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[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...

So why attack my counter thought that Elves experienced a quickening in their blood because of attachment to humans long before there loss of heritage & knowledge? (Which is in the Codex)

Because this wasn't what you said in your earlier argument and we can't read your mind? Also, how does this contradict HollyJellyfish' theory? There's a lot that is unknown about that period of history because people weren't recording events as much in those days. I don't see how she can attack an argument that was never presented.

I know you have some mad-obsession with arguing in threads that you haven't been following very closely and tend to like being the guy who is always right (even though you are usually way off-base and you ignore counter-evidence) but this thread is just.. not the place for that sort of thing. It's really not.

Modifié par leonia42, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:06 .

[chelseaisthepan]

I don't know why, but I'm fangirling over this character already. And I don't even know that much about him. >.>



*sigh* I've been fangirling over a lot of characters lately. First Boone from F:NV, now Fenris.



I need a life. XD

[Aermas]

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas, don't you have soime other threads to barge in on? People are trying to have fun around here and you illogical arguments aren't helping the mood.

As for the immortality of elves, there are even rumours that the elves were never immortal. It's hard to say if anything could have made them immortal or not because there isn't much recorded history from that time in Thedas. We can assume that all the elves who lived in Arlathan were immortal. Perhaps they were always immortal? I would think lyirum could have some effect on this though, maybe the lyrium triggered their quickening? Or corrupted the elves somehow?

I'm here to discuss Fenris. I may be in the wrong thread... no wait I'm not. I haven't "barged in" I've been here for a long time, & I have never had anything but logical arguments.

[HolyJellyfish]

@tankgirly



That IS an interesting theory. I like the idea of a living golem, perfected through Fenris. It would certainly explain why he is so damn important to them.



I wonder what kind of power a living golem would entail... Does it mean he is capable of using magic when he isn't magically inclined by birth? I do hope immortality plays into this some how.

[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...
I'm here to discuss Fenris. I may be in the wrong thread... no wait I'm not. I haven't "barged in" I've been here for a long time, & I have never had anything but logical arguments.

Right, and I'm the Queen of Antiva.

Anyway, notice how HollyJellyfish referenced the codex while making her points instead of making broad outlandish claims for the sake of argument? You should try that sometime.

And that is an interesting bit about lyirum being taught to humans. I always assumed the Tevinter mages were after elven magic, not necessarily their useage of lyrium. 'Tis very interesting now that we know a bit more about Fenris' background.

[tankgirly]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

@tankgirly

That IS an interesting theory. I like the idea of a living golem, perfected through Fenris. It would certainly explain why he is so damn important to them.

I wonder what kind of power a living golem would entail... Does it mean he is capable of using magic when he isn't magically inclined by birth? I do hope immortality plays into this some how.

The eariler failed example will be those Harvester. To my understanding, they will be in DA II.

They seemed to know Lyrium to a degree. And I am not sure if the Lyrium Well thing will be bring over as well. It's a cool feature.

[HolyJellyfish]

@tankgirly

ALSO, it would explain the value of the Golem of Amgarrak as a DLC Sort of extending a bridge between Dragon Age Origins & DA2. I never really understood WHY Amgarrak was a DLC, since it seemed to have no direct significance to the overarching story.

[Away]

Well the more I think about it the more logical it seems, though I never thought it was illogical. In fact (don't kill me I haven't played in forever) weren't the magisters looking for immortality when they (supposedly) marched on the Golden City?



Also, good call with pointing out Amgarrak, I haven't been able to play any DLC other than Awakening, but it did seem a little unecessary, if these theories are anywhere near the right idea though, that would make sense.

[Aermas]

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

[Ceridwen]

tankgirly, Squadette, HolyJellyfish...
I think we are onto something here.

Tevinters picking up on the secret Amgarrak disaster, and reattempting the living golem experiments with their knowledge of lyrium/magic/etc. to try and recreate the immortality and power the Arlathan elves had.

I bet they're regretting sinking that city right about now.

Modifié par kwintessa, 19 décembre 2010 - 03:17 .

[Leonia]

The only difficulty I am having with the Amgarrak theory is that it would have involved dwarves and Tevinter mages, not elves. The events that happened there aren't so old that elves were still being held in captivity (or was it? I could be wrong on the timeline). It certainly would make sense of GoA tied into DA 2 somehow. Oh speaking of dwarves and elves.. we know they used to trade and possibly co-exist at Cardash thaig (Witch-hunt). I wonder if that has any sort of significance? But those would have been elves from Arlathan. Maybe the elves gave the dwarves some secrets and then the Tevinters pieced together some information that they were lacking.

[HolyJellyfish]

Immortal Elves were actually Organic 'Golems' all along, Fenris being the one true recreation of this.



I wonder if Lyrium is also related to how the Darkspawn came to be, and the corruption of the

'old gods'... Lyrium is known to drive people insane.



That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

And?

Let's also keep in mind that codex entries aren't gospel. They are written by people who lived in Thedas and contain much bias. Anyway nobody is arguing that elves never quickened..

[tankgirly]

I am so glad more people like this theory now. Those magisters might just use any fine elves they can found in the alienage and to fiddle with them. Fenris survived.

[HolyJellyfish]

leonia42 wrote...

The only difficulty I am having with the Amgarrak theory is that it would have involved dwarves and Tevinter mages, not elves. The events that happened there aren't so old that elves were still being held in captivity (or was it? I could be wrong on the timeline). It certainly would make sense of GoA tied into DA 2 somehow. Oh speaking of dwarves and elves.. we know they used to trade and possibly co-exist at Cardash thaig (Witch-hunt). I wonder if that has any sort of significance? But those would have been elves from Arlathan. Maybe the elves gave the dwarves some secrets and then the Tevinters pieced together some information that they were lacking.

Perhaps thats why Amgarrak failed? Was because dwarves and humans aren't capable of withstanding the effects of lyrium the way Elves physically can?

[Aermas]

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

And?

Let's also keep in mind that codex entries aren't gospel. They are written by people who lived in Thedas and contain much bias. Anyway nobody is arguing that elves never quickened..

So, ask for sources & then deny their accuracy whilst defending an argument based on the same "untrustworthy" source?

[Leonia]

Now I'm thinking about re-playing through GoA with this new perspective..

[Away]

kwintessa, we may. Or, knowing the writers, we may not be anywhere near it at all. Either way, speculation is easily 2/3rds of the fun. At least until the game is actually out.



@leonia - I wasn't really thinking of it as a direct link, more as it could sort of be included in the long list of things the tevinters have done to obtain immortality, a way to enhance the history. As for how the old elves and the dwarves interacted, there was certainly in game speculation about it, so all I can imagine is that they must have traded before the humans came.

[Leonia]

Aermas wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

And?

Let's also keep in mind that codex entries aren't gospel. They are written by people who lived in Thedas and contain much bias. Anyway nobody is arguing that elves never quickened..

So, ask for sources & then deny their accuracy whilst defending an argument based on the same "untrustworthy" source?

You're..not making an argument.. you're linking a random codex entry for the sake of linking to a random codex entry? Did they teach you anything about fallacies in school?

Didn't say codexes were untrustworthy, they just need to be kept in context and taken with a grain of salt. You're not using this one very effectively, regardless if it is 100% accurate or not.

[Aermas]

So anyway, does anyone know if Fenris is a twohander or a dual wielder?

[HolyJellyfish]

Aermas wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

And?

Let's also keep in mind that codex entries aren't gospel. They are written by people who lived in Thedas and contain much bias. Anyway nobody is arguing that elves never quickened..

So, ask for sources & then deny their accuracy whilst defending an argument based on the same "untrustworthy" source?

Yes but HOW did their lives quicken? If Dragon Age has taught me anything, its never to accept information on face value. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the elves lost their immortality simply because they held hands with humans. There is something more to it, perhaps something darker.

[Aermas]

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

 First page in the wiki about elves. The elves quickened before they lost any of their heritage & knowledge

The Elves of Thedas are mortal, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen[/i] (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans) they encountered were the mages of the Tevinter Imperium. They traded with the Imperium and grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, due to the elves' genetic adaptability, while exposure to the ‘quick children’ caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

And?

Let's also keep in mind that codex entries aren't gospel. They are written by people who lived in Thedas and contain much bias. Anyway nobody is arguing that elves never quickened..

So, ask for sources & then deny their accuracy whilst defending an argument based on the same "untrustworthy" source?

You're..not making an argument.. you're linking a random codex entry for the sake of linking to a random codex entry? Did they teach you anything about fallacies in school?

Didn't say codexes were untrustworthy, they just need to be kept in context and taken with a grain of salt. You're not using this one very effectively, regardless if it is 100% accurate or not.

My argument is that Elves were immortal. They lost their immortality when they were quicken by the humans. I have supported this with codex entries.

[Away]

Aermas wrote...

So anyway, does anyone know if Fenris is a twohander or a dual wielder?

I'm hoping two handed 1) to avoid the complaints and 2) because a two handed elf who is my DAO PC? Awesome.

[HolyJellyfish]

leonia42 wrote...

Now I'm thinking about re-playing through GoA with this new perspective..

I KNOW, right? I'd replay it too, but holy hell it was too creepy, even for me...

[Aermas]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Yes but HOW did their lives quicken? If Dragon Age has taught me anything, its never to accept information on face value. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the elves lost their immortality simply because they held hands with humans. There is something more to it, perhaps something darker.

They bred with humans, & because of proximity.

Imagine that a machine runs once a day for one hundred days.
Now imagine another machine that runs four times a day for twenty-five days.
The first machine then tries to keep pace with the second, ultimately running itself faster & shortening its lifespan