77 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

No Grunt still had the genophage in him. When you ask EDI about him while he's still in the tube she says that apart from the genophage that is in every cell of his body he's a 'perfect' Krogan specimen.



Okeer believed that the next generation of Krogan should be grown instead of born since such a smalll number survive and those survivers are treated like gold regardless of how strong they are. With growing you can make them as strong as possible and disgard the weak ones.

[BioticInfiltrator]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

Personally, I agree with Mordin. Its too dangerous to cure it. But I believe so for different reasons.

Over crowding. At thier peak, Krogan bred like rabbits and ran out of room, so it caused aggression. Even if Clan Urdnot can control said aggression, we still have to find room for them all without infringing on other species territories and causing anti-krogan aggression to flare.

However, I would be fully understanding of altering the Genophage. Instead of keeping populations stable at pre-industrial levels like Mordin says, bump it up to say, pre-nuclear levels(if there is such a thing).

Less Krogan still-births, Krogans happy. Happier Krogan = less aggression. Less aggression means less need for Genophage type weapons.

At least thats how I see it.

^ This.

I personally would like to cure it BUT Wrex isn't going to live forever and keep Tuchunka united. Without a united
and stable government we would see another Krogan Rebellions.

Someone suggested a modified cure a couple of post back. That is what I would
like to see not Cure it but modify it so that the Krogan have more of a chance of survival then they do now, say for example they could birth 2 out of 1000 or 5 out of 1000.
 
Wrex may be Krogan but I think he knows as well as Mordin does that a cure would just lead to genocide.
I don't know if he would be against modifying the Genophage, if I remember correctly he wanted to save the supposed "cure" on Virmire so that he could save his species from extinction. If you modify the Genophage
your essentially saving the krogan species but not allowing them to get back to "rebellion" numbers. I hope we get to ask Wrex and Mordin their thoughts on modifying the Genophage in ME 3.

I also hope that ME 3 is not a DA:O clone and we have to choose sides

Modifié par BioticInfiltrator, 18 décembre 2010 - 04:54 .

[Mercedes-Benz]

I hope so, the Krogan are cool and the more of them there are, the bigger the chance of beating the Reapers is.

[TheGreyGhost119]

I saved the data on the Genophage cure. In a perfect world, ME3 will allow me to simply hand it to Wrex and tell him to do what he thinks is best. I doubt it will be that simple, though.



Honestly, it should be used as a bargaining chip. Help us defeat the Reapers, and we will modify the Genophage to a level that works for everyone involved.

[GodWood]

TexasToast712 wrote...
The Krogan were wronged

They won the rachni war, were deemed heroes and were given entire planets as a reward.
They then decided to attack other species home worlds to claim as their own.
They brought the genophage on themselves.

and they are dying out,

Their numbers are small but they are not on the risk of extinction.

besides, by the time the Krogans started trouble IF they started trouble

A cured krogan race starting another war would be inevitable

then Shepard would be long gone and dead.

Not the right attitude for someone who is meant to keep galactic peace.

It also makes sense that if the Krogan start to get out of hand threaten them with another Genophage, they would back down.

I imagine, as a species, the krogan wouldn't respond to kindly to threats to nooter them again.

The Salarians arent making sure they arent dying out, They are making sure they arent recovering, whats makes you think they are trying to keep them alive? They RE-RELEASED the Genophage through Mordin.

Use YOUR bloody head.

Listen to Mordin.
Yes, they modified the genophage to stop krogan numbers from increasing, however they also maintain krogan numbers at a specific level to prevent them from dying out.

[luakel]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

I saved the data on the Genophage cure. In a perfect world, ME3 will allow me to simply hand it to Wrex and tell him to do what he thinks is best. I doubt it will be that simple, though.

Honestly, it should be used as a bargaining chip. Help us defeat the Reapers, and we will modify the Genophage to a level that works for everyone involved.

Technically, the level it's at now does seem to be working, at least with someone like Wrex in charge. He's managing to establish peace between the factions to allow for population growth, sharing those females that are fertile. Maybe the morality behind the genophage is lacking, but it does already seem to have potential results. What will happen with Wreav instead of Wrex, or even after Wrex dies if he was saved, is another story though.

It'd be nice if the "bargaining chip" varies based on who it's offered to. If you give it to Wreav, I can see him gladly helping you in gratitude, but the epilogue might show a revanche-obsessed Krogan. It'd be awesome if you give it to Wrex and he just stomps on it, then laughs and makes some badass comment about how the Krogan don't need it.

[achwas]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...
I saved the data on the Genophage cure. In a perfect world, ME3 will allow me to simply hand it to Wrex and tell him to do what he thinks is best. I doubt it will be that simple, though.

Honestly, it should be used as a bargaining chip. Help us defeat the Reapers, and we will modify the Genophage to a level that works for everyone involved.

Wow, handing the dificult choice off to Wrex. Heroic ! Let's have someone else decide....

Nevermind of what will happen if some Macbeth-type usurper tries (successfully) via a coup to take out Wrex and take over Tuchanka and the Krogan for himself. Instantly you have a second Kogran rebellion waiting to unfold.

The Krogan, pre-genophage, were not ready for the uplift to a galactic civilization. With the genophage in place and Wrex at the helm for a couple of decades, that might change.

[Epic777]

GodWood wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...
The Krogan were wronged

They won the rachni war, were deemed heroes and were given entire planets as a reward.
They then decided to attack other species home worlds to claim as their own.
They brought the genophage on themselves.

and they are dying out,

Their numbers are small but they are not on the risk of extinction.

besides, by the time the Krogans started trouble IF they started trouble

A cured krogan race starting another war would be inevitable

then Shepard would be long gone and dead.

Not the right attitude for someone who is meant to keep galactic peace.

It also makes sense that if the Krogan start to get out of hand threaten them with another Genophage, they would back down.

I imagine, as a species, the krogan wouldn't respond to kindly to threats to nooter them again.

The Salarians arent making sure they arent dying out, They are making sure they arent recovering, whats makes you think they are trying to keep them alive? They RE-RELEASED the Genophage through Mordin.

Use YOUR bloody head.

Listen to Mordin.
Yes, they modified the genophage to stop krogan numbers from increasing, however they also maintain krogan numbers at a specific level to prevent them from dying out.

Small correction the planet the krogan got was essentially an ice cube that no one else wanted

[TheGreyGhost119]

achwas wrote...
Wow, handing the dificult choice off to Wrex. Heroic ! Let's have someone else decide....

There's nothing heroic about the decision in the first place, though.  I just feel that Shepard owes it to Wrex at this point to give him the data considering everything that Wrex has done.

[achwas]

TheGreyGhost119 wrote...

achwas wrote...
Wow, handing the dificult choice off to Wrex. Heroic ! Let's have someone else decide....

There's nothing heroic about the decision in the first place, though.  I just feel that Shepard owes it to Wrex at this point to give him the data considering everything that Wrex has done.

I find handing over hard choices to other people to make them for oneself  both a shirking of responsibility and a rather cowardly way out of facing the consequences down the road.
Handing it to Wrex is both putting him on the point - and he is less mentally equipped to do so than Shepard - and "washing my hands in innocence" if this go south..... sounds like 'politician-style'...  *points*  Wasn't me, the dumb Urdnot caused the second Krogan rebellion....
Not the thing I would do to a friend and old-comrade in arms : make his life hell instead of my own..... And that's precisely where the heroism in that  case would lie - choosing and standing for the less "popular" alternative, because it is the sole correct choice. How often people do that exactly  ?


Nevermind "owing it to Wrex". You mean, after him drawning on Shepard over the genophage question on Virmire, which unless Shep can talk him out of it, ends with Shep or proxy shooting him ? He didn't think all that clearly back then, I don't see any reason why he should do so now.

[Praetor Knight]

achwas wrote...

Nevermind "owing it to Wrex". You mean, after him drawning on Shepard over the genophage question on Virmire, which unless Shep can talk him out of it, ends with Shep or proxy shooting him ? He didn't think all that clearly back then, I don't see any reason why he should do so now.

But Wrex refused to work with Maelon.

[Legbiter]

The cure dosen't have to be implemented. Just dangled in front of the krogan like a carrot to secure their cooperation. Whether you live up to your bargain on the other hand....

[thachugabug]

Well, you could cure the genophage, kill the reapers, then re-genophage them. Although, that would be hardcore cruel

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Maybe cure it to an extent, so they're having children and getting a stable population, but not over-running the Galaxy.

[Merchant2006]

TheNexus wrote...

Wrex will then proceed to have 3000 babies, all named Wrex (even the women).

"You've been busy I see Wrex."
"Heh, you could say that, come Shepard, meet my children!"
"Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard." "Shepard.""Shepard.""Shepard."
"Wrex's".

[achwas]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

achwas wrote...
Nevermind "owing it to Wrex". You mean, after him drawning on Shepard over the genophage question on Virmire, which unless Shep can talk him out of it, ends with Shep or proxy shooting him ? He didn't think all that clearly back then, I don't see any reason why he should do so now.

But Wrex refused to work with Maelon.

What does have to do with him "owing" it to him ? And did I miss any particular dialogue about Maelon approaching Wrex ? Can't seem to remember there being any

[packardbell]

If the genophage is cured and they colonize new worlds, it should be similar to Tuchnaka to the numbers are kept in check. Survival of the fittest.

[Praetor Knight]

achwas wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But Wrex refused to work with Maelon.

What does have to do with him "owing" it to him ? And did I miss any particular dialogue about Maelon approaching Wrex ? Can't seem to remember there being any

Maelon went to Clan Urdnot first and Wrex refused to allow Maelon to test on his people while Clan Weyrloc did,
third paragraph on Mordin's LM

Nothing about owing to Wrex, I think I removed too much of your post in that quote, sorry.
 
I was intending to point out that Wrex is not unreasonable and should be capable of making a rational choice regarding a potential genophage cure, at least for increasing the morale of his people and as a possible carrot to bring more clans under the Urdnot banner.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 19 décembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Vaenier wrote...

Wait, so what multiple races spanning a large portion of the galaxy on dozens[hundreads?] of worlds and a massive infastructure of shipyards and mining facilities could not stop the Rachni. But a single planet of Krogan with no infastructure to speak of and no technology were able to beat the Rachni to extinction without breaking a sweat? Am I the only one to see a problem here?

If you dont wana orbital bombard, then just park a few ships in orbit to shoot down any Rachni ships. Contain the threat till you can make a Rachni genophage.

The Rachni spread farther, faster. And I'm not saying that they couldn't fight the Rachni, on the assumption of starship military might, I'm sure the Asari and Salarians won quite a few battles, but once the Rachni took a planet, it can also be assumed they held that planet and most if not all attacks against it failed. And the Krogan were "uplifted" and supplied ships, weapons, armor. They were granted the infrastructure of the other two races and free reign on the Rachni.
And if a three hundred year war is "not breaking a sweat", I guess the war with the Geth and Saren was like a picnic, right?

From the Mass Effect Wikia article "Rachni Wars":

The Rachni Wars were a series of conflicts beginning in around 1 CE, when an expedition from the Citadel races activated a dormant mass relay. This relay opened a route to territory controlled by the Rachni, a species of highly intelligent space-faring hive-minded insects. The rachni were alarmingly powerful, having massive strength in numbers, and extremely hostile. Negotiation with the rachni was impossible; their leaders, the Rachni Queens, dwelt in deep underground nests, on worlds so hostile no one could survive them.

This period saw the Citadel races fight a losing war against the rachni for nearly a century until the Salarians "culturally uplifted" a new species, the Krogan. The volatile krogan homeworld, Tuchanka, had been ravaged by a nuclear winter caused by a krogan civil war. The salarians helped the krogan by giving them advanced technology and relocating them to a planet not cursed with lethal levels of radiation, toxins or deadly predators.

The true purpose of this salarian altruism soon emerged; the krogan were needed in the Rachni Wars as reinforcements. Unlike most Citadel species, the krogan had an extremely rapid breeding cycle. They had not only the numbers to drive the advancing rachni back, but the ability to endure the harsh conditions of the rachni planets. The krogan pursued the rachni to their home worlds, descended deep underground to find the rachni queens, and systematically destroyed both the queens and their eggs. The Citadel Council would normally have objected to such total destruction, but after centuries of relentless war, complete eradication of the rachni seemed the only possible solution.

In 300 CE, the rachni were declared extinct, bringing the Rachni Wars to an end. After that, it became a law not to open a mass relay without knowing where it leads, to avoid another such encounter.

And there you have it. If you truly want to argue this with real-world facts, you should remember that we play in a world created by BioWare. And what BioWare says, is law in their universe. Hell, Shepard was brought back to life! It's the beauty of a game.

And honestly, maybe that strategy might work, if you had the sufficient number of ships to blockade an entire planet, and do that to many planets. Assuming the Rachni ships weren't upgraded by Reaper technology, being indoctrinated and all.

Modifié par FoxShadowblade, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:05 .

[FoxShadowblade]

GodWood wrote...
Their numbers are small but they are not on the risk of extinction.

Did you pay attention in the first and second game?

They aren't dying from the Genophage, but they are dying. They become mercenaries or pirates and end up dying, their numbers are going down, which is why Wrex tried to get the clans to unite and "focus on breeding, atleast for one generation", before his father betrayed him.

They may not be exactly down to the limit on numbers, but they are becoming extinct, slowly and surely.

[TexasToast712]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

Maybe cure it to an extent, so they're having children and getting a stable population, but not over-running the Galaxy.

This is what I want. I want the krogan population to increase to the point where they can at least get off their homeworld and get a colony so they arent being eaten by Thresher Maws on Tuchanka. Maybe alter the genophage to every 250 children out of 1000 are born alive instead of 999 out of 1000 dieing.

Thats not too much to ask is it?

Modifié par TexasToast712, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[GodWood]

Epic777 wrote...
Small correction the planet the krogan got was essentially an ice cube that no one else wanted

I have no idea where you pulled that from because the codex says otherwise.

"The causes of the Rebellions stemmed from Citadel Council concession made to the krogan in gratitude for their service in the Rachni Wars. The krogan were given the conquered rachni planets along with several pristine, habitable worlds."

FoxShadowblade wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Their numbers are small but they are not on the risk of extinction.

Did you pay attention in the first and second game?

They aren't dying from the Genophage, but they are dying. They become mercenaries or pirates and end up dying, their numbers are going down, which is why Wrex tried to get the clans to unite and "focus on breeding, atleast for one generation", before his father betrayed him.

They may not be exactly down to the limit on numbers, but they are becoming extinct, slowly and surely.

Ugh, I already answered this in the rest of my post which you snipped.
Are their numbers falling? Yes.
Are they at the risk of extinction? No.
Why? The salarians keeping check on krogan numbers and whatnot to prevent them from actually becoming extinct.
Wrex was unaware of that thus he thought his species was dying where in reality the salarians were preserving it.

Modifié par GodWood, 19 décembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[Epic777]

GodWood wrote...

Epic777 wrote...
Small correction the planet the krogan got was essentially an ice cube that no one else wanted

I have no idea where you pulled that from because the codex says otherwise.

"The causes of the Rebellions stemmed from Citadel Council concession made to the krogan in gratitude for their service in the Rachni Wars. The krogan were given the conquered rachni planets along with several pristine, habitable worlds."

FoxShadowblade wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Their numbers are small but they are not on the risk of extinction.

Did you pay attention in the first and second game?

They aren't dying from the Genophage, but they are dying. They become mercenaries or pirates and end up dying, their numbers are going down, which is why Wrex tried to get the clans to unite and "focus on breeding, atleast for one generation", before his father betrayed him.

They may not be exactly down to the limit on numbers, but they are becoming extinct, slowly and surely.

Ugh, I already answered this in the rest of my post which you snipped.
Are their numbers falling? Yes.
Are they at the risk of extinction? No.
Why? The salarians keeping check on krogan numbers and whatnot to prevent them from actually becoming extinct.
Wrex was unaware of that thus he thought his species was dying where in reality the salarians were preserving it.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Garvug

In 354 CE Garvug was considered a "bargain world" given to the krogan to placate them because no else wanted to live on such a frozen rock

[GodWood]

Epic777 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Epic777 wrote...
Small correction the planet the krogan got was essentially an ice cube that no one else wanted

I have no idea where you pulled that from because the codex says otherwise.

[i]"The causes of the Rebellions stemmed from Citadel Council concession made to the krogan in gratitude for their service in the Rachni Wars. The krogan were given the conquered rachni planets along with several pristine, habitable worlds."

Garvug
In 354 CE Garvug was considered a "bargain world" given to the krogan to placate them because no else wanted to live on such a frozen rock

You speak as if thats all they got.
Like the codex entry says, they were given conquered rachni planets along with several pristine habitable worlds.
They got a pretty good deal.

[Epic777]

GodWood wrote...

Epic777 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Epic777 wrote...
Small correction the planet the krogan got was essentially an ice cube that no one else wanted

I have no idea where you pulled that from because the codex says otherwise.

[i]"The causes of the Rebellions stemmed from Citadel Council concession made to the krogan in gratitude for their service in the Rachni Wars. The krogan were given the conquered rachni planets along with several pristine, habitable worlds."

Garvug
In 354 CE Garvug was considered a "bargain world" given to the krogan to placate them because no else wanted to live on such a frozen rock

You speak as if thats all they got.
Like the codex entry says, they were given conquered rachni planets along with several pristine habitable worlds.
They got a pretty good deal.

You miss understand I am not saying the krogan were not blame however the council did not in some cases give them the "garden of eden" type planets. Still it will be highly amusing to see the krogan sit the massive battle against the reapers out.

Modifié par Epic777, 19 décembre 2010 - 08:21 .