55380 réponses à ce sujet

[tankgirly]

MorningBird wrote...

Evindell wrote...

I completely agree with you. On all points, actually.

I wish every party member was an LI, not because I think this should be some sort of dating sim, but because Bioware characters are so well written that a romance always adds just another layer to it. And the more layers, the better. I would love to get to know every single character in every way possible

Completely agree, which is why I'm finding myself in such a pickle, at the moment.  Too many intruging characters, BioWare.

@Akako: You are exactly right.

Evindell, second.

[Most Definitely Sane]

I like the rivalry system. It kind of reminds me of Sten.

Plus, now I can romance people without having to "agree" with everything.

Modifié par Most Definitely Sane, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:50 .

[MorningBird]

Akako13shi wrote...

So i was just doing a quick runthrough some of the wiki and i noticed that having a rivalry with characters will actually help some of the romances... any thoughts?

mine happen to be "aaaw shyznit" i am one of those people who are an absolute suck up too everyone x3

I'm terrible, and actually like to make fun of everyone.  Particularly where there shoes are concerned. xD

Zevran: *in the middle of retelling story*
Warden: Wait, your boots were pilfered by street urchins?

Leliana: OMG SHOES!
Warden: I LOVE SHOES!

Obviously not exact wording. and I'm pretty sure Leliana didn't know I was mocking her (Maker bless her soul ) but yeah.

If Fenris is a LI, somehow, I think I'm going to accidently tigger the rivalry version due to a problem where I can't keep my mouth shut.  Heck, I'll probably somehow end up triggering it even if there isn't a romance. >>

[Wynne]

[quote]Tamyn wrote...

Full size[/quote] Holy CRAP, Tiff that is beautiful! *squeals* I can't believe it's not even finished yet! 

[quote]Sticky Controller wrote...

Can we kill Isabela at all? Cause I don't want any females as my companions. =/
'Cause
a Dev said that your companions will visit each other to talk, among
other things. The last part got me, ha ha. I don't want any woman
(epsecially a lustful woman like Isabela) around Fenris. But other than
that I just don't like her character.[/quote] Aww, come on! Neither is the other's type unless I'm sorely mistaken, but in either case Isabela will likely be more interested in Lady Hawke than Fenris, and even if she liked you both she'd just be like, "Hey, why don't you crazy kids come to my cabin later?" Don't kill poor Izzy. She's a LADY PIRATE for goodness' sake! That's so cool.

[quote]Calla S wrote...

[quote]Chagrinned Goat wrote...

It seems
like romantic involvement and intimacy would be asking a bit too much,
[/quote]
It
seems like pushing it to me. Let's have this physically and no doubt
emotionally scarred character and let Hawke develop a sincere friendship
with him. I'm all for that. Hawke can help him recuperate. As of now,
I'd prefer seeing him healed on his own with urgings from those around
him, not ~washed clean of all ills with the power of Lady Hawke's love.~
Frankly, that's just silly.

Not to mention the general blowback
from people who are tired of having to play psychologist to their love
interest. God, I am so sick and tired of that.[/quote] While I get what you both are saying and essentially agree with it, I still have a phrase that I think makes such statements irrelevant.

TEN FRAKKING YEARS.

I kinda think that, if it's well written (and, come on, it's gonna be) that there's absolutely no reason whatsoever not to assume he can be an LI because Hawke has plenty of time to be his friend *long* before ending up anywhere near his bed. And hopefully, that's the kind of romance he has, much as I would assume Aveline's romance would be. And in all that time, there's not necessarily any need for Hawke to play therapist because for all we know, he sort of finds one in somebody else completely on his own.

It's my assumption that both Aveline and Fenris have a sort of romantic tension under the surface with Hawke. The kind of thing where you both remain carefully at arms' length with one another because you don't want to do anything you'll regret. And I think that tension will result in mutual respect, friendship, trust--a very slow-forming bond that is more than just fluffy little vignettes of hurt-comfort resolution that at some point end in sex and awkward conversation about said sex. Rather, the kind of thing that is so powerful it scares you, so you circle it like a wary cat before burying it until you just can't keep it in the ground anymore. It still sprouts and slowly, quietly blooms right under your nose.

I think we're still thinking like DAO players here, where the romances feel a bit like they could even be less than a year in their span. Issues don't make so much of a difference with ample time to work through them, and romance doesn't have to smack you in the face immediately to happen; far from it. DA2 is a different ballgame altogether.

[quote]Calla S wrote...

Considering Sebastian is DLC, I sincerely doubt he's an LI. No, strike that, I really, REALLY don't think he's an
LI. It'd be beyond ridiculous to make people pay for one of the female  love interests. If he is something of an LI, it'll be a few flirty options and very little else. [/quote] I don't know... they could still do a lot with ten years. Show a few hints, but give a reason why he can't (priestly vows), then at the end let Hawke walk off into the sunset with him... I think that much is possible.

[quote]Calla S wrote...

As it stands, Aveline is more likely a male LI than Varric is a female one. Why? Because people can't look past their prejudices and romance a dwarf. There quite literally is no other reason. I've often said that if Varric was an elf or a human, people would be hoping and wishing and jumping up and down for an opportunity to romance him. As it stands, that hasn't happened. 'Cause he's a dwarf. [/quote] You might be right about that in most cases. But the thing that made me hesitate is not prejudice, but the fact that dwarves in general remind me a bit of my dad. My dad's got chest hair and is kinda stocky, with some muscle on him but some roundness in places... he's tall, but there's just something sort of dwarven about his frame. I  love my father, but guys who remind me of him don't go on my list of romances.

However, Varric is different enough from the average dwarf (read: better-looking, more suave and charming, more fun, more interesting; Mary Kirby's fine writing + Brian Bloom's sublime voice = indisputable awesome) that though he wouldn't be my #1 choice for LI, he's on my wish list and if he were available, I would most assuredly romance him at some point. And if I liked him best in comparison with the others, he might even be my first romance in DA2.

I still think he's entirely possible--it's just, I don't recall Mary Kirby writing a romance before in this series. This time she wrote Varric and Merrill, according to the wiki, though... maybe Merrill has no romance, contrary to how it seemed, but it's just as possible that either or both are available. We'll just have to see.

*crosses fingers that to make up for the V-day update that never was and became a delay (IIRC), they did extra LIs for this game*

[quote]Chagrinned Goat wrote...

My problem lies in the fact that a man who can't even be approached for a handshake is probably not going to be enthusiastic for starting an intimate relationship. At least not in the course of the game. I would be fine with if it started out with a friendship and only near the end of the game did he express an interest in a romantic relationship with Hawke, but that's not the payoff the  fans expect, and that's not the payoff they're going to get. A romantic interest is going to have a fully realized romantic relationship, likely culminating in a sex scene. A romance with Fenris isn't ideal with what we know about him, even if it did play out slow, with, as I said, only
an expressed interest at the end of the game as the entirety of a romance. [/quote] What I am reading from this is, "I would be fine with a romance, but only if it's after ten years rather than nine or eight or seven or six or five..." Why on earth are you quantifying how long it will take for him to be okay enough for a romance when we have no idea whatsoever how bad his issues actually are? "Can't even be approached for a handshake" sounds very much an exaggeration to me. The Grand Poobah never said that, and I find that wording--conveniently suited to your opinion and taken out of context. I'm not intending to offend you here, I'm just saying that I think your point of view is coloring your memory a little bit. Just as a refresher: "Well, first he would flinch-- because his markings are quite painful, and doubly so when they're touched. His first instinct might be to punch someone who touched him, though he'd probably hold back if he realized it was Hawke. Then he would brood." Then, " I wouldn't make too big a deal of his touch-causes-pain thing. It's more of an aversion than actual physical agony. You'll see when you play, though honestly he doesn't dwell on it at all. It's not central to his story."

Thus, I wouldn't assume that he can't be approached for a handshake--far from it. It's not like he's necessarily such a loose canon as that, and it in fact doesn't sound like that at all.

There's a quality called resilience that is talked about in developmental psychology. Some people, even when trapped in terrible circumstances, develop a strength and an indomitable will to survive, and they flourish even in harsh conditions despite all odds. For all we know, Fenris is surprisingly well-adjusted for whatever he's gone through (and for all we know, he was treated very well.)

[quote]Evindell wrote...

Though, I do kind of like the idea that he might not be as much of a victim as we all think...[/quote] That would be interesting. It could cause serious issues if it were the case, though it could also make him glad to have forgotten so much.

[quote]MagneticDawn wrote...

How you think Fenris' child hood was like *if* he wasn't sold into slavery yet?
Do any of you (heaven forbid) that being sold into slavery was the best thing to happen to him?[/quote] That would also be very tragic, but certainly interesting.

[quote]Evelane wrote...

Hummm.. no, that what we call sarcasm... he is not a unicorn.. he is actually
**spoilers**
[/quote] I so thought you were going to post [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus]this[/url.]

[quote]Yellow Words wrote...

[quote]David Gaider wrote...

[quote]tankgirly wrote...
Can't he simply be an unfortunate soul abducted from an nearby Dallish camp/alienage?
[/quote] He
was actually a unicorn prince that got trapped in elven form and then
kidnapped before being sold into slavery. About halfway through the game
a flying purple cat arrives to tell him that unless the player helps
him ascend to the Unicorn Throne the world will come to an end. Angst
ensues.[/quote]

Sheldon Cooper: Is that sarcasm? 

Sorry, I couldn't help it. [/quote][quote]Upsettingshorts wrote...



Christ Gaider, woulda been nice if you bothered with a spoiler warning. *cancels preorder*[/quote] This entire line of commentary made me laugh so hard, I cannot even tell you. You people crack me up.

Modifié par Wynne, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:09 .

[Dr. Doctor]

A liittle more on the raiders is available here. Isabela was a captain in their armada before her ship went down. The raiders are pirates. Kirkwall is a harbor city. Do the math.

Isabela: (looks out the tavern window only to see a ship flying a familiar flag crusing into the harbor) Hawke, we've got company!

Hawke: Please tell me that it's just Knight-Commander Meredith looking to chew me out for not being apart of the Circle.

Isabela: I'm afraid not sweetheart, looks like my old friends from the Armada are here to pay us a visit.

Fenris: You are aquainted with these raiders?

Isabela: Who, Roberto? He's a decent sort, for a fellow privateer, rubbish at cards and...other things though.

Fenris: Well then, if you are so well aquainted with the leader of these raiders, can't you just tell them to leave the city alone?

Hawke: (looking out the window sees Templars firing a flaming bolt from a ballista lighting the ship ablaze) Looks like diplomacy has failed yet again thanks to the ever-so tolerant views of our friendly neighborhood zealots. Isabela, Fenris grab your blades, it's going to be a long night.

Fenris: Oh joy, nothing like keeping the ingrates of Kirkwall safe from harm.

Isabela: Come on Fen, there'd be no more fun for us in this town if we didn't have Meredith to bother.

[ankuu]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

I like the rivalry system. It kind of reminds me of Sten.

Plus, now I can romance people without having to "agree" with everything.

Panel 2




@Tamyn: Holy MAKER! If it weren't for Wynne i would have missed the GORGEOUS (unfinished?!) piece of art!!! *falls over*

Modifié par ankuu, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:04 .

[Addai]

Akako13shi wrote...

So i was just doing a quick runthrough some of the wiki and i noticed that having a rivalry with characters will actually help some of the romances... any thoughts?

mine happen to be "aaaw shyznit" i am one of those people who are an absolute suck up too everyone x3

Guessing it's similar to how Shale and Sten would give high approval for smack talk and disapproval for flattery.  I would say that Isabela, for instance, would like a little verbal sparring rather than a smooth operator.

[Evelane]

just tough about it.. wouldnt it be strange if all our companions couldntt be LI... cause damn 10 years..
thing can change and evolve... nobody want to stay alone.. XD... anyway as it been confirm that some companions wouldnt be romanceable?

Modifié par Evelane, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:28 .

[Wynne]

Glad I re-posted that link.  And Ankuu, that strip was quite charming! 

MorningBird wrote...

Evindell wrote...

I wish every party member was an LI, not because I think this should be some sort of dating sim, but because Bioware characters are so well written that a romance always adds just another layer to it. And the more layers, the better.

Completely agree, which is why I'm finding myself in such a pickle, at the moment.  Too many intriguing characters, BioWare.

*gestures to her signature banner* Feel free to express your feelings in pictorial form, if you like. I'm right there with ya.

MorningBird wrote...

Yeah, and to be honest, I don't really believe in the whole 'primary' LI thing anyway.  To me, the idea that romances with Alistair and Morrigan are more meaningful/integral to the plot is a bit ridiculous.  Yes, they add depth to the story, and provide a new outlook on the plot, but so do romances with Leliana and Zevran for different reasons.

Whereas Alistair and Morrigan know that a Grey Warden entanglement with the Archdemon usually ends in death, Leliana and Zevran are unaware of what a Warden must sacrifice to end the Blight, and remain somewhat optimistic.  This, to me, makes their romances just as worthwhile/tragic as romances with Alistair and Morrigan can potentially be.  Plus, I believe all four characters to be fully fleshed out with amazingly done romances.   But I'm getting off-topic.

The only thing is, when it comes to the ending, Leliana and Zevran aren't really--involved in the outcome. They're there, but just as part of your entourage, whereas Alistair would be there whether you were or not, as would Morrigan. Zevran and Leliana... not so much. Zev would be with the Crows without you; Leliana would be with the Chantry.

I think this is what Bioware meant to do with the romances this time around; give each character a personal stake in the outcome of what you do, not just a "gosh, I hope you succeed because I know it's important" stake, but a "I believe that this is the way it must be, and if you look at what I've lived through you'll know why I believe it" sort of investment.

I don't think that Leliana and Zevran are any less for not having had a personal stake in DAO... but think how much more their romances could have been--for lack of a better word, flattered by having a reason beyond liking or loving you to be there in that endgame. A reason to feel responsible for what happens. What if Leliana was Loghain's illegitimate daughter, or if Anora was deeply prejudiced against elves, or if Zevran  had been sent a letter by the Crows informing him that he would be "forgotten" if he did one last job, assassinating a critical noble? These might be weak examples, but they would make things a bit more complicated--they would add a sense of Leliana and Zevran's respective presences to the crucial decisions you make at the Landsmeet.

I would've liked that, personally.

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I get the feeling that Fenris is going
to find either a kindred spirit or rival in Aveline. Both of them have
undergone great hardship in their lives. (I get the feeling that Wes'
death isn't the only tragdy that Aveline has faced in her life)  How
they go about dealing with what they've gone through is what separates
them.

I'm not sure if you're right about their respective personalities, but I do get the same sense that you do--I think they're similar people at heart, both sort of damaged and driven at the same time, so they'll either appreciate each other or constantly bump heads.

MorningBird wrote...

bsbcaer wrote...

So,
going back to Fenris, if he adheres to the more classical definition of
Stoicism, it doesn't mean that he must be withdrawn and taciturn and
removed from his emotions.  A stoic attempts to be free from destructive
emotions and, if the emotions are held in check below the skin, then
the whole "ticking time bomb" idea may be one that can apply to Fenris
with an explosion of anger or jealousy.  Still drinking first cup of
coffee, but at the very least this can be used as a jumping off point
for more discussion...

I really like your interpretation,
and I hope it's accurate.    The idea of Fenris being more Zen than
troubled is quite appealing to me, and also adds an to an earlier
comparison I made about Fenris being very... Sten-like. xD  Though once
again, that's probably just me drawing parallels where there are
none.

I could dig that, very much so. If he is as you describe, bsbcaer, then friendship could be about getting him to slowly release that tension and relax, while rivalry could be about inflating the bubble of control until it pops.

Modifié par Wynne, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:31 .

[MorningBird]

Wynne wrote...
I could dig that, very much so. If he is as you describe, bsbcaer, then friendship could be about getting him to slowly release that tension and relax, while rivalry could be about inflating the bubble of control until it pops.

Random, but this gave me an amusing mental image. xD

But once again, I am looking forward to seeing BioWare's take on 'stoic' behavior.

[MorningBird]

Akako13shi wrote...

Hehe i find bioware's version of stoic has always made me laugh... then want too hug the character

Sten definately comes to mind.  I can't help it.  I adore Sten XD and in some ways, I think Leliana was exactly right when she dubbed him a big softy.

There's no doubt in my mind that Fenris is going to be his own character, though.  Somehow, I can't imagine him having the same fondness for cake and cookies. =(

[Maria Caliban]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

A liittle more on the raiders is available here. Isabela was a captain in their armada before her ship went down. The raiders are pirates. Kirkwall is a harbor city. Do the math.

She wasn't part of the Felicisima Armada.

[yoshibb]

Akako13shi wrote...

MorningBird wrote...

Akako13shi wrote...

Hehe i find bioware's version of stoic has always made me laugh... then want too hug the character

Sten definately comes to mind.  I can't help it.  I adore Sten XD and in some ways, I think Leliana was exactly right when she dubbed him a big softy.

There's no doubt in my mind that Fenris is going to be his own character, though.  Somehow, I can't imagine him having the same fondness for cake and cookies. =(

Even if Fenris isnt an LI i hope we can have some funny convos with him like when sten said something like:

Sten: i dont understand you look like a woman
Warden: are you flirting with me sten?

I just think the expressionless face of the pc made that scene all the funnier

I don't know it took me until my third playthrough to realize I basically had to yell at him in order to get him to approve. I rely a lot on sarcasm too, and he never really understood what I was going for. Sten had his funny moments with the cookies and such, but I never really connected with his character like the others. 

Sten and Oghren were just too far on opposite sides of the spectrum for me. Sten was too serious and Oghren was never serious and always drunk (which was funny, but not really someone I can connect with). I didn't mind Wynne because although mostly serious, she understood a good joke and played one of her own every once in awhile, mostly on Alistair. 

Therefore I'd rather Fenris not be Sten like or at least not stare at me angrily every time I made a joke.

[_Aine_]

MorningBird wrote...
Sten definately comes to mind.  I can't help it.  I adore Sten XD and in some ways, I think Leliana was exactly right when she dubbed him a big softy.

There's no doubt in my mind that Fenris is going to be his own character, though.  Somehow, I can't imagine him having the same fondness for cake and cookies. =(

I loved Sten.  Thought he was pretty funny actually.  Dead-pan funny, but still funny.    Maybe he won't have the same fondness for cake and cookies, but I bet he gets his own form of quirk  

I go back every now and then and drag Sten everywhere with me.  Having him question my every move grumpily while we are so high on the like-meter is just so amusing. Like bringing around your very own kick-ass grumpy grandpa to your battles, who just so happens to have a killer body and large sword.   

[Minxie]

yoshibb wrote...

Therefore I'd rather Fenris not be Sten like or at least not stare at me angrily every time I made a joke.

I think it'd be nice if Fenris initially is perturbed by Hawke making jokes, but as the years go by in the game he gets used to them and even comes to appreciate Hawke's humor.

[MorningBird]

Minxie18 wrote...

I think it'd be nice if Fenris initially is perturbed by Hawke making jokes, but as the years go by in the game he gets used to them and even comes to appreciate Hawke's humor.

This.  I'd love to see some character growth/change over the 10 year timeline! =D

[Evelane]

MorningBird wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

I think it'd be nice if Fenris initially is perturbed by Hawke making jokes, but as the years go by in the game he gets used to them and even comes to appreciate Hawke's humor.

This.  I'd love to see some character growth/change over the 10 year timeline! =D

Exactly, people evolve in 10 years.. change .. so thats why i say that.. all the companions will be romanceable.. in 10 years thing change.. ^^
even merril will grow up.. and i hope she wont be able to be romance before she become more adult.. cause now its oike 25 years vs 14... give me bad CHILLS.. eurkkkkkk... would be really stupid if a guys want to romance aveline.. but he never can cause she lost his husband.. after 10 years.. thing change we still love the people we lost but.. anyway.. i mean.. maybe some personal quest will give us acces to romance them.. in the future.. or something like that.. i think its really awsome thats the story happen in 10 years.. its let for us ALOT of door open..i hope bioware see that like i do ^^

[da0Xeffect]

I am interested in how Fenris will come out, in terms of personality, of course. Part of it is also that I would like a "real" elf in the group. I know Zevran was an elf, but I would just think Antivian when I saw him. Great character but I had to be reminded he was an elf. Even with the elven origin, there wasn't the sense of, "Oh hey! A fellow elf!"

In conclusion, Fenris sounds particularly interesting and fun, especially with the more interactive conversations.

[Dr. Doctor]

I see Fenris being initally very wary of Hawke and the rest of the party at first. He's been on the run from the Magister for awhile and living like that can put anyone on edge. As time passes Fenris might mellow out a little after having a stable home and life in Kirkwall.

On the subject of Merrill, we're not even sure if she is an LI or not but I'm not sure that I could romance her. I have nothing against Merrill, but she just seems too young for Hawke, I had the same problem with Tali. Romances like that just make me feel a little creepy.