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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#54901
renfrees

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I don't usually let him kill her because he might regret it after. Perhaps she could tell him what his life was like before the ritual, if they ever came to speaking terms (likely not).

 

But sometimes I do let him kill her. He made a point about how she was ready to see him killed. I sympathize with his reasoning because he barely knew her so what was she to him. On her part however she knew him her whole life, grew up with him, experienced what their life was like and she still wanted to see him burn. Its heartless to the core. And i hate her guts.

I don't advocate for killing her, actually. But I also don't like when people try to absolve problematic characters, like Anders or Varania, of responsibility for their actions, laying it all on external factors and making them victims of circumstances.



#54902
nikki-tikki

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Regardless of whether or not Varania deserves to die, I suspect Fenris would regret killing her afterwards.  If you let him kill Hadriana and then remind him that he had given his word to let her go, he admits that he wanted to let her go but couldn't.
 

  

He says that about Hadriana. Not his sister.

I don't advocate for killing her, actually. But I also don't like when people try to absolve problematic characters, like Anders or Varania, of responsibility for their actions, laying it all on external factors and making them victims of circumstances.


Yeah. Me too. But sometimes you just gotta kill the b!tch.

#54903
Heidirs

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Says Hawke who knows next to nothing about Tevinter besides what Fenris told them. Danarius was using her just as she was using him to get a better standing. I think they are pretty equal in that regard. She didn't do it to save herself, she did it to come into position of power. And don't tell me that we know nothing of her situation, her own words speak for itself - "I would have been a magister. It was my only chance."

 

Would you also call Hawke a victim if they turned Bethany over to the templars to get rid of the neccessity to move from place to place? A victim of society, why not? It's so easy to blame it on society, but in the end you are always alone with your actions.

 

She says becoming a magister was her only chance - but her only chance at what? Was it that she only wanted power or was there something she was fleeing that she thought become a magister would save her from. The point is, we don't know.

 

And it comes right down to it we know barely more about Tevinter than what Hawke does. If Hawke doesn't have the full viewpoint, neither do we.

 

We can certainly judge Hawke for turning over Bethany, but we know Hawke's story. We don't know Varania's. And BioWare rarely writes one dimensional characters.

 

I don't usually let him kill her because he might regret it after. Perhaps she could tell him what his life was like before the ritual, if they ever came to speaking terms (likely not).

 

But sometimes I do let him kill her. He made a point about how she was ready to see him killed. I sympathize with his reasoning because he barely knew her so what was she to him. On her part however she knew him her whole life, grew up with him, experienced what their life was like and she still wanted to see him burn. Its heartless to the core. And i hate her guts.

 

Fenris says she was ready to have killed, but I think that's an overstatement on his part. She was only handing him over to Danarius, who isn't interested in killing him.

 

Regardless of whether or not Varania deserves to die, I suspect Fenris would regret killing her afterwards.  If you let him kill Hadriana and then remind him that he had given his word to let her go, he admits that he wanted to let her go but couldn't.

 

I don't think Varania's situation is all that analogous to Hawke's, though.  For one thing, there were at least two mages in Hawke's family (three for a mage!Hawke) and turning any one of them over to the Templars would have meant risking exposure for all of them.  But I think the bigger issue here is that Hawke is a human with ties to nobility, in a society that regards elves as inferior and commoners as being, well, common.  Thus, there are opportunities available to the Hawke family that Varania and her mother probably never had.

 

That doesn't make her behavior any less reprehensible, though.  Rather than betraying her brother, she could (presumably) have gone to a Circle outside Tevinter and gained admission there if she truly wanted to study magic.

 

I think we can compare Varania's story to Bartrand's. Bartand leaves Varric and co in the Deep Roads to die. And yet, there's so many different ways that story can go. Varric can outright kill him but leave filling empty about it. Or Anders can heal his mind for a minute, and Varric decides that he just doesn't have it in him to kill Bartrand anymore.

 

I do wonder at what Varania would have to say about what she went through and why she holds the resentment she does (because I definitely think there's some there). But if Bartrand can be granted at least some forgiveness for what he's done, why can't she? I'm not saying what she did wasn't terrible, but that doesn't mean there isn't some tragic backstory there.


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#54904
Lythinae

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Also confirms that Fenris was unaware of the ritual


I thought the opposite. It points out that Danarius asked for volunteers, and that many jumped at the chance to be a subject. If I've overlooked something that contradicts that ...?? It's one of the things I hated, given how people have used it as a reason for why he shouldn't hate magic.
 

No, he specifically says "maybe her parents will believe she was killed by Templars" if you click on him while exploring.
Unfortunately, I don't have a DA2 save right now.

 
Huh, I've never done that. I've just started a new run through (rogue!fenris FTW!), will try and remember to click on companions more often.

#54905
Heidirs

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I don't advocate for killing her, actually. But I also don't like when people try to absolve problematic characters, like Anders or Varania, of responsibility for their actions, laying it all on external factors and making them victims of circumstances.

 

And you do have a point there. I am not quick to offer Anders any sympathy, though I do think he wouldn't have done half the things he did if not the influence Vengeance had on him.

 

I'm certainly not trying to absolve Varania of her actions. But I still find her to be a sympathetic character. Maybe if I spent some time with her, I'd think otherwise. But as we see very little of her, we just don't know, and it's quite possible there's more to her than that little bit we see. I think part of the reason, I want to sympathize with her is because she's the only family Fenris has. And for his sake, I rather not believe she's a completely cold hearted b****.


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#54906
springacres

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  He says that about Hadriana. Not his sister.

I know, but my point was that if he regretted not being able to let Hadriana go when he had hated her for so long, he might also regret having killed his sister - of whom he seems to have some happy, albeit dim, memories.

 

She says becoming a magister was her only chance - but her only chance at what? Was it that she only wanted power or was there something she was fleeing that she thought become a magister would save her from. The point is, we don't know.

 

And it comes right down to it we know barely more about Tevinter than what Hawke does. If Hawke doesn't have the full viewpoint, neither do we.

 

We can certainly judge Hawke for turning over Bethany, but we know Hawke's story. We don't know Varania's. And BioWare rarely writes one dimensional characters.

 

 

Fenris says she was ready to have killed, but I think that's an overstatement on his part. She was only handing him over to Danarius, who isn't interested in killing him.

 

 

I think we can compare Varania's story to Bartrand's. Bartand leaves Varric and co in the Deep Roads to die. And yet, there's so many different ways that story can go. Varric can outright kill him but leave filling empty about it. Or Anders can heal his mind for a minute, and Varric decides that he just doesn't have it in him to kill Bartrand anymore.

 

I do wonder at what Varania would have to say about what she went through and why she holds the resentment she does (because I definitely think there's some there). But if Bartrand can be granted at least some leeway for what he's done, why can't she? I'm not saying what she did wasn't terrible, but that doesn't mean there isn't some tragic backstory there.

I think this is probably the best comparison, actually.  If you bring Varric for Alone and don't turn Fenris over, Varric can help convince Fenris to spare his sister in spite of everything.

 

This is definitely a situation where knowing some background to explain Varania's resentment would be nice.



#54907
renfrees

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I thought the opposite. It points out that Danarius asked for volunteers, and that many jumped at the chance to be a subject. If I've overlooked something that contradicts that ...?? It's one of the things I hated, given how people have used it as a reason for why he shouldn't hate magic.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Slaves knew they will be granted place as Danarius' bodyguard and a boon of their choosing. But it doesn't seem as if they knew about the experiment or its nature. Quote: "He fought long and hard to prove himself worthy of what the slaves all believed would be a gift." I doubt slaves in Tevinter would believe some magical experiment to be a gift, what with being subjects to blood magic rituals and general use of magic in this country.

 

I know, but my point was that if he regretted not being able to let Hadriana go when he had hated her for so long, he might also regret having killed his sister - of whom he seems to have some happy, albeit dim, memories.

He didn't regret not letting Hadriana go, the b*tch deserved all she's got. Fenris regretted going back on his word. There's a big difference there.


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#54908
Lythinae

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I want to sympathize with her is because she's the only family Fenris has.


This is probably going to across bitchy-ier than intended

But she's not. She's really, really not. Blood isn't the only thing that makes a family, and family are the people who stand by you and give a **** about what happens to you. Fenris might have wanted her to be, but it's along way from saying she's the only family he has.

To quote Isabela "Family's not just the people you're related to by blood. There are other people who care about you."
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#54909
Heidirs

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Perhaps I wasn't clear. Slaves knew they will be granted place as Danarius' bodyguard and a boon of their choosing. But it doesn't seem as if they knew about the experiment or its nature. Quote: "He fought long and hard to prove himself worthy of what the slaves all believed would be a gift." I doubt slaves in Tevinter would believe some magical experiment to be a gift, what with being subjects to blood magic rituals and general use of magic in this country.

 

I thought that passage was just referring to the slaves thinking the boon would be worth whatever cost.

 

The passage also says that the chosen subject "had to be willing to undergo the operation... If they balked at the minute, the process would be ruined and months of preparation wasted." So it sounds to me like Danarius would have told the slaves about the procedure before asking for volunteers, or else he would risk selecting an unwilling subject and the whole thing would be a waste.



#54910
Heidirs

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This is probably going to across bitchy-ier than intended

But she's not. She's really, really not. Blood isn't the only thing that makes a family, and family are the people who stand by you and give a **** about what happens to you. Fenris might have wanted her to be, but it's along way from saying she's the only family he has.

To quote Isabela "Family's not just the people you're related to by blood. There are other people who care about you."

 

She definitely isn't his only family, but that just change my feelings on wishing they could reconcile somehow.

 

I think it'd be nice for Fenris to recover some of his past, even if Hawke is his future.



#54911
renfrees

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I thought that passage was just referring to the slaves thinking the boon would be worth whatever cost.

 

The passage also says that the chosen subject "had to be willing to undergo the operation... If they balked at the minute, the process would be ruined and months of preparation wasted." So it sounds to me like Danarius would have told the slaves about the procedure before asking for volunteers, or else he would risk selecting an unwilling subject and the whole thing would be a waste.

There's also "Danarius wanted a subject with iron resolve" so the competition must have served as sort of natural selection. But it's really unclear if he told them beforehand about the experiment or not. Recalling Fenris' words how Danarius killed a little boy to impress his fellow senators at a party, he doesn't seem to be considerate with the use of magic and his slaves should have been aware of it.



#54912
Lythinae

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The passage also says that the chosen subject "had to be willing to undergo the operation... If they balked at the minute, the process would be ruined and months of preparation wasted."


Between that and the 'bearing the pain of the ritual without flinching' .... ouch.

It didn't outright break any of my own headcanon, so I can live with it. 
 

She definitely isn't his only family, but that just change my feelings on wishing they could reconcile somehow.
 
I think it'd be nice for Fenris to recover some of his past, even if Hawke is his future.


While I'm sympathetic and I don't usually kill her, I don't think there any reason for reconciliation (unless you headcanon that Fenris does eventually want it and personally, I don't). She still betrays him, even though they have a blood relationship as well as a familial one that she remembers.

She might have been the easiest link to his past, but I doubt she would have been the only one.

FWIW, I'm adopted (there's not a single drop of common blood in my family). So I'm probably coming at it from a slightly different perspective.
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#54913
Heidirs

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While I'm sympathetic and I don't usually kill her, I don't think there any reason for reconciliation (unless you headcanon that Fenris does eventually want it and personally, I don't). She still betrays him, even though they have a blood relationship as well as a familial one that she remembers.

She might have been the easiest link to his past, but I doubt she would have been the only one.

FWIW, I'm adopted (there's not a single drop of common blood in my family). So I'm probably coming at it from a slightly different perspective.

 

I might just be drawn to it because there seems to be some kind of tragic history there. Fenris clearly cared deeply about his mother and sister being willing to go through what he did so they could be freed. And yet Varania ends up resenting him for it, and Fenris nearly kills her for her betrayal. I have to wonder, if he had memories of his past, if they'd paint a very different picture of their relationship. I'd really like to know what happened.



#54914
nikki-tikki

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Well he does say he remembers playing with her in their master's courtyard as children.

Which makes the betrayal that much worse. The one vague thing he can remember must have made him eager to reconcile with her and discover his past. All then to have his hopes shattered as Danarius walks down the steps with that creepy ass smile on his face.

My heart breaks every time they show you Fenris' face when he sees him. All his hopes shatters as he realizes what is going on. His sister, the one that he trusted enough to send her coin and to meet with her, wanted to betray him all along. Just so she can become like Danarius.

Brb. Balling my eyes out now...

#54915
springacres

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Between that and the 'bearing the pain of the ritual without flinching' .... ouch.

It didn't outright break any of my own headcanon, so I can live with it. 
 

While I'm sympathetic and I don't usually kill her, I don't think there any reason for reconciliation (unless you headcanon that Fenris does eventually want it and personally, I don't). She still betrays him, even though they have a blood relationship as well as a familial one that she remembers.

She might have been the easiest link to his past, but I doubt she would have been the only one.

FWIW, I'm adopted (there's not a single drop of common blood in my family). So I'm probably coming at it from a slightly different perspective.

Ouch is right.  And considering how toxic lyrium is, well... I can understand Fenris' extreme reluctance to be touched, even years after the ritual.

 

I headcanon that Fenris might eventually want to reconcile, plus I just don't want him to have to live with the knowledge that he killed his sister.



#54916
renfrees

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"What did Fenris think was in the chest?"

Information on his family. He didn't really think it was true, and was all but certain it was just a way to lure him into the open, but he couldn't ignore it.

"Did Fenris know about the ritual? Or just the boon?"

Just the boon. Even if he'd known about what was going to be done to him, he wouldn't have known what that meant.

Here, we have it settled I suppose. So unless they retconned it, Fenris had no knowledge what would be done to him.


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#54917
aoibhealfae

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Beta-ed The Elder Scrolls Online again. Seeing FemShep in the beginning of the game.. hearing Fenris (Gideon Emery) emo-ing in the background. First Teen Wolf, then Daredevil.. then ESO. This guy is everywhere....


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#54918
springacres

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thats1evildude posted this in the Alistair thread for Origins, but it belongs here too...

 

[very VERY belated edit] Just to clarify, I did NOT draw this, wish I had the skills to do anything this good!

 

thats1evildude, on 24 Apr 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

    There was this thing in the Twitter thread.


    https://www.pinteres...78424765803262/ 


#54919
renfrees

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This are very nice picture, I like how relaxed and confident Fenris is there. Here, have some more:

 

tumblr_nldihzP2xq1r7vmnbo1_1280.png


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#54920
SmilesJA

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That smirk.


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#54921
renfrees

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Well, have another one then ;)

 

tumblr_nlsamncy6G1r7vmnbo1_1280.jpg


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#54922
Junebug

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Well, have another one then  ;)

:o Could I get rebloggable links to these pieces? They're delicious.

 

 

 

Someone made a fan dub over Fenris's scenes with cr1tikal's audio and it's hilarious:

 

 

(here's the link in case video doesn't load)


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#54923
renfrees

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:o Could I get rebloggable links to these pieces? They're delicious.

You can get all the good stuff from the artist's blog - xla-hainex.tumblr.com

Here's one more from her:

 

tumblr_nn61u0TFHG1r7vmnbo1_1280.jpg


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#54924
nikki-tikki

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Hot. Damn. 

 

faint-gif.gif


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#54925
Junebug

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You can get all the good stuff from the artist's blog - xla-hainex.tumblr.com

Awesomeeee thanks!