Modifié par coldwetn0se, 17 janvier 2014 - 06:45 .
)!Modifié par renfrees, 03 février 2014 - 06:03 .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------renfrees wrote...
Hi, long time lurker and Fenris' fan here, I've finally decided to register after reading 1300+ pages on this thread (still in process
I'd like to share my thoughts on random Fenris' topics:
1. Fenris vs Anders romances.
To me, Anders uses Hawke from beginning to an end - starting with the Deep Roads maps, through safe place to hide from the templars, through blackmailing to get help with the potion, to inevitable Apocalypsis. He launches at Hawke and talks about love all the time, but I don't see a love here. All I see - is deliberate exploitation of romantic feelings to achieve his "greater goal". He even says, that there is no person in Thedas he wouldn't kill to free mages, and that includes Hawke.
On the contrary, Fenris doesn't ever say word "love", but he shows his devotion with his actions. And his actions speaks louder than 1000 "I love you" to me.
2. Friendmance vs Rivalmance.
Both are excellent, but I prefer friendmance big time. The reason is not only his reaction to the gifts, but also his descriptions of inner self in rivalmance:
"It's a sickness, this hate. This dark growth inside me that I can't ever get rid of"
"It's poison, yet I continue to swallow it."
So, imho rival-Hawke basically feeds Fenris poison over 10 years, no matter how hot and passionate this route is. In friendmance you help him to get rid of his hate, to find peace with himself. It might be not as raw and hot, but it's definitely way healthier for Fenris, and to me his own happiness is above my sexual desires.
3. Danarius' abuse.
I'm not sure if it was brought up before DG confirmed, that Fenris had been sexually abused by that worm, but if you choose negotiation option during "Alone", Danarius says:
"You weren't always this way, Fenris. Once upon a time you had affection for me, I remember it fondly."
That line has further cemented my suspicions, that Fenris was abused in all kind of ways possible, even before David has spoken about it.
4. Varania live or die.
Personally, I always let him kill her for 2 reasons. First - family is not just about blood relations, and secondly - sometimes ignorance is a bliss. It might be better for him in a long run to let her live, but I can't bring myself to stop him, knowing what she'll reveal.
5. Mages vs Templars.
I've started as a mage supporter (like almost anyone, I'd guess) and a mage, but over the course of the game I was thoroughly tested in my beliefs. In the end we have what, 2 "normal" mages - Hawke/Bethany and idiot DeLauncet? Chaos is never preferable to live in as a normal person, and that's what you do in the name of abstract freedom. Second Tevinter? I doubt even magisters are happy to live in that vicious circle of struggling for power.
So yeah, "freedom is a noble ideal" - you are always right, Fenris.
Modifié par Amirit, 21 février 2014 - 12:03 .
@___@ Hotcoldwetn0se wrote...
Holy moly! Nearly a month without any Fenris convo/love/art/screenies......
Of course, I don't have any thing really new to post. A topic could work, but I suspect I would be holding a "******-for-tat" with myself.
<whispers> *yay, fenris....*
;D
**EDIT**
TOP
Two of me favorites in one.....and silly to boot!
One of the best ingame shots i've managed to take (and right after Anders confronts Hawke about Fenris 
):
Do not see the picture above, but so happy the topic made it here! Hurray!!!
2. Friendmance vs Rivalmance.
Both are excellent, but I prefer friendmance big time. The reason is not only his reaction to the gifts, but also his descriptions of inner self in rivalmance:
"It's a sickness, this hate. This dark growth inside me that I can't ever get rid of"
"It's poison, yet I continue to swallow it."
So, imho rival-Hawke basically feeds Fenris poison over 10 years, no matter how hot and passionate this route is. In friendmance you help him to get rid of his hate, to find peace with himself. It might be not as raw and hot, but it's definitely way healthier for Fenris, and to me his own happiness is above my sexual desires.
4. Varania live or die.
Personally, I always let him kill her for 2 reasons. First - family is not just about blood relations, and secondly - sometimes ignorance is a bliss. It might be better for him in a long run to let her live, but I can't bring myself to stop him, knowing what she'll reveal.
Hi! I agree with mostly everything you've written but these two parts. I disagree that rival Hawke feeds Fenris poison. I think Fenris feeds it to himself. All you do in rival and friendship mances is either agree or disagree with his position. He may feel good having someone he loves/respect/admire side with him but ultimately it is up to him to find his own peace and change himself. If Fenris refuses to do that in rivalmance than that is his problem. I enjoy rivalling Fenris, especially with my goofy Hawke because he never takes Fenris's outburst too seriously, but he does have his own opinion on Mages, Templars, slavery, et al and he isn't going to transform into Fenris's puppet and grant his every desire just because he likes him. Who says rivalmance Hawke doesn't care about his happiness? My rival Hawkes do care and honestly, in some cases friendmancing can be just as bad and unhealthy as rivalmancing.
As for Varenia. I agree that family is more than about blood relations but I love the scene more when you stop him especially when Varric is in the party and it's after we handle his brother. I love that Varric tells him how killing her won't help him at all. He's right. Fenris needs to stop being ignorant of his past and everything else and I see the choice of letting her live as a way for him to work through getting over his anger and haterd of the past. IMO, I think he needed to hear that small tidbit of the past, he needed to hear that he wasn't the victim he always claimed to be. Granted he is still a victim and I agree with you that he was sexually abused. But it was a life he chose and I think he needed to know that.
Hi, long time lurker and Fenris' fan here, I've finally decided to register after reading 1300+ pages on this thread (still in process
I'd like to share my thoughts on random Fenris' topics:
1. Fenris vs Anders romances.
To me, Anders uses Hawke from beginning to an end - starting with the Deep Roads maps, through safe place to hide from the templars, through blackmailing to get help with the potion, to inevitable Apocalypsis. He launches at Hawke and talks about love all the time, but I don't see a love here. All I see - is deliberate exploitation of romantic feelings to achieve his "greater goal". He even says, that there is no person in Thedas he wouldn't kill to free mages, and that includes Hawke.
On the contrary, Fenris doesn't ever say word "love", but he shows his devotion with his actions. And his actions speaks louder than 1000 "I love you" to me.
2. Friendmance vs Rivalmance.
Both are excellent, but I prefer friendmance big time. The reason is not only his reaction to the gifts, but also his descriptions of inner self in rivalmance:
"It's a sickness, this hate. This dark growth inside me that I can't ever get rid of"
"It's poison, yet I continue to swallow it."
So, imho rival-Hawke basically feeds Fenris poison over 10 years, no matter how hot and passionate this route is. In friendmance you help him to get rid of his hate, to find peace with himself. It might be not as raw and hot, but it's definitely way healthier for Fenris, and to me his own happiness is above my sexual desires.
3. Danarius' abuse.
I'm not sure if it was brought up before DG confirmed, that Fenris had been sexually abused by that worm, but if you choose negotiation option during "Alone", Danarius says:
"You weren't always this way, Fenris. Once upon a time you had affection for me, I remember it fondly."
That line has further cemented my suspicions, that Fenris was abused in all kind of ways possible, even before David has spoken about it.
4. Varania live or die.
Personally, I always let him kill her for 2 reasons. First - family is not just about blood relations, and secondly - sometimes ignorance is a bliss. It might be better for him in a long run to let her live, but I can't bring myself to stop him, knowing what she'll reveal.
5. Mages vs Templars.
I've started as a mage supporter (like almost anyone, I'd guess) and a mage, but over the course of the game I was thoroughly tested in my beliefs. In the end we have what, 2 "normal" mages - Hawke/Bethany and idiot DeLauncet? Chaos is never preferable to live in as a normal person, and that's what you do in the name of abstract freedom. Second Tevinter? I doubt even magisters are happy to live in that vicious circle of struggling for power.
So yeah, "freedom is a noble ideal" - you are always right, Fenris.
I'm feeling very Fenris-y today so why not respond to this excellent post
1. I really, really disagree here; I think Anders is a very passionate person who wears his heart on his sleeve. I think he falls in love quickly, passionately, and violently, and that's what happens between him and Hawke (if you romance him). I have romanced Anders twice all the way through, and I never felt like he did not love Hawke. I think you can make the case for him using Hawke (although again I disagree here), but that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love him/her. Anders actually does his best to shield Hawke from what he intends to do, and once it's done, he fully expects to be killed. 
2. I, too, prefer the friendship route, and confess that I never made it all the way through the rivalmance. However, I think that is just personal taste. It's about the type of romance you prefer. I like fluffy and sweet romances. Also Fenris is my favorite character EVER EVER EVER, and I just like to see him being cherished and cuddled, so friendmance is for me.
3. Nothing to agree or disagree with here except that it was horrible, and shows just how very cruel life has been to Fenris
4. It depends on the Hawke I'm playing. For example, Nemanja Hawke, my first Hawke, was the rock of his family, and also a very kind and forgiving person. He begged Fenris not to kill her because he believed she would be/could be an important part of his life. He believes in redemption and the importance of family. Then you have Eirik Hawke ... distrustful of mages, more willing to let Fenris make his own decisions. He did let Fenris kill her.
5. Again, depends upon the Hawke. See above Some of mine are staunchly pro-mage, anti-Circle, NO MATTER WHAT. (Does not mean they are revolutionaries or violent individuals; Nemanja was a very calm and compassionate soul.) Others are pro-Circle and more likely to be on Fenris' side. Some change throughout the playthrough. It depends.
Hawke is not feeding Fenris poison. I mean really. That quote is Fenris realizing his bitterness and hate at some point was his continuing of it. He gave it far more power than it should've had. He had chances to be happy and was squandering them because of a past he refused to let be in the past (I can relate).
Well, I think when your past is slavery, it can be a little tough to move past lol
Hawke is not feeding Fenris poison. I mean really. That quote is Fenris realizing his bitterness and hate at some point was his continuing of it. He gave it far more power than it should've had. He had chances to be happy and was squandering them because of a past he refused to let be in the past (I can relate).
Yes, i don't disagree with it, but just from my perspective, Fenris's soul first of all needs mending, and only then evolution. In RM you kinda jump over the former right to the latter. Just my opinion, post-Alone scene is better in RM, that is.
And on that note one more shot of protective Fenris (sorry, i was dabbling in dark magic that PT, but lets pretend Hawke was wounded ):
Well, I think when your past is slavery, it can be a little tough to move past lol
Didn't say it wasn't tough to move on. That said he DOES have the choice to move on and he eventually takes it.
I get prickly when people try to say the rivalrymance is Hawke being an evil abusive douchecanoe when...that's hardly the case. Fenris gives as good as he gets.
Didn't say it wasn't tough to move on. That said he DOES have the choice to move on and he eventually takes it.
I get prickly when people try to say the rivalrymance is Hawke being an evil abusive douchecanoe when...that's hardly the case. Fenris gives as good as he gets.
Yes, I can see that you do 
But as you saw, I didn't say the rivalmance was Hawke being evil and abusive; I just said the different romances appeal to different people 
My bad I saw your quote on 2 of renfrees point as you agreeing with the whole poison remark as you said nothing about it outside the friendship and rivalryromance being different. So that was more towards Ren than you.
Yes, i don't disagree with it, but just from my perspective, Fenris's soul first of all needs mending, and only then evolution. In RM you kinda jump over the former right to the latter. Just my opinion, post-Alone scene is better in RM, that is.
That's fair enough. My Hawke isn't into the mending people's souls thing. (The one Hawke that was ended the romance after the alone scene because he had come on too strong and figured Fenris needed time to get used to having relationships that weren't abusive.). *He moved on to Anders. That was a hilarious disaster.
The only conversations I really prefer from the friendship are the gift giving. Fenris is so prickly if you give him gifts on rivalry.
That's fair enough. My Hawke isn't into the mending people's souls thing. (The one Hawke that was ended the romance after the alone scene because he had come on too strong and figured Fenris needed time to get used to having relationships that weren't abusive.). *He moved on to Anders. That was a hilarious disaster.
The only conversations I really prefer from the friendship are the gift giving. Fenris is so prickly if you give him gifts on rivalry.
About rivalry gifts - i once gave Blade of Mercy after reconciliation, and was like "Wait, what?! Is he going to run on me again or punch me in the chest? Poor stupid Hawke".
Some sweet Fenris to remedy that:
Yeah he's spitting hot coals when you give him that. My poor mage Hawke was like "Alrighty then. I'll just...sell it." Either that or he gave it to Carver.
That and the whole "I'm not talking to you about that night we spent together for 3 years" works far better on rivalry to me. On friendship I'm just "really Fen?" It's a stupidly long time regardless but rivalry takes the sting out of it a bit.
Yeah he's spitting hot coals when you give him that. My poor mage Hawke was like "Alrighty then. I'll just...sell it." Either that or he gave it to Carver.
That and the whole "I'm not talking to you about that night we spent together for 3 years" works far better on rivalry to me. On friendship I'm just "really Fen?" It's a stupidly long time regardless but rivalry takes the sting out of it a bit.
You know there's actually a way to headcannon the stupidly long wait, you have to remember that we are seeing DA2 as being told by Varric and he probably shoved all the quests into the same timeframe for convenience sake, Especially since Fenris's part in the tale isn't important to Cassandra. Since "Alone" isn't reliant on any of the other stuff going on in act 3 it's probably not wrong to assume that it took place in the 3 years between acts, maybe a year and a half or so after Hawke becomes champion. I know long distance communication takes a long time in Thedas but since Danarius wanted Fenris to find Varania I doubt it would have taken three years.
Yeah the whole "Varric was wrong" thing never did go to well with me. It's a good excuse but I can't take it too seriously because in that case...there's absolutely nothing Varric can't be wrong about making the whole game potentially pointless and untrue. And with how nosy Varric and Isabela are I found it really hard to believe they would'nt have had any clue if Hawke/Fenris talked about it (If only by Fenris being more surly than usual).
Doesn't the act open up with a "It's been three years since hawke defeated the Arishok..." ?
Doesn't the act open up with a "It's been three years since hawke defeated the Arishok..." ?
What does it have to do with Hawke's intimate life? Well, unless you've tried to bang Arishok ofc. I know i did
I say Fenris is a demon
Literally a wrath demon trappt in a mortal body by Danarius, so he can only be angry and hate, and put his hand thro people like a fade spirit.
I say Fenris is a demon
Literally a wrath demon trappt in a mortal body by Danarius, so he can only be angry and hate, and put his hand thro people like a fade spirit.
Except he's not, if you ever bothered to talk to him past recruitment. Don't even know if that was a serious attempt.
Yeah the whole "Varric was wrong" thing never did go to well with me. It's a good excuse but I can't take it too seriously because in that case...there's absolutely nothing Varric can't be wrong about making the whole game potentially pointless and untrue. And with how nosy Varric and Isabela are I found it really hard to believe they would'nt have had any clue if Hawke/Fenris talked about it (If only by Fenris being more surly than usual).
Doesn't the act open up with a "It's been three years since hawke defeated the Arishok..." ?
I didn't say that Varric was wrong, just that he moved a few things for narrative convenience to make it a more coherent and easier story to tell. The entire game makes more sense if you assume he did it for nearly all the less important quests, it doesn't make sense that everything would be clumped together into several distinct timeframes like it is in the game. Varric is more concerned with telling a good story than he is with being completely accurate, and good stories need structure.
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