148 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

I should be clearer. When I say no console wars are allowed, I mean you will be banned if you insist on pursuing them. Ignoring a moderator's warning while instigating and feeding flame wars would be against the Site Rules of Conduct.

[Alphyn]

Well, yeah, guys. What did you expect? It's the same game, just with another year's time put into it. Does it really make any difference that it's on the PS3? It's the exact same game, right to the very foundation of it.



Let me just say that I (and most likely Pacifien) have very little tolerance towards this school-yard stuff.

"Oh, my dad can beat up your dad!" becomes "Oh, my console is better than your console!"

[didymos1120]

kmcd5722 wrote...
The reason being is that we had to pay for the DLC and WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY for the DLC on top of the game, even when the PS3 version comes out squeky clean with the DLC included.

Yes, and the current price of ME2 for 360/PC is about 20 bucks.  Buying every piece of DLC will run you 32 bucks (80 BW/MS points per dollar).  Add it together, and that's 52 dollars.   ME2 PS3 will be 59.99.  IOW, they're paying for the DLC too.  It's not really "free" at all and you've fallen for the marketing gimmick and gotten all angry about it.  Which is of course why they do these bundled versions: people fall for the "Oooh!  Free DLC!" trick all the time.  It actually guarantees sales of all the DLC available when they're released, when a person could actually save money by buying the original game alone and  then only the DLC that really interested them. 

Yes, eventually the PS3 version will drop in price and it'll be cheaper still.  Welcome to economic reality.  But, in all likelihood, the DLC will also drop in price for the PC/360, either by way of bundle deals on LIVE/Bioware Social, straight price cuts, or an "Ultimate" or "GOTY" edition of ME2.

Oh, and also: not all the current DLC is going to be "free" for ME2 PS3 either.  Some will be paid content right from the start, and of course they will have to pay for the stuff that's not yet released, just like everyone else.

Modifié par didymos1120, 19 décembre 2010 - 07:15 .

[Madman17]

didymos1120 wrote...

kmcd5722 wrote...
The reason being is that we had to pay for the DLC and WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY for the DLC on top of the game, even when the PS3 version comes out squeky clean with the DLC included.

Yes, and the current price of ME2 for 360/PC is about 20 bucks.  Buying every piece of DLC will run you 32 bucks (80 BW/MS points per dollar).  Add it together, and that's 52 dollars.   ME2 PS3 will be 59.99.  IOW, they're paying for the DLC too.  It's not really "free" at all and you've fallen for the marketing gimmick and gotten all angry about it.  Which is of course why they do these bundled versions: people fall for the "Oooh!  Free DLC!" trick all the time.  It actually guarantees sales of all the DLC available when they're released, when a person could actually save money by buying the original game alone and  then only the DLC that really interested them. 

Yes, eventually the PS3 version will drop in price and it'll be cheaper still.  Welcome to economic reality.  But, in all likelihood, the DLC will also drop in price for the PC/360, either by way of bundle deals on LIVE/Bioware Social, straight price cuts, or an "Ultimate" or "GOTY" edition of ME2.

Oh, and also: not all the current DLC is going to be "free" for ME2 PS3 either.  Some will be paid content right from the start, and of course they will have to pay for the stuff that's not yet released, just like everyone else.

And when all the dlc is released they might even release a GotY edition with everything

[Raith Mano]

JrayM16 wrote...

Raith Mano wrote...

mgs00 wrote...

Raith Mano wrote...

Sklibbles wrote...

The game is coming out a full year after the Xbox/PC release, why WOULDN'T it be polished? This means nothing for the xbox/pc players in regards to ME3.

Wait wait wait wait wait...

So when I purchase a game when it first comes out it SHOULDN'T be polished??  I should approve of DLC as a means of extending a game when the content SHOULD be in there to begin with??  Wow.  Really?  I just don't get how a year after the games release means that the game should now be polished and nice instead of when I spent my money when I originally bought the game.

This is a dumb statement.  Technology becomes better every year as well as developers improving so it would make sense to improve the game.  And to all you 360/PC fanboys, it is really stupid to think that Bioware would be loyal to the 360/PC fanboys and make a really horrible PS3 port on purpose and forcing PS3 players to pay full price for the game and DLC that is released for a while now.  Try running your own company.  You'd want to sell and make as much money as you can for your company no matter what it takes.  EA might have forced Bioware to make a port or they wanted to make it volunterily but this shows you Bioware is a good company/developer when they take the time to get it right instead of making a lousy port like what 99.9998593048% of the other developers do.  I am disgusted at you fanboys who cry about this not being fair.  You guys are probably the people who laughed at PS3 owners for losing DMC4, FFXIII, etc. then not buying the game, you guys just wanted to see PS3 owners suffer from losing huge exclusives.  Well now pay back is a **** and PS3 took your best exclusive.   I got a 360 btw.

No, its not a dumb statement.  They have been using the same graphics engine and everything all the way through, and I understand when they perfect the look to something a bit more, but I'm not just talking about the graphics.

The PS3 and 360's technology hasn't changed in the past year.  It hasn't changed at all.  Don't tell me that things have changed so much that the PS3's version is that much better.  It's not about rabid fanboi~ism that you seem to think it is.  I don't care if BioWare does a great port to the game.  ****, I wish I had the interactive comic, because I think that thats pretty damn cool, but what I don't think is right is that you have Casey going on about how the PS3 is the definitive version and people poping up and saying "Well its a more polished game now".

Thats like saying that this years model of a car is vastly greater to last years model because it comes in different paint choices.  Really?

Also, you're disgusted at fanboys of BioWare and Mass Effect but yet you go so hardcore on the PS3 its stupid.  I didn't care when PS3 got ME and I didn't care when the 360 got rights to any games that used to be Sony exclusives.  I do actually work in the business and I understand how exclusivies can ruin things and bring in a business less money and less interest, or bring in companies more business.  Hell, I bought my original Xbox just because I wanted to play KOTOR games. 

You PS3 hardcores need to stop thinking the 360 people have problems with the PS3 version because we're rabid fanbois and see things from our side of the fence a little more.  It was the 360 version that won Mass Effect all these awards and now we're looked at like the red-headed stepchild.

No, it was a dumb statement.  While console hardware may not change year to year, the game engine does, becuase every iteration requires more work.  So, usually the engine it only changed between games, because changin mid-development would overcomplicate the process.  The engine has been updated for ME3, so BW has decided to take advantage of that for the PS3 version of ME2.  All that "red-headed" stepchild crap is paranoia based on a few isolated jerks who spout pro-PS3/360 trolling.

I suppose I'm not making myself clear.  The grpahics isn't what's bothering me.  I don't know how much clearer to make this statement.  I even said its not about the graphics.  Its about the fact that people are saying its a more "polished" version of the game.  Polished doesn't just mean graphics. 

When you say something is the "definitive" version of something, that means that it beats any other version in every way possible.  My entire arguement here is that people are claiming the game is so much better because its more polished coming out a year later, and I'm saying "Why the hell shouldn't I be getting a polished, finished game when it first comes out"?  Its not an MMO with free content updates every three months.

I don't get how/why people are so hung up on graphics.  I still play my PS1 games on a regular basis because the content is still invaluable and a great experience.  All I'm saying, and I don't think many people are getting, is that if the PS3 version of ME2 is that much better than the 360 version, why am I paying just as much and then more with the DLC to have an inferior product?

How does an extra year of development for another console make the game that much better and why did they push it out if it's not on the same level as the other?

[Pacifien]

One thing an artist must learn is to know when they've done all they can for their creation and need to get it out the door. BioWare could have polished Mass Effect 2 for years, refining their use of the Unreal Engine and tweaking details. That's not economically feasible. They had to eventually release Mass Effect 2 so they could get to work on Mass Effect 3. And from what I understand, a team was already working on Mass Effect 3 as they were preparing to get Mass Effect 2 out the door.

What I don't know is when they started a concentrated effort to port to the PS3, but I suspect it was around the time Lair of the Shadow Broker came out based on the fact that nothing else has been announced in the meantime as they focus their efforts on the port. This would place development starting around September, which is many, many months after they had already started working on Mass Effect 3. This meant that their development of the Unreal Engine as it will be used in ME3 was available for them to use for the port, apparently. And since they were messing with the port anyway, it would appear they found no reason not to use it.

Why didn't you get the definitive version of the game? Because you bought the game a year earlier when the developments they have since then had not been developed.

Why did you pay $60 for what is now deemed a less complete version of the game? You paid $60 to get the game a full year earlier. It is a hard truth that if you simply wait, the price drops and games get packaged differently. No one who purchases Mass Effect 2 for the XBox 360 or PC are paying $60 for it anymore. For $20, you get the game as it was released nearly a year ago. For another $26, you pay for the various DLC separately. If you want to compare prices, compare the prices as they are now. If you want to complain that you paid $60 for a game when it first came out, your troubles go far beyond the realities of Mass Effect 2's release. You might as well get angry that I spent $7.50 for Alpha Protocol, a far more significant price drop for a game that'd been out for even less time than Mass Effect 2.

In any case, I think the word "definitive" is open to interpretation. As an XBox 360 player of the game, I'm not too cut up about it any more than I was when Real Myst came out.

[ProdigalMaster]

I doubt the tweaks to the engine are big. Somehow I also doubt it's effectively the ME3 version of the engine we'll be seeing in a year, unless the differences between ME2 and 3 are very minute. Future DLCs for ME2 will probably be released on all three platforms, and they'll need to be made compatible with with each one of them. Imagine what a mess it would be if they had to release the same content for two very different versions of the engine. Too messy.

[Revenant_Mortalus]

I'm really not too bothered about the PS3 fans getting ME2. I'm not even bothered that they're getting all the DLC bundled. Does anyone know if they're getting the Collector gear or the Terminus gear? That'd be a little jarring. But I could live with it. I have to say I'd like to see the interactive comic released for the 360, as it can be a pain in the backside to play through 30 hours of ME1 just to set up a character for ME2. Hell, I'd even be happy to shell out a few MS points for it. This has nothing to do with "*whine* they're getting it so I want it", I just think it's a damn handy feature that I'd like to have available.



I will be extremely disappointed, though, if, like some rumours have suggested, PS3 players get open ended recruitment. There's no reason, that I can think of, why this couldn't be implemented on the 360 if the game is installed on the HDD, as really only one disk is needed for verification. And the PS3 has several content exclusives on many cross-platform games. This is my other worry - that the same thing will happen with ME3. It hasn't happened yet, and might not, so I'm not gonna start hurling abuse at Bioware. That being said, if it DOES happen, you can bet that ME3 will be the last Bioware product I buy. After Activision's treatment of Infinity Ward regarding the Call of Duty games they have proven that quality means nothing next to the quantity that they can put out and I refuse to give them my money. If Bioware show that they will offer exclusives to newcomers to the franchise while neglecting those that have supported ME since day one and allowed the Mass Effect franchise to grow into the multimedia brand that it is now I will also refuse to support them any further. I wholeheartedly believe that these worries are baseless but they are there nevertheless. Guess we'll just wait and see...

[Estelindis]

While I'm happy that PS3 players will get to share in the awesomeness that is Mass Effect 2, I don't see how not playing ME1 could be seen as the definitive ME2 experience.

As a fan of Kaidan and Ashley, I'm also a bit miffed that the scene at the beginning with a crewmember running up to Shepard in the opening of the game will now be Liara, no matter what. (The comic where one makes one's ME1 choices will apparently be shown after that opening scene, so the Virmire choice will not have been made yet.) It's not like Ashley and Kaidan had much screen time *before* this was taken away. Now all they have is a single scene. For me, the "definitive" ME2 experience would never be one involving less of my favourite characters. I really hope they're going to get some more content later, otherwise PS3 players are never going to get a chance to appreciate them the way so many other fans do.

Modifié par Estelindis, 20 décembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[MGIII]

I don't care unless they start getting PS3 exclusive stuff. 'Cause I know Sony pushes hard for that kind of advantage.

Modifié par MGIII, 20 décembre 2010 - 07:37 .

[shumworld]

MGIII wrote...

I don't care unless they start getting PS3 exclusive stuff. 'Cause I know Sony pushes hard for that kind of advantage.

Agreed.

[packardbell]

MGIII wrote...

I don't care unless they start getting PS3 exclusive stuff. 'Cause I know Sony pushes hard for that kind of advantage.

You're joking right? Explain why numerous times 360 get's exclusive content on games and PS3 owners are left in the dark?

[jojon2se]

Yes, yes, they are ALL greedy, excluding bastards.

Only more the power to the developers who stand themselves above the platform controllers' petty bids for market dominance and build their own market as wide as possible.

[Vigil11]

Thank god ME2 is coming to ps3! My 360 broke yesterday, glad I can buy a PS3 without regrets.

[JrayM16]

Raith Mano wrote...

I suppose I'm not making myself clear.  The grpahics isn't what's bothering me.  I don't know how much clearer to make this statement.  I even said its not about the graphics.  Its about the fact that people are saying its a more "polished" version of the game.  Polished doesn't just mean graphics. 

When you say something is the "definitive" version of something, that means that it beats any other version in every way possible.  My entire arguement here is that people are claiming the game is so much better because its more polished coming out a year later, and I'm saying "Why the hell shouldn't I be getting a polished, finished game when it first comes out"?  Its not an MMO with free content updates every three months.

I don't get how/why people are so hung up on graphics.  I still play my PS1 games on a regular basis because the content is still invaluable and a great experience.  All I'm saying, and I don't think many people are getting, is that if the PS3 version of ME2 is that much better than the 360 version, why am I paying just as much and then more with the DLC to have an inferior product?

How does an extra year of development for another console make the game that much better and why did they push it out if it's not on the same level as the other?

Because even a matter of months can make huge improvements to a game.  Think about it.  If in two years Bioware can bring out a game like ME2 then with an extra year they'd be able to polsih the hell out of it. 

Second, sure, maybe you're entitled to a polished version.  But to get the polish we're talking about here you would have to had waited another few months for the game.  Content doesn't usually update cause devs don't usually get a chance to iterate on the same game, though even that's becoming more commonplace with the rise of patches. 

Also, PS3 owners had to wait a year for the game, very proabably getting the whole thing spoiled through pop-culture diffusion.  They have a right to some slightly preferential treatment. 

Also, ME2 on 360 is pretty damn polished.  I'm not even sure what Bioware did to make the PS3 version better.

[Sheldon237]

Pacifien wrote...

One thing an artist must learn is to know when they've done all they can for their creation and need to get it out the door. BioWare could have polished Mass Effect 2 for years, refining their use of the Unreal Engine and tweaking details. That's not economically feasible. They had to eventually release Mass Effect 2 so they could get to work on Mass Effect 3. And from what I understand, a team was already working on Mass Effect 3 as they were preparing to get Mass Effect 2 out the door.

What I don't know is when they started a concentrated effort to port to the PS3, but I suspect it was around the time Lair of the Shadow Broker came out based on the fact that nothing else has been announced in the meantime as they focus their efforts on the port. This would place development starting around September, which is many, many months after they had already started working on Mass Effect 3. This meant that their development of the Unreal Engine as it will be used in ME3 was available for them to use for the port, apparently. And since they were messing with the port anyway, it would appear they found no reason not to use it.

Why didn't you get the definitive version of the game? Because you bought the game a year earlier when the developments they have since then had not been developed.

Why did you pay $60 for what is now deemed a less complete version of the game? You paid $60 to get the game a full year earlier. It is a hard truth that if you simply wait, the price drops and games get packaged differently. No one who purchases Mass Effect 2 for the XBox 360 or PC are paying $60 for it anymore. For $20, you get the game as it was released nearly a year ago. For another $26, you pay for the various DLC separately. If you want to compare prices, compare the prices as they are now. If you want to complain that you paid $60 for a game when it first came out, your troubles go far beyond the realities of Mass Effect 2's release. You might as well get angry that I spent $7.50 for Alpha Protocol, a far more significant price drop for a game that'd been out for even less time than Mass Effect 2.

In any case, I think the word "definitive" is open to interpretation. As an XBox 360 player of the game, I'm not too cut up about it any more than I was when Real Myst came out.

This^  Too many people have this feeling of entitlement to be treated equally because they are ungrateful of the benefits they have. I can understand the feeling of being cheated for paying full price for a game and its DLC when someone else gets it for less but thats not what is happening.  Appreciate the year you had the game to enjoy, and the whole next year to explore before Mass Effect 3 is released. A year PS3 owners will miss out on. Who can deny that the wait for DLC is what gives it some of its value and make appreciate the original game more? Who can't feel good about supporting a developer and franchise that has revolutionized games and helped give the gaming industry the respect it has today? 

My only beef is that the PS3 version got the ME3 engine in addition to a Game of the Year type edition of the game. A lot of people are saying that the graphics aren't that different and while I agree, there's more to an en engine than graphics. Im not saying that because of this Xbox/PC owners of the game are entitled to a refund or re-release, but it certainly seems like the PS3 is getting a bonus for waiting a year so shouldn't we get a bonus for being with BioWare for 3-4 years? Nothing huge, but maybe something that says " Hey thanks for buying the game and DLC full price when you could've waited and saved money and paid less." That is a greater thing than " Hey thanks for waiting for the game, because well, you had to. Here is the content at current pricing and with a brand new engine."

Obviously I'm exaggerating but you get the point. Xbox/PC owners feel burned BioWare. Not because of pricing, not because of a one disc game, and not because of the DLC inclusion. Its because of an engine upgrade, not technical upgrades, that is offered to those who had to wait a year, instead of those who have been with you a year.

[Raycer X]

While the ps3 version is said to be the "definitive" version, after experieincing ME2 on the PC and then playing the ME2 demo on my ps3, I can honestly say that there is no way I'm going to get used to playing ME2 with ps3 controls. While I am excited about ME2 being available on the ps3, I think I'll stick with the PC version. I'm just more used to the controls and it feels more natural for me.

[Alexander Kogan]

 I believe in my honest to personal opinion that Bioware really needs to release a patch on xbox live to fix all those glitches with the sound not working correctly on several parts of the game.  Being how they developed ME2 for several years after the first one, you would think they would have fixed it by now.  

But no, instead the PS3 version gets special treatment with all the glitches fixed in that version.  Look I'm not hating on the PS3 at all, I have one as well as an xbox 360 and I love them both.  But Mass Effect 1 did not have sound problems at all, yet the 2nd one does and the irritating loss of dialogue or sound altogether in several areas of ME2 ruins the experience and sense of immersion.  If I had a PS3 and ME1 came out for both systems at the time, I would have gladly bought the game as such, but It was not released on both systems and nor did I have a PS3 at the time.

I just do not want to have to pay another 60+ dollars for a game I already own especially when it's supposed to be better with the full first game on the console it was released for in the first place.  Besides, Mass Effect: Genesis only goes over a little over half of the important events from the first game by leaving Feros out of it, and Feros was a MAJOR story mission in the first game.

It's a little thing I like to call CONSOLE CONTINUITY. 

Modifié par Alexander Kogan, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

Alexander Kogan wrote...

 I believe in my honest to personal opinion that Bioware really needs to release a patch on xbox live to fix all those glitches with the sound not working correctly on several parts of the game.  Being how they developed ME2 for several years after the first one, you would think they would have fixed it by now.  

But no, instead the PS3 version gets special treatment with all the glitches fixed in that version.  Look I'm not hating on the PS3 at all, I have one as well as an xbox 360 and I love them both.  But Mass Effect 1 did not have sound problems at all, yet the 2nd one does and the irritating loss of dialogue or sound altogether in several areas of ME2 ruins the experience and sense of immersion.

I just do not want to have to pay another 60+ dollars for a game I already own especially when it's supposed to be better with the full first game on the console it was released for in the first place.
It's a little thing I like to call CONSOLE CONTINUITY. 

The only kind of glitch i've experienced in ME2 is when Miranda glitched into the air and her genetically engineered ass was staring shep in the  face. I've never experienced dialogue glitches, and i've played through about 5 times.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

The only kind of glitch i've experienced in ME2 is when Miranda glitched into the air and her genetically engineered ass was staring shep in the  face. I've never experienced dialogue glitches, and i've played through about 5 times.

I always get dialogue glitches during Thane's loyalty mission.  There are spots where Shepard is supposed to be talking, or even overhearing others talking, but you don't hear anything. 

That being said, we don't know if that - or other dialogue glitches that the poster referred to - are fixed in the PS3 port.  If they are, I would imagine Bioware would provide us a patch since they know the underlying cause and all they have to do is some code integration

[Alexander Kogan]

[quote]Gibb_Shepard wrote...

[quote]Alexander Kogan wrote...

 I believe in my honest to personal opinion that Bioware really needs to release a patch on xbox live to fix all those glitches with the sound not working correctly on several parts of the game.  Being how they developed ME2 for several years after the first one, you would think they would have fixed it by now.  

But no, instead the PS3 version gets special treatment with all the glitches fixed in that version.  Look I'm not hating on the PS3 at all, I have one as well as an xbox 360 and I love them both.  But Mass Effect 1 did not have sound problems at all, yet the 2nd one does and the irritating loss of dialogue or sound altogether in several areas of ME2 ruins the experience and sense of immersion.

I just do not want to have to pay another 60+ dollars for a game I already own especially when it's supposed to be better with the full first game on the console it was released for in the first place.
It's a little thing I like to call CONSOLE CONTINUITY. 




[/quote]

The only kind of glitch i've experienced in ME2 is when Miranda glitched into the air and her genetically engineered ass was staring shep in the  face. I've never experienced dialogue glitches, and i've played through about 5 times.

FYI, on ALL my(and other peoples') subsequent playthroughs the sound disappears during the fight between Samara and Morinth,  And recently, whenever i pick up the shotgun upgrade on the prison ship Purgatory, the dialogue where Shepard states how the prisoners where using modified rounds and how the Blue Suns guards didn't stand a chance is missing, even though the subtitles clearly show he IS saying something.  And in the part where you finish talking to the batarian Tarak in Garrus''s reqruitment mission, it shows him quietly continuing his assault plan and in the span of that 2 seconds there is a huge hole on the center of his face.  Also recently, whenever I aim with the pistol and move it up and down, the gun jitters slightly up and down multiple times.   

[Alexander Kogan]

Alexander Kogan wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Alexander Kogan wrote...

 I believe in my honest to personal opinion that Bioware really needs to release a patch on xbox live to fix all those glitches with the sound not working correctly on several parts of the game.  Being how they developed ME2 for several years after the first one, you would think they would have fixed it by now.  

But no, instead the PS3 version gets special treatment with all the glitches fixed in that version.  Look I'm not hating on the PS3 at all, I have one as well as an xbox 360 and I love them both.  But Mass Effect 1 did not have sound problems at all, yet the 2nd one does and the irritating loss of dialogue or sound altogether in several areas of ME2 ruins the experience and sense of immersion.

I just do not want to have to pay another 60+ dollars for a game I already own especially when it's supposed to be better with the full first game on the console it was released for in the first place.
It's a little thing I like to call CONSOLE CONTINUITY. 

Gib_Shepard wrote...

The only kind of glitch i've experienced in ME2 is when Miranda glitched into the air and her genetically engineered ass was staring shep in the  face. I've never experienced dialogue glitches, and i've played through about 5 times.

FYI, on ALL my(and other peoples') subsequent playthroughs the sound disappears during the fight between Samara and Morinth,  And recently, whenever i pick up the shotgun upgrade on the prison ship Purgatory, the dialogue where Shepard states how the prisoners where using modified rounds and how the Blue Suns guards didn't stand a chance is missing, even though the subtitles clearly show he IS saying something.  And in the part where you finish talking to the batarian Tarak in Garrus''s reqruitment mission, it shows him quietly continuing his assault plan and in the span of that 2 seconds there is a huge hole on the center of his face.  Also recently, whenever I aim with the pistol and move it up and down, the gun jitters slightly up and down multiple times.  

Modifié par Alexander Kogan, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:58 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

Ah yes "Definitive version" The Turian Councilor dismissed that claim.

Modifié par PetrySilva, 26 décembre 2010 - 11:25 .