37007 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Oh yeah I get that. I meant the actual green bar of stamina. I thought maybe you were using it for stealth rolls and such. I seem to have enough at 200.

Carrying capacity... well, no, can't have enough of that

Modifié par termokanden, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:12 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Of course I also do stealth rolls and aiming down my visor with my bow, but you don't need 450 stamina for that. 200 is enough for combat purposes. But if you're a kleptomaniac like me who loots every single house, cave or dungeon, you'll need lots of carrying capacity. And for that you need lots of stamina.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Gotholhorakh]

happy_daiz wrote...

Yeah, that would be pretty tough. Although my characters always do the Daedric quests; I don't really consider them to be evil, per se. They mostly just want the booty at the end of the rainbow.

Yeah - not yet played any character with a dark side for more than about five minutes and have ended up sticking to my one truth-and-justice based Stormcloak character.

Trouble is that means no thieving, no Daedric stuff, nothing. Got to do a dark character soon, probably a vampire TBH.

re: ice spammers, got ganked in a cramped space the other day by a fireball spammer and an ice spammer at once and my first shout/spells hit nothing! Of course they go down like they're made of paper, but I think very spammy fire mages that make it hard to see where they are, are one of the most enjoyable things to fight indoors.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 09 novembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Why are so many gamers such pansies? No offense, but I read it so often that people feel unable to play a ruthless, evil or sadistic character. Plenty of Mass Effect fans refuse to play Renegade. Plenty of Skyrim fans refuse to play the Dark Brotherhood or do the Daedra quests. Plenty of Dragon Age fans refuse to use blood magic or make deals with demons. etc. etc.

It's not only that they just refuse to play such characters, they even say they're UNABLE to play such a character. What kind of p*ssy behavior is that?


Almost ALL my characters are ruthless savages. My Commader Shepard was a true renegade. My Skyrim character is a Sithis worshipping vampire assassin who's goal it is to collect all the power in Skyrim (dragon souls, shouts, Daedric artifacts and dragon priest masks). My Dragon Age: Origins character was a blood mage. Etc. etc. etc.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:09 .

[termokanden]

Well, it depends on how well-written the game is.

But just running around killing random people because it gives you +10 Evil each time is not so much fun. If you just define evil as wanting to inflict pain and suffering, I think games often boil down to a mindless massacre.

It's not just about my personal beliefs. I know the difference between real life and a game. It has to be interesting, and in many games, being evil is exactly the opposite.

Now that you mention Renegade, some of the Renegade options did seem like you were just being a jerk to gain Renegade points. The idea is good - the end justifies the means. But I never really felt like I got anywhere faster or easier because I chose a Renegade option (in fact there's at least one place where the Renegade option is more difficult!). Wasn't that the point of it all? And the evil look your character gets doesn't exactly help me to believe it isn't just the good old choice of Good vs Evil ™.

Honestly I prefer a game where there are just choices and NPCs will react to them. You do what you think your character would do, plain and simple. A good example is Dragon Age: Origins. There's no good or evil. Different characters just have different motivations, and they will judge your actions accordingly.

Modifié par termokanden, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:36 .

[The Heretic of Time]

I agree termokanden. That's why I love The Witcher (2) so much. No good or evil there, only shades of grey. Whatever choice you make in The Witcher (2), you know that someone somewhere is going to be pissed off. That's cool.

It's just that I hate goody-two-shoes good characters even more than moustache-twirling evil characters.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 09 novembre 2012 - 01:57 .

[Yrkoon]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why are so many gamers such pansies? No offense, but I read it so often that people feel unable to play a ruthless, evil or sadistic character. Plenty of Mass Effect fans refuse to play Renegade. Plenty of Skyrim fans refuse to play the Dark Brotherhood or do the Daedra quests. Plenty of Dragon Age fans refuse to use blood magic or make deals with demons. etc. etc.

It's not only that they just refuse to play such characters, they even say they're UNABLE to play such a character. What kind of p*ssy behavior is that?


Almost ALL my characters are ruthless savages. My Commader Shepard was a true renegade. My Skyrim character is a Sithis worshipping vampire assassin who's goal it is to collect all the power in Skyrim (dragon souls, shouts, Daedric artifacts and dragon priest masks). My Dragon Age: Origins character was a blood mage. Etc. etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely *love* playing evil. . . .  in games where playing evil actually means something.    You know,  where  Evil is a tad more imaginative/creative than just:   "ME SMASH KITTENS AND EAT OLD LADY HEARTS   MUHAHAHAHA."

There are some games that do evil really well,   And then there are some that don't. 

The good games  have different shades of black.    You can screw people over, instead of just chopping their heads off for the lulz. You can  foil a hero's plans, instead of just laying waste to him and his family.  You can Side with the game's antagonist and subtly work to make the  world  a more dismal place to live in....  instead of just siding with  a Demon or whatever   just so that you can depopulate the world, one citizen at a time.  You can actually use Deception.    Pretend to be Good, and get on good terms with the good guys, and maintain that deception just long enough to betray them in epic fashion once you've gained their full trust.  THAT is how you do evil well.  Skyrim dropped the ball on this one in a few areas.    For example, The Stormcloak vs. Imperial questline could have been so much better had  we been given the option to infiltrate the ranks and betray the side that we did all the missions for. 


But Games that do evil well are very rare.  More often than not, Developers just slap together a stupid mindless evil option to round out the "roleplaying" spectrum.   Inevidably  Evil always just  = black-hearted-killer in those games.    So what you end up getting is a game with 3 options:  1) be heroic;  2) be neutral or 3) be a mindless sadist.  ::::yawn::::

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Plenty of Skyrim fans refuse to play the Dark Brotherhood or do the Daedra quests.

None of the regulars on this thread.  I can assure you of that.  The general consensus here is that the DB questline is one of the best in this game.  And the Daedric quests...  Well, there's 15 of them, and they vary wildly from evil to not-evil-at-all,  so it's hard to even pin them down.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[happy_daiz]

xiiFezz wrote...
Ive always wanted to make a Breton... but I have no idea what kind of playstyle to do.. I have a lv 52 wood elf archer and 42ish nord dual wield. I might do 2h anyone have a high lv 2h. Any good higher up?

I agree with what everyone else is saying regarding Bretons, but for actual build, I've started moving away from traditional racial builds. I mean...initial bonuses in a particular skill are nice, but any race can work to get to, and surpass, that level.  And how boring is the expected "Altmer mage" or "Nord 2-handed warrior"? 

I mostly just pay attention to resistances now, and/or what the race looks like. What can I say, I'm shallow.

Although I do recommend Khajiit mages. Nobody seems to expect it. Well, maybe J'Zargo.

But yeah, Bretons. I love them. I have three of them.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:39 .

[happy_daiz]

BTW, all this talk lately of Dragonborn inspired me to create a new character last night. I was going to dust off my Argonian, but instead, started a new game. I was thinking of yet another Redguard, or maybe another Nord, but Bosmer was calling out to me.

I gave in to the urge, and I have a brand new Bosmer dual sword wielder named Falen G'nesh. She's my first official dual wielder, but I suspect she's itching to get her hands on a bow. And I may switch her over to axes or maces; not sure yet (any advice would be welcome).

It's weird; I rarely ever play Bosmers, but I have a good feeling about this one.

And I love what Elrindir says when you speak to him in the Drunken Huntsman if you're Bosmer. Kinda makes me wish you could marry him.

Total sidenote, but I brawled with Benor in Morthal, and took him on as a follower. He's quite effective, at least at early levels. We got attacked east of Falkreath by a group of bandits and vampires (one right after the other), and he smoked them handily.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:12 .

[Elhanan]

Personally, I do not play Evil characters much anymore, and almost never in a m/p environment.

The main reason is that such past behaviour from my own play and others absolutely devestated our PnP group back in my early years of gaming in the late 70's. It caused some players to quit, and nurtured an air of mistrust in some of the remaining players. For examples, I killed an entire party save one for the entire party treasure; half of which never played again. And when I killed one player for RP reasons, she did not defend herself due to RL trust, as she was my fiance. And I assure you, that night did not end well in either case....

Other reasons include my personal dislike for such storylines, as I choose not to pursue tales of cannabalism in the Daedric quests, turning on Paarth for the Blades, etc; have never tried either path. And such poor choices may bleed over to RL for some players due to frequent practice. While such extreme examples may never occur, such choices as lying, deception, disloyalty, etc may be increased in RL from such practiced IG behaviour. It may not happen frequently or to such extremes, but such examples of like behavioral exceptions have seemed to occur in seral serial and spree killers. I simply prefer not to choose those like paths; gaming included.

And I can live with the disdain this may bring by simply considering the sources....

Modifié par Elhanan, 09 novembre 2012 - 03:32 .

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...
And such poor choices may bleed over to RL for some players due to frequent practice. While such extreme examples may never occur, such choices as lying, deception, disloyalty, etc may be increased in RL from such practiced IG behaviour. It may not happen frequently or to such extremes, but such examples of like behavioral exceptions have seemed to occur in seral serial and spree killers. I simply prefer not to choose those like paths; gaming included.
 

Indeed.  Why, just the other day I  caught myself trying to Soul Trap   my boss.

I'm frightened of what I've become.

[Splinter Cell 108]

greengoron89 wrote...

Please point where anyone here is playing a "goody-two-shoes" character.

I'd say mine are but that all ends when most of them ended up as vampires, werewolves or simply decided to kill that old lady because the Dark Brotherhood wronged them. Aside from that, the one guy I don't have as a vampire right now, will join the Dawnguard and they aren't all that good either since they're willing to kill a group of people because they think they are all naturally evil. 

There's no good and evil in Skyrim, every guild has their dirty secret. The Companions are werewolves and mercenaries not really all that different from the Dark Brotherhood since in the end they are just hired killers in the end, the thieves are well thieves but at least they refrain from killing poeple when possible and the college supports necromancy and other illegal magics. The only thing the devs should have made better is the people's perception towards the Dragonborn but that isn't all that important to me anyways. Oh yeah and lets not even forget about the stormcloaks and the imperials, which is a real dilemma in my opinion, I always side with the imperials but sometimes I wonder if that is the right thing to do. 

[happy_daiz]

Yrkoon wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
And such poor choices may bleed over to RL for some players due to frequent practice. While such extreme examples may never occur, such choices as lying, deception, disloyalty, etc may be increased in RL from such practiced IG behaviour. It may not happen frequently or to such extremes, but such examples of like behavioral exceptions have seemed to occur in seral serial and spree killers. I simply prefer not to choose those like paths; gaming included.
 

Indeed.  Why, just the other day I  caught myself trying to Soul Trap my boss.

I'm frightened of what I've become.

That's funny. All of it. 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 09 novembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[Addai]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why are so many gamers such pansies? No offense, but I read it so often that people feel unable to play a ruthless, evil or sadistic character. Plenty of Mass Effect fans refuse to play Renegade. Plenty of Skyrim fans refuse to play the Dark Brotherhood or do the Daedra quests. Plenty of Dragon Age fans refuse to use blood magic or make deals with demons. etc. etc.

It's not only that they just refuse to play such characters, they even say they're UNABLE to play such a character. What kind of p*ssy behavior is that?


Almost ALL my characters are ruthless savages. My Commader Shepard was a true renegade. My Skyrim character is a Sithis worshipping vampire assassin who's goal it is to collect all the power in Skyrim (dragon souls, shouts, Daedric artifacts and dragon priest masks). My Dragon Age: Origins character was a blood mage. Etc. etc. etc.

Different people have different fantasies.  I don't play "evil for the lulz" characters myself, but I do prefer shades of grey.  My Shepard was renegon, I played several blood mages in DA, etc.  However for some people, being a paladin do-gooder is what they like to play.   They get to be a hero and feel good about it.  It's not a matter of "being a ****."  It's a game, not a job.  Some people just can't connect to an evil character and don't have fun inhabiting their world.

[slimgrin]

Usually play a backstabbing, self-serving assassin type bastard in Bethesda's games. Can't help myself.

[Shadow Fox]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Why are so many gamers such pansies? No offense, but I read it so often that people feel unable to play a ruthless, evil or sadistic character. Plenty of Mass Effect fans refuse to play Renegade. Plenty of Skyrim fans refuse to play the Dark Brotherhood or do the Daedra quests. Plenty of Dragon Age fans refuse to use blood magic or make deals with demons. etc. etc.

It's not only that they just refuse to play such characters, they even say they're UNABLE to play such a character. What kind of p*ssy behavior is that?


Almost ALL my characters are ruthless savages. My Commader Shepard was a true renegade. My Skyrim character is a Sithis worshipping vampire assassin who's goal it is to collect all the power in Skyrim (dragon souls, shouts, Daedric artifacts and dragon priest masks). My Dragon Age: Origins character was a blood mage. Etc. etc. etc.

What can I say I like playing The Hero.

[Gotholhorakh]

Weird... vituperative language aside, are there really any people playing Skyrim who are "unable to" play a dark character? I suspect these people are few and far between, since playing a balls-out evil character is as easy as hell and the rewards come thick and fast with little or no consideration needed in any decision.

As for the question underlying people's RP 'alignment' choices for first, second, last playthrough etc. , well that gets a little bit complex because people have different reasons depending on their own personality, their mood, which game franchise/setting they're playing, completionism etc. For my part, I tend to switch to the darker characters in a TES game later on - because TES is OP central, and OP gets progressively more boring, the fewer boundaries you set for your character. Since it also means you get to fight everything and exhaust the content a bit, it is more of a later playthrough option for me - say after I've done a lawful character of each main faction, and a hunter and/or thief build.

Characters with no boundaries == RP cheatmode. There's only so many times your character can walk into a city and immolate everything because you were bored, before you stop getting less bored and the NPCs stop getting more dead.

Anyway, there's me bothering to answer a silly question with a silly answer - but it's Friday night and I have tea, a laptop and nowhere to go. Partay. <_<

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 09 novembre 2012 - 06:03 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Indeed.  Why, just the other day I  caught myself trying to Soul Trap   my boss.

I'm frightened of what I've become.

Not frightened of you, but what others became due to fantasied visualizations and practiced behaviours. While games do not create such monsters themselves, these monsters can play the same games. I prefer to choose other paths than theirs; not finding cannabalism and the like too entertaining anyway.

But again, I have other reasons above these, as my experiences have shown that playing Evil has not been the best selections for me.

[Addai]

There are a lot of complaints on BGS forum about the game not having enough rewards for paladin characters, you have to be a dark hero and consort with daedra, etc.

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Indeed.  Why, just the other day I  caught myself trying to Soul Trap   my boss.

I'm frightened of what I've become.

Not frightened of you, but what others became due to fantasied visualizations and practiced behaviours. While games do not create such monsters themselves, these monsters can play the same games. I prefer to choose other paths than theirs; not finding cannabalism and the like too entertaining anyway.

Hey, there are ways to soften the shock factor of  even cannibalism in Skyrim.  You can, for example, decide to only munch on Bandits.  And that raises  a couple of questions.  One moral and one societal.  

Moral:   if you're only eating the bad guys, are you still evil?  (bonus question:  if you're one of the animal races, ie. Khajit; Argonian, is eating men *ever* evil?  Hell,  can  you even call it Cannibalism in the first place?)
Societal: Exactly how possible is it for an easily influenced gamer to find bandits to feast on in the real world?

Edit: I'm only marginally serious here, as  this is a rather silly topic.  RPGs like skyrim don't even pretend to be real.   unlike games such as GTA and Call of Duty which, by their realistic natures,  can  influence impressionable teens much more effectively.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:07 .

[happy_daiz]

^ I'm just waiting for the Heretic to call you names for not practicing cannibalism or killing bandits in real life.

Geez, Yrkoon, represent.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 09 novembre 2012 - 07:08 .

[Endurium]

My favorite way to play these games is to rise a hero then fall into depravity. It's rather fun.