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[okiness]

I had a long discussion with my friend last night and I do believe the friendmance is my preference for one simple reason, Fenris has lacked his entire life someone who understood him and felt compassionate for him. In fact he more often than not gets the **** end of the stick, even his own sister threw his gift back into his face. Friendmance gives him what he's never had: someone who loves him and understands him.

On that note TEAM HAPPY FENRIS


Thanks Renjility! It always makes me feel special to hear comments on my art, haha! And Team Happy Fenris is fun to do as a theme.

[aldien]

He looks tired in that picture Okiness. Is the thought of fatherhood keeping him awake at night? Lovely pictures as always.

[Ryzaki]

Hazegurl wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl I see the rival Fenris romance the same way. It's respectful challenging. Not browbeating. And yeah I prefer it over friendship porcupine Fenris is the best Fenris

Oh yeah, I love listening to him curse and one of my favorite exchanges is when Hawke tells Fenris if he ever stops whining and Fenris pauses for a few seconds then says "Well I have now."

That scene cracked me up.

Also my poor mage Hawke with the "Hey! Don't forget who you're talking to!" when he's talking bad about mages.

His last questioning beliefs "this hate...is like a poison and I just continue to swallow it." (or something I'm bad a paraphrasing) <3

[okiness]

aldien wrote...

He looks tired in that picture Okiness. Is the thought of fatherhood keeping him awake at night? Lovely pictures as always.

Both that and the running! But despite being tired, I imagine it's probably the happiest he's ever been.

I now wait eagerly for my world of thedas book. I got the limited edition and I'm rocking back and forth in anticipation

[Hazegurl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hazegurl I see the rival Fenris romance the same way. It's respectful challenging. Not browbeating. And yeah I prefer it over friendship porcupine Fenris is the best Fenris

Oh yeah, I love listening to him curse and one of my favorite exchanges is when Hawke tells Fenris if he ever stops whining and Fenris pauses for a few seconds then says "Well I have now."

That scene cracked me up.

Also my poor mage Hawke with the "Hey! Don't forget who you're talking to!" when he's talking bad about mages.

His last questioning beliefs "this hate...is like a poison and I just continue to swallow it." (or something I'm bad a paraphrasing) <3

I love how Fenris doesn't care if Hawke is a mage, he'll still talk crap about them

I think I know what scene you are talking about. I also can't remember it word for word but I do like how he acknowledges his own part in keeping the hate going.

[Dutchess]

Haha, well, he also has the decency to mention that he considers Hawke to be a strong mage, so it's not all bad.

[aldien]

This rivalmance is feeling like a Lady Gaga song... o_O I realize after starting this that if Garrett had been an LI (let's face it, sarcastic Hawke would have been an awesome LI) I'd be afraid to rival him. The power of the beard would be too much. But with Fenris... it doesn't feel that much better or hotter or anything really. In the end you still get the same love scenes so that kind of breaks the whole thing apart. Honestly, I don't feel like there is enough distance from some of the things he says on friendship to warrant all the fuss. Maybe it is just down to what I am selecting. I can't be aggro all the time. It's not fun enough.

Coldy i didn't think it was possible but female Hawke is sounding more crazier than usual right now.

Wait...  I just realized how Bioware could have made the rivalmance perfect. My Hawke needs a goofy mage hat. What self respecting person is going to take crap from someone standing there in a two foot tall hat with tassells? That is the ultimate insult. What a missed opportunity

Anders just proved my point:



by: mygoodrabbit (I think...off of tumblr)

Modifié par aldien, 19 avril 2013 - 01:17 .

[okiness]

BAHAHAHA, Rivalmance is suddenly bestmance.
Hawke: You're dumb, mages rule
Fenris: *trying really hard not to laugh*

and, of course

TEAM HAPPY FENRIS WEEK

[coldwetn0se]

@aldy - See!?!?!?!!! I swear; you try and mix up Fem!Hawke's dialogue choices, and she sound completely wacky! This doesn't happen (or at least not very often) with male!Hawke. What gives? LOLOL Now I have a hard time playing fem!Hawke with a straight face. XD

Okay, hypothetical question time:

If it came to the point where Fenris started having problems with his lyrium tats (as it has been hinted, that this might happen), and it turns out their are two options to remedy this issue. The first is, the lyrium could be removed, he would still have the scars, but the actual lyrium would be gone. This of course, would make it so he didn't light up like a Christmas tree, and he couldn't phase. The upside, probably less chance for other complications related to the lyrium, to manifest.

The second option is a non-painful (and non-memory altering) proceedure, that stabilizes and bolsters the lyrium tats. This takes away any immediate threat of the lyrium destabilizing or making him sick. It also strengthens his lyrium based talents, making them more powerful. Downside, the destabilization may rear it's ugly head some time in the future, and he will either have to be re-bolstered (more than once as well, should he live a sufficient number of years) or risk his health/life deteriorating.

So, when Fenris comes to your Hawke, to ask for advice, which way do they steer him?

[Dutchess]

Ha, I'm writing a whole story on that subject. Although there aren't any painless, happy solutions. xD Well, since the first option seems to offer the greatest chance of no further complications and guarantees that Fenris will live without more problems with the markings, my Hawke would definitely advocate the removal of the markings. That Fenris survives is the most important thing to him, so that trumps everything else.

I think Fenris will go for option 1 by himself as well... He does express his hatred and disgust for the markings several times in the game, although he also admit he probably would have been captured without the abilities they granted him. When Danarius is gone, I believe he would not hesitate to have them finally removed. Before Danarius' death he would probably be mroe reluctant.

[aldien]

coldwetn0se wrote...

@aldy - See!?!?!?!!! I swear; you try and mix up Fem!Hawke's dialogue choices, and she sound completely wacky! This doesn't happen (or at least not very often) with male!Hawke. What gives? LOLOL Now I have a hard time playing fem!Hawke with a straight face. XD

Okay, hypothetical question time:

If it came to the point where Fenris started having problems with his lyrium tats (as it has been hinted, that this might happen), and it turns out their are two options to remedy this issue. The first is, the lyrium could be removed, he would still have the scars, but the actual lyrium would be gone. This of course, would make it so he didn't light up like a Christmas tree, and he couldn't phase. The upside, probably less chance for other complications related to the lyrium, to manifest.

The second option is a non-painful (and non-memory altering) proceedure, that stabilizes and bolsters the lyrium tats. This takes away any immediate threat of the lyrium destabilizing or making him sick. It also strengthens his lyrium based talents, making them more powerful. Downside, the destabilization may rear it's ugly head some time in the future, and he will either have to be re-bolstered (more than once as well, should he live a sufficient number of years) or risk his health/life deteriorating.

So, when Fenris comes to your Hawke, to ask for advice, which way do they steer him?

You ain't kidding! I selected aggro and then nice and went back and forth for awhile. Absolutely hilarious and disturbing. o_O I feel like writing some of it down. It's just... somebody didn't think this through. Male Hawke sounds laid back and soft spoken for the most part. When he is angry it's not a million miles away from sounding like his other responses... though there are a few times when it is bonkers. I think that there is too much emotional range in FHawke's voice. The voice actor did a  very good job with those emotions, but. if you start mixing up your responses then it feels like you are watching a love story and horror movie at the same time.

Fen Fen and his markings....

With your first hypothetical question does he lose his memory if he opts to have it removed?

You see that gives me mixed emotions. Fenris would become an ordinairy elf. Do you think he would be too proud to do away with his talent? I also wonder if he would feel like he wouldn't be able to protect or help Hawke adequately without them... thoughts?


Originally, like Ren, this was the central theme of what I was writing. The book and staff would be used to maintain his markings, but I switched in favor of something else because I strongly believe that when Fenris's markings are maintained he loses his memory. So he would have a choice to forget his life with Hawke or die. In my story he was going to go off to the Deep Roads and end his life like a Grey Warden with one last glorious battle. They had a child on the way and he didn't want to spend the rest of his life forgetting the moments with his family, specifically forgetting what it was like to watch his child grow up. My readers would shove a pitchfork through my heart if I did that, so the markings are no longer the central theme (Papa Hawke all the way! j/k... kind of...). Makes me still want to write it! LOL!

Modifié par aldien, 20 avril 2013 - 01:02 .

[Hazegurl]

aldien wrote...

This rivalmance is feeling like a Lady Gaga song... o_O I realize after starting this that if Garrett had been an LI (let's face it, sarcastic Hawke would have been an awesome LI) I'd be afraid to rival him. The power of the beard would be too much. But with Fenris... it doesn't feel that much better or hotter or anything really. In the end you still get the same love scenes so that kind of breaks the whole thing apart. Honestly, I don't feel like there is enough distance from some of the things he says on friendship to warrant all the fuss. Maybe it is just down to what I am selecting. I can't be aggro all the time. It's not fun enough.

I've rivalmanced Fenris with my sarcastic Hawke before. Making Fenris laugh and hate you at the same time is awesome. But yeah you pretty much get the same love scenes out of him and all those tender kissy moments. <3

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...


Fen Fen and his markings....

With your first hypothetical question does he lose his memory if he opts to have it removed?

You see that gives me mixed emotions. Fenris would become an ordinairy elf. Do you think he would be too proud to do away with his talent? I also wonder if he would feel like he wouldn't be able to protect or help Hawke adequately without them... thoughts?

I don't think that Fenris derives his pride from his markings. He appears to hate them and blames them for a lot of his misery ("I never wanted these filthy markings, Danarius"). To him it's magic's/Tevinter's/Danarius' unerasable stain on him. As long as he's on the run, he would probably keep them because they greatly increase his chances of remaining free, but with Danarius gone, I think he would believe it safe enough to trust in his "normal" abilities as a swordsman. He's hardly helpless without the markings. 

Originally, like Ren, this was the central theme of what I was writing. The book and staff would be used to maintain his markings, but I switched in favor of something else because I strongly believe that when Fenris's markings are maintained he loses his memory. So he would have a choice to forget his life with Hawke or die. In my story he was going to go off to the Deep Roads and end his life like a Grey Warden with one last glorious battle. They had a child on the way and he didn't want to spend the rest of his life forgetting the moments with his family, specifically forgetting what it was like to watch his child grow up. My readers would shove a pitchfork through my heart if I did that, so the markings are no longer the central theme (Papa Hawke all the way! j/k... kind of...). Makes me still want to write it! LOL!

That does sound interesting, and very sad. If it's in your head, you have to write it! Do you mean Fenris will continuously forget when the markings are maintained again? You make it sound like that, but why would that be? I can follow the reasoning for a second memory wipe, but what would change that his memory no longer works at all?

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...


Fen Fen and his markings....

With your first hypothetical question does he lose his memory if he opts to have it removed?

You see that gives me mixed emotions. Fenris would become an ordinairy elf. Do you think he would be too proud to do away with his talent? I also wonder if he would feel like he wouldn't be able to protect or help Hawke adequately without them... thoughts?

I don't think that Fenris derives his pride from his markings. He appears to hate them and blames them for a lot of his misery ("I never wanted these filthy markings, Danarius"). To him it's magic's/Tevinter's/Danarius' unerasable stain on him. As long as he's on the run, he would probably keep them because they greatly increase his chances of remaining free, but with Danarius gone, I think he would believe it safe enough to trust in his "normal" abilities as a swordsman. He's hardly helpless without the markings. 

Originally, like Ren, this was the central theme of what I was writing. The book and staff would be used to maintain his markings, but I switched in favor of something else because I strongly believe that when Fenris's markings are maintained he loses his memory. So he would have a choice to forget his life with Hawke or die. In my story he was going to go off to the Deep Roads and end his life like a Grey Warden with one last glorious battle. They had a child on the way and he didn't want to spend the rest of his life forgetting the moments with his family, specifically forgetting what it was like to watch his child grow up. My readers would shove a pitchfork through my heart if I did that, so the markings are no longer the central theme (Papa Hawke all the way! j/k... kind of...). Makes me still want to write it! LOL!

That does sound interesting, and very sad. If it's in your head, you have to write it! Do you mean Fenris will continuously forget when the markings are maintained again? You make it sound like that, but why would that be? I can follow the reasoning for a second memory wipe, but what would change that his memory no longer works at all?

Let's see if I can explain where I am coming from here.... You little monster!

I don't think Fenris derives his pride from his markings. He hates the markings but he also realizes without them he would still be a slave and he takes pride in the fact that he did get away from Danarius. Yes, he would still be able to fight like any swordsman, but I do think he likes to be different from other elves. Also, I wonder if he would worry Hawke would not be as confident in him. His lyrium talent is an intregal part to his warrior skill. I suppose he could learn templar abilities or reaver abilities but to get rid of his lyrium talent, I think would be a blow to Fenris's confidence. Yes, he never wanted the markings, but the fact is he has them and uses them to get an edge over his opponents. We're talking about getting rid of a talent he has been working to master for years. I think it would be humbling experience, hence why I wonder if he would be too proud to do away with the talent.

Things in my head should not be made public   I think, and it is just a hypothetical, that perhaps each time the process of mainting his markings happens he loses some if not the majority of his memories. I suspect the actual process of mainting them is not pleasant. Of course, none of us know what it involves but there is something that occurs to strengthen them or keep them from breaking down. Perhaps the process causes memory loss or perhaps the pain does. Danarius did something to wipe his memory twice. Once when they were created and if you give him back, Danarius does it again.

So... the idea in my head was that after so many years those markings must be maintained. Obviously Fenris can go at least ten years without it being necessary. Maybe longer. But then he loses those years once the markings are maintained. I had to decide if he would rather die than keep forgetting. Chose death. But it's all hypothetical nonsense.

[coldwetn0se]

Well, well.....such thoughts. Such ideas.

Aldy you cruel lady! I think if those set of circumstances were presented, I would still have Fenris live, and just imagine it no differently than that silly Adam Sandler/Drew Barrymoore movie, "50 First Dates".  LOL!

But regarding the original hypothetical; I would choose as Ren does.  In the end, it would be his decision, but I would press for the removal of the lyrium. My Hawkes are often quite confident in themselves and Fenris' ability regardless of the lyrium tattoo. I mean he really is as skilled (if not moreso) as Aveline and Carver (or Warrior Hawke...ok, he may not be better than Warrior Hawke, but I would say just about as good ). Pride often does (or perhaps should) go out the window when your life affects those beyond yourself.

Of course, this is the nice thing about hypotheticals in story material; you can imagine all kinds of possibilities.

[evil_blond_goth]

So he would have a choice to forget his life with Hawke or die.

Pardon me if I have missed something huge here, but I personaly don't see why he would die if his marking where not maintained. I know Lyrium can have adverse affect on many, especially if it get into the blood but I can't imagen that Danarius would have one gone to all that effort if the risk of Fenris eventually dieing was too great it'd be a huge waste of his time and two again for the same reasons I shoud imagen he would have taken measures to prevent such a thing from potentially happening.

I know Fenris was convinced that Danarius would skin him, having been told taht by one of the slavers that was huntinh him, I personaly always felt that was someone just basicly being a snidy git knowing the elf was going to kill him once he'd got the infor out of him. If it was me I'd sure as hell be telling Fenris all sorts of horrors true or not just to freak him out, he's goign to kill me what would I have to loose.

[evil_blond_goth]

As for Fenris learning the skills of the Templars I could see him doing so.

Modifié par evil_blond_goth, 21 avril 2013 - 10:25 .

[coldwetn0se]

evil_blond_goth wrote...

So he would have a choice to forget his life with Hawke or die.

Pardon me if I have missed something huge here, but I personaly don't see why he would die if his marking where not maintained. I know Lyrium can have adverse affect on many, especially if it get into the blood but I can't imagen that Danarius would have one gone to all that effort if the risk of Fenris eventually dieing was too great it'd be a huge waste of his time and two again for the same reasons I shoud imagen he would have taken measures to prevent such a thing from potentially happening.

I know Fenris was convinced that Danarius would skin him, having been told taht by one of the slavers that was huntinh him, I personaly always felt that was someone just basicly being a snidy git knowing the elf was going to kill him once he'd got the infor out of him. If it was me I'd sure as hell be telling Fenris all sorts of horrors true or not just to freak him out, he's goign to kill me what would I have to loose.

This hypothetical that I posed (you may want to read that first), is based on comments made by David Gaider regarding the potential for Fenris' markings to become "unstable" in time, and could be detrimental to his health.  I am sorry I am not able to provide the link to DG's original quote. Maybe Ren or aldy have it. The hypothetical is just that....just silly musings about different possibilities for Fenris' future, based on those comments from his writer. Nothing more.


**EDIT**
To add link.

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 21 avril 2013 - 11:39 .

[okiness]

Thought I'd post some ELVEN LORE from World of Thedas so I could make commentary.

"

Only sixty-five of our group made it to Halamshiral. Some gave up. Some sickened, especially the little ones. Bandits stalked us. My mother forgive me, I had to steal food. A child fought me for extra scraps of bread. A few days later, I carried her for miles after her legs gave out. She died shivering in my arms.

I used to have a master, a mage. He fed me well, never beat me, even taught me how to read so I could do his accounts. But if he had a theory or a spell he wanted to test out, he’d get out his daggers, have the other servants tie me to a post, and carve furrows into my skin. I was so afraid. Every time, I was sure I would die. But at worst I’d collapse, get bandaged up, and lie in bed too weak to move for days. The other slaves visited me in secret to survey the damage. I’d heal just enough before he needed blood again.

That is why I traveled from Val Dorma to the Dales with nothing but rags on my back. That is why there were one hundred and five of us when we set out, all elven. That is why I feel to my knees and wept when we crossed through the gates of my new home, a village for my people.
"
- - Anonymous Account of the Long Walk, as told to Brother Pekor of Ferelden, circa -140 Ancient

Is the most distinct to me. It made me think of Fenris in particular, and his conversation with Merrill about having lived it. Thinking about his companion dialogue its especially succinct.

'What do you do when you stop running?'

Fenris does not have to care like Merrill does at all. He has lived it beyond her dreams. A people beyond oppressed, abused, and made to suffer- trying to find a sense of home and freedom? Fenris might be closer to his ancestors than Merrill ever will be, without trying.

[aldien]

Here is that link Coldy. It concerns what David Gaider had to say about Fenris's markings.

http://dragonage.wik...ia_to_a_Fangirl

In regard to the original hypothetical, I do go with removal of the markings. My Hawke would kill anyone who dared to hurt him, if his fighting skills were lessened by the removal. I always had this idea in my head that if the lyrium was removed his hair would back to its original color. Please tell me he wouldn't lose the biceps! o_O hehehehe

I agree with you Okiness. Merrill kind of reminds me of some of the university lecturers I had. They could tell how to do something according to textbook standards, but they did not have to apply that knowledge to actual real world problems on a daily basis. Merrill also reminds me of people who think they are entitled by birthright. She's the last of Elvhen blah blah blah... but does that mean she has any clue what it is to be a real elf? I'd say she has been sheltered and is out of touch with it all. When a whole race of people are living on the edge of survival, I don't think a mirror is going to help them much.

[evil_blond_goth]

Ta, I will have a look at the link.
I know you where thinking on it hypotheticaly.

I was just trying to wrap my head around how it could possibly come about, given it being a huge investment on Danarius' part, and one that he made quite clear he does not wish to loose.

Hypotetical is all good, I play on a VTM rpg/creative writting site and to say we bend WW's rules is and smidge of an undersatment, makes for ebtter creative writting/enjoyable chaarters to play.

[evil_blond_goth]

If I were to ever attempt DA fan fiction, I'd like to toy with Fenris joining the Templers before he ever met a mage Hawke on the run from the circle, probably been done before but it'd be for my own amusement. I know there is a thread discussing Elven Templers of lack of being more to do with racists’ humans than any official chantry rules not allowing elves to join.
As I like to turn the tables/life situations of characters around in some respects.

Even though in game Fenris is, understandably, extremely anti slavery, I can see a very dominate side to him and I often wonder if he had not been a slave and so not potentially developed and aversion/ dislike to it.....and if he had the influence and power Danarius had, not necessarily as a mage, just in the social political sense....would Fenris have taken slaves and if so what kind of master would he be etc. I could see him going for it as I said I can see a darker more controlling side to him even though, in game, he knows what it is to be on the receiving end of such a personality.
Remember he’s not had the negative experience of being a slave himself .

Heck how would the whole Elven nation treat the humans if it had always been their people who had come out victorious, again think of simply swapping the words humans and Elves around when thinking of the DA histories. Would they have behaved be the same, better or worse?! I see them as a proud and sometimes cold people so in my mind I could see them treating the human equally bad or worse.

I always felt that Hawke was far closer to Carters personality than Bethany’s as was the Warden at times, I’d like to make Hawke a just little less cocky and overtly self assured, what if Carter had been the eldest of the three or Bethany and Hawke had been one of the twins, how would she (or he depending) be different.

Yeah I am a woman who finds it hard to play as the opposite gender in games, even if it means my char....(whispers just in case bio ware din't like me reffering to the other side) getting treated like poop on a stick by Caesars Legion, ahh in game misogyny..... it’s a git, even if it fits with the story.  Acctually one of the what I like about DA in comparision to Es's or FO...not ever enemy is seeking to kill you in DA, at least not out right which makes for some amusing cut scenes.

So any personal thoughts on how Fenris would differ in the scenarios I have put forward, presuming you have not already discussed this at length.

Modifié par evil_blond_goth, 22 avril 2013 - 07:27 .

[evil_blond_goth]

'Favorite part: Gaider wrote the Fenris romance with a male Hawke in mind!'

lol I so don't sense/see Fenris as being gay, or at least to me he does not come across as such possibly cause my toung was on the floor at the time., maybe wishfull thinking lol honestly to me he seems straight. I like Zev as much as I do Fenris but to me M Hawke and Fenris just did not seem to fit well. To me it would felt like trying to get Alistair and a male warden together.

 Zevran obviously and Anders yes I can totaly see that too, even ....aheemm..... prepairs for a slap...... Sebeastian to a small extent, even though he's a devouted to the chantry I had to wonder on occasion if it was all a conveniant rouse....mwhahah!!

Modifié par evil_blond_goth, 22 avril 2013 - 07:47 .

[aldien]

It's my opinion, based on what I have read about Dragon Age lore that if the elves had won, they would have demanded humans stay out of their lands. The elves were scared because humans were mortal and they believed humans would cause them to lose their immortality. So when the elves started to shy away from Tevinter, the magisters attacked and sank Arlathan. The elves were so scared that even though they had great magic at their disposal they still ran from the humans. I don't know what the point in worrying about immortality is if you are going to be enslaved.

Oh Maker's breath. You just opened a can of worms! The number of times I have been told off for saying I don't see Fenris as gay is astronomical. One person will say he is bisexual and be very pushy about it, which is fine because every LI is bisexual in the game. Another person will almost come out and call you homophopic because Gaider said he had a male Hawke in mind when he wrote Fenris. Some people will respect your opinion and give their own. (Those are my favorite people). Some people will mention yaoi and others will have a go at you for saying he came across heterosexual in the game. If I had never read that article or come on this forum I would have believed him to be heterosexual because, until recently, I always played as FHawke. I had no idea MHawke could flirt with him.

Personal opinion is that Gaider should never have stated he had a male Hawke in mind. It only strengthens something you mentioned up there and I'm not going to get into it because I know my head will be ripped off momentarily. I prefer him with FHawke. I see Fenris as heterosexual. Each to their own. If someone is going to have a go at me don't bother. I've heard it all before.

I think Seb would have been like Zev before he became a brother.

Modifié par aldien, 22 avril 2013 - 08:19 .

[evil_blond_goth]

They can have a go at me if they like, as you say each to thier own, shame on anyone if they assume my sexuality and so my views on teh matter

as I said before I found other charaters equally 'attractive' (yeah I know they are pretend but still a girl can dream) and out of all them, even if stated otherwise i.e Seb is was written as straight, I can see all; bar Fenris, Varric and Alistair, swining both ways. I would have like to romance Morrigan her as a fem warden, Merril was sweet but I always felt a sisterly love towards her.

what of the other scenarios, in a different life I could totaly see Fenris being a bit like Danarius if he had the oppotunity and power and had not been a slave. I should imagen i shall get chewed up and spat out for holding this opinion too. I say this purly as I have hung about in the BDSM community and I can see similar dominate personality bellow the taught submissiveness in game.