37007 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

blaidfiste wrote...

Yep, Dawnguard. She has additional lines if you are Volkihar and do what you're supposed to do.

That's interesting. I was always disappointed that she never seemed to acknowledge a fellow Volkihar in the Dark Brotherhood, while Arnbjorn recognized if the protagonist was Moon-Born. Unfortunately, I'm on the PS3, so I can't check it out personally.

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

That's something I always wonder. Why do people like that Dark Brotherhood so much? To me they just seem like a psychopaths piled together killing for some god entitiy and some burnt woman's corpse. I like assassins guilds as much as the next guy but I dislike that the Dark Brotherhood kills for more than just money. 

Tastes differ, I suppose. I like them. The members of the Cheydinhal Sanctuary were the most fleshed out characters in Oblivion; they were friendly to the protagonist, had their own backstories and personalities, and some had a sense of humor (even if it was perverse at times); it just happened to be that they were assassins, and only some of them worship Sithis.

[BigEvil]

I've finally gotten my new character to a presentable state. We need more pirates in Skyrim, so here is Captain 'Redbeard' Grum the Orc.

"Ahaahahaahahaa me hearties!"


"Ahhhhh, you have a woman's purse milord! I'll wager that purse has never been used as a rowing-boat. I'll wager its never had sixteen ship-wreaked mariners tossing in it."


"You're nought but a lapdog to a slip of a girl!"


Captain 'Redbeard' Grum is off to adventure 'round Skyrim with his trusty axe, his faithful saber, and his useless cabin boy Faendal! Mead and ale for everyone! Except Faendal.

For those wondering where this mad Orc sprang from, watch the following clip of Blackadder: www.youtube.com/watch

[Elhanan]

BigEvil wrote...


Yeah, keeping a job from someone who might actually need the coin and a secret relationship with one of the other useless poncy nobles, which Anoriath knows about anyway. Kind of makes you wonder, who might have it in for the relatively polite hunter/food seller to go to the trouble of performing the black sacrement to get the Dark Brotherhood to off him. Hmmm.

Which citizen is losing the job? The beggar? One of the elderly? Or is this more conjecture based on her status as a noble? Perhaps she is actually the one most qualified for the job.

And even as a DB contract, evidence is still required as to who did the hiring. Or is being born into nobility enough by itself to merit guilt? The Wiki info does not seem to mention a name, though there appear to be several possible people of interest considering the Companions also have a reason to lay a beatdown on the Elf.

As far as her attitude towards men, I give her a break considering the ones she may happen to see on a daily basis (eg; bard, beggar, lollygagger, Daedric drunk, etc).

[LobselVith8]

And you get to kill Valen Dreth. Valen Dreth! That annoying s'wit from the dungeon. That alone made the Dark Brotherhood worth it for me.

I wonder how Romlyn Dreth is related to him, since I heard he tells stories about Valen in the Bee and Barb.

greengoron89 wrote...

That is an extremely bizarre glitch - I've never seen anything like it (even in a Bethesda game), nor could I comprehend what aberration of coding might cause such a thing.

So I usually just avoid ever doing Promises to Keep anymore - I get tired of putting arrows through Letrush's ever-spawning clones' heads after the thousandth time.

The clones seem to be the result of the random Letrush encounters that keep happening, even if the mercenary killed him already. The problem seems to be that the clones aren't disabled like Frost is (if you hand him over). If you keep Frost, there's only one Letrush standing around.

[blaidfiste]

BigEvil wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

BigEvil wrote...

Oh please, her pathetic pep talk is completely wasted on all of my female characters. She skulks around the top end of Whiterun where there's never any trouble unless said trouble is the Dragonborn, political standing or not she lives in one of the biggest houses in Whiterun and is part of one of the richest families. I don't have any respect for poncy nobles unless they actually do something.

Sorry, but she gets bonuses from me for actually working at night as a waitress, and pulling off a relationship with Jon Batle-Born. While I cannot stand the professional lollygagger, the notion that she is able to see him on the sly is fairly secretly is impressive.

Yeah, keeping a job from someone who might actually need the coin and a secret relationship with one of the other useless poncy nobles, which Anoriath knows about anyway. Kind of makes you wonder, who might have it in for the relatively polite hunter/food seller to go to the trouble of performing the black sacrement to get the Dark Brotherhood to off him. Hmmm.

Lol you really thought this through!

[BigEvil]

Elhanan wrote...

BigEvil wrote...


Yeah, keeping a job from someone who might actually need the coin and a secret relationship with one of the other useless poncy nobles, which Anoriath knows about anyway. Kind of makes you wonder, who might have it in for the relatively polite hunter/food seller to go to the trouble of performing the black sacrement to get the Dark Brotherhood to off him. Hmmm.

Which citizen is losing the job? The beggar? One of the elderly? Or is this more conjecture based on her status as a noble? Perhaps she is actually the one most qualified for the job.

And even as a DB contract, evidence is still required as to who did the hiring. Or is being born into nobility enough by itself to merit guilt? The Wiki info does not seem to mention a name, though there appear to be several possible people of interest considering the Companions also have a reason to lay a beatdown on the Elf.

As far as her attitude towards men, I give her a break considering the ones she may happen to see on a daily basis (eg; bard, beggar, lollygagger, Daedric drunk, etc).

Where did I say losing the job, I said she's keeping the job from someone who might actually need the coin. It's pretty simple, the Gray-Manes are clearly very well off compared to most in Whiterun, someone else, doesn't matter who they are or if they even exist, could get more out of that job than she could. If you can't see that, then I can't be bothered discussing this further with you.

So what if he can be one of the people you brawl for the Companions, it's a radiant quest. One of my characters had to beat up Acadia, another had to beat up the guy at the stables and I think Belethor is also a possibility. That's not evidence of anything. But we have definate proof via a conversation between Anoriath and Olfina that he knows about her and Jon. That gives her, or Jon, a reason to remove him. Are there any other conversations he has where a reason for his contract pops up? Or conversations between other people in Whiterun that could point to someone else as the one to hire the DB?

[Elhanan]

His brother was shot in the rump, and does not appear to have much remourse if encountered as an Assassin (per Wiki). And someone had to hire the Companions to to beat the Elf, so there are other suspects, Radiant quest or not. She may be the guily party, but there is no proof; only speculation. And having a motive is not proof, as Nazeem still breathing in Whiterun is fairly good evidence that it takes something a bit more than simple motivation.

And those from wealthy families can also make excellent workers, and have the same right to independence; personally like it better when they actually try to work. It is the entitled ones like Harrald that I dislike. If she was doing a poor job and getting by on her name alone, then I could see she was taking up space, but there is no evidence to support this either.

[Yrkoon]

BigEvil wrote...
Where did I say losing the job, I said she's keeping the job from someone who might actually need the coin. It's pretty simple, the Gray-Manes are clearly very well off compared to most in Whiterun, someone else, doesn't matter who they are or if they even exist, could get more out of that job than she could. If you can't see that, then I can't be bothered discussing this further with you.

So... let me get this straight. You criticise her for being a rich noble who doesn't have to work. But  when it's pointed out to you that she actually Does work, you criticise her for... taking a job away from someone who would need it more.

Yeah,  So basically, whether or not she has a job makes no difference.   So lets be honest and cut out the  "jobs" red herring.  You just  hate her because she's a noble.


Me personally, I give Olfina points for being the hottest woman in Whiterun.  She literally makes the entire city  easier on the eyes.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 26 août 2012 - 09:51 .

[Giggles_Manically]

So started my new Dunmer run.

I enjoy using Fury on people.
Cant wait to kick some Stormcloak ass after I get to Windhelm.

[blaidfiste]

 ...

[Addai]

BigEvil wrote...

Yeah, keeping a job from someone who might actually need the coin and a secret relationship with one of the other useless poncy nobles, which Anoriath knows about anyway. Kind of makes you wonder, who might have it in for the relatively polite hunter/food seller to go to the trouble of performing the black sacrement to get the Dark Brotherhood to off him. Hmmm.

The Grey-Manes are not rich, that's one of the things the Battle Borns look down on them for.  All of them work for a living- though I guess you'd say Vignar is retired.  None of them are exactly "poncy."    They are more the Viking sort of nobles, the ones who got that standing because they were warriors, not because they happen to be rich.

edit- I do love your pirate orc.  ROFL

Modifié par Addai67, 27 août 2012 - 12:06 .

[BigEvil]

Yrkoon wrote...

BigEvil wrote...
Where did I say losing the job, I said she's keeping the job from someone who might actually need the coin. It's pretty simple, the Gray-Manes are clearly very well off compared to most in Whiterun, someone else, doesn't matter who they are or if they even exist, could get more out of that job than she could. If you can't see that, then I can't be bothered discussing this further with you.

So... let me get this straight. You criticise her for being a rich noble who doesn't have to work. But  when it's pointed out to you that she actually Does work, you criticise her for... taking a job away from someone who would need it more.

Ehh, no, that's not what I said. I criticise her for being a noble who talks about being strong, yet does nothing to back that up. And I criticise her for taking a job (a non-warrior related job) from someone who would need it more. Two seperate things, one about nobles who talk a good game but don't do anything to back it up, the other about rich people taking jobs that are unnecessary to them. You notice that as rich and arrogant as Nazeem is, he isn't doing a commoner's job on top of that. If she's such a warrior, why doesn't she do something related to that, or learn the smithing trade from Eorlund? Someone like Ysolda or hell, yeah, Brenuin, could get a lot more out of the job in the tavern than Olfina. I never said she shouldn't work, only that if she wants respect from my Dragonborns or me she should walk her talk, same as the rest of the lay-about, useless nobles in Whiterun. When my Dragonborn is standing there in armour made from the bones of dead dragons, recently returned from killing bandits, stopping vampires, and vanquishing necromancers, I don't have a great deal of respect for someone who tells my female characters to be strong (implying they're not) and gives my male characters ****.

@Addai - Sure, the Battle-Borns are richer and look down on them, but can you honestly say the Gray-Manes are not a fair bit better off than the majority of Whiterun? Also, glad someone likes 'Redbeard' Grum.

@Elhanan - Your first sentence has totally lost me. Are you talking about Anoriath's brother calling DB Dragonborns a wretch after the contract whether the kill was seen or not? You'll need to explain what you're talking about there.

Yeah, someone had to hire the Companions to beat him up, the same as any of the other radiant targets for that quest. My point is, because it's radiant rather than fixed, some players have done it, some have not, and it becomes a schrodingers cat situation. If you had to beat up Belethor instead, does that mean that nobody hired the Companions to beat up Anoriath, or that there wasn't a reason to hire them? What about Arcadia or the guy at the stables, in this instance, do they have a reason to be beaten up but the people with the reason don't bother to hire anyone? Everyone who plays through the DB questline gets that contract (if they take the side contracts) and the only way Anoriath doesn't die is if the player doesn't do the contract. Therefore there must be a reason to hire them. I've never said I've provided proof, only that it is a possibility in the game. Anoriath does have a conversation with Olfina where he makes it clear he knows about her and Jon.

Once again, I'll post the following two questions since you didn't bother answering them. Are there any other conversations he has where a reason for his contract pops up? Or conversations between other people in Whiterun that could point to someone else as the one to hire the DB? I've posited that either Olfina or Jon is the person who hires the DB to kill Anoriath, and given a valid reason for it, the conversation he has in the game with Olfina.

I'm not saying I'm right, there is no proof one way or the other, like just about everything in the game (no right or wrong siding with either civil war faction, etc), but you're talking about evidence and yet not even bothering to provide anything which even attempts to disprove it. Or provides another possibility for the person who takes out the contract.

Since, as you say, there is no proof, only speculation, why is my speculation (based on something which is in the game) bad and your speculation that because of the Companions quest there must be other possibilities, even though you don't know who they might be, good?

And everyone hates Harrald. Balimund perfectly points out why, which is why Balimund is awesome.

Modifié par BigEvil, 27 août 2012 - 01:15 .

[Yrkoon]

What is this? Is this your version of forum tag? You've changed your argument 3 times. First it's: she's a poncy noble who spends all her time in the cloud district, and doesn't deserve respect unless she actually does something. We then remind you that she Does do something. She works.  She's got a night job, sweeping floors at the tavern in the market district. And your response: She's taking a job away from someone who needs it more! (a baseless argument on its own,  since  Whiterun doesn't have an unemployment problem. The tavern keeper asks her guests to chop wood for the fire if they want to work)

Now you're giving us a  3rd argument, the diatrabe we see above..... rantings about Nobles, and the nature of nobles  or whatever.


No man, You don't have an argument, just some bizzare agenda against Nobility. Of course, just about everyone who plays Skyrim becomes a noble themselves in whiterun (you're a Thane, remember?) Do you hate your own character?


Lastly, a sidenote really:

You notice that as rich and arrogant as Nazeem is, he isn't doing a commoner's job on top of that.

You're right. He doesn't work at all. Not even at the farm he says he owns. Instead, he Loiters (or lollygags) 16 hours a day, then sleeps at the drunken huntsman the other 8. Is that supposed to garner more respect from anyone than seeing a noble  actually getting her hands dirty with manual labor?

why doesn't she do something related to that, or learn the smithing trade from Eorlund? Someone like Ysolda

Ysolda doesn't work either. She's still a "student". And sweeping floors would not further her education. She will instantly take over the Tavern if the tavern keeper dies, btw.

Again, what kind of warped, backwards mindset  demands that we look down on nobles who are actually not above doing common labor, while at the same time  respecting nobles who do nothing?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 août 2012 - 01:54 .

[Elhanan]

BigEvil wrote...

Ehh, no, that's not what I said. I criticise her for being a noble who talks about being strong, yet does nothing to back that up. And I criticise her for taking a job (a non-warrior related job) from someone who would need it more. Two seperate things, one about nobles who talk a good game but don't do anything to back it up, the other about rich people taking jobs that are unnecessary to them. You notice that as rich and arrogant as Nazeem is, he isn't doing a commoner's job on top of that. If she's such a warrior, why doesn't she do something related to that, or learn the smithing trade from Eorlund? Someone like Ysolda or hell, yeah, Brenuin, could get a lot more out of the job in the tavern than Olfina. I never said she shouldn't work, only that if she wants respect from my Dragonborns or me she should walk her talk, same as the rest of the lay-about, useless nobles in Whiterun. When my Dragonborn is standing there in armour made from the bones of dead dragons, recently returned from killing bandits, stopping vampires, and vanquishing necromancers, I don't have a great deal of respect for someone who tells my female characters to be strong (implying they're not) and gives my male characters ****.

@Addai - Sure, the Battle-Borns are richer and look down on them, but can you honestly say the Gray-Manes are not a fair bit better off than the majority of Whiterun? Also, glad someone likes 'Redbeard' Grum.

@Elhanan - Your first sentence has totally lost me. Are you talking about Anoriath's brother calling DB Dragonborns a wretch after the contract whether the kill was seen or not? You'll need to explain what you're talking about there.

Yeah, someone had to hire the Companions to beat him up, the same as any of the other radiant targets for that quest. My point is, because it's radiant rather than fixed, some players have done it, some have not, and it becomes a schrodingers cat situation. If you had to beat up Belethor instead, does that mean that nobody hired the Companions to beat up Anoriath, or that there wasn't a reason to hire them? What about Arcadia or the guy at the stables, in this instance, do they have a reason to be beaten up but the people with the reason don't bother to hire anyone? Everyone who plays through the DB questline gets that contract (if they take the side contracts) and the only way Anoriath doesn't die is if the player doesn't do the contract. Therefore there must be a reason to hire them. I've never said I've provided proof, only that it is a possibility in the game. Anoriath does have a conversation with Olfina where he makes it clear he knows about her and Jon.

Once again, I'll post the following two questions since you didn't bother answering them. Are there any other conversations he has where a reason for his contract pops up? Or conversations between other people in Whiterun that could point to someone else as the one to hire the DB? I've posited that either Olfina or Jon is the person who hires the DB to kill Anoriath, and given a valid reason for it, the conversation he has in the game with Olfina.

I'm not saying I'm right, there is no proof one way or the other, like just about everything in the game (no right or wrong siding with either civil war faction, etc), but you're talking about evidence and yet not even bothering to provide anything which even attempts to disprove it. Or provides another possibility for the person who takes out the contract.

Since, as you say, there is no proof, only speculation, why is my speculation (based on something which is in the game) bad and your speculation that because of the Companions quest there must be other possibilities, even though you don't know who they might be, good?

And everyone hates Harrald. Balimund perfectly points out why, which is why Balimund is awesome.

Nazeem is a farm owner, yet sleeps in the loft of the Drunken Huntsman. Should we add taking up room others may use to his list?

Olfina may become Jarl if her uncle is slain, thus displaying her possible worth. And strength has to do with will, drive, and the like; not only in the slaying of Dragons. Mind you, I do not like her at all, but Maven may be one of the strongest NPC's in the game.

From the Wiki:

If Anoriath is killed while in his bedroom, Amren (if he happens to be in the drunken huntsman) may enter the room, saying: "What's done, is done."

As for other possible motive:


If following the Dark Brotherhood side quests, the Dragonborn may be tasked with killing his brother. Once done so, he will sometimes begin dialogue by saying, "Something you need, you miserable wretch?" even if his brother is killed in secret. He will also use unique dialogue depending on the Dragonborn's race. Elrindir gives no further indication that he is upset about his brother's death, and will not send Hired Thugs after the Dragonborn.
One day, whilst hunting under the influence of some mead, Elrindir and his brother went out hunting; however, Anoriath mistook Elrindir for a deer and fired an arrow into his "rump".

Is this possible payback? Jealousy over health and ability?

And what of the Battle-Borns? Surely they cannot be exactly happy for the same reason that you gave; scandal like that may hurt their Imperial influence.

And maybe someone simply did not care for the venison. Folks are dying for less in the game already.

Modifié par Elhanan, 27 août 2012 - 01:58 .

[BigEvil]

Yrkoon wrote...

What is this? Is this your version of forum tag? You've changed your argument 3 times. First it's: she's a poncy noble who spends all her time in the cloud district, and doesn't deserve respect unless she actually does something. We then remind you that she Does do something. She works got a night job, sweeping floors at the tavern in the market district. And your response: She's taking a job away from someone who needs it more!

No, my argument came in two parts and you have misinterpreted it. The first part of my argument was about her dialogue to the PC, that she claims to be strong, yet does nothing to back this up. It has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with actions. The job had not been mentioned in the discussion at that point (that I had seen), by me or the poster I was directly quoting at the time. The part about the job only came about when Elhanan mentioned her job in the tavern when he quoted me. If Elhanan had not quoted me, I would not have replied directly to what he said. Since the poster I was originally quoting said nothing about her job in the tavern I had no reason to say anything about it. I'm sorry if I didn't anticipate someone else adding something to the discussion. Maybe I should have gone back to the future and prepared my argument with Elhanan before he replied to me.

Also, I like how you go out of your way to say that WE pointed out that she does something, like you helped Elhanan write his post or something. As far as I can see you didn't get involved in this until Elhanan and I had exchanged a couple of posts.

I really can't be bothered with this anymore. I have an opinion about something in the game, you disagree with my opinion, but rather than discuss it you'd rather twist my words.

[Yrkoon]

BigEvil wrote...


No, my argument came in two parts and you have misinterpreted it. The first part of my argument was about her dialogue to the PC, that she claims to be strong, yet does nothing to back this up.

Sure she does.  She's a stormcloak supporter.   Which means she's brave/strong enough to side against the status quo.    She also has unlimited Energy  (she's one of the few NPCs in the game who never sleeps).  Later she can become Jarl of whiterun.  If all this doesn't make her a strong woman then....  what would?  Does she have to exchange her dagger for a battleaxe and start one-shotting vampires and dragons in order to fit  your personal definition of Strong?

 

It has nothing to do with jobs, and everything to do with actions. The job had not been mentioned in the discussion at that point (that I had seen), by me or the poster I was directly quoting at the time. The part about the job only came about when Elhanan mentioned her job in the tavern when he quoted me.

You mean when he corrected you.  You  did falsely claim that she spends all her time in the upper side of Whiterun, doing nothing.

Also, I like how you go out of your way to say that WE pointed out that she does something, like you helped Elhanan write his post or something.

 
Yeah, We, as in more than one person.   And it was warranted, since you're STILL, arguing that she does nothing, even  after WE reminded you that she works all night..

I really can't be bothered with this anymore.

Just as well.  This has been one of the stupidest debates this thread as seen.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 août 2012 - 02:18 .

[The Hierophant]

Call me slow but i just discovered that Braith is Amren's, and Saffir's daughter. Is it mentioned that she is adopted or did Saffir have an obvious affair? If it's the case of the latter...

Maury: In the case of 8 year old Braith, Amren you are...(cuts to commercial break)

Maury: Amren in the case of 8 year old Braith. You are not the father!

Amren: Yeah, i told told you! (starts pop locking)

Saffir: Noooooo!!! (in shock while tears streams down her cheeks, Saffir runs away)

Modifié par The Hierophant, 27 août 2012 - 02:34 .

[Yrkoon]

Yeah. we should go back and continue the Console vs. PC war you tried to start a few pages back. Maybe that one is "legitimate" enough lol

[The Hierophant]

ladies please!

[Laser Beam]

Yrkoon wrote...

Just as well.  This has been one of the stupidest debates this thread as seen.

It's a video-game thread, you can argue about whatever you want. Just don't take it personal because that's what makes it stupid. My gosh.

[Addai]

BigEvil wrote...
@Addai - Sure, the Battle-Borns are richer and look down on them, but can you honestly say the Gray-Manes are not a fair bit better off than the majority of Whiterun? Also, glad someone likes 'Redbeard' Grum.

They have a big house, but that could just be inherited.  They all dress quite plainly and Fralia sits at a stand all day just like Carlotta and Anoriath- she doesn't even own a storefront like Arcadia or Belethor.  And then there's Eorlund.  Don't you be dissin Eorlund, there is a Nord's Nord. 

As for who hires the DB for Anoriath, no idea.  I can't see Olfina doing something like that.  I don't get all the hate for her.  There are lots of more deserving targets of that even in Whiterun.  Whatever...

Modifié par Addai67, 27 août 2012 - 03:32 .

[The Hierophant]

Addai67 wrote...

BigEvil wrote...
@Addai - Sure, the Battle-Borns are richer and look down on them, but can you honestly say the Gray-Manes are not a fair bit better off than the majority of Whiterun? Also, glad someone likes 'Redbeard' Grum.

They have a big house, but that could just be inherited.  They all dress quite plainly and Fralia sits at a stand all day just like Carlotta and Anoriath- she doesn't even own a storefront like Arcadia or Belethor.  And then there's Eorlund.  Don't you be dissin Eorlund, there is a Nord's Nord. 

As for who hires the DB for Anoriath, no idea.  I can't see Olfina doing something like that.  I don't get all the hate for her.  There are lots of more deserving targets of that even in Whiterun.  Whatever...

Did you notice that Ofina's, and Olfrid's names are similiar? <being irrational> Omg Fralia cheated on Eorland like Saffir cheated on Amren!

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

Call me slow but i just discovered that Braith is Amren's, and Saffir's daughter. Is it mentioned that she is adopted or did Saffir have an obvious affair? If it's the case of the latter...

Maury: In the case of 8 year old Braith, Amren you are...(cuts to commercial break)

Maury: Amren in the case of 8 year old Braith. You are not the father!

Amren: Yeah, i told told you! (starts pop locking)

Saffir: Noooooo!!! (in shock while tears streams down her cheeks, Saffir runs away)

It's not an isolated case; I kept wondering why female Redguards had children that looked nothing like them when children are supposed to take after the mother.