55378 réponses à ce sujet

[Catilina]

Why would Varric appreciate it when Fenris gets infected with red lyrium? 

(And Dagna?) Just a bad joke was, sorry :x

[nightscrawl]

@GervaiseI "also agree that male Hawke not being able to talk about Fenris' past experience is balanced out by female Hawke not being told about Anders and Karl" Er i don't get what u mean by this? How does anders x karl show abt fenris??

 

Gervaise was responding to my original post here, which was itself a response to another post contrasting the lack of the Fenris/maleHawke past relationship dialogue option with the inclusion of the same with Anders/maleHawke.

 

The point is that it's not as if the maleHawke is getting short-changed on relationships in terms of information about the LI when the same exists for the femHawke. Male Hawke gets a tidbit about Anders, but not the Fenris dialogue, while femHawke does NOT get the bit about Anders and does get the Fenris dialogue.

 

It is,

1, 0 versus

0, 1

 

It balances out.

 

That's not to say I like it. On my femHawke plays where I romanced Anders I would prefer that she had gotten that dialogue as well.

[vertigomez]

To make up for red lyrium Fenris, here's some schmoopy picspam.

Honhonhon~

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It's a Fenris sandwich! He looks waaaay too pleased with this situation.

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Post-Arishok TLC.

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Solo Fenris in armor.

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[nightscrawl]

^ Wow those are really great, I especially like the first one. I don't think many artists saw/have seen the concept art for his markings to accurately represent them.

 

And the post-Arishok fight... man Hawke really needed that. The one time I rolled a warrior (I know that's a mage in the art) she got smashed to smithereens. x_X

[springacres]

That post-Arishok one made me melt.  My canon is a mage and she definitely needed that.

[nightscrawl]

Not really related, but I like seeing Isabela with the lose, flowing hair sans bandana. Her Qunari-Isabela look from the comics was totally damn awesome.

[springacres]

Indeed, many ppl say varania isn't evil and yea he would want his family and identity to reaffirm his turmoil, belonging, yet she betrayed him. She undermined his selfworth. (Aside from all the AUs n how people alter their dynamics... ) my fren and i were joking what if insurance agencies show up in DA maybe can buy protection for elves

I'm conflicted about Varania.  On the one hand, it's hard for me to see her actions as being entirely evil, given that we don't know to what extent she's telling us her own perceptions, or what Danarius told her (or didn't tell her), or even whether or not he would have followed through on his agreement to make her his apprentice (which I personally very much doubt).  On the other hand, she viewed her own social advancement as worth so much more than her brother that she was willing to throw his sacrifice back in his teeth.

 

However, when it comes down to it, I have always talked Fenris into sparing her.  She is still his sister, and he still has some faint, good memories of their childhood together, and someday he might want to reach out and try to reconcile with her.  Besides, Hawke by that point has lost most of their family, and a Hawke who knows Fenris has killed his own sister would probably not see him the same way ever again.

 

I don't like Varania, but I wish there were more information about her in the canon, because it would put her behavior towards Fenris into more context if we knew more about her background than just what she tells us.

[Melbella]

On Varania, I have a feeling Danarius had the same effect on her that he did on Fenris, until the latter finally was out of his sphere of influence for a while. Fenris has so much anger about everything that happened to him....I imagine it's quite a shock to realize he wasn't the only one Danarius mistreated and ab/used.

[vertigomez]

Yeah, I have always encouraged him to spare Varania. What she did was horrendous and I don't expect Fenris (or Hawke, for that matter) to ever forgive her treachery, but it's one of those things where we have no idea what her life has been like or what made her think that taking advantage of Fenris's trust and selling him out to Danarius - and I'm honestly not sure which is worse - was a grand idea. On a meta level, it makes me want to go to Tevinter and see what life is like for "free" elves.

It doesn't help that last time this quest came up, I had Varric in my party. "Elf... Fenris, I know how hard this is for you to believe, but this is the last thing you want to do." After he had killed Bartrand... ouch. Dem feels.

Not really related, but I like seeing Isabela with the lose, flowing hair sans bandana. Her Qunari-Isabela look from the comics was totally damn awesome.

Me too. I also like it when it's up off her nape, like in a ponytail? It just looks so thick and like it would get hot, so I imagine her putting it up sometimes. Same with Bethany.

Speaking of hair, is it just me or is there a LOT of fanart of Fenris with long hair? I'd post some examples, but honestly, a cursory Google search is all you need. Apparently it's a reeeaally popular look for him, but I have to say I prefer his normal hairstyle. This comic did make me giggle, though:

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[nightscrawl]

There is quite a bit of post-game art for Dorian where he has long hair as well, and this was even before the Trespasser epilogue slides. But I'll admit that the recent ones posted by you are the first time I've seen it for Fenris.

 

As for Verania, I also always encourage him to spare her, but my reason is more out of concern for Fenris than anything else; the same reason I tell Dorian, "Don't leave it like this." Fenris can be impulsive, as we see during Bitter Pill, and this is a choice he can never take back. Killing her might feel good for all of about five seconds. I would hate to know that he regretted making such a choice when I could possibly have prevented that further anguish.

[Ryzaki]

 

As for Verania, I also always encourage him to spare her, but my reason is more out of concern for Fenris than anything else; the same reason I tell Dorian, "Don't leave it like this." Fenris can be impulsive, as we see during Bitter Pill, and this is a choice he can never take back. Killing her might feel good for all of about five seconds. I would hate to know that he regretted making such a choice when I could possibly have prevented that further anguish.

 

Same. I really don't care for Verania myself but if in the future Fenris wants to have a relationship with her he should be able to have that choice.

[roselavellan]

However, when it comes down to it, I have always talked Fenris into sparing her.  She is still his sister, and he still has some faint, good memories of their childhood together, and someday he might want to reach out and try to reconcile with her.  Besides, Hawke by that point has lost most of their family, and a Hawke who knows Fenris has killed his own sister would probably not see him the same way ever again.

 

I don't like Varania, but I wish there were more information about her in the canon, because it would put her behavior towards Fenris into more context if we knew more about her background than just what she tells us.

 

I did that quest for the first time yesterday, and when it came to Hawke's input, I picked the neutral option, thinking, "oh, I'll just leave the decision with Fenris, surely he won't kill his own siste- ****, FENRIS, WTF?!" 

 

I know he was enraged, and that she had betrayed him, but still, she's his sister, damn it... I reloaded, of course, but I'm horrified he would have done it had I not stepped in.

[vertigomez]

^ To be fair to Fenris, even putting aside the magnitude of his sister's betrayal, Hawke frequently intervenes to stop his/her friends from killing people. Varric has to be talked down repeatedly before he'll relent and spare Bartrand. Anders will kill Ellie if Hawke doesn't stop him (though I suppose the presence of Justice muddies the waters there). Anywho, it's just not that unusual for our friends to fly into homicidal rages, so I can't bring myself to feel horrified.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I can't feel horrified for her. She would've handed him back over to Danarius.

[Fenris8]

@Rosemusk

why are u horrified? I know many would be upset that he chose to destroy her, and maybe i'm the minority, but I prefer to give him the option and satisfaction. What she chose, means nothing as being a magister is more important, if it came down to it, she should have done something else. Given that mages can heal etc all that she need not have resorted to that  

Maybe if there was some canon about her plight, maybe but all we can see is from Fenris' viewpoint not hers.

 

Thank you nightscrawl for the Mhawk balance dialogue thingie.  Fennie doesn't need such a bad family, when he has US plus hawke's group right? Who's with me? *woot!*

[Fenris8]

(And Dagna?) Just a bad joke was, sorry :x

You mean with the red lyrium? I didn't understand that at all I read a fanfic but had to delete away the page, I don't want him to die of red lyrium poisoning dammit Why are some fangirls so evil? and sadistic

[Catilina]

You mean with the red lyrium? I didn't understand that at all I read a fanfic but had to delete away the page, I don't want him to die of red lyrium poisoning dammit Why are some fangirls so evil? and sadistic

People are bad...

[nightscrawl]

@Rosemusk
why are u horrified? I know many would be upset that he chose to destroy her, and maybe i'm the minority, but I prefer to give him the option and satisfaction. What she chose, means nothing as being a magister is more important, if it came down to it, she should have done something else. Given that mages can heal etc all that she need not have resorted to that
Maybe if there was some canon about her plight, maybe but all we can see is from Fenris' viewpoint not hers.
 
Thank you nightscrawl for the Mhawk balance dialogue thingie.  Fennie doesn't need such a bad family, when he has US plus hawke's group right? Who's with me? *woot!*

 
The problem I have in that scene, and the reason I stop him, is that Fenris is not making the choice while in a rational state of mind. He is enraged, and rightly so, but that is not a good place in which to make a decision like killing the ONLY living member of your family. If he wants nothing to do with her after that, then that's fine, but if he kills her and regrets it later on, I think that would suck big time.

You mean with the red lyrium? I didn't understand that at all I read a fanfic but had to delete away the page, I don't want him to die of red lyrium poisoning dammit Why are some fangirls so evil? and sadistic

I think it can be interesting to explore certain avenues with fanfic. However, I'm not really into reading AU in general, although I have my own AU material that I play with.

[roselavellan]

I wasn't upset about what happened to Varania herself, her betrayal was despicable, and she may have deserved the consequences, especially if she knew that Danarius was going to kill/torture Fenris.

 

What I reacted to were the implications for Fenris. As nightscrawl said, he was killing the sole living member of his family. The loss of his memories was obviously painful for him, and actually seeing Varania helped him gain some memories, however brief they were. At the very, very least, she could provide insight into his past life (and does, if you spare her).

 

But more than that, family is important, and it was obviously important to Fenris, so I'm still trying to understand how he could destroy that in a moment of blind rage. Unless it is understood that Varania knew that Danarius was going to kill him, in which case it becomes a bit more understandable... (though still not a good choice, seeing that she is his family and essentially a harmless person with no malice towards Fenris).

 

So perhaps the real question should be, did Varania know that Danarius was going to kill or torture Fenris? Would that be standard procedure for escaped slaves in Tevinter? He was Danarius' "pet" after all, and Varania did say that she thought Fenris "got the better deal".

[roselavellan]

^ To be fair to Fenris, even putting aside the magnitude of his sister's betrayal, Hawke frequently intervenes to stop his/her friends from killing people. Varric has to be talked down repeatedly before he'll relent and spare Bartrand. Anders will kill Ellie if Hawke doesn't stop him (though I suppose the presence of Justice muddies the waters there). Anywho, it's just not that unusual for our friends to fly into homicidal rages, so I can't bring myself to feel horrified.

 

I had forgotten about Bartrand, though I think it was a slightly different case, since Bartrand was clearly corrupted and mad by then. But yes, good point about Hawke's companions, I thought you got a weird bunch of companions in DAO, but it gets even better in DA2, doesn't it?

[Catilina]

If Varania is not totally stupid, she need to knew what will be the fate of Fenris, because she lives in Tevinter, and know Danarius and his plan somewhat. I think.  (Fenris's fate: If you return Fenris to Danarius, you get a letter from Tevinter, in which Danarius wrote: Fenris alive, his memory cleared, and he is a devoted slave again.)

 

(The "freedom was no boon" means that freedom was useless, she had to do what others [for example Danarius] have said. Truly she do not was free. Fenris, however, strengthened and freed himself. He was truly free.)

 

If Hawke (and Varric) ask Fenris to spare Varania's life, they not (primarily) does for Varania. Fenris need to spare Varania's life for himself.
That's no matter, than Varania guilty or not guilty, Fenris had  kills enough people from mere rage. Time to move on.

[vertigomez]

Despite what Fenris thinks, I never got the impression that Danarius was planning to kill Fenris. It's Fen who seems to think Danarius values him solely for the markings, but based on what Danarius says and does, it seems to be more of a pride thing - he cannot allow Fenris to continue to evade him. It's a blow to the ego when what his little wolf should be doing is following him around obediently and adoringly.

Eeeewww. But really, based on his letter this is what his goal seems to be. Not killing or punishing Fenris for disobeying him, and not ripping the markings from his skin because they're so valuable.

I had forgotten about Bartrand, though I think it was a slightly different case, since Bartrand was clearly corrupted and mad by then. But yes, good point about Hawke's companions, I thought you got a weird bunch of companions in DAO, but it gets even better in DA2, doesn't it?

We're always surrounded by a motley crew, that's for sure.

Though on Bartrand, it's interesting to note that in that scene, Varric's not saying he needs to be put out of his misery because he's lost it. He's just pissed and insists that Bartrand can't be allowed to get away with leaving his own brother to die (uh, and Hawke too ).

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I always kill betrand. It's a mercy kill at that point. And since I have Hawke's sibling a warden or dead most of the time it's a bit of revenge too.

[nightscrawl]

... so I'm still trying to understand how he could destroy that in a moment of blind rage.

 
You said it yourself, it's a moment of "blind rage." He had just killed Danarius and turns toward her, so the bloodlust is still on him at that point. I can understand his reaction in the moment, but because I can understand is why I stop him.

[roselavellan]

If Varania is not totally stupid, she need to knew what will be the fate of Fenris, because she lives in Tevinter, and know Danarius and his plan somewhat. I think.  (Fenris's fate: If you return Fenris to Danarius, you get a letter from Tevinter, in which Danarius wrote: Fenris alive, his memory cleared, and he is a devoted slave again.)

 

(The "freedom was no boon" means that freedom was useless, she had to do what others [for example Danarius] have said. Truly she do not was free. Fenris, however, strengthened and freed himself. He was truly free.)

 

If Hawke (and Varric) ask Fenris to spare Varania's life, they not (primarily) does for Varania. Fenris need to spare Varania's life for himself.
That's no matter, than Varania guilty or not guilty, Fenris had  kills enough people from mere rage. Time to move on.

 

I agree. And wow, having Fenris return to Danarius is... chilling.

 

About Varania, though, I did get the impression that she was naive - perhaps it was the voice-acting that made her sound young and naive. And when she said Fenris got the better deal, I thought she meant as the favourite slave of Danarius, which made me think perhaps she thought she was just returning him to his old life. Anyway, you're right, this isn't about Varania.

 

 
You said it yourself, it's a moment of "blind rage." He had just killed Danarius and turns toward her, so the bloodlust is still on him at that point. I can understand his reaction in the moment, but because I can understand is why I stop him.

 

Perhaps this is my issue after all. IRL I normally hate it when people give in to blind rage, and it disturbs me that my favourite LI (for DA2, I mean) does this. I was also disturbed when Solas did it with the 3 mages, though I was able to rationalise it better in that situation since their ignorance clearly made them dangerous.