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[fighterchick]

. I'm the one advocating for a Varric LI and an Aveline LI, after all, both of which seem lost causes by now. 

Out of curiosity, what makes you say that?  I don't stray to those threads too much.  

[Calla S]

Evelane wrote...
If i can say soemthing about fenris as a ''Li'' i would say that i think it could be great...
Since it will be hard to break his fence...
Actually i dont see myself with varric ... not that he dosent look like a really awsome companions and narrator.. but in a way.. that its why i think he wont be a ''li'' but more as a really really close friend
I think that the ''exiled prince'' and fenris will be female ''li'' and Cassandra isabella for boys or merril.. but she look like a kid.. so :/

Ps:im gonna appologize again for my poor english

Considering Sebastian is DLC, I sincerely doubt he's an LI. No, strike that, I really, REALLY don't think he's an LI. It'd be beyond ridiculous to make people pay for one of the female love interests. If he is something of an LI, it'll be a few flirty options and very little else. They wouldn't use him as a full romance. I'm not even going to touch on the Varric mindset, as this is the Fenris thread and it'll likely lead directly into me protecting my standpoint that he'd make an excellent LI.

fighterchicks wrote...

. I'm the one advocating for a Varric LI and an Aveline LI, after all, both of which seem lost causes by now.

Out of curiosity, what makes you say that?  I don't stray to those threads too much.  

As it stands, Aveline is more likely a male LI than Varric is a female one. Why? Because people can't look past their prejudices and romance a dwarf. There quite literally is no other reason. I've often said that if Varric was an elf or a human, people would be hoping and wishing and jumping up and down for an opportunity to romance him. As it stands, that hasn't happened. 'Cause he's a dwarf. 

With Aveline, it's because of Isabela and Merrill, who seem the more likely LIs.

Modifié par Calla S, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:16 .

[Maria Caliban]

Ramante wrote...

Did the Magister try to put it in his veins? Looks more like it is just under his skin and not in his veins.

@Steam, depends on the poison (I followed a toxicology class 2 years ago). If given to a person in low amounts during a regular interval they can become resistant/immune.. so it wouldn't surprise me if Fenris was first exposed to lyrium in his surrounding/on his skin before it was actually injected into his body.

Dwarves are the only race naturally resistant to raw lyrium, and even trace amounts in a wound can cause brain damage. However, mages and templars are able to drink lyrium potions will little negative effect (save for addiction.)

I assume what's in his body is processed lyrium and no longer toxic. Though I'm sure the magisters managed to go through a large number of test subjects before they found a non-lethal process.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the "tattoos" are a side effect, not the actual enchantment.  But who knows?

I believe the brands are the means, not a side effect. The enchantment is that he's stronger/faster than before.

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

So...quick, name one thing you don't want Fenris to be.

"wisecracking"

Russalka wrote...

I do wonder if him not being available for romance would rectify that problem.

Alistiar is the only male NPC that's I've ever considered romancing. Fenris looks like fangirl bait and some of those fangirls are a bit much, but if I manage to have more than one completed playthrough this time, one of my PCs will likely swap bodily fluids with him.

Edit: That reminds me of alternate future Spider-Man where Mary Jane dies of cancer because all of Peter's fluids are radioactive.

That would be an interesting epilogue: Romance Fenris and die of a strange, wasting sickness.

Maybe he'll come back in DA 3 broodier and more tormented. Your PC could romance him and he'd constantly talk about how you remind him of the former love of his life, the Champion of Kirkwall.

[fighterchick]

That would be an interesting epilogue: Romance Fenris and die of a strange, wasting sickness.

Maybe he'll come back in DA 3 broodier and more tormented. Your PC could romance him and he'd constantly talk about how you remind him of the former love of his life, the Champion of Kirkwall.

Even though that's really morbid, that just made me laugh.  

[MorningBird]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Edit: That reminds me of alternate future Spider-Man where Mary Jane dies of cancer because all of Peter's fluids are radioactive.

That would be an interesting epilogue: Romance Fenris and die of a strange, wasting sickness.

Maybe he'll come back in DA 3 broodier and more tormented. Your PC could romance him and he'd constantly talk about how you remind him of the former love of his life, the Champion of Kirkwall.

... Is... is it wrong that I actually see this as an intriguing idea? D:

[lonewolfxxx]

MorningBird wrote...

lonewolfxxx wrote...

... Not drawing fan art is becoming extremely difficult.

Must... resist... must... stay... lazy...

I'd say resistance is futile, but I'll be an optimist, for your sake. :innocent:

Thank you my friend. Would you care to join me with sitting on this couch whilst eating an impossible amount of potato chips and watching television?

But I might have something in store later. I'm not going to make any promises.

[Maria Caliban]

Calla S wrote...

If he has so many issues (most, if not all, of which stem from his time with the Magister) and doesn't even want to touch upon them, I don't see how he'd make a very viable potential love interest, then. That'd make him a ticking time bomb, pretty much. There's a difference between just being plain screwed up and being a woobie.

I'm not sure how someone who deals with their issues on their own is a ticking time bomb.

Yes, he might talk about them with Lady Hawke, but you said have her fix them. To me, having a lover fix one's emotional issues is the plot of a bad romance novel.

I think Hawke might help Fenris recover his memories, however.

[MorningBird]

lonewolfxxx wrote...

Thank you my friend. Would you care to join me with sitting on this couch whilst eating an impossible amount of potato chips and watching television?

But I might have something in store later. I'm not going to make any promises.

Certainly!  You know, provided you don't mind the fact that I've already succumbed to the dark side and drawn a shameful amount of fanart for a game that hasn't been released yet. :innocent:

In other news, you fight that urge! *tries to be encouraging*

[Calla S]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm not sure how someone who deals with their issues on their own is a ticking time bomb.

Yes, he might talk about them with Lady Hawke, but you said have her fix them. To me, having a lover fix one's emotional issues is the plot of a bad romance novel.

I think Hawke might help Fenris recover his memories, however.

I personally meant someone who doesn't confront their issues at all. It's very unlikely - especially in a video game like this one - for someone to conquer their issues entirely by themselves. We spent almost the entirety of ME2 fixing everyone's problems; it's more of a way to enhance characterization and a gameplay thing than anything else. I wouldn't want Fenris to, after a time jump, walk up to Hawke like, "Oh, that Magister thing? The I-don't-want-to-talk-about-it, it's-a-sore-spot thing? I fixed that. I'm fine now. Wanna do it?"

[Maria Caliban]

Calla S wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm not sure how someone who deals with their issues on their own is a ticking time bomb.

Yes, he might talk about them with Lady Hawke, but you said have her fix them. To me, having a lover fix one's emotional issues is the plot of a bad romance novel.

I think Hawke might help Fenris recover his memories, however.

I personally meant someone who doesn't confront their issues at all. It's very unlikely - especially in a video game like this one - for someone to conquer their issues entirely by themselves. We spent almost the entirety of ME2 fixing everyone's problems; it's more of a way to enhance characterization and a gameplay thing than anything else. I wouldn't want Fenris to, after a time jump, walk up to Hawke like, "Oh, that Magister thing? The I-don't-want-to-talk-about-it, it's-a-sore-spot thing? I fixed that. I'm fine now. Wanna do it?"

Or, they could just have sex without him mentioning his issues?

Again, you seem to be dragging this entire 'I heal him with my love!' narrative behind you. You can have a relationship with someone who has problems without that being the focal point of the relationship.

[Calla S]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Calla S wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I'm not sure how someone who deals with their issues on their own is a ticking time bomb.

Yes, he might talk about them with Lady Hawke, but you said have her fix them. To me, having a lover fix one's emotional issues is the plot of a bad romance novel.

I think Hawke might help Fenris recover his memories, however.

I personally meant someone who doesn't confront their issues at all. It's very unlikely - especially in a video game like this one - for someone to conquer their issues entirely by themselves. We spent almost the entirety of ME2 fixing everyone's problems; it's more of a way to enhance characterization and a gameplay thing than anything else. I wouldn't want Fenris to, after a time jump, walk up to Hawke like, "Oh, that Magister thing? The I-don't-want-to-talk-about-it, it's-a-sore-spot thing? I fixed that. I'm fine now. Wanna do it?"

Or, they could just have sex without him mentioning his issues?

Again, you seem to be dragging this entire 'I heal him with my love!' narrative behind you. You can have a relationship with someone who has problems without that being the focal point of the relationship.

And you seem to forgetting this is a video game, where everyone's problems are pulled to the forefront and you're forced to solve them. I'm only saying that it's inevitable we'll have to deal with them. If this was a novel or a movie, I would buy into the whole "we don't actually have to fix him" thing, but quests are required and everyone's problems are either healed or agitated by the end of the game.

[Tamyn]

Maybe Fenris' personal quest is about dealing with external issues rather than internal ones, i.e. killing the magister and minions that are coming after him.

[Calla S]

Gaider and a few other developers have commented on how each character has more than one personal quest. Also, I highly doubt that killing the Magister would have no emotional repercussions for Fenris.

[MorningBird]

Calla S wrote...

Gaider and a few other developers have commented on how each character has more than one personal quest. Also, I highly doubt that killing the Magister would have no emotional repercussions for Fenris.

While it has been confirmed that each character will get more than one personal quest, I thought they were optional?  I don't fully remember, but weren't some side-quests in DA:O completely avoidable?  For example, you don't have to agree to meet Goldanna or Marjorlaine if you don't want to?  Or am I wrong?  This is a serious question, because I like to... complete things, and have never actually TRIED to skip them. xD

My point being, I wonder what Fenris would do if Hawke say... didn't interact with him outside of combat?  Would he be forced to solve his issues on his own, woud the other party members try to help him through them, or would he stay unchanged?

Modifié par MorningBird, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:56 .

[Reinara]

Delurking again to add my two cents but if a character has trauma or issues, they could've come to accept it long before the start of the game. And they might even talk about it with the PC in ordering to share thoughts/experience/bonding and stuff but it doesn't mean the PC would have to "fix" them. And IMO if Mr.Gaider's comments about him being the only character without battle shouts but only meditation phrases or slight tevinter curses in combat is any indication, he's probably quite a zen character and he probably could've made peace with stuff before the game, and, if you interact/grow close to him whether as a friend or LI, he could share stuff about him only to help provide insight. This has been done in other role playing games before (though they're JRPGs and idk if anyone here plays them) and personally I thought that they were done pretty well.



Of course I'm not saying that the PC shouldn't do anything at all, since otherwise it would be weird when they're the supposed significant other, I don't think that a romance necessarily has to be all about "fixing" someone or loving someone because they "fixed" you.



Besides DA2 isn't even out yet, for all we know, our opinions might be changed for good or bad depending on how the hypothetical romance eventually plays out when we actually get to play the game. I know I personally hated Ashley's guts in Mass Effect1 but then I actually played her romance and now I love her lots. And an example in DA:O, I thought Leliana was craycray and avoided her like the plague, even when she was in my team, but I started talking to/befriending her and I thought that friendship side was much more rewarding than the romance. Same goes for Morrigan even though I liked her from the start.

[Tamyn]

Reinara wrote...
 And IMO if Mr.Gaider's comments about him being the only character without battle shouts but only meditation phrases or slight tevinter curses in combat is any indication, he's probably quite a zen character and he probably could've made peace with stuff before the game, and, if you interact/grow close to him whether as a friend or LI, he could share stuff about him only to help provide insight. This has been done in other role playing games before (though they're JRPGs and idk if anyone here plays them) and personally I thought that they were done pretty well. 

Come to think of it, his quote on the character page seems pretty zen. "They know what I am. Let them come," or whatever he says. He seems calm about the whole thing.

[obsessedwjpn]

I have to agree with Calla S. Even in real life, you have to deal with someone's problems somewhere along the line or the relationship is going to have a lot of issues. I mean of course they aren't the focal point of the relationship but if you are together long enough it would only make sense that you would want to work together to solve something. Love doesn't solve everything, of course, but it is natural for two people who are in love and together a long time to want to enrich each other's lives and confront scars.

Besides, from my experience, love is a very powerful thing and does change a lot in someone's life. I feel like I have been saved by love, not just from a boyfriend, but my parents a few times in my life.

I would hope that Fenris could seek salvation through the companionship of everyone and the love/friendship of Hawke. It makes the character deeper in my opinion.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:50 .

[tankgirly]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

I have to agree with Calla S. Even in real life, you have to deal with someone's problems somewhere along the line or the relationship is going to have a lot of issues. I mean of course they aren't the focal point of the relationship but if you are together long enough it would only make sense that you would want to work together to solve something. Love doesn't solve everything, of course, but it is natural for two people who are in love and together a long time to want to enrich each other's lives and confront scars.

Besides, from my experience, love is a very powerful thing and does change a lot in someone's life. I feel like I have been saved by love, not just from a boyfriend, but my parents a few times in my life.

I would hope that Fenris could seek salvation through the companionship of everyone and the love/friendship of Hawke.

Mind you, the whole event in DA II span over 10 years......

[obsessedwjpn]

tankgirly wrote...

Mind you, the whole event in DA II span over 10 years......

So what does that mean? I am not saying the salvation should take 10 years to occur or anything but within that time period it would make sense for some kind of overcoming process to occur. Part of what defines a character are their flaws and hardships: if Fenris is just over his past and never confronts it in the game, and somehow that happens before you meet him or off screen, I think that would take a lot away from the character.

Modifié par obsessedwjpn, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:57 .

[tankgirly]

obsessedwjpn wrote...

tankgirly wrote...

Mind you, the whole event in DA II span over 10 years......

So what does that mean? I am not saying the salvation should take 10 years to occur or anything but within that time period it would make sense for some kind of overcoming process to occur. Part of what defines a character are their flaws and hardships: if Fenris is just over his past and never confronts it in the game, and somehow that happens before you meet him or off screen, I think that would take a lot away from the character.

I was commenting of something you said, about things takes time to overcome, romance or not.
Personally I would prefer one, but that was just fangirl talking.

*Is very childish/inmature*

[thebunia]

Tamyn wrote...

Come to think of it, his quote on the character page seems pretty zen. "They know what I am. Let them come," or whatever he says. He seems calm about the whole thing.

Maybe he is calm because of his stoic nature? 

[Ramante]

MorningBird wrote...

Calla S wrote...

Gaider and a few other developers have commented on how each character has more than one personal quest. Also, I highly doubt that killing the Magister would have no emotional repercussions for Fenris.

While it has been confirmed that each character will get more than one personal quest, I thought they were optional?  I don't fully remember, but weren't some side-quests in DA:O completely avoidable?  For example, you don't have to agree to meet Goldanna or Marjorlaine if you don't want to?  Or am I wrong?  This is a serious question, because I like to... complete things, and have never actually TRIED to skip them. xD

In Origins you only get the personal quest after reaching a certain level of approvement. My Dalish rogue for example never got Alistair's personal quest because his approval never reached the needed level (his approval was negative the entire game).
Since you don't get approval points in DA2 (but friendship/rivalry points) I think the personal quests are also treated differently, maybe they get triggered by certain events and the relationship with Hawke makes no difference.

[lonewolfxxx]

Well... here you go I guess.

I relented and made something. And I need sleep badly... (6:43 AM)

[tankgirly]

lonewolfxxx wrote...

Well... here you go I guess.

I relented and made something. And I need sleep badly... (6:43 AM)

Nice. :wub:

[upsettingshorts]

Ramante wrote...
In Origins you only get the personal quest after reaching a certain level of approvement. My Dalish rogue for example never got Alistair's personal quest because his approval never reached the needed level (his approval was negative the entire game).
Since you don't get approval points in DA2 (but friendship/rivalry points) I think the personal quests are also treated differently, maybe they get triggered by certain events and the relationship with Hawke makes no difference.

In this thread David Gaider confirms that companion personal quests are no longer tied to approval.  It's also the best description of how Friend/Rivalry will work so far posted.

I don't have the exact post addressing the issue bookmarked, but developer comments continue for a few pages from that point.