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[Catty2882]

Lurker here coming out of the shadows to bump this thread back to life!

I thought fellow Fenris appreciators may like some art I just finished:

...Hmm forgot how to post pictures here ... ah sorry, well, here's the link:

http://catty2882.dev...Hawke-399520417

Spread the Broodiness!! lol

[coldwetn0se]

@Catty2882 - here you go.


Fenris and Yolanda Hawke, by Catty2882 on dA

Yolanda is lovely, and adore the "piercing" eye on Fenris.

[Catty2882]

Thanks for doing the link for me!

Mmm it was hard to concentrate when I'd finished Fenris ... seriously, how did Hawke actually focus long enough to teach him anything?! lol

[Dutchess]

*storms in thread* Hi guys!

In a thread about the darkspawn redesign someone posted this link: http://mattrhodesart...ind-scenes.html

It's from one of Bioware's concept artists, and once you scroll past the Mass Effect stuff, he talks about DA2 and Fenris in particular. Highlight: what Fenris looks like underneath his armor.



Also, these were all previous concepts of Fenris. *shudders* I have to say I strongly prefer his final version.

Modifié par renjility, 14 septembre 2013 - 07:43 .

[coldwetn0se]

@Ren - *claps Ren on the back* Hey stranger! Nice finds on the concept art. And yes, I agree.....glad we ended up with, well.....what we ended up with. heh! Something I am noticing though; the most recent concept art for the mysterious Elf mage NPC/Companion, they have been showing for DA:I, seems to look very similar to these earlier versions of Fenris. Especially the one with the pole (minus the tattoos, of course). I have been a bit wary on the bald elf mage thing (yes, shallow me admits to wanting hair on him XD ), but I don't hate the middle design....for a new elf NPC or companion.

And btw, is the art with the giant blade....is it just me or is it supposed to look like he has the blade physically attached to him??

[Dutchess]

Haha, I'm not really a fan of the bald elf myself. He looks way too old, haha. Might also be the style of the concept art, though. It's not really a style that has my preference (not that I could draw any better, mind you). We'll see what we end up with this time, though of course nothing beats Fenris.

Now that you mention it, his hold on that sword does look rather impossible. But I don't think that was intentional... I surely hope not, at least. Having such a huge blade attached to your hand makes no sense. Gahh, that concept freaks me out. I'm so glad Fenris doesn't look like that, haha! I mean, why is he grey???

[dracuella]

coldwetn0se wrote...
And btw, is the art with the giant blade....is it just me or is it supposed to look like he has the blade physically attached to him??

I think it is his hand that isn't detailed enough, so it seems as if the blade itself is attached to the stump of the hand (to me it is the back of the hand and he's just grasping the blade which is so wide it is almost impossible to hold).

renjility wrote...
I mean, why is he grey???

In classic D&D and generally in oldschool role playing there were a lot of different types of elves. One of those were the dark elves (or Drow - Baldur's Gate's Drizzt Do'Urden, anyone?) which were described as dark grey or even black in skin tone. Matt Rhodes might have been inspired by these and if he had been told anything about Fenris' story thought it appropriate to let his appearances reflect this dark side. I for one really like it and think it would have appealed to me as much as his present design does.

[CuriousArtemis]

Trista Hawke wrote...

 I made a Fenris poll! 

Hmm, my choice isn't on there  I want to see Fenris if Hawke romanced him AND Hawke makes an appearance in the game. So I want to see Hawke and his/her LI. Otherwise, no cameos.

[coldwetn0se]

I chose sidequest (like Zev....even if he WAS bugged. lol!)

Truth, I am fine with not seeing him, but would hope for some little mention based on how things ended (i.e. off with Hawke as LI, in Starkhaven with Seb, trekking it on his own, ect....). I wouldn't mind a brief cameo as well, but something that feels a bit more substantial than just "I'm fenris, blah, blah, hawke...hai Varric. Bai." Plot/story relevant in some way. Alistair's appearance in DA2 felt like that a bit. Though, I kind of liked drunk Alistair in the Hanged Man. lol!

[Fall Deere]

I'd like him to have a cameo similar to Alistair's. I like how Alistair's appearance and dialogue depended 100% on the choices you made in DAO.

You know, drunk Alistair, king Alistair, and dead Alistair. Then if you had married him, he commented on it and so on. I'd like to see Fenris in different ways, depending on the choices Hawke made. Maybe he and Hawke could be running around, freeing slaves. Or Danarius could be there on business with his trust bodyguard. Or he could just be dead and have no cameo if that was the case.

Though it would be nice to have a cameo, I have a feeling I won't miss him too much if he doesn't... DAI is looking amazing! I'm sure there will be many distractions from my precious broody elf.

[dracuella]

I chose option 1 as well, a side quest just like Zev. Possibly where he tags along as a controllable character. But I must admit I feel like Fall Deere here, evenif I don't see him, I won't miss him. He belongs so firmly together with my Champion in my DA2 universe that he doesn't need to come back.

To be honest, this time around it feels as if DAI is a new chapter much mote intensely than it did when I heard about DA2. Because I didn't fully follow the buzz, I expected DA2 to be something like a continued story. But this time, I have watched everything about DAI from the get-go and I appreciate and anticipate the differences much more. I'm really looking forward to DAI because it's a new and exciting stand-alone Bioware DA game but NOT because it is the follower of DA2 - if that makes sense

[dracuella]

Trista Hawke wrote...

 I made a Fenris poll! 

Not to be confused with a Fenris POLE. 

(Plz don't slap me. Lol)

Poles are nice, too, you know. Not enough of them in DA methinks. Lamp posts, yes. Poles, not so much

[Dutchess]

dracuella wrote...

renjility wrote...
I mean, why is he grey???

In classic D&D and generally in oldschool role playing there were a lot of different types of elves. One of those were the dark elves (or Drow - Baldur's Gate's Drizzt Do'Urden, anyone?) which were described as dark grey or even black in skin tone. Matt Rhodes might have been inspired by these and if he had been told anything about Fenris' story thought it appropriate to let his appearances reflect this dark side. I for one really like it and think it would have appealed to me as much as his present design does.

I am aware of the existence of "dark elves" in other games/media, but so far nothing indicates that there are other kinds of elves in the DA universe. They're just one race. I think it would have been weird to introduce Fenris as a new species or something. The markings already make him stand out.

[dracuella]

renjility wrote...
I am aware of the existence of "dark elves" in other games/media, but so far nothing indicates that there are other kinds of elves in the DA universe. They're just one race. I think it would have been weird to introduce Fenris as a new species or something. The markings already make him stand out.

Perhaps this particular version of Fenris came up before the general elf design was set in stone? Matt Rhodes might have been part of the brainstorming regarding their appearance and so thought to try something different from the usual elves. Or possibly the darkening of his skin is supposed to be a side effect of the lyrium being embedded into his flesh. Another reason could be that Seheron elves were originally designed as being darker or part of a race that was just left out when the game came to life. It's happened many times before so any potential scrapping of elven diversity in DA isn't all that far fetched. 

I for one don't think it would have mattered if they made him dark. It was never his looks I was attracted to.

[Dahlia d'Arque]

Hi Everyone! Apologies for potentially derailing the topic here, but I seriously need your help!

I'm currently writing a Frankenstein'esque story for my Gothic Literature class, and I'm doing my take on the quest "All That Remains." However, I'm stubborn and refuse to take the easy way out by writing the story in FemHawke's POV. I have full intention of writing it from Fenris's POV. Here's what I need help with:

I write in the first-person POV, so I can get Fen's voice into my head without any issues whatsoever, but I just can't grasp his mindset, and I end up feeling too...detached (if that makes sense). I know this is fanfiction and all, but I'm the type of person that tries to stay as close to the canon story/lore as possible. I'll stray from it, if I need to, but I make sure to portray everyone/everything as accurately as I can. Anyways...

If I remember correctly, as it's been quite a long time since my last playthrough (which I'm currently working on fixing), Fen's mindset was something along the lines of all mages are evil, with the exception of those who know how to properly wield their abilities and/or are imprisoned in the Circle of Magi. Is that right, or am I completely wrong?

I know Fen will kind of warm up to a mage Hawke, if you play the dialogue options right, Yet, I'm not really sure past that, and I don't intend to write Hawke as a mage. Also, my basic thought for the story so far is that I'm only going to have Fenris and Hawke in it (and maybe some Varric. I haven't quite decided yet). I want Fenris to be protective of Hawke, though he's not going to be even remotely pleased with the choices she makes. (Sorry about being vague. I'm not sure if I can really talk about "All That Remains" openly, since it has massive spoilers in it for those who haven't played DAII yet. Just trying to play it safe and spoil as little as possible.)

If any of you guys could help me out, I'd really, really appreciate it! Thank you in advance. 

[Nilfalasiel]

Caedis Lupa wrote...

If I remember correctly, as it's been quite a long time since my last playthrough (which I'm currently working on fixing), Fen's mindset was something along the lines of all mages are evil, with the exception of those who know how to properly wield their abilities and/or are imprisoned in the Circle of Magi. Is that right, or am I completely wrong?

I know Fen will kind of warm up to a mage Hawke, if you play the dialogue options right, Yet, I'm not really sure past that,

Well, considering you can Friendmance Fenris with a mage Hawke quite easily, I'd say that's more than "kind of warming up"

Apart from a couple of dialogue differences, there's really not that much fuss made about Hawke being a mage anyway. At full Friendship, Fenris will end up trusting them as much as a non-mage Hawke (I'm guessing it's the same for Rivalry, but I've never tried Rivalling him). But yes, the idea is that Fenris sees a mage Hawke and Bethany as two of the VERY few exceptions to mages being evil/irresponsible/dangerous. There's even a banter with Anders to that effect.

[dracuella]

I think regarding "All that remains" from Fenris' point of view is a very difficult perspective. It is actually one of the few mage-involving quests in which he doesn't comment on mages. I think the severity and urgency of the quest is clear to him and takes precedence over his innate dislike of mages. Even after the thing is over, he doesn't say anything mage-related about it to anyone. The only thing that he does say (afaik) is in a comment to Anders:

Anders: By now, you must see what an injustice the templars are.
Fenris: Must I? I see templars trying to control what they have good reason to fear.
Anders: But they go too far.
Fenris: Talk to Hawke about his/her mother. Ask him/her who went "too far."
Anders: You can't hold all mages responsible for that!
Fenris: It doesn't take all mages to cause this. Only the weak ones.

Generally, he dislikes magic users. It isn't until he has come to know them personally that he is able to trust them and even then, he is very selective (Bethany and Hawke are fine, Anders and Merrill not so much). A great deal of this distrust comes from being a slave to a cruel magister in Tevinter, where he was abused physically and mentally and saw first-hand how Danarius slaughtered children for the sake of blod magic-fuelled power. If someone has only ever seen magic in its abusive context, I don't think they could not come to hate it to some extent.

I also think we shouldn't neglect the fact that his markings are lyrium/magical as part of his hating magic. They were something magical done to him by a magic user and despite giving him immense power, it was done without his consent. It ripped him of what little he had left, his memories of his past, effectively leaving him with nothing but fear, shame and abuse in a situation he couldn't free himself from. This is, I believe, if not the greatest, then in the top 3 of his reasons to loathe everything magical.

Generally, I think if you read through his dialogue here: http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Dialogue you might get a lot of pointers. It isn't all his comments throughout the game but it gives a very good idea of his views.

[Nilfalasiel]

dracuella wrote...

I also think we shouldn't neglect the fact that his markings are lyrium/magical as part of his hating magic. They were something magical done to him by a magic user and despite giving him immense power, it was done without his consent.

According to Varania, it was done with his consent: he willingly competed for them so that she and their mother could be freed from slavery.

[Dutchess]

Caedis Lupa wrote...

Hi Everyone! Apologies for potentially derailing the topic here, but I seriously need your help!

I'm currently writing a Frankenstein'esque story for my Gothic Literature class, and I'm doing my take on the quest "All That Remains." However, I'm stubborn and refuse to take the easy way out by writing the story in FemHawke's POV. I have full intention of writing it from Fenris's POV. Here's what I need help with:

I write in the first-person POV, so I can get Fen's voice into my head without any issues whatsoever, but I just can't grasp his mindset, and I end up feeling too...detached (if that makes sense). I know this is fanfiction and all, but I'm the type of person that tries to stay as close to the canon story/lore as possible. I'll stray from it, if I need to, but I make sure to portray everyone/everything as accurately as I can. Anyways...

If I remember correctly, as it's been quite a long time since my last playthrough (which I'm currently working on fixing), Fen's mindset was something along the lines of all mages are evil, with the exception of those who know how to properly wield their abilities and/or are imprisoned in the Circle of Magi. Is that right, or am I completely wrong?

I know Fen will kind of warm up to a mage Hawke, if you play the dialogue options right, Yet, I'm not really sure past that, and I don't intend to write Hawke as a mage. Also, my basic thought for the story so far is that I'm only going to have Fenris and Hawke in it (and maybe some Varric. I haven't quite decided yet). I want Fenris to be protective of Hawke, though he's not going to be even remotely pleased with the choices she makes. (Sorry about being vague. I'm not sure if I can really talk about "All That Remains" openly, since it has massive spoilers in it for those who haven't played DAII yet. Just trying to play it safe and spoil as little as possible.)

If any of you guys could help me out, I'd really, really appreciate it! Thank you in advance. 

Welcome.:happy: I'd be happy to help, though I don't know for sure what exactly it is that you would like to know. You want to know how Fenris would react to seeing zombie Leandra, and his general view on magic/mages? Spoilers are allowed here, so I wouldn't worry about that. If you want to be safe, you can always warn for spoilers before you go into detail.

First of all, I always argue that Fenris does not in fact hate mages or magic. He does not believe that all mages are evil. He does see magic as a very dangerous power, and that (pretty much) every mage can turn to forbidden powers when pressed enough. Power, survival, everyone has their price. Only exceptionally strong individuals (like Hawke, he'll say eventually, if Hawke is a mage) can be able to resist the temptation to turn to magic that is extremely dangerous and can harm others to get what they want/need.

Fenris has seen first-hand what can happen when mages are free to do as they wish and are not being supervised. Magisters do everything to stay in power and do not shy away from any means to control those who are beneath, mostly people without the powers of magic. Therefore he believes it would be a mistake to allow mages to be free. Even if most have good intentions, you always have individuals who are perfectly willing to use the power they have to oppress others and get what they want. After all, the magisters have no problems with squashing other mages under their heel as well as ordinary people. He realizes that the Circle system isn't exactly perfect, and can - to a certain degree - relate to mages who are being locked up, but he still sees it as a better solution than letting those mages be free, because then you would end up with another Tevinter Imperium. Magic should be feared and the templars are right to guard it so carefully.

As for Leandra, I'm pretty fond of Fenris' little line: "what has magic touched that it doesn't spoil?" He spits this out when he is really upset and frustrated and I don't think he would say it out loud when he is calmer and more in control of himself, but it does sound like something that can echo through his head during events like Leandra's death. It is also a nice way to summarize his views on magic when you think on it for a bit longer. Whatever magic touches, it will always have an influence that can't be erased. Mages, even the ones with good intentions, will always have to be vigil and strong to withstand the temptations and true scope their powers offer. Even when they don't succumb, magic has a very strong effect on their lives and pretty much defines how they should live, how careful they should be. When magic is used on others, this effect is even stronger and definitely more negative. After all, just like Leandra, Fenris has been touched by magic and it has ruled his life ever since. The markings ruin pretty much every chance of a normal life he could have and are the reason his master won't stop hunting him. And for Leandra, magic has taken her life and twisted it into something gruesome and nightmarish, just to suit the desires of madman. It's more proof of how magic should not be allowed to be used freely and instead should be watched carefully. 
If Hawke has been sympathetic towards mages, I think this will be also more proof for Fenris that Hawke is wrong to think that mages can be trusted with so much power. He won't rub it in her face and do a "told-you-so" dance, because he cares about Hawke (are you romancing him?) and feels sorry for her that she loses her family. Family, or the idea of having a family and belonging somewhere, is very important to Fenris, and I think that will (temporarily) overrule his feelings about magic. 


Sooo.... this ended up as a ridiculously long post, as usual (I'm sure the thread missed me, haha *ahem*), but I hope my ramblings can be of some use to you.:innocent: Remember that this is my interpretation and that others, and you, might have a different view on some matters.

[Dutchess]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

dracuella wrote...

I also think we shouldn't neglect the fact that his markings are lyrium/magical as part of his hating magic. They were something magical done to him by a magic user and despite giving him immense power, it was done without his consent.

According to Varania, it was done with his consent: he willingly competed for them so that she and their mother could be freed from slavery.

I'll warn for spoilers before responding to this, because Caedis Lupa mentioned not being that far with Fenris, and possibly has not finished the game. *SPOILERS*

Fenris did not consent to the ritual. Fenris' life started with receiving the markings. It was Leto who competed to free his family, but Gaider mentioned that Leto only knew of the boon, and not of the ritual. Presumably Leto was an idealistic boy who saw an opportunity to free his mother and sister from the bonds of slavery, without knowing what he was getting himself into. 

[Dahlia d'Arque]

Wow, thanks for the DA wikia link and all the extremely helpful information guys! Also, thanks for the welcome, renjility. Just as a note, I've actually completed DAII about seven times or so (I didn't start playing DA:O and DAII until this year, when I got them for my birthday. Sorry if I don't know terribly much about the lore. I'm trying my best, though!). I'm replaying DAII right now, just as a refresher for my story (Oh, Fenris...I never realized how much I've missed your awesomeness!). I've Friendmanced Fenris every time I've played, except for one time where I did a Mage BroHawke and the Isabela romance. I've never actually done a Rivalmance with Fenris. I feel too horrible at the thought that I might end up emotionally torturing him further.  Is the Rivalmance worth doing? If so, should I do it with a Mage, since he'll kind of hate me already anyways?

Okay, so, now that I can talk a little more freely, here's what I'm trying to go for. Potential SPOILERS here for anyone who hasn't completed the game.

I'm trying to figure out what Fenris's reaction should be on two different things. The first one is when Hawke approaches whatshisface (that guy with the funny name...how could I forget that name!? Man, it really has been a while since I last played) about the blood ritual. I'm thinking Fen would argue with her about it, she snaps at him because she's an emotional wreck at that moment and isn't thinking very clearly, and then he'd back down and just whisper something like, "We'll find her, and with luck, she'll be okay." I think he would try to be reassuring, even though he doesn't really understand what Hawke's going through. Would that fit his character? I somewhat remember the scene where Hawke's sitting on her bed, and Fen comes into the room. To me, he seemed a little...hesitant, confused maybe, as to what he should do to try and make Hawke feel better.

The second thing is, indeed, what his reaction should be upon seeing zombie Leandra. I was thinking that maybe it could spark some kind of memory at something Danarius did back when he was still a slave, or just outright anger that yet another mage did something like this, especially to someone like Leandra. Maybe a little bit of both?

I do plan to have Fenris and Hawke in a Friendmance...which will be interesting for me, since this is actually going to be my first time doing something romance-y. As for what my Hawke will be, she's going to be a Rogue, but shares more of the Templar point of view. The thing is, though, she actually doesn't hate magic. She finds it very useful. However, she's picking what she believes is going to be the winning side.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track with Fen so far? Thank you for all the help!

[Dutchess]

Okay, haha, in that case we'll spoiler away.I did a rivalmance with a mage Hawke and I really enjoyed it, so I think it's definitely worth trying. I don't think you should see it as torturing Fenris. You don't have to be an aggressive jerk to rival him, even though aggressive is the fastest way to reach rivalry with every companion. I liked to play sarcastic with Fenris, with occasionally a diplomatic response. You can play a Hawke who genuinely likes Fenris and cares about him, but doesn't shy away from challenging his ideas about mages and magic, because most of those ideas are the result of how Danarius treated him. You can do this with every class of course, but I liked doing it with a mage. You start of with at least 5 extra rivalry points (depending on your answer to Fenris' question what kind of mage you are) when you're a mage, and I like the irony of Fenris eventually falling in love with a mage Hawke he disagrees with.

When Hawke accepts Gascard Dupuis' offer of using blood magic to trace Leandra, both Fenris and Anders seem to let this slide, even though both of them strongly disapprove of blood magic. You only gain rivalry points from Sebastian in this instance. So, assuming this is intentional, I'd say that in this emergency case, Fenris understands that finding Hawke's mother is more important and worth the use of blood magic. He will probably be very wary of Gascard, though, and I can imagine him to urge Hawke to stay alert and not to trust him. Or he'll just stay alert enough for the both of them.

I agree with you that Fenris doesn't really know how to comfort and reassure Hawke. If he has already left after their night together, he might wonder if Hawke wants to see him at all in this situation. He has no experience with friends and family, so he has no clue what to say, which he immediately says when he enters Hawke's bedroom.

I think such a combination could work upon seeing Leandra. I believe he'll definitely be angry, though. And disgusted.

[d4eaming]

I personally prefer going the friendship route with him, especially with a mage. The main thing about rivalry that I hated was how Hawke says "we're not exactly friends, Fenris." That bugged me, because my Hawke did see him as a friend, he was just a bit pushy in his mage acceptance, but he still loved/desired being with Fenris. Beyond that, rival just really irks me in a way I can't put my finger on. Friendship is definitely my favorite.

[Dutchess]

d4eaming wrote...

I personally prefer going the friendship route with him, especially with a mage. The main thing about rivalry that I hated was how Hawke says "we're not exactly friends, Fenris." That bugged me, because my Hawke did see him as a friend, he was just a bit pushy in his mage acceptance, but he still loved/desired being with Fenris. Beyond that, rival just really irks me in a way I can't put my finger on. Friendship is definitely my favorite.

Yeah, that line is a bit unfortunate, but it can make sense in a romance setting. After Fenris leaves, it seems that they kinda drift apart and don't speak as often as they used to, because that night continues to stand between them and neither can truly move on. I imagine that a rival Hawke will be less agreeable about the situation and therefore doesn't see the three years of heartache and awkwardness as friendship.