55380 réponses à ce sujet

[EmilyKate]

Hi everyone! I did a painting of Fenris... I wanted to post it as an image but I have no idea how to, so I'll just give the web address:



http://minijuuku.dev...enris-195075195

[lonewolfxxx]

EmilyKate wrote...

Hi everyone! I did a painting of Fenris... I wanted to post it as an image but I have no idea how to, so I'll just give the web address:

http://minijuuku.dev...enris-195075195

I really need to get a photoshop.

It's beautifully done and quite accurate. Great job! 

[Ramante]

You need to put the webadres of the picture between [ img] link [ /img]
Fixed it for you. =3


And I like it. ^^

@upsettingshorts, thanks I didn't know that. ^^
@lonewolff, nice picture.

Modifié par Ramante, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:10 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Wonderful stuff, EmilyKate!

[EmilyKate]

@Ramante Thanks! I couldn't even figure that out haha

@ lonewolfxxx Your picture looks great too . Photoshop can be quite expensive though.

[lonewolfxxx]

EmilyKate wrote...

@Ramante Thanks! I couldn't even figure that out haha
@ lonewolfxxx Your picture looks great too . Photoshop can be quite expensive though.

Not unless you have... The right connections... -coughs-

But my connection is just as lazy as I am, so it'll take awhile.

[Denvian]

Little shout out to Gaider for putting up with this thread for 500+ pages! It certainly shows me that you put a lot into this character and I look forward to learning all about his real story once DA 2 hits.

[Dubya75]

Ramante wrote...

You need to put the webadres of the picture between [ img] link [ /img]
Fixed it for you. =3


And I like it. ^^

@upsettingshorts, thanks I didn't know that. ^^
@lonewolff, nice picture.

Very nice indeed!

[_Aine_]

Tamyn wrote...
 
Come to think of it, his quote on the character page seems pretty zen. "They know what I am. Let them come," or whatever he says. He seems calm about the whole thing.

This is what makes him seem interesting to me, well, from this vantage point of distance I have at the moment where most of what we think is conjecture anyway....

Not everyone who is victimized feels like a victim.  Some of them, honestly even, don't blame themselves.  They may be bitter, they may have anger to deal with, but sometimes they just never blame themselves and *can* look externally and say,  " What was done to me, does not define who I am."   From that quote alone at least, he seems.... at peace is the wrong phrase perhaps...but at least resigned to accepting what and who he is.  Peacefully resigned? Perhaps not. lol   

I really hope they make him multi-dimensional.  He is a warrior after all, and to be a warrior at some point you would have to channel your emotions ( good and bad) into fuel for your rage to do what you need to do.  Or drink heavily.     Whichever.     He may not be sad or feeling like he needs "healing" at all. He may have to expend his rage to let go, he may need to confront a past to let go and move forward, or maybe they even have an altogether new idea for us to explore with him, who knows. Can't wait to find out though  

[RosaAquafire]

I personally think that I would find it disappointing to not solve Fenris's problems. Why? Because it's a game, and the only way that we're going to visibly see his character go through the process of development is if we're holding his hand through it. Which is regrettable, but it's that or have him not really develop, or to develop mostly offscreen.

The medium will develop beyond that, but right now, the only way to explore anything in a game is to have the player, and thus the player character, be the one exploring.

[FaeTian]

I'm gonna delurk here for a sec to comment briefly on the whole 'romance might detract from Fenris's character' discussion.

The same thing could be said about any of the companions at this point. Really, we know next to nothing about them. Personally, I've never thought romance detracted from anyone's character in the first place. If anything it adds more to their character. 

Modifié par FaeTian, 27 janvier 2011 - 03:16 .

[Drima]

Out of actuall subject, but do you think Fenris would recitate poetry or hum some songs on the road? It just occured to me that Valen Shadowbreath was and that would be sooooo awesome...

[pink_alora]

Calla S wrote...

No, but I believe the addition of a romance could potentially detract from Fenris as a character, should his story and personality be anything like we're assuming.

@Minxie - I'm unaware of how a former slave who was tortured to such an extent and doesn't even like people touching him could be well-adjusted enough to not have any lingering issues for Hawke to fix. I just think the relationship between Hawke and Fenris would be infinitely more meaningful if it didn't include his being a love interest, mainly because friendships with LIs are hardly ever as in depth as those who aren't love interests. I suppose this is my way of saying, "I'd rather it if he wasn't an LI so we can know more about him without having to romance him."

I have to disagree with you there..
I dont think the way Bioware designs their romances you might feel a need to pursue one with a certain character just so you can get to know them. For something that is an option it would be worng of Bioware to make players feel they are compelled to use it cause they are in danger of missing out on a certain characters growth..

You raised earlier the case of Morrigan that you only really got to know her when you pursued a relationship with her for me it was the other way round.  When you actually invest the time to talk and to get to know your various party members be it their motives or background you are always rewarded even with the friendship path that also applied with Morrigan, by just talking to her and throwing in a gift or two and talking some more of course you discover there is more to her and the dialogue that you get when she tries to explain  how surprised she is that she never expected to find a friend in the Warden when she first joined the party is both endearing and touching..

The whole idea though that a Fenris romance would be a "fix" situation I also disagree with..
I remembered Jack from ME 2 when I read those type of comments although its different writers she was broken in soo many ways but the main goal wasnt to "fix" her when pursuing a friendship or relationship, for me it was just to show her that people dont have to have an ulterior motive when they want to help or get to know you it could simply mean they just care..
Even with the quests you do for your companions or your LI it is like real relationshiops in a way that you would want to help the people you care about if they needed your help or assistance. Sometimes you dont even have to care about them if you are part of a team at work or school and you knew by helping one of your collegues with a certain task would increase productivity the same would apply to your party by helping a companion you could get some sort of bonus in combat if friendship is not your thing, then again those quests are something you can choose to do.

Romance to me is very important when it comes to a Bioware game cause they create these characters that you cant help but care about wether you love or hate them they will always invoke some sort of emotion from you.
Exploring a romance with a certan character gives me that option to express my care and appreacition of them and I hope when DA 2 comes out I will get a chance to explore that path with Fenris..
As of late Ive gotten the feeling while reading this thread that being labeled a fan girl is something negative, if feeling for a certain character soo strongly that you want to know  them more and romance the hell out of them
 is wrong then I never want to be right...

Now I must rest my poor fingers cause it is a lot of hardwork hitting the keyboard so I can type out a whole chapter..*sigh*


P.S. Calla currently reading your fanfic The Beacon Im on Chapter 7, I LOVE it to bits and the way you potray Cailan as a flawed man who is still swoon worthy  has me wondering if he will ever end up with the Warden, Im really tempted to skip to the epilogue..

[Dr. Doctor]

Alright, new prompt time:

Fade:

(After noticing Fenris tossing and turning in his sleep Hawke heads into the Fade to see what's going on in his dreams)

Hawke: (Sees Fenris surrounded by Fade spirits) Maker's breath Fen, what have you been dreaming of?

Fenris: (yawns) Nothing in particular.

Hawke: Then why are you getting swarmed by spirits? (pushes aside a spirit that looks like a giant panda)

Fenris: Its this thing that they do. They apparently like lyrium, and I'm well, covered in it, so most nights they flock to me like bears to honey.

Hawke: And this doesn't bother you?

Fenris: (sighs) It isn't the most enjoyable thing in the world, but I've had worse things happen to me than being surrounded by spirits. By the way, what are you doing here?

Hawke: Well you were thrashing about in your sleep, I thought something was wrong. (notices Fenris looks like he is about to speak) I know that you can take care of yourself, but you know me, always in your business.

Fenris: I'm sorry if I woke you.

Hawke: (sighs) I'm fine Fen, as long as you're alright.

Fenris: (hugs Hawke) I am unharmed my dear, but for now let us get out of this place before the spirits start to get restless.

(Hawke and Fenris disappear from the Fade)

[bsbcaer]

MagneticDawn wrote...

Chagrinned Goat wrote...

MagneticDawn wrote...
Gaider Quotes on fenris' personality.. you find them!(?)

Here.

What is this..?! The keys to the kingdom?! OH SH***! Must.read.NOA! +____+ How the heck do you pull these out?!

Hmmm as for Fenris looking like a JRPG.. I kinda agree, but like mama always says, don't jugde a book by its cover! We'll have to wait until march to find that out.. ;D

As I mentioned in a previous post, all you need to do is click the blue bioware thing immediately below the thread title (on the main forum page) and it will pull up only the dev posts for this thread...

[Addai]

Calla S wrote...
From what I've seen from other BioWare games, if you play the same sex of an LI (if she or he's not the S/S LI) or if you don't choose to romance the person with the option to do so, the character development just... isn't there. Most people get their development solely through the romances or through friendship paths. For instance, I thought I knew more about Wynne and Sten and Oghren than I did about Morrigan in my first run through of Origins. She was just a plot point to me. I didn't get to see much of her, especially not compared to the playthrough where I romanced her. I don't want to miss out on the characterization of Fenris just because I don't want to romance him.

It sounds like they are trying to address this by having a rivalry path be as "rich" as an approval path, though that isn't necessarily what you're saying.  I guess what I read here is that you're saying because you're not interested in how this character might be in a romantic storyline, no one should get to see that.  More harsh than you intend, surely, and as I said somewhere upthread, I do like a friendship story line as much or more than a romantic one sometimes.

But who's to say that's even possible?  The same issues that could prevent a character from wanting to open up romantically might apply to being best buds.  I thought Morrigan had some really nice angles as a female friend.  It would have been better if they'd left the Revelation scene, but it was still touching for her to realize she had a friend.

As far as "issues," dunno about anyone else but I always played my PCs as being as or more f'ed up as the NPCs.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 janvier 2011 - 04:51 .

[bsbcaer]

Addai67 wrote...

Calla S wrote...

No, but I believe the addition of a romance could potentially detract from Fenris as a character, should his story and personality be anything like we're assuming.

@Minxie - I'm unaware of how a former slave who was tortured to such an extent and doesn't even like people touching him could be well-adjusted enough to not have any lingering issues for Hawke to fix. I just think the relationship between Hawke and Fenris would be infinitely more meaningful if it didn't include his being a love interest, mainly because friendships with LIs are hardly ever as in depth as those who aren't love interests.

Who says you have to fix him?  I dunno, people can go through a lot of trauma but saying they're beyond love is a bit pessimistic.  I trust Ser Gaider to write a romance that's well grounded.  It's still just a story, though.  And it would be a shame if there were no possibility for the "once in a lifetime" to happen, even and especially for someone who's a survivor of harsh things.  I'd think that about someone IRL too. 

Just bolded that one part that Im commenting about there. It seems from my position that most of the people on this thread who want to have Fenris as a love interest have as a subtext (if they don't actually out and out say it) that they see "fixing him" as part of the progression within the romance...

[bsbcaer]

fighterchicks wrote...

Ugh, my post keeps messing up. What I was trying to say is that I just find the argument that the romance "isn't necessary" to be kind of funny. I figure that if the devs wrote him as such, then it will be well fleshed out and explained. The game does take place over ten years and that's a long time to develop any kind of relationship, whether romantic or otherwise. Also, I get that you're saying you think the relationship could be more meaningful if he wasn't an LI and just a friendship could be attained with him, but I thought that it was well done in origins with people who weren't LI. With Alistair and Leliana, the conversations were still there and intact for the most part, and you got different onces depending on whether it was romantic of just platonic. I think that they would develop the character both ways, especially if he turns out to be a LI.

Ah, I also wanted to add that we know very little about him as a character.  Who knows what exactly he's been through with his time as a magister, how much of it he actually remembers and how long he's been free.  It's just something to ponder that could change his characterization a bit.

It's been a while since I've played the original game, but I don't remember any of the romances in DA:O to be necessary to the plot.  I always thought that they were there for added colour/flavour/(semi) realism...

[ankuu]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Alright, new prompt time:

Fade:

(After noticing Fenris tossing and turning in his sleep Hawke heads into the Fade to see what's going on in his dreams)

Hawke: (Sees Fenris surrounded by Fade spirits) Maker's breath Fen, what have you been dreaming of?

Fenris: (yawns) Nothing in particular.

Hawke: Then why are you getting swarmed by spirits? (pushes aside a spirit that looks like a giant panda)

Fenris: Its this thing that they do. They apparently like lyrium, and I'm well, covered in it, so most nights they flock to me like bears to honey.

Hawke: And this doesn't bother you?

Fenris: (sighs) It isn't the most enjoyable thing in the world, but I've had worse things happen to me than being surrounded by spirits. By the way, what are you doing here?

Hawke: Well you were thrashing about in your sleep, I thought something was wrong. (notices Fenris looks like he is about to speak) I know that you can take care of yourself, but you know me, always in your business.

Fenris: I'm sorry if I woke you.

Hawke: (sighs) I'm fine Fen, as long as you're alright.

Fenris: (hugs Hawke) I am unharmed my dear, but for now let us get out of this place before the spirits start to get restless.

Awww a giant panda spirit! Cute! Where can i get one?

Modifié par ankuu, 27 janvier 2011 - 05:18 .

[bsbcaer]

MagneticDawn wrote...

... ......
-is done reading the dev quotes- .... ooohh.... So that's how how Fenris is... O.o It's hard to explain but I think I figured out his character, of coarse I could be wrong, but for now, I'm going to think its right until the game comes out. or a character video..
He is kinda based off Valen but not entirely off of him, his personality has a certain stoic angst edge on him.. His VA, for one has done acting in well-known games..
So hmmm...

So you jumped into the thread without reading any of the previous dev posts?

As for the bolded part...Please avoid the "A" word unless you explain that you're using it in a particular (rather than general) way because it doesn't go over well for some people (particularly me who have certain definition for the word.  Also, now you see why some of us were trying to figure out whether it's meant to be classical stoicism or the modern interpretation before being drowned out by "boxer or briefs" types of posts...

[bsbcaer]

fighterchicks wrote...

Calla S wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I dunno, people can go through a lot of trauma but saying they're beyond love is a bit pessimistic. 

I wasn't saying that he's "beyond love." I'm saying that I would prefer it if Hawke didn't magically get past all of his walls and have some squishy "You showed me that not everyone is out to get me; let us copulate" romance. I realize David has written some of my favorite romances; I just... really think Fenris would be better off as a friend. That's all. No harm intended to those who hope that he is an LI.

My main question for you is that do you think he won't be developed well as a character if they do make him an LI?  I mean, I understand that you personally don't want to romance him, but why don't you want the option there?  Is it just the fact that his past and that he doesn't like people touching him?   I'm not trying to pester you, or to cause drama, I'm just really curious as to your reasoning.  

Also, I think it's interesting to have an actual discussion going on.  

Shhhhhhhh...don't jinx it by pointing it out! 

[Evindell]

bsbcaer wrote...

MagneticDawn wrote...

... ......
-is done reading the dev quotes- .... ooohh.... So that's how how Fenris is... O.o It's hard to explain but I think I figured out his character, of coarse I could be wrong, but for now, I'm going to think its right until the game comes out. or a character video..
He is kinda based off Valen but not entirely off of him, his personality has a certain stoic angst edge on him.. His VA, for one has done acting in well-known games..
So hmmm...

So you jumped into the thread without reading any of the previous dev posts?

As for the bolded part...Please avoid the "A" word unless you explain that you're using it in a particular (rather than general) way because it doesn't go over well for some people (particularly me who have certain definition for the word.  Also, now you see why some of us were trying to figure out whether it's meant to be classical stoicism or the modern interpretation before being drowned out by "boxer or briefs" types of posts...

Ah! Found you. Quite a few pages back I made a post throwing out some ideas that I hoped could be discussed, rather than what was happening at the time (something about chickens...I wasn't really paying attention). Alas, only one person seemed eager to join me. But I couldn't remember who had spoken of stoicism before. I greatly wished to discuss the topic, because, for me, stoicism meaning anything but the modern interpretation is a foreign concept to me. I could never really get into my philosophy class (I was more into my Ethics and Morality class) :happy: So any light you could shed on the topic, and how it might affect Fenris, would be greatly appreciated...

[bsbcaer]

Evindell wrote...

bsbcaer wrote...

MagneticDawn wrote...

He is kinda based off Valen but not entirely off of him, his personality has a certain stoic angst edge on him.. His VA, for one has done acting in well-known games..
So hmmm...

As for the bolded part...Please avoid the "A" word unless you explain that you're using it in a particular (rather than general) way because it doesn't go over well for some people (particularly me who have certain definition for the word.  Also, now you see why some of us were trying to figure out whether it's meant to be classical stoicism or the modern interpretation before being drowned out by "boxer or briefs" types of posts...

Ah! Found you. Quite a few pages back I made a post throwing out some ideas that I hoped could be discussed, rather than what was happening at the time (something about chickens...I wasn't really paying attention). Alas, only one person seemed eager to join me. But I couldn't remember who had spoken of stoicism before. I greatly wished to discuss the topic, because, for me, stoicism meaning anything but the modern interpretation is a foreign concept to me. I could never really get into my philosophy class (I was more into my Ethics and Morality class) :happy: So any light you could shed on the topic, and how it might affect Fenris, would be greatly appreciated...

This isn't going to be as good as my initial post, because it's gotten swallowed up somewhere in the thread   It has been years since I've taken a philosophy class myself (which is why I was hoping that more people would join into the conversation   The more modern interpretation we have of a Stoic seems to be Vulcans (from Star Trek).  They close themselves off from ALL emotion, not simply destructive/bad emotions (that's what made the dichotomy between Vulcan's and Romulans interesting to me).  As a scholar, I hate using wiki as a source, but it works best right now for my purposes.

  Sourced from Wiki:
Stoicism teaches the development of self-control and fortitude as a means of overcoming destructive emotions; the philosophy holds that becoming a clear and unbiased thinker allows one to understand the universal reason (logos). A primary aspect of Stoicism involves improving the individual’s ethical and moral well-being: "Virtue consists in a will which is in agreement with Nature." This principle also applies to the realm of interpersonal relationships; "to be free from anger, envy, and jealousy," and to accept even slaves as "equals of other men, because all alike are sons of God."
The Stoic ethic espouses a deterministic perspective; in regards to those who lack Stoic virtue, Cleanthes once opined that the wicked man is "like a dog tied to a cart, and compelled to go wherever it goes." A Stoic of virtue, by contrast, would amend his will to suit the world and remain, in the words of Epictetus, "sick and yet happy, in peril and yet happy, dying and yet happy, in exile and happy, in disgrace and happy," thus positing a "completely autonomous" individual will, and at the same time a universe that is "a rigidly deterministic single whole."

So, going back to Fenris, if he adheres to the more classical definition of Stoicism, it doesn't mean that he must be withdrawn and taciturn and removed from his emotions.  A stoic attempts to be free from destructive emotions and, if the emotions are held in check below the skin, then the whole "ticking time bomb" idea may be one that can apply to Fenris with an explosion of anger or jealousy.  Still drinking first cup of coffee, but at the very least this can be used as a jumping off point for more discussion...

unless and until the thread devours it

[Ramante]

Addai67 wrote...

Calla S wrote...
From what I've seen from other BioWare games, if you play the same sex of an LI (if she or he's not the S/S LI) or if you don't choose to romance the person with the option to do so, the character development just... isn't there. Most people get their development solely through the romances or through friendship paths. For instance, I thought I knew more about Wynne and Sten and Oghren than I did about Morrigan in my first run through of Origins. She was just a plot point to me. I didn't get to see much of her, especially not compared to the playthrough where I romanced her. I don't want to miss out on the characterization of Fenris just because I don't want to romance him.

But who's to say that's even possible?  The same issues that could prevent a character from wanting to open up romantically might apply to being best buds.  I thought Morrigan had some really nice angles as a female friend.  It would have been better if they'd left the Revelation scene, but it was still touching for her to realize she had a friend.

Morrigan made more sense to me with my femWardens than with the Warden I used to romance her.

Anyway I really don't know what to think about the possible LI-status of Fenris. Part of me wants him to be romancable, but another part agrees with Calla. I'm afraid that a possible romance will take away some of his personal story, I already noticed that in Origins; I liked Alistair more (and knew him better) during my friend playthroughs than during the playthroughs in which my Warden romanced him.. But at the same time I felt that Zevran's story made more sense when he was romanced, so that was completely the other way around. .. I have no idea what I'm trying to say. xD

Comes down to this, I would love Fenris to be romancable, but if he is not that would be okay (I'll be sad but will get over it). Just hoping that the other LI for femHawke is to my liking.. or I could just romance Isabela, I'm going to do that anyway because she is hot, sounds interesting and I want to steal her boots. >>"

[buggirl]

bsbcaer wrote...


So, going back to Fenris, if he adheres to the more classical definition of Stoicism, it doesn't mean that he must be withdrawn and taciturn and removed from his emotions.  A stoic attempts to be free from destructive emotions and, if the emotions are held in check below the skin, then the whole "ticking time bomb" idea may be one that can apply to Fenris with an explosion of anger or jealousy.  Still drinking first cup of coffee, but at the very least this can be used as a jumping off point for more discussion...

unless and until the thread devours it

I had posted a few days ago that a modern example of classical stoicism would be the character of Graham in Sex Lies and Videotapes. As a direct reaction to emotions he feels he cannot control,  he makes a deliberate decision to close off a part of his life.