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[wsandista]

Yrkoon wrote...

Elhanan wrote...
 If there were nets and tridents in the game, Argonians would be a force of reckoning.

There are pitchforks in the game.    Can't equip them though.  They taunt you when you find them, saying  "hahaha, I bet you wish you could impale a bandit with me!"

That needs to be rectified.

[termokanden]

Yrkoon wrote...

Except that you can't improve them at the forge, or enchant them at a table, or apply poisons to them.   

Well, you can't in vanilla skyrim, but I'm sure there's a "manicure" mod out there that lets you do all of the above  lol

Yes that's a massive shame. You can use a heavy armor talent to improve your unarmed damage, but of course that only scales to the BASE armor value. If it had just taken the actual armor value, unarmed would be viable but not overpowered.

I'm sure you are right and there's more than one mod for that.

Anyway, yet another example of game design that doesn't scale to the detriment of the game. Destruction magic is another good example. Luckily, most things in Skyrim DO scale.

Modifié par termokanden, 25 novembre 2012 - 09:05 .

[Dutchess]

Tiber Septim was supposedly a Nord? Huh. And here I thought... the Imperium... Imperials... Emperor of the Imperium... No? Alright. xD I guess I'm behind on the lore, with Skyrim being my first TES game.

And with a few dual wielding power attacks, things are dead before you need to block. Although I suppose that might not hold on master difficulty.

[goofyomnivore]

Yeah I don't understand the Nords intense worship of Talos. I get why Imperials wouldn't get as upset with it being outlawed they are more attached to Alessia than Talos. But Talos really didn't seem to give a damn about the Nords, and to me it appears he tried to be as Imperial as he could be.

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

Where did you get that, Giggles?

I haven't come across any lore, either ingame or on the wiki, that states Nirn would go "poof" without Talos.

It's a theory put forth both by Michael Kirkbride's background writing on the Thalmor's intentions:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

And by the teaser for TESV posted by developers in the lore forum, On Boethiah's Summoning Day:

You ask what of the Empire's collapse, of new lords? I will tell you, that is what I am speaking of already. Is not the Talos Cult more persecuted than ever? The cycle need not continue - the end comes by many roads, it may be destruction or fulfillment. Do not listen to the lies. The usurpers of the East, or the West. The triadic gods wars against Talos, and would have him removed, for he sets the stars in stone which could spell their doom. They come before they are anticipated, for unless they do they may never come at all; Alduin is their antecessor,
but only if Hjalti fails. Talos holds back the divines of the next world. This is why he became a divine of this one- divine yet unanticipated, thus his uniqueness. He upholds the dividing lines of the cosmos. Defends romance lest we lose it the pit of singularity.

The Princes of this world will follow the lead of the Princes of the last - they will step up and become kings, with Peryite as their chief. This much should be obvious, every Prince Anticipates their future immanence. I can feel the pains of childbirth in the heavens and I rail against it.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 novembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Addai]

strive wrote...

Yeah I don't understand the Nords intense worship of Talos. I get why Imperials wouldn't get as upset with it being outlawed they are more attached to Alessia than Talos. But Talos really didn't seem to give a damn about the Nords, and to me it appears he tried to be as Imperial as he could be.

His name was Hjalti Early-Beard, that suggests at least that he had a Nord parent, though The Arcturian Heresy says he was from Alcaire and The Real Barenziah that his stature was fairly small, so that suggests he also had Breton heritage.  I think he probably had a Breton mother and Nord father.  Nords went over to his army in the Battle of Sancre Tor, and they subdued the Reach together, with Tiber getting a reputation for his thu'um, calling down a storm to defeat Old Hrol'dan.  Nords respect strength and courage.

This beside the fact that Talos is not just Tiber, but Tiber + Wulfharth + Zurin Arctus.  I would guess not many Nords believe that, though.  All in all he could appeal to Bretons, Nords and Cyrodiils alike, which is part of his sucess.

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

It's a theory put forth both by Michael Kirkbride's background writing on the Thalmor's intentions:

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.

And by the teaser for TESV posted by developers in the lore forum, On Boethiah's Summoning Day:

You ask what of the Empire's collapse, of new lords? I will tell you, that is what I am speaking of already. Is not the Talos Cult more persecuted than ever? The cycle need not continue - the end comes by many roads, it may be destruction or fulfillment. Do not listen to the lies. The usurpers of the East, or the West. The triadic gods wars against Talos, and would have him removed, for he sets the stars in stone which could spell their doom. They come before they are anticipated, for unless they do they may never come at all; Alduin is their antecessor,
but only if Hjalti fails. Talos holds back the divines of the next world. This is why he became a divine of this one- divine yet unanticipated, thus his uniqueness. He upholds the dividing lines of the cosmos. Defends romance lest we lose it the pit of singularity.

The Princes of this world will follow the lead of the Princes of the last - they will step up and become kings, with Peryite as their chief. This much should be obvious, every Prince Anticipates their future immanence. I can feel the pains of childbirth in the heavens and I rail against it.

Hmm, so from what you posted I take it losing his worshipers would case a god to cease to be?

Guess the message of the day, when it comes to TES, is: Be as big a bastard as you like and you may become a god after death.

[Addai]

On Nirn, belief shapes reality. Gods are not static, and they are partly created by the belief of worshippers. So if belief in Talos' divinity is weakened, he himself will be weakened and possibly destroyed. Not that being dead keeps the gods from trolling people.

[Master Shiori]

Exactly, which is why I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Though I understand even less how Tiber Septim became a god in the first place..

Modifié par Master Shiori, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:01 .

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

IMO, Tiber Septim was the greatest bastard to ever walk the face of Tamriel. He might have been a Nord (or so the Nords believe), but he hardly cared about Skyrim. It never ceases to amaze me that the Nords would hold him in such high esteeem after he made them part of a Cyrodiilic Empire and banned th use of Thu'um as a weapon. It would be much better to forget Talos and go back to worshipping their original pantheon. Heck, banning the worship of Talos is the only issue I completely agree upon with the Thalmor.

Just saw this- Tiber didn't ban the thu'um, in fact he tried to set up a college in Markarth to teach it, but it only attracted noble brats trying to curry favor and the project seems to have been abandoned.  The Nords gave up the thu'um as weapon after they lost the Battle of Red Mountain and Jurgen Windcaller decided it must have been because the gods were angry about their use of it in war.

He also didn't invent the Cyrodiilic pantheon- that goes back to Alessia and the first Cyrodiilic empire.  She created a new pantheon to synthesize the gods of her Nord allies with the elven pantheon, which they didn't want to adopt as-is.  The Nords gave up their pantheon more or less willingly since they revered Alessia.  I'd like to see it restored though, too.  I hope that's one consequence of events post-Skyrim.  The imperial divines are a bunch of milk drinkers.  I imagine Talos worship would still stay, though.

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

Exactly, which is why I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Though I understand even less how Tiber Septim became a god in the first place..

Well it would be one thing if the Nords decided on their own Tiber was not a god.  Then the world would probably end, but even worse for a Nord is having elves telling them what to do. 

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

Just saw this- Tiber didn't ban the thu'um, in fact he tried to set up a college in Markarth to teach it, but it only attracted noble brats trying to curry favor and the project seems to have been abandoned.  The Nords gave up the thu'um as weapon after they lost the Battle of Red Mountain and Jurgen Windcaller decided it must have been because the gods were angry about their use of it in war.

I could have sworn that I read he banned it, but I'll take your word since I don't feel like digging through the game.

Addai67 wrote...

He also didn't invent the Cyrodiilic pantheon- that goes back to Alessia and the first Cyrodiilic empire.  

Err, I never claimed that he did. I just stated that I cannot see the reason why the Nords would suddenly replace their traditional pantheon with Cyrodiilic one. Especially, as you said yourself, it contains elven deities in it.

Addai67 wrote...

The imperial divines are a bunch of milk drinkers.  I imagine Talos worship would still stay, though.

Oh, Talos would definitely stay. He's become a part of Nord beliefs as much as Shor or Kyne. I may not like Talos for what he was as a mortal, but that dislike is born from my metagaming knowledge and cannot be justified ingame for any Nord character that I make, since they would share the beliefs of Skyrim and it's people.

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Exactly, which is why I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Though I understand even less how Tiber Septim became a god in the first place..

Well it would be one thing if the Nords decided on their own Tiber was not a god.  Then the world would probably end, but even worse for a Nord is having elves telling them what to do. 

 
oh yes. Especially ones like this fine gentleman here 

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Just saw this- Tiber didn't ban the thu'um, in fact he tried to set up a college in Markarth to teach it, but it only attracted noble brats trying to curry favor and the project seems to have been abandoned.  The Nords gave up the thu'um as weapon after they lost the Battle of Red Mountain and Jurgen Windcaller decided it must have been because the gods were angry about their use of it in war.

I could have sworn that I read he banned it, but I'll take your word since I don't feel like digging through the game.

Arngeir tells the story of Jurgen Windcaller.  PGE First Edition mentions Tiber's college of thu'um.

Err, I never claimed that he did. I just stated that I cannot see the reason why the Nords would suddenly replace their traditional pantheon with Cyrodiilic one. Especially, as you said yourself, it contains elven deities in it.

It was Alessia.  But some must have held on to the Nord deities for quite a while, since in Oblivion there's a priestess in Bruma who talks about converting heathen Nords.  Unfortunately she must have succeeded grandly before TES V.  There's only Froki left.    There's also no Feast of the Dead in Windhelm like there's supposed to be.  The Nords have gotten boring, one reason I want to see the empire kicked out of Skyrim.

[Master Shiori]

I'd love to see the original First Empire of the Nords come back. Heck, Nords and Redguards are the only 2 human races that I respect.

[Mr.House]

We know for sure Tiber Septim ala Talos is a god.

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Except that you can't improve them at the forge, or enchant them at a table, or coat them with poison..   

Well, you can't in vanilla skyrim, but I'm sure there's a "manicure" mod out there that lets you do all of the above 

True, but they are great early on, and with Unarmed items and bonsuses, can be quite formidable, I understand.

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

I'd love to see the original First Empire of the Nords come back. Heck, Nords and Redguards are the only 2 human races that I respect.

I like the Dunmer as well.  I hope they don't go back under the imperial yoke, either.  Not like the empire has done anything for them lately.

The cool thing about the way divinity works on Nirn is that it's a parallel to how Beth treats the lore.  They consider that multiple things may be true, and they embrace fanon, so if the fanbase likes something enough and believes in it, more often than not it becomes true.  Whatever "true" means. 

[TobiTobsen]

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I'd love to see the original First Empire of the Nords come back. Heck, Nords and Redguards are the only 2 human races that I respect.

I like the Dunmer as well.  I hope they don't go back under the imperial yoke, either.  Not like the empire has done anything for them lately.

Sadly there is not much to do there, if they don't want to start another war against the Argonians camping in southern Morrowind.

Any sources that say that the Legions pulled out of Morrowind after the Red Year? I mean they had quite a lot of forts and garrisons in Morrowind. Would be interesting to know if the still Dunmer controlled part of Morrowind is still an imperial province.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 25 novembre 2012 - 10:58 .

[xiiFezz]

I'm kind of bummed out because ESO says that the wood elves and thalmor are allies and I for one was looking very forward to playing as a wood elf hopefully we don't have to stay with our allies

[HoonDing]

Tiber Septim the mortal was not Talos. Hjalti Early-Beard != Ysmir Wulfharth. Tiber Septim became Talos as people did no longer distinguish between the two and Septim then became part of an oversoul with Ysmir and Arctus.

Tiber Septim was a cunning little weasel who ascended to godhood by means of trickery. He wasn't even a true Nord since he was from High Rock (plus he impregnated a certain young red-haired Dunmer woman).

In the game the ghost in Old Hroldan confirms the content of the Arcturian Heresy.

Modifié par HoonDing, 26 novembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[termokanden]

The Thalmor steamroll everyone and everything, and that's exactly what happened to the Bosmer. Not all of them are terribly pleased with this as you can see with the wood elf NPC Malborn who helps you against the Thalmor during the main quest.

I hope neither Aldmer nor Bosmer have to stick with the Dominion. They are bit too much Star Wars Empire for my tastes.

Modifié par termokanden, 26 novembre 2012 - 12:14 .

[Elhanan]

xiiFezz wrote...

I'm kind of bummed out because ESO says that the wood elves and thalmor are allies and I for one was looking very forward to playing as a wood elf hopefully we don't have to stay with our allies

Not all High Elves are (or become) Thalmor, so you can play as a Wood Elf in good stead. But it can still add as incentive for those that choose other alliances, that is for certain.

[Master Shiori]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

I'd love to see the original First Empire of the Nords come back. Heck, Nords and Redguards are the only 2 human races that I respect.

I like the Dunmer as well.  I hope they don't go back under the imperial yoke, either.  Not like the empire has done anything for them lately.

Sadly there is not much to do there, if they don't want to start another war against the Argonians camping in southern Morrowind.

Any sources that say that the Legions pulled out of Morrowind after the Red Year? I mean they had quite a lot of forts and garrisons in Morrowind. Would be interesting to know if the still Dunmer controlled part of Morrowind is still an imperial province.

Aside from the eruption of the Red Mountain and the Argonian invasion of southern Morrowind, there's prescious little info on the Dunmer homeland.

I suppose they're still part of the Empire, but I'm not sure about that.

Still, if Skyrim breaks away, I imagine Morrowind may as well follow. Not to mention High Rock which would be effectively cut off from Cyrodill.

[Addai]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Sadly there is not much to do there, if they don't want to start another war against the Argonians camping in southern Morrowind.

Any sources that say that the Legions pulled out of Morrowind after the Red Year? I mean they had quite a lot of forts and garrisons in Morrowind. Would be interesting to know if the still Dunmer controlled part of Morrowind is still an imperial province.

The game novels at least make it sound like the empire is completely out of Morrowind.  The southern half was still being occupied by the Argonians (we don't know if it still is at game time) and the northern part was a wasteland.  The Great War still talks as if MW is part of the empire, but it sounds like the empire was just overwhelmed and not able to respond.