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[congokong]

I'm not sure I agree.

 

Or rather, I'm not all that impressed with any of the romances as to single out Fenris'. I think my Hawke's are better off becoming celibate nuns/monks in this game.

 

Well, I don't think any of them had a romance scene like in LotSB for example. For me I felt an attachment to Merrill where I just couldn't bring myself not to romance her. I got the same feeling for Liara in ME. Maybe it's their gentle, lonely nature. I never felt that for any of the LIs in DA:O. But even though I really liked Merrill the romance scene was too rushed. It goes from painfully slow by taking 3 years to start to confessing their feelings, jumping into bed together, and then moving in. ??  As I said, what they did with Fenris was worse IMO.

 

Without a character development for Fenris where romancing a mage Hawke causes him to rethink his bias on mages; I just feel like the Fenris rivalmance is a toxic relationship. People say they can get a friendship romance with him as a mage. I don't know how. Unless you're a self-hating mage or hide him like a lepper during mage missions I don't see how it's done. And keeping him home on mage missions makes it even harder to reach 100% friendship since most of his points come from things like supporting locking mages up.

[Jaison1986]

I think DA2 had the weakest romances in any Bioware game. In DA:O I could romance any companion and feel completely fine with it. It was an question of who I liked more, wereas in DA2 I felt pretty uncortable with most LI, being turned off by their personality or their actions, and in contrast, it was an question of wich romance felt the least crappy.

 

The lack of development was my least concern, oh, if it were only that. I looked at each companion and thought, Do I really want to get involved with an blood mage that deal with demons? And possessed abomination with little self control? An selfish pirate that leaves everyone to die and suffer if it means she gets personal benefit? An escaped slave with angers issue and an deep hatred for mages? It's like the devs don't want to give Hawke an option of stability.

[congokong]

I think DA2 had the weakest romances in any Bioware game. In DA:O I could romance any companion and feel completely fine with it. It was an question of who I liked more, wereas in DA2 I felt pretty uncortable with most LI, being turned off by their personality or their actions, and in contrast, it was an question of wich romance felt the least crappy.

 

The lack of development was my least concern, oh, if it were only that. I looked at each companion and thought, Do I really want to get involved with an blood mage that deal with demons? And possessed abomination with little self control? An selfish pirate that leaves everyone to die and suffer if it means she gets personal benefit? An escaped slave with angers issue and an deep hatred for mages? It's like the devs don't want to give Hawke an option of stability.

 

Don't forget the celibate Sebastian. Even though I never felt an attachment to any of the DA:O LIs, I do feel the pacing of the relationships were more believable. In DA2 the 3 year interval between Act 1 and 2 to start a relationship was the first mistake. Am I to believe it took 3 years for Hawke to initiate sex with Isabela despite them working together all this time and Isabela making the offer for sex in the Chantry in Act 1? The same goes for the other LIs? 3 years?! The dialogue between acts behaves like it's been merely days or weeks between acts. Ex: Companions apologizing in act 2 for Carver/Bethany's death. I can believe the 3 year thing in Act 2 for maybe a homosexual relationship because that's a more delicate situation when neither may wish to jeopardize a friendship and/or are unsure of the other's sexual orientation.

 

Fenris has the worst romance development because it's 3 years to start, then he dumps you right after sex, and then you just pick up right where you left off 3 years later like it was nothing. Basically it takes 6 years from when you first meet Fenris to actually start dating him despite being together the entire time. And the whole "touching you brought back memories" thing with him was dropped in Act 3.

[Jaison1986]

It's fun interacting with most of them though.. I like what they bring to the story. So there's that at least. But romancing? I could easily do without it.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. I did like their interactions. The DA2 companions were very colorful and allowed for some really good moments. Isabela teasing Aveline during her quest, or Merrill over the top naive comments (though I admit, sarcastic Hawke was the funniest character in the game for me). But like you said, their romances on the other hand can be an huge turn off.

[congokong]

 (though I admit, sarcastic Hawke was the funniest character in the game for me).

 

 

Just curious, what Hawke did you prefer? Witty Hawke did have the best 1-liners but I felt aggressive Hawke was the most interesting. To me aggressive is the most realistic considering Hawke's history/lifestyle and it gives Hawke believable flaws and personality. Being witty in life-threatening situations with funny lines coming so naturally feels 1-dimensional to me. Diplomatic Hawke is just boring and too perfect.

[Jaison1986]

I prefer sarcastic Hawke. Diplomatic Hawke feels like *wimp mode on* to me, but of course I choose an couple of diplomatic lines from time to time. Aggressive Hawke have some cool moments, but most of the times it feels like you are being just jerkish and uncaring. Not only sarcastic Hawke haves some great one liners, but it's an much more tactical personality. You don't naively accept every argument like an diplomatic Hawke, and neither you shut people down with an aggressive personality.

[Ryzaki]

I love snarky Hawke in a rivalymance with Fenris
 

Though I do agree the time skips do not do that romance any favors. As it is I just headcanon them as spending time together after that mostly teaching Fenris how to read and write.

[TaHol]

 

Without a character development for Fenris where romancing a mage Hawke causes him to rethink his bias on mages; I just feel like the Fenris rivalmance is a toxic relationship. People say they can get a friendship romance with him as a mage. I don't know how. Unless you're a self-hating mage or hide him like a lepper during mage missions I don't see how it's done. And keeping him home on mage missions makes it even harder to reach 100% friendship since most of his points come from things like supporting locking mages up.

The video I made is mage-Hawke having friendship-romance with Fenris. I had Anders at full friendship too. It is not difficult. You don't have to be self-hating mage. I dragged Anders and Fenris with me like I always do. Before Fenris was in full friendship, I left him at home only when doing Anders' quests. If Fenris sometimes takes some rivalry-points, it is not the end of the world. Just romancing him will give so much friendship he will worship you forever. Joke with him, hate slavers, respect him, don't be a jerk and sleep around. If you don't believe me watch the video I made, it is at the previous page. And yes, I really got Anders to be at full friendship without even trying (because at that playthrough his scores were irrelevant). And I had them both with me 80% of time. I simply can't understand how it can be difficult, I did it just by going with my instintcs.

[congokong]

I've never been able to get Fenris at full friendship as a mage-supporter; not even close. By end-game I'd be lucky if he was even in the friend-zone. Getting Anders' friendship as a mage supporter is easy. What's impressive about it?

 

You can't understand how completing Fenris friendmance is difficult?

 

http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Approval

 

 

Most of it involves treating mages or mage-associates like garbage. Ex: Getting friendship from blackmailing Thrask or simply agreeing to visit Merrill

[Abelas Forever!]

I always feel sorry for my Hawke and Fenris because it takes them three years to get back together. So much time wasted..

[Jaison1986]

Here is an guide for friendmancing Fenris without being an pro templar jerk:

 

During his personal talk at his mansion, tell him you have no home to return to and when he says he is going after Danarius, tell him it's an good idea +20 friendship

 

When you recruit Merrill, choose the aggressive response saying she summoned an demon when she opens the barrier +10 frienship (note that saying you wil visit Merrill at her home nets you 5 rivalry)

 

When recruiting Anders, tell him his idea of mage freedom is a bit controversial +5 friendship

 

In the quest Wayward son, ask Fenris to deal with the slaver and kill him right after +10 friendship

 

During the quest a bitter pill, tell the Slaver Fenris is not an slave and agree with him to go after the slavers +10 friendship

 

When talk to Orana the blonde elf girl, say you are sorry for what happened to her and tell to Fenris you plan to hire her +15 friendship

 

When dealing with Hadriana, tell Fenris it's his call +5 friendship and then whe he kills her, tell him you are sorry +10 friendship

 

The book of Shartan gift +15 friendship

 

This alone locks him on 100 friendship bar.

[TheMadHarridan]

The Blade of Mercy is the best sword in the game? By the time I get it from the "Best Served Cold" quest, it is so beneath everything I have (and my companions have) that I end up selling it.

 

And you can get the sword even on the friendship path with Fenris. You just have to say that you want to keep it after he talks about it. I think you get five fewer friendship points if you keep it (+10 instead of +15), but that's it.

[coldwetn0se]

I think it's better just rival him anyways. Otherwise, you don't get the best sword in the game.

I never really use the Sword of Mercy (granted I usually friend Fenris, even as a pro-mage, but I have rivaled him as well). Since I have all the DLC's, I usually pull swords from those (and I have a couple of weapon mods). Often, I use the shower-head...err Empress's Point from Warrior Pack I, by the time you have access to the Sword of Mercy, or Hawke's Key from Legacy. I don't generally equip the Sword of Mercy to Fenris (or not for very long *shrug* ). Different strokes for different folks though.

**EDIT**

@TheMadHarradan brings up an important point, that I admit, I had forgotten. Yes, you can keep it for yourself, even on the friendship path. He is usually maxed by the time I can gift it to him, so he is locked into the path. Points no longer matter.

[Jaison1986]

The sword of mercy is the best vanilla sword in the game (unrestricted version), and hey, it looks pretty cool too:

 

[TaHol]

@congokong:

 

You obviously missed about 90% of my point in your need to be right, but ok, it must be hard if you say so.

[Ryzaki]

I rival him so Fenris always pretty much tosses the sword at my mage Hawke's head XD You can make him equip it later anyway. Trololol.

[congokong]

@jaison1986

 

Giving a comprehensive meta-gaming list on how to succeed at getting max friendship with Fenris doesn't mean it's easy. You still have to know when to bring him, when not to (which is key to not override friendship points), and what to say/do. It doesn't come natural at all for a pro-mage character.

[renfrees]

@jaison1986

 

Giving a comprehensive meta-gaming list on how to succeed at getting max friendship with Fenris doesn't mean it's easy. You still have to know when to bring him, when not to (which is key to not override friendship points), and what to say/do. It doesn't come natural at all for a pro-mage character.

I do agree that without meta-gaming, if you bring Fenris everywhere with you (and why wouldn't you, if you are interested in him?), as a pro-mage but anti-slaver, you could probably end up killing him after siding with mages.

After some calculation, I had Fenris at 30 Rivalry after A1, choosing pro-mage/anti-slaver/kind answers.

[congokong]

I do agree that without meta-gaming, if you bring Fenris everywhere with you (and why wouldn't you, if you are interested in him?), as a pro-mage but anti-slaver, you could probably end up killing him after siding with mages.

After some calculation, I had Fenris at 30 Rivalry after A1, choosing pro-mage/anti-slaver/kind answers.

I can tell you from experience that without meta-gaming Fenris was one of those characters that was stuck in the middle between friendship/rivalry for me. It wasn't until my 4th Hawke that I managed to get him to max rivalry with sufficient meta-gaming. Before that I treated him well but was pro-mage and brought him along for many of those missions for his dialogue. I didn't even get any of his Questioning Beliefs quests because he was so stuck in the middle.

 

In one of the first 3 playthroughs I did have to kill him. His behavior seemed out of character. He had been understandably weary of mages but helping the templars to slaughter them? Then there are lines like:

 

(paraphrased)

 

Fenris: "Back then into a corner and they show their true colors. Why you're defending them I'll never know."

Hawke: "Why are you surprised? I'm no different than they are."

Fenris: "If only I knew that a long time ago."

 

Fenris acts like Hawke slept with his wife or something. Not to mention Fenris is a big hypocrite. He's done many questionable things to survive just as the mages do. And you learn from Night Terrors that he wishes to be like the magisters despite all his bad-mouthing them.

[renfrees]

In one of the first 3 playthroughs I did have to kill him. His behavior seemed out of character. He had been understandably weary of mages but helping the templars to slaughter them? Then there are lines like:

 

(paraphrased)

 

Fenris: "Back then into a corner and they show their true colors. Why you're defending them I'll never know."

Hawke: "Why are you surprised? I'm no different than they are."

Fenris: "If only I knew that a long time ago."

 

Fenris acts like Hawke slept with his wife or something. Not to mention Fenris is a big hypocrite. He's done many questionable things to survive just as the mages do. And you learn from Night Terrors that he wishes to be like the magisters despite all his bad-mouthing them.

Well, if you think that his brands are just fancy tattoos, and pouring the wine was his sole duty around Danarius, then your position is understandable. And what morally questionable things he did for survival, other than initial bait? I'm not saying he didn't, because his past is still a mystery, but so far it seems like a part of your own headcanon.

Also, Kirkwall's mages aren't harmless en large, so why would he help you to free them without high level of approval? All the crazed abominations aren't convincing for a person, familiar with outcomes of blood magic firsthand.