fenris on many points. He gets proven right often while in Kirkwall so it is hard to rival someone that you agree with for the most part.

I always side with the mages when Bethany is in the circle. The rest of the time it is 50/50 depending on my Hawke.

Modifié par aldien, 15 avril 2013 - 03:41 .

[Fall Deere]

Okiness, I agree with what you said.

Who says Hawke can't accept Fenris for who he is? I never suggested that Fenris should do a complete 180 for Hawke. Why can't they meet in the middle?

Like Okiness said, each Hawke is "different" and so I believe their relationship with Fenris would be different. I'll admit to making a Hawke that is an absolute jerk to everyone and is meant to be a LOT like Danarius. That Hawke is in a rivalmance with Fenris and I'll be the first to say that relationship is far from Healthy. In my head, Fenris... tolerates (not sure if that's the right word) is because that's all he's known. I feel really badly for even starting that game... My poor Fenris...

I can't speak for other people's rivalmance, but in the story I have in my head (NOT the one mentioned in the above paragraph...), Hawke and Fenris eventually meet in the middle on the mage issue, and tend to agree with each other on every other issue (like slavery). How is that unhealthy? Is it better to let Fenris continually believe all mages are evil? Though, aldien makes a good point about Kirkwall being the worst place to find "good" mages. XD Maybe we should try to drag Fenris to Fereldan. There were a lot of good mages there.

Anyways, I could never side with the templars in the end and sleep at night. ;_; Sure, a lot of mages in Kirkwall are bad, but that doesn't mean there aren't innocent ones that would be killed. I remember in DAO, I said once something along the lines of "I'd rather spare ten maleficarum than kill an innocent." I sided with the templars once and it broke my heart. ;_;