364 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashbery]

I think this an a OUTRAGE.I Should have the bloody option to have it on or not.

[Qset]

crimzontearz wrote...

Qset wrote...

This game still has an 18 rating doesn't it?

17 in the US but it is not a law.....yet

thanks for the info

Modifié par Qset, 19 décembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Amioran]

Vaeliorin wrote...

You're making quite the assumption.  Given that I am, in real life, a software programmer (though sadly not of games), I'm fully aware of the implications of including advanced user options in software.  The only thing that's necessary of a supported option is that it works as it states that it works.  Simply having the option labeled as "Friendly fire level.  May cause unexpected variations in difficulty." would be sufficient to warn players of the potential consequences. 

No, it would not, since anyway it's impossible to create a gameplay balance within a plausible range for everyone using it. "Unexpected variations in difficulty" is not what will happen, and people would complain to no end. 

Vaeliorin wrote...
This is no different than the config editor in Thunderbird telling me, when I click on it that "This might void your warranty!   Changing these advanced settings can be harmful to the stability, security, and performance of this application.  You should only continue if you are sure of what you are doing." Since a friendly fire toggle would be an advanced user option, it should only be used by users who have some awareness of how it will effect the game overall. 

A config editor is like changing engine parameters, it is a totally different thing than adding a toggle. You should know this already, from your work. Either adding a description like that to a toggle will make no sense. Toggle are used to give player options, but not to tailor specific engine parameters on the root. A game dev would NEVER add a toggle with these descriptions if not tied to something external, as an editor (so the context changes the function of the toggle), in your example.

Vaeliorin wrote...
Regardless, I reject your claim that it would break anything, because it would be an option that could be turned on or off at will.  While it might make a particular encounter much harder or much easier, I find the likelihood that it would make any encounter impossible highly unlikely, and if it did happen to make an encounter impossible, the player could simply change difficulty or the friendly fire toggle on the fly so as to make the encounter once again possible (though this might, horror of horrors, require a reload.)

Again this is not how things work. I already made the example of a toggle to show/hide helmets. If for some users that toggle will break face meshes people will rightly complain, no matter if they can revert the toggle back. The problem lies on the fact that you don't clearly get the difference from a toggle and an advanced engine parameter change in functionality. The two are different things and so are the expectation of people using the same.

Vaeliorin wrote...
The point is, that for those who would like the option, I see no reason not to add it as an advanced user option (essentially equivalent to modifying the .ini in my eyes, except less of a hassle and possible for people who are playing on consoles.)

No, modifying the .ini is another thing. A toggle is an option, can either be advanced but it is supported by the program. An .ini edit is something that's not supported, as it can be a change made by an editor. This is a fundamental difference, because expecation of users is totally different and so it is feedback you receive if things don't work as expected.

Modifié par Amioran, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:02 .

[Amioran]

TucoBenedicto wrote...
And again, how can it break anything?

It breaks balance of gameplay. The fact that you can revert it back doesn't change that people will complain just because Bioware was unable to make it work as expected, not breaking balance. Refer to my example on the helmet toggle for an analogy. It's the same thing. If you add a toggle then that toggle must work for the context it changes, because people will expect this functionality. It is inherent in a toggle, differently from an .ini change, or an editor one, for example.

TucoBenedicto wrote...
You are ignoring tons of games which allow users to create custom difficulty level relegating all the options to toggles.
Or, to better say it, you are assuming people are too stupid to read what they are clicking, and that's the problem both with you and Bioware.

I'm not ignoring anything. I already said what's the difference before. The toggles to whom you refer to don't change root parameters, they change specific ones. It is the difference of changing the context of a sentence and some single words, the effects are totally diffferent. Enabling/disabling FF is like changing many parameters at the same time, all at once without however the possibility to tailor the rest to the changes.

Modifié par Amioran, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[Ziggeh]

Ashbery wrote...

I think this an a OUTRAGE.I Should have the bloody option to have it on or not.

hah, you're entitled to it?

[Maria Caliban]

Ashbery wrote...

I think this an a OUTRAGE.I Should have the bloody option to have it on or not.

The Council would act if a turian colony were attacked!

[crimzontearz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ashbery wrote...

I think this an a OUTRAGE.I Should have the bloody option to have it on or not.

The Council would act if a turian colony were attacked!

ah yes......"options"

[Xewaka]

crimzontearz wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Ashbery wrote...

I think this an a OUTRAGE.I Should have the bloody option to have it on or not.

The Council would act if a turian colony were attacked!

ah yes......"options"

You forgot the:


I'd still like to see friendly fire on difficulties other than Nightmare, though. We had it on Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age Origins. Why take away something that makes the game more challenging and fun?

[Ziggeh]

Xewaka wrote...

Why take away something that makes the game more challenging and fun?

When it presents a problem.

[Xewaka]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Why take away something that makes the game more challenging and fun?

When it presents a problem.

Why did it suddenly present a problem when the precedent points otherwise?

[Brockololly]

Xewaka wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Why take away something that makes the game more challenging and fun?

When it presents a problem.

Why did it suddenly present a problem when the precedent points otherwise?

Same reason they got rid of iso view when Origins had it.

[Piecake]

I still think hard/nightmare=FF, Easy/normal=no FF makes the most sense

[Xewaka]

Brockololly wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Why take away something that makes the game more challenging and fun?

When it presents a problem.

Why did it suddenly present a problem when the precedent points otherwise?

Same reason they got rid of iso view when Origins had it.

With reasons like that, it's getting harder to me not to equate console = dumbed down gameplay these days.

[Maria Caliban]

ME2 had FF?

[Xewaka]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME2 had FF?

Yes. The Cain could kill Shepard.

[Ziggeh]

Xewaka wrote...

Why did it suddenly present a problem when the precedent points otherwise?

Precedent as in origins? The answer to that is that it's not Origins. It has different issues.

I didn't balance the game, so obviously, can't say exactly what the issues are, but given that even when it is on on Nightmare, it's at reduced capacity for certain abilities, it's clearly something they've considered. They haven't removed it wholesale, which suggests it's something at least someone there feels is important.

Also, what's the alternative? They removed it for the purpose of trolling?

Modifié par ziggehunderslash, 20 décembre 2010 - 12:48 .

[crimzontearz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME2 had FF?

I think only with the Cain......and even then I'm not 100% certain

[Piecake]

Xewaka wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Same reason they got rid of iso view when Origins had it.

With reasons like that, it's getting harder to me not to equate console = dumbed down gameplay these days.

If the camera is better in DA2 than DAO why does it matter?  Frankly, I thought DAO's camera had issues, not being fully free roaming and the camera just tweaking out when you brought it over redcliffe's castle gate, among others.

If the camera in DA2 is at an angle where you can fully see the field and not not have instances where it just tweaks out, then i'd say that would be an improvement.  there are a few instanes where I am worried about it though, so I guess we will just have to wait and see

[Maria Caliban]

Xewaka wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME2 had FF?

Yes. The Cain could kill Shepard.

I had no idea.

I'm going to drop a nuke on Jack.

[Xewaka]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Why did it suddenly present a problem when the precedent points otherwise?

Precedent as in origins? The answer to that is that it's not Origins. It has different issues.

I didn't balance the game, so obviously, can't say exactly what the issues are, but given that even when it is on on Nightmare, it's at reduced capacity for certain abilities, it's clearly something they've considered. They haven't removed it wholesale, which suggests it's something at least someone there feels is important.

Also, what's the alternative? They removed it for the purpose of trolling?

Precedent as in Origins and the Infinite Engine based games. This might well be their first RPG where Friendly Fire is the exception rather than the norm. (I wouldn't call Mass Effect a RPG, but rather a TPS with a little RPG duct-taped on it).

[biostarfan]

damn it, I liked friendly fire and I can't imagine myself playing on nightmare...

[crimzontearz]

Xewaka wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ME2 had FF?

Yes. The Cain could kill Shepard.

mind you it's not "really" friendly fire unless it can actually kill your party too technically

but if I remember correctly it can

[Morroian]

biostarfan wrote...

damn it, I liked friendly fire and I can't imagine myself playing on nightmare...

Nightmare on DAO really wasn't hugely difficult. I never play on the hardest settings on games yet by the end of my first playthrough of DAO I had increased it to nightmare.

[Ziggeh]

Xewaka wrote...
This might well be their first RPG where Friendly Fire is the exception rather than the norm.

Might also be the first game with the precise problems presented by DA2's combat.