37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
True, they are corrupt. But as you said in military strength that is not the case. If they empire is torn apart and dissolved, political weakness or not that military strength disappears once the empire is gone. The solution in my opinion isn't to have everything torn apart, at least not now not with the Thalmor wanting just that, the lack of unity amongst humans will only serve to make their cause stronger. The Empire should fix itself for now or at least purge that damn useless council. Put people like Tullius and Baalgruf in charge instead of self interested fools like Siddgeir and Maven.The alternative at least when it comes to Skyrim doesn't sound better to me.

Someone like Balgruuf is content to sit on his hands and let the Thalmor do whatever they please.  What is going to cause Cyrodiil to purge the Council when the Oblivion Crisis and Umbriel crisis only appeared to have made things worse?  The legion's strength won't matter if the political stuff won't change.  Tullius and Rikke are examples of this.  They want to fight the Thalmor, but they can't because their hands are tied.

Ulfric doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself and his followers are all blind fools that take everything to extremes. "fight or die well", " you are with us or you're against us". That sounds to me like they typical blind fool. That duel wasn't really fair at all, using dragon shouts pretty much invalidates it, its like using a machinegun in a pistol duel. Enough about that though.

He's not a fool.  He's seen the writing on the wall, that those who rely on the legion and Cyrodiil's leadership are just going to be thrown under the bus when push comes to shove.  If he wins, he says his first priority is to ramp up Skyrim's military readiness.  Brunwulf wants to start a Grey Quarter beautification project because he's trusting in the legion to protect Skyrim.  How well did that work out for the Dunmer during the Oblivion Crisis (as we learn in Dragonborn), or the redguard and Nords of the Reach during the Great War?  Cyrodiil only does for itself at this point, even though that was really always the case in the past, too.

In my opinion the Empire is not done yet, it needs reformation or radical change just not in the way in which everything falls apart. That unity and military strength that the Empire possesses is needed to stop the Thalmor. No one else can and no one else will. That's just my opinion though. 

Whereas I think Bethesda has been telegraphing since Morrowind and especially in the Oblivion MQ that the empire is on its way out.  I really hope they don't just do a reboot of the same damn thing again.  Much as I hate the idea of the new MMO, something like the Ebonheart Pact between Dunmer and Nords is what I'd like to see.  At least something different.  The Thalmor won't win, they're going to blow themselves up in a typical elven godhood gambit.

[Addai]

Youth4Ever wrote...
Isn't the rule of the Empire hereditary? Ulfric doesn't have any claim to rule Skyrim. King killer should have left well enough alone.

The Medes took over by force of arms and because a corrupt minister in the service of the daedric prince Clavicus Vile paved the way for them with the Elder Council.  Ulfric has as much claim on the kingship of Skyrim as Titus Mede did to the Ruby Throne.

Elhanan wrote...

The comments of Jaree-Ra may not be racial at all; the Argonian and his sister are criminal scum., and the
man making the statement is in law enforcement.

Do you see any other Argonians in the city, other than the Thieves Guild fence who isn't a permanent resident?

But Gunmar wants to stick a sword in a fellow Nord for not bowing to the whim of Ulfric, justifying such opposition as bad as those of the Dominion. Wonder what he would think if he knew that Ulfric himself is a Thalmor tool.

Ha ha, Mede is the biggest Thalmor tool.  You don't see Thalmor hosting parties in Eastmarch.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 février 2013 - 05:03 .

[Jaison1986]

I never understood this notion that Ulfric is an Thalmor tool. He is just an "indirect asset" since his actions are indirectly helping the Thalmor. If anyone reads that dossier, it will say that an stormcloak victory must not happen at any cost, since it would be just as bad as an imperial victory. The way I see it, the empire needs to swallow their pride and look at reality, they are too weak and corrupt to rule other provinces properly, it's not the nords fault for wanting their freedom. The empire gave full control of hammerfell to the dominion, what kind of leader does that? And while the empire is making speechs about union and leadership, the aldmeri agents go into Skyrim arresting people and doing unspeakable things to them just for practicing an harmless worship.

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

Do you see any other Argonians in the city, other than the Thieves Guild fence who isn't a permanent resident?

No need to look. A criminal element is undesirable, no matter if it is human or not.

]Ha ha, Mede is the biggest Thalmor tool.  You don't see Thalmor hosting parties in Eastmarch.

Solitude is the capitol; makes sense to set both bases and parties there.

[Addai]

People love conspiracy theories and the dossier was meant to stir the pot. The thing is, we don't see Titus Mede's Thalmor dossier, only one about Ulfric. It's what historians call the positivist fallacy. If a document exists, whatever it describes is given greater importance than maybe is due, simply because something is written about it. Sort of like how lawyers play juries by bringing up nonsense stuff or false allegations. "If they're talking about this, it must be important..." Even if it's just smoke.

I was reading something interesting this week that made me think of the Thalmor supposedly using Ulfric. The Strategikon is a 6th century Byzantine manual for military strategy. In it the author describes ways to use deserters and released prisoners to spread misinformation. One of their tactics if someone deserted to the other side, was to send that person a letter, in such a way that the enemy would intercept it and think the deserter was actually a spy. I wonder if Elenwen had the dossier written up so that they could release it to make problems for Ulfric if he succeeded at splitting from the empire.

Elhanan wrote...

No need to look. A criminal element is undesirable, no matter if it is human or not.

So the executioner calling him a "lizard" isn't racist.  Ok.  Where is the flourishing community of Argonians, Khajiit, orcs and Dunmer, if Solitude and the imperial Nords are so welcoming of other races?  Shouldn't they be flocking there rather than in Stormcloak-controlled areas as we actually see them?  The orc at the Solitude sawmill says he hates when he has to go into town because he's treated so badly.  Again, there are reasons to support the imperial Nords, but the idea that they're different than any other kind of Nords is not a sound one.

Listen to the tree.  He is wise.  

Modifié par Addai67, 13 février 2013 - 07:29 .

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

People love conspiracy theories and the dossier was meant to stir the pot. The thing is, we don't see Titus Mede's Thalmor dossier, only one about Ulfric. It's what historians call the positivist fallacy. If a document exists, whatever it describes is given greater importance than maybe is due, simply because something is written about it. Sort of like how lawyers play juries by bringing up nonsense stuff or false allegations. "If they're talking about this, it must be important..." Even if it's just smoke.

I was reading something interesting this week that made me think of the Thalmor supposedly using Ulfric. The Strategikon is a 6th century Byzantine manual for military strategy. In it the author describes ways to use deserters and released prisoners to spread misinformation. One of their tactics if someone deserted to the other side, was to send that person a letter, in such a way that the enemy would intercept it and think the deserter was actually a spy. I wonder if Elenwen had the dossier written up so that they could release it to make problems for Ulfric if he succeeded at splitting from the empire.

So the executioner calling him a "lizard" isn't racist.  Ok.  Where is the flourishing community of Argonians, Khajiit, orcs and Dunmer, if Solitude and the imperial Nords are so welcoming of other races?  Shouldn't they be flocking there rather than in Stormcloak-controlled areas as we actually see them?  The orc at the Solitude sawmill says he hates when he has to go into town because he's treated so badly.  Again, there are reasons to support the imperial Nords, but the idea that they're different than any other kind of Nords is not a sound one....

Possibly using the term lizard is racist; maybe not. But the Argonian is certainly a thug, and deserving of the chopping block as the man suggests. And as Skyrim is a land of Nords,it is doubtful that such communities exist. Those that are here simply had few other options.

[Splinter Cell 108]

@Addai

You make a lot of good points, the empire is a crumbling mess, a shadow of its former self. I'm starting to reconsider doing a stormcloak playthrough but I still don't think Ulfric is the best solution. If it were anybody else who was getting the throne I'd consider it. One thing I don't like from either side is that the victor in the civil war doesn't let the opposing leader surrender. I really did not want to kill General Tullius or Ulfric when I finished the civil war. They should both be allowed to surrender.

It would be fun if the Empire fell apart and a bunch of alliances formed themselves as a response to the threat the Thalmor pose, just nothing like the Ebonheart pact, I can't see that alliance flourishing when the Argonians and the Nord both hate the Dunmer. I can see the Argonians and the Nords allying but not the Dunmer.

[Addai]

There's some dialogue in the CK about a surrender, but I guess they decided not to use it. Ulfric says something like "give me three hours, my family and I will be gone."

The Dunmer and Nords are getting along better than they ever have, so I don't see it was out of the realm of possibility that they would ally against the Dominion. As Mer and Men go, they are the most alike in that they're warlike and independent, and the Dunmer being more Lorkhan-aligned than other elves. Dunmer and Argonians, that really doesn't make a lot of sense. I imagine the Hist will stay out of any conflict unless they're directly threatened.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Addai67 wrote...

There's some dialogue in the CK about a surrender, but I guess they decided not to use it. Ulfric says something like "give me three hours, my family and I will be gone."

The Dunmer and Nords are getting along better than they ever have, so I don't see it was out of the realm of possibility that they would ally against the Dominion. As Mer and Men go, they are the most alike in that they're warlike and independent, and the Dunmer being more Lorkhan-aligned than other elves. Dunmer and Argonians, that really doesn't make a lot of sense. I imagine the Hist will stay out of any conflict unless they're directly threatened.

Yeah but the Dunmer have historically had problems with the Nords with the battle of Red Mountain and all that but even so I don't think they like the Thalmor much. If I were the Argonians I wouldn't side or support the Thalmor at all, they do after all make slaves out of the Khajiit, I doubt they're going to get preferential treatment. 

They should've kept that surrender dialogue, I really don't like to kill Ulfric, he isn't a scumbag like some others. 

On a side note, who is the the current leader of the Aldmeri Dominion? It has never been said, who leads them. 

[Giggles_Manically]

You know...I missed the early game
Combat is much more thrilling when it is so very threatening.

There has been a few times where I ran about going "OH CRAP OH CRAP OH CRAP!"
So much fun

[Addai]

Nope we don't know who's running the show. I thought for a while that the soldiers you overhear talking about Herself meant the leader in Alinor, but lore forumites convinced me they meant Elenwen. They left a lot of things vague that I wish were filled in, also what's going on High Rock.

[LPPrince]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You know...I missed the early game
Combat is much more thrilling when it is so very threatening.

There has been a few times where I ran about going "OH CRAP OH CRAP OH CRAP!"
So much fun

I remember back in 2011 when sabre cats were the bane of my travels.

In 2013 I'm like, "Pfft, please."

[Elhanan]

It appears that Khajiit caravans and their fellows are restricted from all the major cities, but not all Khajiit. Both J'Zargo and Shavari can travel to any city, and the latter has ties to the Thalmor, as does J'datharr. And as much as I loathe the Thalmor, this seemingly places the Khajiit population of the Imperials two above that of the Stormcloaks.

P.S. The Daedric Lord of knowlege certainly got uglified in the latest DLC; somewhat surprised me in the appearance made with Septimus.

Modifié par Elhanan, 13 février 2013 - 10:31 .

[Yrkoon]

He's just a blob.... literally a door barrier when you meet him in Septimus' hut.  It almost doesn't count as  getting to "see" him.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 février 2013 - 10:56 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

So why does Hermaeus Mora say that my dragonborn "serves" him. Is that his way of trying to screw with people? My dragonborns are not ending up in Apocrypha, that place is dreadful, its even more depressing than the Soul Cairn.

[Elhanan]

My guess is that the Book is cursed, and extremely difficult to remain closed. I have a hard save for that possibility in my current playthrough, but that is a failing of all of my characters; more knowledge.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

It appears that Khajiit caravans and their fellows are restricted from all the major cities, but not all Khajiit. Both J'Zargo and Shavari can travel to any city, and the latter has ties to the Thalmor, as does J'datharr. And as much as I loathe the Thalmor, this seemingly places the Khajiit population of the Imperials two above that of the Stormcloaks.

You're using Thalmor agents as support for the imperials, when you admit that even the imperial holds don't allow Khajiit caravans in?  Um, yeah....  If you ask Ma'dran about the war, he says that soldiers are his best customers.  His two stops are Solitude and Windhelm.  So apparently Stormcloaks are buying and selling from him just as much as imperials.

This line of argument only works for those who ignore a lot of information about Tamriel.  I'm pretty much done with it.

Anyway...  all the daedra seem to assume you serve them.  For my character he could rightly say that since she did read the Oghma Infinium.  I'll be interested to see how it's different for my Dunmer, who hasn't finished the Skyrim MQ.

He and Jenassa just look good there, in the lighting and stuff.  I look forward to mods that turn the Dunmer clothing into mage robes.

Adding some pics for happy_daiz.  :happy:

I was really impressed by Moesring Pass.



My Dunmer and Jenassa in Raven Rock



Being macked on by the locals



I have no idea what happened, but somehow a Lurker sent him into orbit.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 février 2013 - 01:31 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I think I'm just going to drop that damn book in the middle of the frozen water of Winterhold with my Argonian, that way no one ever finds it and starts chasing that lunatic. I still can't believe that he killed the Skaal shaman, that wasn't part of the deal. but I guess he's a daedra. I wonder if the Dunmer on Solstheim will look down to some Argonian traveler coming to their little island.

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

You're using Thalmor agents as support for the imperials, when you admit that even the imperial holds don't allow Khajiit caravans in?  Um, yeah....  If you ask Ma'dran about the war, he says that soldiers are his best customers.  His two stops are Solitude and Windhelm.  So apparently Stormcloaks are buying and selling from him just as much as imperials.

This line of argument only works for those who ignore a lot of information about Tamriel.  I'm pretty much done with it....

The Khajiit are banned because they are indeed dealing in Skooma and Moon Sugar; not just rumors and speculation. And my point is that the Empire will at least include Khajiit in their ops; not the Stormcloaks. In their eyes, non-humanoids are only good for servants and slaves as a rule.

Do not have to know TES lore to make a judgement based on actions.

Modifié par Elhanan, 14 février 2013 - 02:24 .

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

The Khajiit are banned because they are indeed dealing in Skooma and Moon Sugar; not just rumors and speculation. And my point is that the Empire will at least include Khajiit in their ops; not the Stormcloaks. In their eyes, non-humanoids are only good for servants and slaves as a rule.

Do not have to know TES lore to make a judgement based on actions.

Now you're just talking out your hindquarters.  The Dunmer (and earlier the Dwemer and Ayleids) are the only ones who enslaved people.  Both Altmer and Dunmer in Windhelm own property, run shops, have Nord customers and Nord employees.  I don't think it helps the imperial case to consider Thalmor agents as representatives of how supposedly progressive imperials are.  Besides the fact that Elsweyr seceded from the empire after the Void Nights.

When the Khajiit and Bosmer were warring, Cyrodiil blocked its border so that Bosmer refugees couldn't flee north (see A Dance in Fire).  Compare that to what the Nords did for the Dunmer after Red Year, and tell me who's more tolerant.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 février 2013 - 02:31 .

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

Now you're just talking out your hindquarters.  The Dunmer (and earlier the Dwemer and Ayleids) are the only ones who enslaved people.  Both Altmer and Dunmer in Windhelm own property, run shops, have Nord customers and Nord employees.  I don't think it helps the imperial case to consider Thalmor agents as representatives of how supposedly progressive imperials are.  Besides the fact that Elsweyr seceded from the empire after the Void Nights.

When the Khajiit and Bosmer were warring, Cyrodiil blocked its border so that Bosmer refugees couldn't flee north (see A Dance in Fire).  Compare that to what the Nords did for the Dunmer after Red Year, and tell me who's more tolerant.

Have you not gazed at Khajiit inventories? Skooma and Moon Sugar as charged. Have you not been to the Windhelm docks to aid them get a higher wage? Living in one large room much like the miners in Markarth.

Sadly, these are the current state of things in Skyrim; not in games past.

[LPPrince]

I'd like to think that when my daughter Runa is in her room with her pet fox, this is how cute the scene is.

[Giggles_Manically]

There has always been racism in TES.

The Dunmer are and were incredibly racist, in TES.
In Arena everyone was racist against Orcs claiming they were mindless beasts.
In Oblivion there were lots of racists across the board.

Skyrim is more overt about the racism, but is was always there in TES.

[Addai]

Elhanan wrote...

Have you not gazed at Khajiit inventories? Skooma and Moon Sugar as charged. Have you not been to the Windhelm docks to aid them get a higher wage? Living in one large room much like the miners in Markarth.

Sadly, these are the current state of things in Skyrim; not in games past.

You're not making any sense.  Markarth is an imperial hold.  And are you arguing that the Khajiit are or aren't oppressed?  I can't tell.

Never mind.  If you won't see plain reason, there's no sense in talking about it.