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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#12626
HolyJellyfish

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Hm, that's a possibility. It'll probably have a sex scene in the end, but maybe he'll be hesitant in accept the, ah, advances of Hawke? :<


Well in this scenario I think letting Hawke touch him at all - in a prolonged, intimate way - would be the so-called "climax" of the relationship and not sex, like the other companions.  That wouldn't make it any less "profound" as it were, as it would represent a significant step forward in intimacy.  But it might be frustrating, for both player and Fenris himself.


Lord I hope not. Please, keep Abstinence Porn OUT of my favorite game kthnx gooooodbye.

#12627
upsettingshorts

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HolyJellyfish wrote...

Lord I hope not. Please, keep Abstinence Porn OUT of my favorite game kthnx gooooodbye.


That's.... not what I described, at all.   I was talking about a relationship with someone who is messed up.  Not some narrow-minded fantasy that romances are about hand holding and double rainbows and Stork-delivered babies.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:42 .


#12628
mellifera

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How is DA2 your favorite game already?

Also, what Shorts said.

Modifié par yukidama, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:44 .


#12629
HolyJellyfish

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Lord I hope not. Please, keep Abstinence Porn OUT of my favorite game kthnx gooooodbye.


That's.... not what I described, at all.


That's sort of the impression I got. Not to use Twilight as a comparison, but the whole idea of a romance where it is dangerous or psychologically tormenting to touch another person, only to have the final moment be a touch or a kiss..? I do hope that the writers go further than the romance culminating in just touching the other person.

To me, that describes abstinence porn. The sexiness of what is forbidden.

#12630
upsettingshorts

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HolyJellyfish wrote...

To me, that describes abstinence porn.


That's ignoring the context of the hypothetical romance, in that Fenris (might be) is a victim of enslavement and invasive body modifications what amounts to medical torture.  It's about adult psychological themes that go into the nature of intimacy and how someone who has been abused may simply not be comfortable with it.

I don't think equating that to "abstinence porn" is appropriate.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:53 .


#12631
HolyJellyfish

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In other words, if Fenris is LI, I'd rather it be a relationship where the PC is able to help Fenris through his emotional scars day by day. More therapy, less forbidden disdainful touching.



I think Twilight has just sort of scarred me for life when it comes to the 'Do not touch me!' culminating in a almost-kiss-no-not-quite-we-can't-its-baaad romance. The writers can handle the romance however they wish. I don't expect them to cater to my needs, but that brand of romantic story telling sends all the wrong messages and isn't tasteful to me.

#12632
upsettingshorts

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HolyJellyfish wrote...
I think Twilight has just sort of scarred me for life when it comes to the 'Do not touch me!' culminating in a almost-kiss-no-not-quite-we-can't-its-baaad romance....that brand of romantic story telling sends all the wrong messages and isn't tasteful to me.


Twilight and Upsettingshorts hypothetical Fenris romance send totally different messages, namely that in the former the weirdly scarred strange one is the guy holding back for dangerous and selfish reasons, and in the latter the person holding back is doing so out of respect and understanding.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:52 .


#12633
HolyJellyfish

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

To me, that describes abstinence porn.


That's ignoring the context of the hypothetical romance, in that Fenris (might be) is a victim of enslavement and invasive body modifications.  It's about adult psychological themes that go into the nature of intimacy and how someone who has been abused may simply not be comfortable with it.

I don't think equating that to "abstinence porn" is appropriate.


I've explained myself in the post above. But again, what it comes down to is that I'd prefer to see a therapeutic relationship as opposed to a distant scarred one that, to be, really is borderline abstinence porn.

If this was a story based on life, I wouldn't think the term is appropriate. The fact that this is a fantasy romance where the writers are spinning a story, and if that story is about a relationship between two people where touching is dangerous or frowned down upon, that to me fits the term.

#12634
HolyJellyfish

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
I think Twilight has just sort of scarred me for life when it comes to the 'Do not touch me!' culminating in a almost-kiss-no-not-quite-we-can't-its-baaad romance....that brand of romantic story telling sends all the wrong messages and isn't tasteful to me.


Twilight and Upsettingshorts hypothetical Fenris romance send totally different messages, namely that in the former the weirdly scarred strange one is the guy holding back for dangerous and selfish reasons, and in the latter the person holding back is doing so out of respect and understanding.


Mmm. This is a good point.

The hypothetic no-touchy romance still makes me nervous, because of how its been played in the past, but I see where you are coming from.

#12635
upsettingshorts

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HolyJellyfish wrote...

I've explained myself in the post above. But again, what it comes down to is that I'd prefer to see a therapeutic relationship as opposed to a distant scarred one that, to be, really is borderline abstinence porn.


And if Fenris opens up to intimacy by the end of the story, that's not therapeutic?  At no point do I imply that the hypothetical romance I describe excludes eventual recovery, only that it ought to take a while.

Believe me, I'm definitely not trying to say sex is wrong.  If anything I'm trying to say that torture and slavery is wrong.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:56 .


#12636
Leonia

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Sex is good. Torture is bad.



Let's not mix them up.

#12637
mellifera

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I've explained myself in the post above. But again, what it comes down to is that I'd prefer to see a therapeutic relationship as opposed to a distant scarred one that, to be, really is borderline abstinence porn.


And if Fenris opens up to intimacy by the end of the story, that's not therapeutic?  At no point do I imply that the hypothetical romance I describe excludes eventual recovery, only that it ought to take a while.

Believe me, I'm definitely not trying to say sex is wrong.  If anything I'm trying to say that torture and slavery is wrong.


And that it takes time for people to get over such deep psychological and physical scarring. We don't know how Fenris handles it in particular, but it's not something that is so easily brushed off. I don't find it distant or scarred if after years of being haunted by something so awful he finally manages to open up enough to let someone in. Who knows how long it'll take him? If the climax of the relationship is shown in this way as opposed to the regular Enya-music cheesy sex, it might actually be really sweet and truly moving.

Modifié par yukidama, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:10 .


#12638
Leonia

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Hey I happen to like Enya-music cheesy sex.. just not for Fenris.

#12639
Never

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^
edit: Err, agree with Yuki, not the Enya sex.

Modifié par mynameisdanza, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:14 .


#12640
Pseudo the Mustachioed

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I do like the sound of spending all those years setting up a foundation of trust, a meaningful and valuable friendship, and the last bit of interaction with him might be suggesting a romantic relationship perhaps once the Big Bad or whoever is dealt with. No romance scene, just a, 'you know, we've been through a lot, you get me, I get you, we obviously don't hate each other, let's go a little further and see what happens.'

Kind of like Sten, but not, and with a nice open-endedness so the player can mentally continue the story how they please, be it romance or friendship or what have you.

I say the guy can and should take all ten years to work it out. Assuming he has residual issues to work out.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:40 .


#12641
upsettingshorts

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Love the idea, pseudo. 

It would certainly qualify as different than previous BioWare romances, and be good for it, too.

#12642
Cutlasskiwi

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Upsettingshorts wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I've explained myself in the post above. But again, what it comes down to is that I'd prefer to see a therapeutic relationship as opposed to a distant scarred one that, to be, really is borderline abstinence porn.


And if Fenris opens up to intimacy by the end of the story, that's not therapeutic?  At no point do I imply that the hypothetical romance I describe excludes eventual recovery, only that it ought to take a while.

Believe me, I'm definitely not trying to say sex is wrong.  If anything I'm trying to say that torture and slavery is wrong.


Even if he isn't a LI I think it would be interesting to see a friendship grow over the years. I know very little about Fenris but I'm guessing that he might have some problem trusting people. 

What I want to know  is "which kind" of stoic David meant. 

#12643
upsettingshorts

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Yellow Words wrote...

What I want to know  is "which kind" of stoic David meant.


Indeed.

#12644
ankuu

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Congrats on the 500 pages kids! Of course i missed another '00 ><

#12645
Ramante

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Congratz with 500 pages guys. ^^

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#12646
Most Definitely Sane

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Aw, dang. I missed a good conversation.

But yeah, I agree with everyone about the touching.

#12647
Wynne

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Geez, 500 pages! Wish I could've been there for our half-thousand mark.

Irrelevant side comment: Tomorrow, I have both an oral exam (in Dutch) and a dental appointment on the same day. :blink: Yeah, kinda weird. Well, really, I guess I could call them both oral exams, couldn't I?

[quote]SteamPunks wrote...

[quote]Most Definitely Sane wrote...

I don't know what you me--Oh.[/quote]

You can't possibly understand how much I need an icon with "suggestive" eyebrows right now. EDIT: [smilie]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5306/naughty17hs.gif[/smilie][/quote] :lol: That's a nice find! 

[quote]SteamPunks wrote...

When I first heard Feron speak I melted into a puddle of goo. OM NOM.[/quote] Mmm, yeah. I loved him in the comic already, but listening to him talk was quite a pleasure.

I feel traitorous, but I would give up Thane for him in a heartbeat.

*watches video* Mmm... Thane who? *mingled guilt and delight*

[quote]GodWood wrote...
[quote]Maria Caliban wrote...
[quote]GodWood wrote...
I thought elves could only grow hair on their head[/quote]
It's possible. I hope that's not the case though. [/quote]Why is
that?[/quote] Because she wants the elven women to have... ah, how do I put this delicately? A bit of fuzz on the peach, no?

[quote]Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Yup. Sounds exactly like FemShep.
That's the only thing I didn't like about the character creation( besides some of the bad skintones.)
If my character is fighting creatures with blades and/or sharp teeth, my character should at least have one scar![/quote] I feel so dorky, but I just love knowing that at least one person imagines my voice as Jennifer Hale at her most awesome. I get a kick out of that. :D

About the scars again--hell yeah! Hawke isn't some fluffy-duffy noble lady sitting in a cloistered tower. Darkspawn hit hard. I don't believe in all that "beauty is never tarnished" stuff. I like my heroines looking a little rougher. It can even accentuate a character's beauty if there's something imperfect about the other aspects of her face. I mean, it works for Witcher 2's Iorveth, IMO.

I always picked scars for my Shepards in ME1. They really do add character; you can make up a story for each one depending on its shape. I've got a scar on my chin where I had stitches as a little girl--I still remember exactly how I got it despite how young I was. A scar is a memory; even more so when it's on your face. If you could both have a scar and have a bit of dialogue with somebody about it, I think I would literally fall off my chair with joy.

[quote]Jaarlitar wrote...

Here's a piece I wrote at work today. It is not a result of a prompt, just a random thing, Wasn't sure if I should post it here since it is longer than a few paragraphs. But here you go.[/quote] That was really quite good. I liked it. :)

[quote]MagneticDawn wrote...

@Sane I know I know.. but Odd fact: Gaider always seems to catch me at my craziest.. Y_Y "I'M THE CRAZIEST!" He posts after I said that "I HAVE HIS SUMMONING HORN!" he posts, "AH HELL NO DON'T DIE ON ME FENRIS!" he posts... etc.. etc..

Y__Y
Shammeeeeee[/quote] *incredibly sympathetic hugs* When he replies to something I said, it's usually when I was tired from studying all day, and thus is one of the few things I truly wished I had thought through more carefully and worded better. 

For the record, though, I'm sure he thinks your wackiness is cute. I do. :) Heh... random thought, but did you see Juno? "IIIII am a KRAKEN  FROM THE SEA!" People love quirky people because quirky people are fun.

[quote]ceruleancrescent wrote...

[quote]Dr. Doctor wrote...

I'd wonder if Fenris will have an affectionate nickname for Hawke that means something in Arcanum (Tevinter language)[/quote]
I hope so [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie] I loved it in ME2 when Thane called Shepard 'Siha'...it really just added a whole new level of intimacy between the characters[/quote] I loved it, too. Until I really started to think about him saying you were the second siha he'd known. I mean, it's beautiful and all... but it did bug me a bit that it wasn't specific to Shepard. Just brought back that little doubt in my heart, like when he assumes "I can't replace your wife" somehow translates to "I want to break up with you."

I would really dig Fenris having a pet name for Hawke, as long as it isn't something he called someone else before.

[quote]Dhiro wrote...

I think you're reading too much on it.
Leliana was the 'innocent, virginal, sweet girl' of DA: O and she could
be as bad as Morrigan with enough motivation.[/quote] Glad you said that. I assume the same; "virginal" especially when prefaced by the phrase "sort of" doesn't necessarily mean "actual, literal virgin." It may even just mean asexual. *giggles as she thinks of Sheldon and Amy Farrah Fowler* Maybe she's more like Mordin than anybody else.

"I'm flattered, Hawke, but really, I don't have time for copulation right now; I have so many experiments to do with these herbs and this doe blood! *sweet smile*"

I would love it if Merrill were as creepy as she is cute, actually, sort of like Abby from NCIS. It would cause a lot of surprise, no doubt.

[quote]SchwazerLoth wrote...

How do you think Carver and Bethany will interact with everyone else, seeing as they're kinda interchangeable?
[/quote] I'm hoping that they are as they seem--truly different people. And I think that they will be. As Warrior/Rogue Hawke, I think you will be the one required to sort of protect Bethany from the forces that want to take her away from you, and so you'll either be doing it because you love her and feel protective or because "nobody picks on my little sister but me." As mage Hawke, Carver is the one who would have to sort of protect you, and I think that being close to him will make it an act of love, and being antagonistic will be essentially the same as Warrior/Rogue Hawke--"nobody messes with my sister except for me."  That would add a good bit of replay value by itself.

[quote]Dhiro wrote...

Hm, that's a possibility. It'll probably have a sex scene in the end, but maybe he'll be hesitant in accept the, ah, advances of Hawke? :<[/quote] I would be fine with that. I don't like guys who are--well, sletterig. (That means pretty much what it sounds like.) I much prefer the type who regards sex as meaning something, for whatever reason. I don't mind working for my reward; the dance is more fun that way. (Is it my imagination, or do I sound a bit like Zevran there?) But in the end, I would be very disappointed if there was never *any* contact.

About the S/S thing--I know a guy who had a habit of reliving abuse that he'd suffered, which was tragic to hear about but it was his way of dealing with it. But personally, if I'd been enslaved, it would be extremely important to me--at least in the beginning--to be in complete control of the situation. Anything else would put me back in the state of feeling enraged, helpless, etc. I think since Fenris is the determined type, who is said to have an instinct to hit anybody who touches him, that he'd not want to lose control of the situation. Maybe that would change if he trusted the person enough, I'm not sure.

[quote]yoshibb wrote...

I liked how DA:O was working until the end. For instance, here's Alistair going on and on about how he loves me and would never hurt me and you know, all the romantic stuff. Then we get to the Landsmeet and it doesn't seem like the relationship is anything more than a crush. There's no trying to make things work, there's no trust in said loved one, there's no chance for any sort of reasoning. I mean if it were really that special of a relationship wouldn't you at least suggest ways to make things work out?

It just irked me. I think I got more pain from Alistair when I told him I was interested in someone else.
 I'm hoping now with ten years to work with it's an actual deep connection.
...something that just doesn't focus on the happy first year of new love would be nice.  [/quote] I agree with this so very much. I mean, I guess in the end they were pressed for time or there were getting to be too many different possibilities for comfort, or maybe that's just Alistair's personality, but it really did dismay me no end. I wanted to say, "but Alistair, I'm a criminal too! I was once a thug, I didn't feel I had a choice any more than Loghain did! And more important than anything else is, this is what Duncan would've wanted. He believed in the Wardens. This isn't some noble honor bestowed on shining champions; it's a death sentence that requires heroism. And it's a fitting punishment for a man who tried to destroy us, that he is conscripted to our cause."

I know that's long, but it could've been broken down to, "This is what Duncan would have wanted, and it's the best thing for the Wardens. Isn't honoring Duncan and the Wardens more important than your personal pride?" Couldn't they have just had Loghain stay in the dungeon with Anora in charge if you did this? And even barring that, I do wish that Alistair had eventually just relented in the epilogue rather than bury himself in alcohol forever.

But that is precisely why I was so happy with their decisions for DA2. I vastly prefer the authenticity and even the potential tragedy of a decade of relationship to a whirlwind romance in the trenches.

Modifié par Wynne, 26 janvier 2011 - 12:42 .


#12648
Most Definitely Sane

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Wynne wrote...

Geez, 500 pages! Wish I could've been there for our half-thousand mark.

Irrelevant side comment: Tomorrow, I have both an oral exam (in Dutch) and a dental appointment on the same day. :blink: Yeah, kinda weird. Well, really, I guess I could call them both oral exams, couldn't I?


Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Yup. Sounds exactly like FemShep.
That's the only thing I didn't like about the character creation( besides some of the bad skintones.)
If my character is fighting creatures with blades and/or sharp teeth, my character should at least have one scar!

I feel so dorky, but I just love knowing that at least one person imagines my voice as Jennifer Hale at her most awesome. I get a kick out of that. :D

About the scars again--hell yeah! Hawke isn't some fluffy-duffy noble lady sitting in a cloistered tower. Darkspawn hit hard. I don't believe in all that "beauty is never tarnished" stuff. I like my heroines looking a little rougher. It can even accentuate a character's beauty if there's something imperfect about the other aspects of her face. I mean, it works for Witcher 2's Iorveth, IMO.

I always picked scars for my Shepards in ME1. They really do add character; you can make up a story for each one depending on its shape. I've got a scar on my chin where I had stitches as a little girl--I still remember exactly how I got it despite how young I was. A scar is a memory; even more so when it's on your face. If you could both have a scar and have a bit of dialogue with somebody about it, I think I would literally fall off my chair with joy.

 I must say, Wynne, you're great with long posts.
What do you mean by most awesome? She's always incredibly awesome.
I liked to pretend that my Shep got a scar when she fell off her bike and into a pit of sharp things. Thinking it wasn't badass, she made up a lie and said she got it with her other scars on Torfan.
About your oral exams, good luck!

Modifié par Most Definitely Sane, 26 janvier 2011 - 12:52 .


#12649
TRISTAN WERBE

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damn me

#12650
thebunia

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 Any news?

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Modifié par thebunia, 26 janvier 2011 - 02:03 .