55378 réponses à ce sujet

[ogtrplganggrl]

renjility wrote...

ogtrplganggrl wrote...

Hello everyone!

When DAII came out I was super excited to romance Anders. I loved him in Awakening and couldn't wait to finally get the chance to romance him. And I, like many, was stunned and saddened when emo!Anders was what we got... not to mention the blowing up the Chantry... Even still I continued to romance Anders in all my playthroughs. Occasionally I would sleep with Fenris but I never gave his romance a real chance.

Until last weekend. Now I'm in love!!!

Fenris is too wonderful for words, and his romance was incredibly well done. After trying him once I will not be romancing anyone else.

I'm a late in life Fenris fangirl but just wanted to say hi!

Welcome! Congratulations on discovering the loveliness that is Fenris. Did you friend- or rivalmance him? Are you going to try the other one? They're both pretty good, although aldy here is a softie and doesn't dare to poke Fenris occasionally.:innocent: Don't worry, he can handle it.


FendersFAN

I actually both friended and rivalmanced him. I love both but I prefer rivalmance!

[okiness]

Oh God don't tell me about Danarius esque relationships. I loathe Danarius to every fiber of my being and cannot comprehend why anyone would want to torture Fenris and make him subservient to the man who quite heavily implied in his letter to Hawke if you sell out Fenris that he ERASED FENRIS' MEMORIES THE FIRST TIME ON PURPOSE LIKE I JUST I CANT WHY WOULD ANYONES sobs

I like all of them I just want Fenris to be happy so I go friendmance sobs

[okiness]

Faerunner wrote...

okiness wrote...

Rivalmance isn't invalid or unloving, it's merely about two people who care for one another, are attracted to each other- and have very different opinions. I don't think this means they don't love and accept each other. I think it means that Hawke genuinely believes in what she believes, and loves Fenris *in spite* of their differences. A Hawke who friendmances Fenris loves him *because* of his beliefs along with other things. It does not mean one does not accept the other - it means that one overcame the difficulty of complex feelings and the other found solace and comfort in the form of someone who shares their opinions.

It's possible for people to care for and be attracted to each other without necessarily being right for each other.

Also, there's a difference between casual opinions and core values. I'm all right with couples who disagree on many (or even most) casual opinions because people aren't going to agree on everything; but I think it's essential for couples to share core values in order to keep relationships stable and healthy. I've both known and seen relationships were people think it's all right not to agree on the big stuff in the beginning, but over time it wears away at them and destroys their relationship from the inside out.

The reason I don't approve of rivalmances is because Rival Hawkes are shown to differ and sabotage issues that their partners believe very strongly. At his core, Anders believes mages should be free. At her core, Merrill believes in helping her people and that the mirror will make it happen. At his core, Fenris thinks slavery is abhorrent and (at this time) believes mages will enslave others if given the chance. It seems fine rile them by rounding up mages in front of Anders, sabotaging the repair of the mirror for Merrill, or telling Fenris to get over his deep scars and distrust of mages; but I don't think it's emotionally healthy. (Isabela takes everything in stride though, so I don't necessarily count her.)

Plus, as I've said, we see that Rival Fenris is more restless, deffensive, aggressive, sardonic, and riled up on the whole than his Friendmance counterpart. We see that he's not as content, doesn't feel as supported, doesn't feel as happy. Hawke seems to make Fenris even more discontent after talking to him than before. If spouses bring out negative emotional responses in each other, then I don't think they should be together. Plain and simple.

Your argument is compelling. For Fenris at least, the difference is clear. I can't play rivalmance because of this.

[Hazegurl]

Faerunner wrote...

okiness wrote...

Rivalmance isn't invalid or unloving, it's merely about two people who care for one another, are attracted to each other- and have very different opinions. I don't think this means they don't love and accept each other. I think it means that Hawke genuinely believes in what she believes, and loves Fenris *in spite* of their differences. A Hawke who friendmances Fenris loves him *because* of his beliefs along with other things. It does not mean one does not accept the other - it means that one overcame the difficulty of complex feelings and the other found solace and comfort in the form of someone who shares their opinions.

It's possible for people to care for and be attracted to each other without necessarily being right for each other.

Also, there's a difference between casual opinions and core values. I'm all right with couples who disagree on many (or even most) casual opinions because people aren't going to agree on everything; but I think it's essential for couples to share core values in order to keep relationships stable and healthy. I've both known and seen relationships were people think it's all right not to agree on the big stuff in the beginning, but over time it wears away at them and destroys their relationship from the inside out.

The reason I don't approve of rivalmances is because Rival Hawkes are shown to differ and sabotage issues that their partners believe very strongly. At his core, Anders believes mages should be free. At her core, Merrill believes in helping her people and that the mirror will make it happen. At his core, Fenris thinks slavery is abhorrent and (at this time) believes mages will enslave others if given the chance. It seems fine rile them by rounding up mages in front of Anders, sabotaging the repair of the mirror for Merrill, or telling Fenris to get over his deep scars and distrust of mages; but I don't think it's emotionally healthy. (Isabela takes everything in stride though, so I don't necessarily count her.)

Plus, as I've said, we see that Rival Fenris is more restless, deffensive, aggressive, sardonic, and riled up on the whole than his Friendmance counterpart. We see that he's not as content, doesn't feel as supported, doesn't feel as happy. Hawke seems to make Fenris even more discontent after talking to him than before. If spouses bring out negative emotional responses in each other, then I don't think they should be together. Plain and simple.

I see your point but I don't see rivalmance like that. I don't believe people have to share core values to be in love or to have a happy relationship. Sometimes it can be the most unhealthy relationship to have.

Sure Merrill believes in the mirror, but she is also not eating because of it. Would Merrill be on good terms with a Hawke who indulged her desires to talk to demons to repair her mirror? Sure, but I don't find it a very healthy relationship. Sometimes doing what you feel is best for someone is showing more love than someone who gives in even when their behavior is unhealthy. Giving in to Anders is also unhealthy, helping him sneak into the chantry because you love him and want him to love you and like you isn't healthy considering that you can tell he's not doing it for anything good. Fenris on the other hand is different. Hating mages and mistrusting them isn't unhealthy but hating every single mage he comes across is not healthy.  Turning a blind eye to innocent mages who suffer under the Templars isn't healthy. I don't think rivalmance is about telling him to just get over his hate for mages or to get over slavery but simply challenging his opinion and letting him know that all mages are not the devil and that eventually he has to let his past go, it's just not as gentle as friendmance. Friendmance also helps him through his past but you pretty much have to cosign his beliefs in keeping all mages locked away and confirm his mistrust and fear.

Fenris is more restless during a rivalmance because that is how some people are when they are questioning everything they know and believe. He is falling in love with someone who he sees as giving him trouble because it goes against something he probably thought he would never do, love someone who sees things differently. If your Hawke is a mage then it must really be something he thought he would never do. There is no need for it in a friendmance because he is with someone who sees things the same way he does and probably someone he always thought he could see himself with, there is no questioning, no challenging of opinions or beliefs. He can relax and be calm about the relationship, it doesn't mean it's completely healthy or the best. Also Fenris snaps regardless of the type of romance you are having with him, it's just that with a rivalmance Hawke snaps back, you still get those calm and tender moments from him as well.

[coldwetn0se]

Personally, I RP my character (and the subsequent relationships) as it is suited for the character I am currently working on. Whether Friend or Rival path. I do find it interesting how some players see the Friend path though. Many (not all) of my Hawkes, that Friendmanced Fenris, did not agree with his stance on mages. To a few of those Hawkes, they believed that some individual mages were corrupt, dangerous, and even potentially evil (not much different than how ANY person can potentially be...good, bad). To those, they would take them down, and might not even bat an eyelash (others were sickened that they felt "forced" to do so, but there it is...). But they still believed in helping mages, and believed their general treatment a travesty. However, they still friended Fenris.

Admittedly, the system can be "gamed" at a certain point. What I mean is, since I often have him maxed at 100% Friend by the middle or two thirds of the way through Act 2, my Hawke is able to say and do as he/she pleases, with Fenris around. This may not be a perfect system, but I chose to embrace it. One, it allows me to continue playing my Hawkes as I have been, but now with Fenris' nearly constantly at my PC's side. Second, Fenris will still argue, or make contrary statements to my PC, when it comes to mages. This works just fine to me. It does show he still has a mind of his own, and my Hawke, a mind of theirs. I am then able to fill in the blanks (the "in-between", and the aftermath of the events in Kirkwall) with my own headcanon, as to how they manage as a couple. I have had some Friendmances fall apart, and some last till death do them part.

As for the rights, wrongs, and whatnots of relationships, at 43 yrs of age I have seen all kinds of relationships. Some that last, some that don't. I have been with the same man for nearly 26 years, and I am unsure how I can categorize my own marriage. *shrug* There may be a few universal truths regarding relationships, but there are still those that defy them. So, to each his/her own. Whatever works for you in life - or role playing - do as you see fit.

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 16 avril 2013 - 04:18 .

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

I'm going to make a strange point here. Almost all the missions that involve mages usually end badly because the mages have turned to blood magic or are insane. If you want to show Fenris that not all mages are evil then why would you take him on missions that involve evil mages? Even Orsino is corrupt. Kirkwall is not the place to find exemplary mages. To be honest, I think the Hawke family is a rarity (Papa Hawke is BAMF that's why . After playing the game I agreed with Fenris on many points. He gets proven right often while in Kirkwall so it is hard to rival someone that you agree with for the most part.

I always side with the mages when Bethany is in the circle. The rest of the time it is 50/50 depending on my Hawke.

Feynriel wasn't corrupt! :happy: And Hawke doesn't know that at the time he/she takes Fenris on those missions. LOL, I imagine it must be frustrating for a Hawke who tries to prove Fenris wrong in his beliefs:

Hawke: "okay, today we will save a group of helpless mages. Fenris will see the templars are wrong in this!"
Crazy blood mage: "Kill them!" *slits wrists*
Fenris: "It's always the same."
Hawke: *sighs*

 

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...

I'm going to make a strange point here. Almost all the missions that involve mages usually end badly because the mages have turned to blood magic or are insane. If you want to show Fenris that not all mages are evil then why would you take him on missions that involve evil mages? Even Orsino is corrupt. Kirkwall is not the place to find exemplary mages. To be honest, I think the Hawke family is a rarity (Papa Hawke is BAMF that's why . After playing the game I agreed with Fenris on many points. He gets proven right often while in Kirkwall so it is hard to rival someone that you agree with for the most part.

I always side with the mages when Bethany is in the circle. The rest of the time it is 50/50 depending on my Hawke.

Feynriel wasn't corrupt! :happy: And Hawke doesn't know that at the time he/she takes Fenris on those missions. LOL, I imagine it must be frustrating for a Hawke who tries to prove Fenris wrong in his beliefs:

Hawke: "okay, today we will save a group of helpless mages. Fenris will see the templars are wrong in this!"
Crazy blood mage: "Kill them!" *slits wrists*
Fenris: "It's always the same."
Hawke: *sighs*

 

LOL! It is no longer Sod's Law. It is now Hawke's Law That was cute Ren.

I agree, that maybe it would best for Fenris to go see Fereldan's Circle, preferably when Uldred isn't around. I liked that Circle alot, even Gregoir. He seemed like a decent enough templar and I think he really did care about the First Enchanter, even though they argue all of the time. They got rivalmance going on. You just know it 

Yeah, but Feynriel had some serious issues, to the point that my Hawke felt he could easily be potentially dangerous to himself and everyone else. Sometimes I send him to the Circle, sometimes the Dalish, but when I do his Fade quest I usually have him master his talent. See, I'm with Coldy on this one. It depends on my Hawke for the most part. No, I don't rivalmance Fenris, but my Hawke does venehemntly disagree with him at times and I still acheive friendship. Although... I am rivalmancing him this pt for the second time ever.

This is my opinion about some of the romances...

I feel that rivalmancing Merrill is the best thing for Merrill. I can safely say that after two pt's with her. Her mirror obsession is a cry for help. Just listen to her when she comes to see Hawke on rivalry right before they get it on.

Anders is a nutcase either way. I couldn't finish rivalry because it broke my heart. No one wants to see a mentally ill person end up like that. I just don't romance Anders as a rule. Who wants to do a romance that isn't fun?

Fenris... hmmmm well no one has mentioned Hawke's values. The player decides what those are, but let's say for arguments sake you are a mage. Is choosing to be with Fenris a betrayal of your sister and father? Malcolm spent his whole life protecting his baby mages from people who hated and feared magic. Regardless, of what you do with Hawke, don't you think hooking up with a mage-hating man might be a conflict for Hawke? It's not just Fenris who isquestioning beliefs. I can only imagine what a mage Hawke must think the first time they come into a nest of blood mages. I try to keep that in mind as I make decisions.

In conclusion....

Fenris rivalmance = hot sex

Fenris Friendmance = wine, roses and a great afterglow.

Modifié par aldien, 16 avril 2013 - 01:14 .

[Fall Deere]

renjility wrote...

Feynriel wasn't corrupt! :happy: And Hawke doesn't know that at the time he/she takes Fenris on those missions. LOL, I imagine it must be frustrating for a Hawke who tries to prove Fenris wrong in his beliefs:

Hawke: "okay, today we will save a group of helpless mages. Fenris will see the templars are wrong in this!"
Crazy blood mage: "Kill them!" *slits wrists*
Fenris: "It's always the same."
Hawke: *sighs*

 

ROFL!!!! That's almost exactly what I have pictured. XD

aldien wrote...

Fenris... hmmmm well no one has mentioned Hawke's values. The player decides what those are, but let's say for arguments sake you are a mage. Is choosing to be with Fenris a betrayal of your sister and father? Malcolm spent his whole life protecting his baby mages from people who hated and feared magic. Regardless, of what you do with Hawke, don't you think hooking up with a mage-hating man might be a conflict for Hawke? It's not just Fenris who isquestioning beliefs. I can only imagine what a mage Hawke must think the first time they come into a nest of blood mages. I try to keep that in mind as I make decisions.

That's a very good point. I tried to make that point, but apperently I failed. XD You worded it better than I could have.

Fenris isn't the only one having his beliefs challenged in a rivalmance. Hawke, depending on how you RP, would have a stuggle as well. In my story, my Hawke grew up believing that mages were good for the most part, and that blood mages were either a myth or rare incidents. I imagine she was exposed to very few mages of any sort in Lothering. Coming to Kirkwall was a huge eye opener for her and hearing Fenris's tale... Well, it challenged some of her core beliefs. In the end of my story, Fenris and Hawke come to an agreement. Not all mages are angels, but not all of them are demons either.... and Anders is dead meat if they ever see him again. Obviously, each player RPs differently, but that's the story that's been stuck in my head since falling in love with Fenris.


Since Anders' romance has been mentioned again... To me, there's no point in romancing him unless I'm playing an extremest mage just like him. Rivalmance doesn't make him not blow up the Chantry, unlike Merrill's rivalry where I believe she does turn away from her dangerous mirror, so it's useless... He can't change. Anders is just such a depressing character.

[GeminiParadox]

That's an interesting point about Merrill. I did one Friendmance with her because I felt bad that she was so alone and no one accepted her. But it may be true that one can rivalmance Merrill while still being kind to her.

I prefer to play Hawke as a mage, and I've tried to rationalize why my moderate (does not approve of dealing with demons and knows some Templars are good people) mage Hawke would fall in love with Fenris. What do you think? How have you rationalized a mage Hawke's love for Fenris? I actually grimaced during A Bitter Pill when Fenris was hatefully ranting about mages. I imagined that Hawke must have felt pretty bad during that...

[Flemmy]

ogtrplganggrl wrote...

renjility wrote...

ogtrplganggrl wrote...

Hello everyone!

When DAII came out I was super excited to romance Anders. I loved him in Awakening and couldn't wait to finally get the chance to romance him. And I, like many, was stunned and saddened when emo!Anders was what we got... not to mention the blowing up the Chantry... Even still I continued to romance Anders in all my playthroughs. Occasionally I would sleep with Fenris but I never gave his romance a real chance.

Until last weekend. Now I'm in love!!!

Fenris is too wonderful for words, and his romance was incredibly well done. After trying him once I will not be romancing anyone else.

I'm a late in life Fenris fangirl but just wanted to say hi!

Welcome! Congratulations on discovering the loveliness that is Fenris. Did you friend- or rivalmance him? Are you going to try the other one? They're both pretty good, although aldy here is a softie and doesn't dare to poke Fenris occasionally.:innocent: Don't worry, he can handle it.


FendersFAN

I actually both friended and rivalmanced him. I love both but I prefer rivalmance!

Pretty much the same for me. But when giving gift to him I prefer friendly romance, otherwise  I like rival since I prefer playing a mage in da2.

[Flemmy]

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...

I'm going to make a strange point here. Almost all the missions that involve mages usually end badly because the mages have turned to blood magic or are insane. If you want to show Fenris that not all mages are evil then why would you take him on missions that involve evil mages? Even Orsino is corrupt. Kirkwall is not the place to find exemplary mages. To be honest, I think the Hawke family is a rarity (Papa Hawke is BAMF that's why . After playing the game I agreed with Fenris on many points. He gets proven right often while in Kirkwall so it is hard to rival someone that you agree with for the most part.

I always side with the mages when Bethany is in the circle. The rest of the time it is 50/50 depending on my Hawke.

Feynriel wasn't corrupt! :happy: And Hawke doesn't know that at the time he/she takes Fenris on those missions. LOL, I imagine it must be frustrating for a Hawke who tries to prove Fenris wrong in his beliefs:

Hawke: "okay, today we will save a group of helpless mages. Fenris will see the templars are wrong in this!"
Crazy blood mage: "Kill them!" *slits wrists*
Fenris: "It's always the same."
Hawke: *sighs*

 

Totally

[Flemmy]

ipsenix.tumblr.com/post/43142072121/sleep-well-little-bird-by-destructorcat

Here a cute art if I can post it, hopfully.
Not mine just wanted to share.

Modifié par Flemmy, 16 avril 2013 - 07:42 .

[aldien]

Coldy, Ren, anyone... I'm drunk. WHy doesn't my Hawke look like this and why are all the windows in Kirkwall wine bottle shaped??? I bet the Bioware team was drunk while making the game That would explain Fenris. LOL does Garrett belong in a cowboy movie or is it just me? I see him in Deadwood right now.



Anywho... Well when I roleplay Hawke or any character for that matter, I really feel it. When my Hawke loved Merrill I felt it. He wasn't trying to be an ass or anything like Marethari (did I just spell that right while drunk?) he honestly cared for her well being. Sometimes people do not know what is good for them and sometimes it takes a person who loves us to know best. Not always, but there are those times when people can't see past their own egos. Merrill needs help imo. I think she has been too cut off because of her role as the first's apprentice. Anyway, that's how I see it. It is interesting to me that many people consider rival romancing a character as equivalent to being a ******. Personally, I think you can try and be considerate to your LI and still end up in a rival romance because you can't please everyone. With Fenris, it is not my preferred option, but I do understand how it happens, especially if you want everyone in Kirkwall to know you love those hippy mages

Sorry Fall Deere. I am slow to figure out what people mean. Just yell at me next time I say the same thing as you. Ren does.

Thanks Flemmy for the pic!

Modifié par aldien, 17 avril 2013 - 12:54 .

[coldwetn0se]

@aldy - *pets aldien's head, and gives her oatmeal cookies and a large glass of water...good when someone has tipped the bottle a bit much....LOL!*

I see what you are saying aldy. I may not have been able to romance Merrill yet, but it is my very thought process (minus the "romantic love" bit), when I rival her. I do it with kindness and charm....generally.

As for Fenris, I just have a preference (Friendmance), but will follow what works for the character I am RPing. @Aldy, you are about to do a rivalmance (or you are in the middle of one...can't remember), and once I finish my work on the me3 MOD, I think I will do another rivalmance with Fenris.....I have Ulee waiting in the wings (she only just made it Kirkwall when I had to turn my focus back to ME for the MOD work), and she could be a VERY good choice for a Rivalmance with Fenris. So be it! That is what I shall do.....in 1-2 months...LOL! XD

[Hazegurl]

Faerunner wrote...
Have you ever actually been in a long-term relationship like that? I have. And I've seen plenty like them too. They seem fine in the beginning, in the long run they wear away and destroy both people involved.

Yes, I have no desire to change him and he has no desire to change me. We get along just fine. However, our differences aren't as extereme as the characters in game.  Maybe we're pretty laid back overall despite our differences. I have seen long term relationships fall due to differences in opinions and values but usually it is because each side have a need to be the one who is right. I'm not saying they are all like that but some are.

It's one thing to tell her you're worried or encourage her to do other things as well as work on the mirror, and to actively try to make her stop altogether. Which is what the mirror-involved versions of rivalmanced Hawke tries to do. She's a grown woman who can make her own decisions, and trying to tell her what to do like she's an idiot or a child who can't make her own decisions is

If your lover came home with a stash of drugs and you see they are falling apart and not even eating, working, or sleeping because of it would you say "Go ahead and use it cause who am I to stop you." or would you try to seek help for them? Mind you I am all for people doing what makes them happy and there is a limit to trying to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. If your lover wants to ruin their life with drugs eventually you have to let go instead of falling with them. But that does not mean you shouldn't at least try. Accepting your lover's/friend's self destructive behavior is not something I would consider being a good friend or lover.

Which is why when I played my jerk Hawke I gave Merril her tool for her demon mirror, I didn't care if she got possessed cause my jerk Hawke wouldn't have hesitated to kill her. 

I'm not saying Friendmance is unhealthy I am just pointing out that just like rivalmance it has it's good and bad sides as well. Two crackheads can be very happy together, that does not mean their relationship is healthy.

Gathering ingredients for and blowing up the Chantry is one quest chain at the end of the game. You have to act antagonistic toward companions and/or their ideals over a good portion of the game to get to rivalry status rather than friendship. Being kind to mages over-all nets friendship with Anders whereas being oppressive and templar-supportive over-all nets rivalry. If you're constantly supporting the institutionalized imprisonment of mages in front of and while being romantically involved with a mage who is viscerally enraged by the it, then what kind of person is Hawke? What kind of relationship is that? It's like a segregation-enforcing officer dating an African-American; how long can that last?

Not really, You can get rival points just for making choices the characters do not like. I've had a rivalmance with Fenris and I was nice to him during all of my interactions with him. But because I did not do what he wanted me to do it was enough to rack up the rival points. Don't go on a murder spree on slavers and chose dipolmatic solutions to avoid blood shed? Fenris gives you rivalry points. Free a mage who is obviously no harm to anyone? Fenris gives you rivalry points. You can be nice to Anders and get friendship points but if you don't want to free blood mages, rivalry points! The man gives you rival points and proclaim you are using him if you don't want to move him into your home after one night in the sack.  In many cases rivalmance is all about the characters passing judgement on Hawke for not doing or saying what they want him/her to do or say. You do not have to be extereme to get those points up. It's just that players do that for the first act of the game to get a character where they want them to be so they can then make whatever choice they want later on without affecting the relationship. I've done that.

As for the last part. There are White racist who are married to African Americans and vice versa. Stranger things have happened.

I'm not saying friendship means indulging their every desire all the time, it means supporting and sharing their views and goals overall. Rivalry seems to mean contradicting, undermining and sabotaging them aggressively and/or often enough that it's clear the characters don't have enough in common on big, real-life issues to create a stable, healthy relationship in their big, real world.

I think that is great and one of the good aspects of the Friendmance but I don't share your views that Friendmance is the ultimate way to love the characters in game while Rivalmance is apparently horrible. If you love Friendmance that is great, I happen to love both equally as, IMO, I can see the good and bad sides of both relationships. Heck I can even see the flaws in some of the writing for them. How on earth can Fenris truly change as a person when his lover is constantly showing him in both friend and rival romances that there is something to fear?

Friendmance-Yes Fenris you are right, mages are bad and lets kill all slavers. My support helps you change for the better and get over your past.

Rivalmance-Yes, let's allow murdering blood mages to roam free and let's be kind to slavers. Thank you for respecting me and getting over your past.

However, I do not see Rivalmance as aggressively sabotaging your love interest. If Merrill or Fenris truly have an issue with rival Hawke they are free to leave. Anders still uses Hawke whether you are his friend or not. Aggressively sabotaging Fenris would be to stall on helping him after the ambush, in which case he leaves your group.  You can also sell him back to his master. But a rival Hawke does not have to do those things. 

I think hating every single mage is the same as hating and mistrusting mages. You're saying "no because yes."

No it isn't. A blood mage is still a mage. Fenris is well within his rights to mistrust them. A mage who summons demons is still a mage. But hating people just for being mages is him not letting go of his past. It's still him harboring hatred and mistrust over a name and not the deeds of the actual person. I will admit that Fenris does say that weak mages are the issue not all mages which makes him very reasonable but his belief that the system shouldn't at least change to protect the weak because they are mages is when he gets unreasonable.

Put the bolded together and you basically said "no because yes."

Yet the one thing Friendmancers gush about is how much Fenris has changed during the relationship. So yeah both are about him needing to let go of his past. Even Fenris wants to as he asks the same questions to a rival Hawke as he does a friend one, which is what should he do with his life, starting over, etc. Why is the change wonderful during a friendmance yet forcing him during a rivalmance? The only difference between the two is that Friendmance is calmer and Rivalmance is more volatile but the results are the same. Fenris always makes his own decisions.

And you know this for a fact?

Well let's see. You think I am challenging your opinion(which I am not) and you have chosen to respond in a seemingly argumentive way. This is usually how people respond when they think they are being challenged in some way. Fenris's behavior is the same. Give him a book and he's accusing you of looking down on him, he refuses a sword gift cause he interpert's Hawke's actions differently than the Friend Hawke. Rival Hawke is nice to him and he rivals him simply because they disagree. Yeah I'll say he is pretty darn restless because he feels challenged. Regardless this is how I choose to see the relationship. I never once said you had to see it the same way. We all interpert the story and romances however it pleases us to. You have your opinions and I simply have mine.

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

Coldy, Ren, anyone... I'm drunk. WHy doesn't my Hawke look like this and why are all the windows in Kirkwall wine bottle shaped??? I bet the Bioware team was drunk while making the game That would explain Fenris. 

*snip*

Because graphics. DA2's aren't very pretty, imo. So no sexy Hawke for you. Sorry. LOL, wine bottle shaped windows. Well, Kirkwall was built by Tevinters, and I bet the magisters like wine...



On the rivalmance thing I agree completely with Hazegurl. I don't believe that relationship is as destructive as some people think. Disagreeing with some of Fenris' beliefs is not the same as invalidating him. Being able to disagree is a part of freedom becoming your own person. Rivalry teaches Fenris that you can disagree on things and still respect and trust each other, and even care for each other in the case of romance. I think that having someone to rely on is more important here, and a rivaled Hawke will stand by Fenris' side against Hadriana and even Danarius, just as a friend Hawke. 

As Hazegurl already said, both friend and rival Hawke can preach to Fenris that he needs to let go of his past and move on. That's really not the same as "get over it", but more that he should no longer let his past completely rule over him and prevent him from building a new life. As long as he is stuck in the past, he is not truly happy, whether he is friended or not.


A special pic for aldy:


ekocentric

[okiness]

The dragon age team responded to one of my pictures and it gave me a fun theme for dragon age week. TEAM HAPPY FENRIS WEEK

and



Also I'd like to add- Merrill's rivalmance is also my favorite. While Fenris and Anders have VALID ideas behind their attitudes, mages ARE abused, mages DO enslave others in tevinter, Merrill's hopes are just vain attempts to find something that's gone.

[Ryzaki]

Hazegurl I see the rival Fenris romance the same way. It's respectful challenging. Not browbeating. And yeah I prefer it over friendship porcupine Fenris is the best Fenris

[aldien]

*Eats cookies* Sweet things are great for a hangover. Thank you Coldy.

Coldy said: I see what you are saying aldy. I may not have been able to romance Merrill yet, but it is my very thought process (minus the "romantic love" bit), when I rival her. I do it with kindness and charm....generally.

Maker did I write that? I have no romantic love for Merrill. She still gets on my nerves. My Hawke however is a sarcastic softy and he loves her babbling, painted toenails and the fact she wants a griffon named Feathers. The rest, he feels, she needs help to overcome.

Coldy said: . @Aldy, you are about to do a rivalmance (or you are in the middle of one...can't remember), and once I finish my work on the me3 MOD, I think I will do another rivalmance with Fenris.....I have Ulee waiting in the wings (she only just made it Kirkwall when I had to turn my focus back to ME for the MOD work), and she could be a VERY good choice for a Rivalmance with Fenris. So be it! That is what I shall do.....in 1-2 months...LOL! XD

I haven't started yet. Writing and procrastinating. You should consider doing a PDH rivalmance. 1-2 months o_O!!!!!! Bad Coldy neglecting Fen Fen like that.

Ren said: Because graphics. DA2's aren't very pretty, imo. So no sexy Hawke for you. Sorry. LOL, wine bottle shaped windows. Well, Kirkwall was built by Tevinters, and I bet the magisters like wine...

You are secretly funny aren't you? I'm just finding this out! Damn it Ren! I need sexy Hawke now! And agree, the graphics aren't pretty and the lighting is atrocious at times. It explains it all though. Kirkwall was created by a bunch of drunken magisters. Looks like it too

I know Eko! Rofl I also know where the title to that picture came from...  I think... Need to ask. Or is all of this a coincidence?

Lovely picture Okiness I love your theme!

I have a question...

Do you think Fenris ever takes his armor off? And why doesn't he have a zipper? I am sure he doesn't want to get caught with his pants down. Also, how the hell does Hawke get his armor on? Does someone do the ties at the back for him? And does anyone else think the big belt is a tragic accident waiting to happen? I need to know! And... is he upset that one arm is bare? Who designed that!

Modifié par aldien, 17 avril 2013 - 05:51 .

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

Ren said: Because graphics. DA2's aren't very pretty, imo. So no sexy Hawke for you. Sorry. LOL, wine bottle shaped windows. Well, Kirkwall was built by Tevinters, and I bet the magisters like wine...

You are secretly funny aren't you? I'm just finding this out!

Secretly? And here I thought I was openly funny!:lol:

Damn it Ren! I need sexy Hawke now! And agree, the graphics aren't pretty and the lighting is atrocious at times. It explains it all though. Kirkwall was created by a bunch of drunken magisters. Looks like it too

Sorry, only sexy Hawke in your dreams. Keep staring at that picture, that's all you're going to get. Maybe sexy Hawke is not allowed to exist in game because Fenris is supposed to be the most sexy of all.

I know Eko! Rofl I also know where the title to that picture came from...  I think... Need to ask. Or is all of this a coincidence?

You lost me. Coincidence? The title? That I posted this picture? That I said it was for you? *confused*

I have a question...

Do you think Fenris ever takes his armor off?

Haha, my story Hawke actually figured that out. Fenris doesn't sleep in his armor, because that would ruin his feathers. Or the featherlike things on his armor.

And why doesn't he have a zipper? I am sure he doesn't want to get caught with his pants down.

The DA-verse has no zippers. That would make undressing too easy. Lots of fumbling required before the steamy sex scenes. Maybe that's why we got a fade to black?

Also, how the hell does Hawke get his armor on? Does someone do the ties at the back for him?

Bodahn and Sandal can tie him up.

And does anyone else think the big belt is a tragic accident waiting to happen? I need to know! And... is he upset that one arm is bare? Who designed that!

You already answered that question earlier. Drunken magister.

@ okiness: oh, that's awesome that the DA team saw one of your pictures! Congrats! And lovely art, as always.


I believe someone asked for fanfiction recommendations earlier, and I wanted to mention this fic anyway: Felix Culpa. I'm currently reading this story. I think three more chapters will be uploaded and then it's finished. It's about a Hawke who handed Fenris over to Danarius, but comes to regret her decision and thus she goes to Tevinter to take him away from there. I think this is an interesting and pretty unique story perspective, and the author does a good job of making the Hawke and her motivations and reasoning believable and even - to a degree - likeable, despite the terrible thing that she's done. Clearly this is not a story for you if you want happy Fenris fluff, but it is a good fanfiction. Some chapters can be a bit lenghty, so depending on your patience and time you might skim over a few parts, but it's well-written, so I recommend it. This is not a story from me, just to be clear. I'm not shamelessly advertising myself here. This time.:innocent:

Modifié par renjility, 17 avril 2013 - 07:18 .

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...

Ren said: Because graphics. DA2's aren't very pretty, imo. So no sexy Hawke for you. Sorry. LOL, wine bottle shaped windows. Well, Kirkwall was built by Tevinters, and I bet the magisters like wine...

You are secretly funny aren't you? I'm just finding this out!

Secretly? And here I thought I was openly funny!:lol:

Damn it Ren! I need sexy Hawke now! And agree, the graphics aren't pretty and the lighting is atrocious at times. It explains it all though. Kirkwall was created by a bunch of drunken magisters. Looks like it too

Sorry, only sexy Hawke in your dreams. Keep staring at that picture, that's all you're going to get. Maybe sexy Hawke is not allowed to exist in game because Fenris is supposed to be the most sexy of all.

I know Eko! Rofl I also know where the title to that picture came from...  I think... Need to ask. Or is all of this a coincidence?

You lost me. Coincidence? The title? That I posted this picture? That I said it was for you? *confused*

I have a question...

Do you think Fenris ever takes his armor off?

Haha, my story Hawke actually figured that out. Fenris doesn't sleep in his armor, because that would ruin his feathers. Or the featherlike things on his armor.

And why doesn't he have a zipper? I am sure he doesn't want to get caught with his pants down.

The DA-verse has no zippers. That would make undressing too easy. Lots of fumbling required before the steamy sex scenes. Maybe that's why we got a fade to black?

Also, how the hell does Hawke get his armor on? Does someone do the ties at the back for him?

Bodahn and Sandal can tie him up.

And does anyone else think the big belt is a tragic accident waiting to happen? I need to know! And... is he upset that one arm is bare? Who designed that!

You already answered that question earlier. Drunken magister.

@ okiness: oh, that's awesome that the DA team saw one of your pictures! Congrats! And lovely art, as always.


I believe someone asked for fanfiction recommendations earlier, and I wanted to mention this fic anyway: Felix Culpa. I'm currently reading this story. I think three more chapters will be uploaded and then it's finished. It's about a Hawke who handed Fenris over to Danarius, but comes to regret her decision and thus she goes to Tevinter to take him away from there. I think this is an interesting and pretty unique story perspective, and the author does a good job of making the Hawke and her motivations and reasoning believable and even - to a degree - likeable, despite the terrible thing that she's done. Clearly this is not a story for you if you want happy Fenris fluff, but it is a good fanfiction. Some chapters can be a bit lenghty, so depending on your patience and time you might skim over a few parts, but it's well-written, so I recommend it. This is not a story from me, just to be clear. I'm not shamelessly advertising myself here. This time.:innocent:

LOL You are openly funny. I secretly didn't notice until now

Do you think it is possible to transform pixels into solid matter via a 3D printer?

Good point about Fenris. He is the most sexy of all thanks to the fact Garrett doesn't look like his picture. You ever notice the three points on default Garrett's beard? Triangulated beards do nothing for me [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

Picture.... Lord Broodyship from my story.

Are those feathers actually feathers or are they metal spikes? Varric hypothesizes that Fenris is in a bad mood because he keeps poking himself in the eye with those spikes. Gotta love Varric. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Ren said: The DA-verse has no zippers. That would make undressing too easy. Lots of fumbling required before the steamy sex scenes. Maybe that's why we got a fade to black?

We get fade to black so we don't hear the swearing between Hawke and Fenris while they are trying to undo the straps. Nothing says unsexy like two people poking each other to death with their armor.


Bodahn and Sandal can tie him up.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I volunteer! Too many dirty images..................

My fanfic recommendations:

Why Elves Eat Apples

101 Ways to Tie Up a Champion

Malcolm in the Middle

How a Margurita Made a City..... by: Magister Bob

Mabaris are for Life

I'll shut up now.... :innocent:

Modifié par aldien, 17 avril 2013 - 08:29 .

[evil_blond_goth]

I should imagen it's possibly been asked before on here, but IF Fenris and Hawke where to be in another game, be it a few side quests with a new ain charater, cut scene or 'codex' /written insight etc
What would you like to them to be i.e cut scene/side quests, what would you like to have happen to Hawke and Fenris if you could have teh option of chosing thier fate some more.

Myself personaly, I'd liek there to be more of a balance in the relationship, I saw Fenris just coming to term with teh fact he did not have to be subserviant and that he could spek his mind I also played it that my fem mage Hawk was learning that she was not always in the right, so a slight role reversal Fenris taking a more dominat role; and Hawke being less so.

I'd like to see them happy if it's at all possible, maybe the relationship moving onto and even deeper level of trust and love etc. I really would love to see the broody elf be more contented and at east with what happned in his past.

I might have missed it in game and I appologise if I have, but perhaps building more of a relationship with his sister.

There are lots of other scence/scenarios I have lost of fun imagening but thats nto really game material even for an game rated 18, also having just begun playin DA Origins I feel most cheated that in DA 2 the love scenes where non exsistant in comparision, DA2 piulled the old kiss, balck out, both sat in bed looking worn out trick.

[Hazegurl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl I see the rival Fenris romance the same way. It's respectful challenging. Not browbeating. And yeah I prefer it over friendship porcupine Fenris is the best Fenris

Oh yeah, I love listening to him curse and one of my favorite exchanges is when Hawke tells Fenris if he ever stops whining and Fenris pauses for a few seconds then says "Well I have now."