201 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I personally loved the "Hey, remember that decision you made, yeah? In case you forgot already, well, this here, this is the consequence of that decision, TADA!" Truly masters of subtlety.

I love how if you decided to save the witch, Geralt basically tells you that you had no reason to make that decision.

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 décembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[Andferne]

This thread if full of lolz

[Ziggeh]

slimgrin wrote...
The dialog and plot developments were nuanced and subtle. It was written for adults, not young adults, like  DA:O most likely was.

So I've been told, from multiple sources. Admittedly I'm not that far in (I'll give it another crack soon, but when they started talking about genetics I had to leave it in the corner for a while until it had had a good hard think about what it had done) but I've seen it be laughably blantant on several occasions and am still waiting for the subtleties.

Another favourite was the deeply romantic and perfectly plot justified "Baying mob outside, we've got about five minutes. Take off your trousers."

[Atakuma]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
The dialog and plot developments were nuanced and subtle. It was written for adults, not young adults, like  DA:O most likely was.

So I've been told, from multiple sources. Admittedly I'm not that far in (I'll give it another crack soon, but when they started talking about genetics I had to leave it in the corner for a while until it had had a good hard think about what it had done) but I've seen it be laughably blantant on several occasions and am still waiting for the subtleties.

Another favourite was the deeply romantic and perfectly plot justified "Baying mob outside, we've got about five minutes. Take off your trousers."

You probably aren't going to be a fan of the "humans are racist against non humans" thing then.

[The Lyons]

If you have never read The Witcher stories, you have no idea what you are talking about. They are basically European pulp novels, and this comes through heavily in the designers' interpretation. This is not to say that it does not play with mature themes such as moral ambiguity in a somewhat mature fashion. Much better than Bioware's tried and true Star Wars morality system.



Also, the measure of this games thematic maturity can just about be summed up in Laidlaw's mrrowl quote in reference to the female pcs buttocks. If you need to look further, there is the obvious TnA of ME2 and the use of romances (in all BW games) as a mere vehicle for depicting pixelated sex. oh, and talimancy. That about sums it up.



Bioware may make entertaining games but they are far from mature or morally challenging. It is best to leave that sort of stuff to Obsidian.

[ENolan]

Shady314 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Witcher 2 will have something better than sex card. It will have interactive sex scenes like Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy.

For real? That'd be a hell of a lot better than DA:O's sex in underwear or PG ME2 scenes. If you're going to put it in do it well I say.

Not just you, but so many, many, MANY people have done so as well. I have some hope that some of the devs have heard the fans.

A great man once said, "We've told them many times [companies/people/personalities/etc. being protested/picketed] 'DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.' People forget and then they move on to something else." I might have paraphrased, but the point stands.

This has been proven true many times as those who don't belong in the demographic eventually lose interest and realize that whatever happened really wasn't important most of the time. Companies that buckled however turned off their target demographics, shares go down, and they watch as they damage their own income index. I can name a couple of radio companies I watched go through major format changes because they did just this and they go through radio personality after personailty as they try to find their former fame they lost due to buckling. It's a shame what some groups do, unaware that out-of-context attacks or lack of responsibility is more damaging then some little bit, thing, event, etc. they found that they didn't like. They then try to become a 'moral authority' for others and try to either take away what they didn't like from the rest of the many that did or couldn't care or they try to get the ones behind it fired and hurt the original vision. Most of the time this is the case, not ALL of the time, so don't try to pull that one on this post.























Did I just make a serious post without some sort of smart remark?


Um.... Uh.... What do I say to fix that?!!!!

[slimgrin]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
The dialog and plot developments were nuanced and subtle. It was written for adults, not young adults, like  DA:O most likely was.

So I've been told, from multiple sources. Admittedly I'm not that far in (I'll give it another crack soon, but when they started talking about genetics I had to leave it in the corner for a while until it had had a good hard think about what it had done) but I've seen it be laughably blantant on several occasions and am still waiting for the subtleties.

Another favourite was the deeply romantic and perfectly plot justified "Baying mob outside, we've got about five minutes. Take off your trousers."

Ha! I loved that part. It was not meant to be serious. Yes, sometimes the game takes liberties, but for me that scene was golden.

Let me comment ( finally) on topic here. I like both dark and high fantasy. I happen to think the marketing of DA2 feels rather forced, and that they should say what it is, where it's heart is: high fantasy. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 décembre 2010 - 06:09 .

[Atakuma]

Origins had dark themes, but it was played very whimsically, which really softened the impact they might have otherwise had.

[Ziggeh]

slimgrin wrote...

Ha! I loved that part. It was not meant to be serious. Yes, sometimes the game takes liberties, but for me that scene was golden.

Oh, definitely, it made me laugh, and I'm sure that was the intention. The game makes me laugh a lot, I'm just not sure all of it is at jokes.

I'll stop randomly bashing it there as I'm just being off topic at this point, but from the ~20 hours or so I've seen (and like I say, I've heard enough to assume it gets better), the witcher handles mature themes in an immature way, and so it makes a dreadful benchmark for the term.

[Ziggeh]

Atakuma wrote...

Origins had dark themes, but it was played very whimsically

I could spend quite some time reading too much into many of the issues DA raises. I'm not terribly keen on the term "dark" myself, but I would apply it to a lot of them.

My favourite is probably the mage circle, with its "price of security" questions. I could write essays. If a steady diet of video games hadn't left me with the attention span of an eight year old full of sherbert. Damn them and their shiny....shiny.....ooh, shiny.

[slimgrin]

Atakuma wrote...

Origins had dark themes, but it was played very whimsically, which really softened the impact they might have otherwise had.

Where I criticize Bioware is with their purely vicarious options, the ones that let you be a ruthless assh*le, and get away with it. Because it feels good. And don't get me wrong, it usually does feel rather satisfying pushing a merc out a window ( great for previews) or randomly stabbing people who disagree with you, but these dilemmas come completely out of the blue, and often have no bearing or impact on the story.

[Atakuma]

slimgrin wrote...

Where I criticize Bioware is with their purely vicarious options, the ones that let you be a ruthless assh*le, and get away with it. Because it feels good. And don't get me wrong, it usually does feel rather satisfying pushing a merc out a window ( great for previews) or randomly stabbing people who disagree with you, but these dilemmas come completely out of the blue, and often have no bearing or impact on the story.

That is a valid point, there have not really been any consequences for being evil in bioware games.

Modifié par Atakuma, 17 décembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Ziggeh]

I can only see that flying if there are equally harsh penalties for being good.



The whole problem with the renegade/paragon and dark/light systems giving you points, increasing your abilities was that it rendered most of the decisions as "problems", when they should be "choices". If any part of the question is "what makes this easier for me?" then people are inclined to make a calculation, rather that decide based on RP or moral terms.

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I've heard that Dragon Age 2 will be the dark second chapter darker - grittier - sexier, and I'm wondering what this means.

Are they talking about changes in the environmental art? The story and characters?

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

[slimgrin]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Ha! I loved that part. It was not meant to be serious. Yes, sometimes the game takes liberties, but for me that scene was golden.

Oh, definitely, it made me laugh, and I'm sure that was the intention. The game makes me laugh a lot, I'm just not sure all of it is at jokes.

I'll stop randomly bashing it there as I'm just being off topic at this point, but from the ~20 hours or so I've seen (and like I say, I've heard enough to assume it gets better), the witcher handles mature themes in an immature way, and so it makes a dreadful benchmark for the term.

 

Know what? I was thinking of another scene, some 50 hrs in, with a major character. You're citing the one with the witch, Abigail, at the beginning of the game.

Sorry, I know its off topic...

[errant_knight]

scyphozoa wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

Zing. On the day they got fired. damn thats cold.

Actually, I made the comparison early on, but that is what reminded me of it. I was shocked that is was done so cruelly, but hey, it's syfy.... That and the thread title is almost the exact wording that was used to market it. 

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 décembre 2010 - 06:59 .

[Atakuma]

errant_knight wrote...
Actually, I made the comparison early on, but that is what reminded me of it. I was shocked that is was done so cruelly, but hey, it's syfy....

off topic but that name change makes me want to punch someone in the stomache.

[upsettingshorts]

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

Heck, even Deep Space Nine could qualify for that description when compared to The Next Generation - though I doubt they ever spelled it out.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 décembre 2010 - 07:03 .

[errant_knight]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

That was a series that started the way it meant to go on. No overhaul involved. Different scenario entirely.

[Piecake]

errant_knight wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

That was a series that started the way it meant to go on. No overhaul involved. Different scenario entirely.

<--Likes Stargate Universe more than the others

*Flees thread*

[SirOccam]

Piecake wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

That was a series that started the way it meant to go on. No overhaul involved. Different scenario entirely.

<--Likes Stargate Universe more than the others

*Flees thread*

I'm with you. Well...I do have fond memories of the classic episodes of SG-1. I think they are both great in very different ways.

[Loc'n'lol]

I'll just leave this here, I guess ?

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 17 décembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[AlanC9]

errant_knight wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

That was a series that started the way it meant to go on. No overhaul involved. Different scenario entirely.

So the problem with SGU is that it wasn't a total reboot with no particular interest in what the fans of the original liked about the show?

Yeah, I'll buy it. From what I've seen people who really liked SGU weren't big fans of the 'Gates in the first place, though they probably watched them plenty.

[errant_knight]

AlanC9 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Last time I heard a franchise overhaul described that way, it was Stargate's reboot to Stargate Universe. That didn't work out so well.

It worked out pretty well for Battlestar Galactica.  At least enough that it should hardly be recognized as a harbinger of success or failure in any case.  

That was a series that started the way it meant to go on. No overhaul involved. Different scenario entirely.

So the problem with SGU is that it wasn't a total reboot with no particular interest in what the fans of the original liked about the show?

Yeah, I'll buy it. From what I've seen people who really liked SGU weren't big fans of the 'Gates in the first place, though they probably watched them plenty.

Uh, what? Oh, that 70's show... No. Really that was far enough from most people's conciousnesses that I don't think it much figured into the audience for Galactica. Unlike the time frame involved  the stargate shows. Or potentially with Dragon Age. I'm thinking that if you wait 20 years between iterations, you can pretty much do what you want.

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 décembre 2010 - 07:50 .