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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Discussion Thread


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#27826
Addai

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Yrkoon wrote...

OR,  Consider  Windhelm's Jarl.  If the player sides with the Imperial legion, then  the  "end effect" of  Ulfric's  entire pipe dream ends up going down in Skyrim history as one big  epic fail  -    One that starts with what we later learn is a pointless murder of an ally, and ends with the wasted lives of hundreds of his blind supporters,  He fails to even defeat a weakened imperial legion on his own home turf.

Torygg was not an ally.  Or if he was, he had no ability or will to show it, so it made no difference.  Ulfric did speak out at the Moot for independence, and nothing came of that.  He had already gone to prison once because the corrupt empire used him as a scapegoat while rewarding Igmund's family for the very same WGC "violation."

The fact that the legion is entrenched in Skyrim with local support is a point in Ulfric's favor, not theirs.  Skyrim is the birthplace of the empire and the Nords always its most stalwart supporters outside Cyrodiil, so if you're losing half of them, things are pretty bad.  A simple jarl taking on two empires with few resources is no small accomplishment.

#27827
happy_daiz

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TobiTobsen wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

*snip*.


When Ulfric made his move against Balgruuf I went all "What does Jarl Balgruuf look like?" on him.

You dont mess with Whiterun when my Dragonborn is around! B)

Indeed, and thanks for the laugh! I haven't seen that in a while. Image IPB

I wish Balgruuf could be High King, tbh. Out of all the jarls, he is the only one that seems to actually be concerned about the well-being and safety of his people.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:11 .


#27828
Addai

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dragonflight288 wrote...
On the other hand, Ulfric's cause is all about elevating Ulfric. At that same Peace Summit, nearly every issue the Empire brought up, even if it's completely legitimate, Ulfric was throwing a temper tantrum and willing to throw everything out the window because things didn't appear to be going his way.

Have you done that scene when the Stormcloaks are in control of Whiterun?  Then Tullius is the one making whiny demands.  Basically, whoever is in control of Whiterun starts out with the stronger bargaining position so it's the other side who wants something big up front to offset it.

As for Balgruuf, I like him less the more I play.  He is not a bad guy, and certainly not in Elisif's league, but he is only reactive and never proactive.  The Thalmor are snatching people out of his hold and massacreing them at Talos shrines, but this isn't his problem apparently.

#27829
Elhanan

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And seeing everything that does occur twixt Solitude and Dragonbridge (and surrounding areas) in the game, more does seem to be better than less. Much prefer Elisif than other choices, but it makes little difference to the Dragonborn.

If the Thieves Guild is left as is, they are epic Fail; under the control of the DB, they can influence politics from either side as proven by Maven. And Erikur is nothing without Guild influence; just a lecherous waste of time for either the Imperials or Stormcloaks.

#27830
Splinter Cell 108

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greengoron89 wrote...

I'd rather have someone on the throne who's not afraid to get things done, by any means necessary... like Erikur. Not my first choice for High King, but he would be a far better pick than either Elisif or Ulfric. And if Boethiah's Bidding hadn't been cut, Elisif would join her husband in Sovngarde and Erikur would be sitting on the throne right now.

It would really alleviate my concerns with siding with the Empire as well - I'd like to hope that maybe Bethesda will restore that quest, or at least a new version of it, but I won't hold my breath.


Don't know about that, but it seems that there's no good ruler anywhere and the ones that are good cannot be chosen for whatever reason. Tullius won't be around forever, even though I think he's probably better than anyone else. Bethesda did really make it hard when it came to the civil war, at least whichever side wins, the Thalmor lose IMO because to be honest I don't really think Ulfric is a Thalmor spy, regardless of what those papers say. Both victories are harmful to them, so he can't be a spy IMO. 

#27831
Master Shiori

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To be fair, they're doing it all over Skyrim, so it's not just Balgruuf who can't do a thing about it. Though, judging from his attitude towards the Thalmor, he'd love nothing more than to kill them all.

#27832
Guest_greengoron89_*

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TobiTobsen wrote...

I would be interested in your opinion why Erikur would be good in a leadership position.

The only vibe I always got from him was that of a sleazy, pompous fop who deals with the thief guild and believes himself gods gift to Solitude, so I would appreciate to get another perspective on his character. ^_^


He is sleazy and pompous, and does deal with the Thieves Guild... which I happen to be a member of and will soon run myself. It'd be nice to have the Jarl of Solitude/High King as an ally and business partner. He also knows politics far better than either Elisif or Ulfric. He might be a slime, but I'd rather have him on the throne than Elisif the Fool and the far-too-nationalistic-for-his-own-good Ulfric.

#27833
happy_daiz

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I blame Irileth for any of Balgruuf's shortcomings. Image IPB I kid, I kid. Although honestly, if anyone should be blamed for his lack of action/reaction, it should probably be Proventus Avenicci, Farengar, or Hrongar.

Every time I think of Irileth, though, I remember one of my XBL friends I was chatting with while he was playing Skyrim for the first time. He had just gotten to Dragonsreach, and said, "whoa, I just got stopped by a dude. A really mean one". He was talking about Irileth.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:16 .


#27834
Addai

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Master Shiori wrote...

To be fair, they're doing it all over Skyrim, so it's not just Balgruuf who can't do a thing about it. Though, judging from his attitude towards the Thalmor, he'd love nothing more than to kill them all.

I see the most Thalmor patrols in Whiterun hold, and that's the only place you find a massacre, and the only place where you get a quest involving kidnapping.  Thorald says the Thalmor wanted to use him to draw out the rest of the Grey-Manes.  Would Balgruuf have done anything to stop it?  He can't, because he took the empire's gold.

@ happy_daiz:  LOL  I like Irileth.  My Dunmer would have bedded that fiery wench if she'd given him the time of day.  :devil:  Though as I've said upthread, I suspect she's the reason Mephala is hanging around in the basement.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:15 .


#27835
happy_daiz

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^ Oh, I like Irileth, too. Skyrim needs more sassy firebrands like her and the face-changer in Riften (Galathil). Image IPB

#27836
Master Shiori

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Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

To be fair, they're doing it all over Skyrim, so it's not just Balgruuf who can't do a thing about it. Though, judging from his attitude towards the Thalmor, he'd love nothing more than to kill them all.

I see the most Thalmor patrols in Whiterun hold, and that's the only place you find a massacre, and the only place where you get a quest involving kidnapping.  Thorald says the Thalmor wanted to use him to draw out the rest of the Grey-Manes.  Would Balgruuf have done anything to stop it?  He can't, because he took the empire's gold.


You see them there the most because of the Holds central location. Every Thalmor patrol has to pass through Whiterun at some point. And there are massacres all over Skyrim, though the one in Whiterun is the only case where we clearly know who perpetrators were.

Balgruuf can't do a thing because of the WGC, not the gold. The moment he openly attacks the Thalmor, the Empire would be forced to deal with him, just like they had to arrest Ulfric and his militia after Markath.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 19 novembre 2012 - 04:23 .


#27837
Addai

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Master Shiori wrote...
You see them there the most because of the Holds central location. Every Thalmor patrol has to pass through Whiterun at some point. And there are massacres all over Skyrim, though the one in Whiterun is the only case where we clearly know who perpetrators were.

Balgruuf can't do a thing because of the WGC, not the gold. The moment he openly attacks the Thalmor, the Empire would be forced to deal with him, just like they had to arrest Ulfric and his militia after Markath.

These things are still pretty conspicuous.  But yeah, mainly my problem with Balgruuf is the same problem I have with the empire in general- if you're letting your enemy kidnap and torture people, what good are you?

#27838
Carcharoth42

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I saved a Khajiit caravan from some hostile Thalmor. A passing legionnaire and his nobleman escort tried to arrest me for murder. I disagreed and the horse reported me for more murder. Whiterun guards tried to arrest me and my position as Thane couldn't be used. The death toll climbed. I think I'll side with the Stormcloaks again... This was likely one of the last heroic acts my character does before his final decent into evil.

#27839
Giggles_Manically

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Its kind of a shame you cant start your own group.
Since Yes Man was one of the better endings....especially when you had the Kill Sat!

Oh lord the Legion never even saw that one coming!

#27840
Addai

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If I could have made my own Nord king, I'd have made Buliwyf anyway. So Ulfric is good enough for me. Not that I don't think he needs the help of a good dragonborn queen.  :devil:

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2012 - 06:42 .


#27841
TobiTobsen

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Our own faction? Me and J'Zargo ruling the land of Skyrim? I don't think the Nords would be very pleased. Especially not when we transform the snowy hills of Skyrim into warm sand! No Khajiit shall ever suffer chillblains on their paws again!

#27842
happy_daiz

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^ Ooh, I think M'aiq would approve. Maybe you could help Ri'saad and the Khajiit caravans move into the cities while you're at it? I always wished I could do something to help those kitties out.

Well, aside from killing Ma'randru-jo...

Actually, that always makes me sad.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:10 .


#27843
rwilli80

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I say the Dragonborn should just take the throne after the complication of the civil war quest.

#27844
Addai

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There is no way that can happen because there's no way Skyrim would accept a non-Nord as ruler, except obviously in the case of Tullius who is the de facto ruler if the imperials remain in power. A sad state of affairs if you ask me. Morrowind under the empire and Skyrim under Cyrodiil's boot who's already bent over for the Thalmor, a crying shame.

Anyway the hero is always a prisoner turned savior turned mythical figure who exits stage left.  I guess Dragon Age is copying that pattern.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:15 .


#27845
Mr.House

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dragonflight288 wrote...


On the other hand, Ulfric's cause is all about elevating Ulfric. At that same Peace Summit, nearly every issue the Empire brought up, even if it's completely legitimate, Ulfric was throwing a temper tantrum and willing to throw everything out the window because things didn't appear to be going his way.

 

That only happens if he does not have Whiterun, if Ulfric does have Whiterun you know who throws tantrums, whines and wants so many deals?
http://cloud.steampo...344276A2A24BFE/

#27846
Giggles_Manically

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I doubt the Nords would care if you kill Alduin.

But Bethesda just wants an easy out to write away the PC for the next game.

#27847
Mr.House

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

I doubt the Nords would care if you kill Alduin.

But Bethesda just wants an easy out to write away the PC for the next game.

Well we did talk to the Oblivion hero in Skyrim ;):P

#27848
Addai

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

I doubt the Nords would care if you kill Alduin.

But Bethesda just wants an easy out to write away the PC for the next game.

Oh, I think they would care.  An Argonian, Khajiit or elf as high king of Skyrim?  Not bloody likely, no matter who you are.  Nobody seems to even notice when you kill Alduin.

#27849
The Hierophant

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Is there any hints from Bethesda, lore or easter eggs dealing with Jyggalag after Shivering Isles?

#27850
Addai

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Jyggalag was destroyed, though in Nirn that doesn't mean much. But I assume you know about Sheogorath's hints in TESV that he is actually the Hero of Cyrodiil?