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[Endurium]

Can you complete the quest by slipping a Frenzy poison into his pockets?

Modifié par Endurium, 28 mars 2013 - 10:53 .

[Yrkoon]

Endurium wrote...

Can you complete the quest by slipping a Frenzy poison into his pockets?

Yes.

[Giggles_Manically]

I am only going to reduce Destruction to Zero....the way people react when you say that is weird.

Mostly:


If you can swing a sword at no stamina cost, why is it such an issue to cast a destruction spell for no cost?
Ugh, I mean seriously it is not like I took all the challenge out of the game or something.

[Joy Divison]

Yrkoon wrote...

Endurium wrote...

Can you complete the quest by slipping a Frenzy poison into his pockets?

Yes.

Vampires are immune to poison, right?

Anyone, I'd like these quests a lot more if I got credit for following the correct procedure.  I go through a lot of trouble with respect to time (waiting for the right opportunity), resources (invis + sneak potion), sneaking to the optimal spot where no one can see you, and even sneak/invis after nobody sees me do a one shot kill and still bounty anyway...presumably from a fly on the wall.

[Druss99]

Maybe it's bugged, you sure there's no one around at all? I lured the guy to a part of Markarth where no one was looking and sneak attacked him. One hit kill and no bounty.

[Joy Divison]

They are around in the general area, but they don't have LOS (there is a wall in the way) and according to the game I'm hidden with the closed eye (aside from being invisible and silenced). If I had to guess, I'm seen right after I commit the dead...when I kill the guy, the eye opens. Even when I pop and invis potion *right* at the moment after I attack and a wall being in the way. I dunno. I just used the console command. No bounty there.

[Giggles_Manically]

After playing Dragonborn I wonder if Bethesda is setting up Mora to be the arc villain we face or something.

It would be cool to have him as someone moving and doing stuff in the DLC.
Kinda like Ulysses did in FONV.

[Yrkoon]

Are we even getting any more DLC? a couple of months ago I'd have thought such a thing  was a no brainer.  But now I'm not so sure.  Even the game file Sleuths have nothing to point to this time around.


I do totally doubt we're getting any more patches.  Currently we're at  patch version 1.9.    If they put out another one it'll be... 2.0.  For as  long as I've been gaming, a v2.0 of something means it's a new game.   Or a new version of the game.  And I doubt Bethesda is going to  release a "Skyrim v2.0".  It's not their M.O....  But then again, they've also never had a game  as successful as Skyrim, so...

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 mars 2013 - 10:46 .

[Yrkoon]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If you can swing a sword at no stamina cost, why is it such an issue to cast a destruction spell for no cost?
Ugh, I mean seriously it is not like I took all the challenge out of the game or something. 

 It's Your game.  Do it and enjoy.   You don't need to justify it to anyone.

But if you want a discussion about it....

 On the one hand it's cheating in a strictly literal sense, since you're not supposed to be able to cast destruction spells for free.  The mana pool is there for a reason.  But that being said, the game already allows you to achieve zero spell cost for destruction spells.  So all that  this 'cheat' is doing is saving you the time and effort of min-maxing, gear-loading and perk-taking to achieve such a thing.


But the excuse you're giving makes me sad for the state of the industry.  It's a good commentary  on how gamers today have missed the  whole point of "magic".  They no longer see it as an immense power of its own.   An Art to be mastered.    Instead, they see it as  nothing more than  a weapon-type,  Like a sword.  or a "pew-pew" arrow attack with shiny colors and effects.

It used to be a lot more.  RPGs used to do a better job of presenting and explaining magic... to the point where  no one would have  ever degined to make the argument you're making.  But now everyone does.  perhaps we can blame the game itself, for not making magic as profound and earth shaking as it's supposed to be.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 mars 2013 - 11:15 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

 It's Your game.  Do it and enjoy.   You don't need to justify it to anyone.

But if you want a discussion about it....

 On the one hand it's cheating in a strictly literal sense, since you're not supposed to be able to cast destruction spells for free.  The mana pool is there for a reason.  But that being said, the game already allows you to achieve zero spell cost for destruction spells.  So all that  this 'cheat' is doing is saving you the time and effort of min-maxing, gear-loading and perk-taking to achieve such a thing.

But the excuse you're giving makes me sad for the state of the industry.  It's a good commentary  on how gamers today have missed the  whole point of "magic".  They no longer see it as an immense power of its own.   An Art to be mastered.    Instead, they see it as  nothing more than  a weapon-type,  Like a sword.  or a "pew-pew" arrow attack with shiny colors and effects.

It used to be a lot more.  RPGs used to do a better job of presenting and explaining magic... to the point where  no one would have  ever degined to make the argument you're making.  But now everyone does.  perhaps we can blame the game itself, for not making magic as profound and earth shaking as it's supposed to be.

In this case, I agree. Magic has become mechanical in games; not the thing of wonder that lured one from books of Fantasy to games. Well said.

[Haplose]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If you can swing a sword at no stamina cost, why is it such an issue to cast a destruction spell for no cost?
Ugh, I mean seriously it is not like I took all the challenge out of the game or something.

You do, sort of. Particularly if you proceed to spam stagger-lock dual-casts. Plus you render several other game mechanics totally meaningless. Such as having the Magicka bar in the first place. Putting there the precious level-up points. The mastery perks in the chosen tree. Magicka potions. Magicka regeneration items ((Arch-)mage robes, Morokei Mask, rings). The both Altmer racials traits. Spell Absorption sign and/or perk (though it still serves some defensive purpose).

I was always of the opinion that magic should be very powerfull, potentially game-changing, but should come with a high cost attached. Then it's rare, precious and interesting. And maybe makes you conserve it and think strategically, when you really need to use it to turn the tides in your favor. Rater then once more becoming a boring yawnfest of : Hey! Look what I can do! I can shoot LAZERZ outta my ass all day long!

Sadly very few games get their magic systems right, IMVHO. Few are as broken to allow for 0 casting cost spellcasting though... Personally I limit myself to 1 spell cost reduction item.

It's already way too easy to spam spells, with the crazy magicka regeneration multipliers on some items and abundant potions.

Edit: But since Skyrim fortunately is a single player game, in the end, like Yrkoon wisely wrote, its your game and your fun...

Modifié par Haplose, 29 mars 2013 - 01:27 .

[blaidfiste]

Haplose wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If you can swing a sword at no stamina cost, why is it such an issue to cast a destruction spell for no cost?
Ugh, I mean seriously it is not like I took all the challenge out of the game or something.

You do, sort of. Particularly if you proceed to spam stagger-lock dual-casts. Plus you render several other game mechanics totally meaningless. Such as having the Magicka bar in the first place. Putting there the precious level-up points. The mastery perks in the chosen tree. Magicka potions. Magicka regeneration items. The both Altmer racials traits.

I was always of the opinion that magic should be very powerfull, potentially game-changing, but should come with a high cost attached. Then it's rare, precious and interesting. And maybe makes you conserve it and think strategically, when you really need to use it to turn the tides in your favor. Rater then once more becoming a boring yawnfest of : Hey! Look what I can do! I can shoot LAZERZ outta my ass all day long!

Sadly very few games get their magic systems right, IMVHO. Few are as broken as to allow for 0 casting cost spellcasting... Personally I limit myself to 1 spell cost reduction item.

It's already way too easy to spam spells, with the crazy magicka regeneration multipliers on some items and abundant potions.

Edit: But since Skyrim fortunately is a single player game, in the end, like Yrkoon wisely wrote, its your game and your fun...

Exactly, you're in no danger of being out dps'd in a raid  or 2 shot killed in pvp. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Skyrim at high levels is broken already.
If you really invest in armor, and magic resistance and a good weapon how often do you really get a challenge?

My level 81 character? The only thing that even gave him a challenge was Karstaag.

Half the skills in game let you break the game into little tiny pieces and make it your ****.
Magic in RPGs has always just been another tool to use.

Making zero cast destruction, is no worse then balancing it with weapon skills.

If you want a game breaker then use the Restoration bug and make a sword that does 500 fire damage.

[Joy Divison]

Yrkoon wrote...

But the excuse you're giving makes me sad for the state of the industry.  It's a good commentary  on how gamers today have missed the  whole point of "magic".  They no longer see it as an immense power of its own.   An Art to be mastered.    Instead, they see it as  nothing more than  a weapon-type,  Like a sword.  or a "pew-pew" arrow attack with shiny colors and effects.

And we have a winner.  Dungeons and Dragons, with its 4th edition tables laying out that magic damage at x level was exactly the same as sword/claw/trap/whatever damage, was the worst offender of this sad development.

I wonder if this is just a consequence of playing on RPG on a machine rather than a table.  If I had to guess, at least 75% of all magic-user and cleric spells in AD&D - and probably 95% of the more interesting ones that made magic wondrous - are so difficult to implement on a console or PC that game developers just dropped them completely.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 29 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[Haplose]

Yes, I miss games that actually had magic system complexity. Of course BG 2 was probably the best. But also Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 had great systems... in slightly more modern clothing and with the great modding tools and scene.

Heck, even Planescape: Torment had an interesting system.... though balance certainly wasn't it's forte.

Well, I can see a pattern here... seems like the games based on DnD systems had some of the best magic systems ever.

Modifié par Haplose, 29 mars 2013 - 02:11 .

[Yrkoon]

Joy Divison wrote...


I wonder if this is just a consequence of playing on RPG on a machine rather than a table.  If I had to guess, at least 75% of all magic-user and cleric spells in AD&D - and probably 95% of the more interesting ones that made magic interesting - are so difficult to implement of a console or PC that game developers just dropped them completely.

A lot has been lost in translation, yes.  And not just the variety of spells, but their effects and consequences.    Pen and Paper D&D took magic extremely seriously.  Spells like Haste, Wish,    and Gate  permanently aged you  1-5  years  respectively when you cast them.    Ressurection and it's reverse:  Destruction, aside from their 10 minute casting times, were so draining that the cleric who cast them  had to be bed-ridden for a week.  Abusing  Polymorph Self forced the caster to make a system shock check or be permanently transformed.   Other spells, like Shape Change, Imprisonment and Temporal Stasis  and others required spell components that were so  rare and expensive that the  notion of 'spell spamming" was simply not there.  The higher level Fiend  Summoning spells required you to know the Fiend's true name.

Needless to say, you can't  implement this stuff well in a video game.   Or at least I've never seen a computer game do it.   Even BG2's magic system, the bar-none Closest attempt  at encompassing    D&D's Pen-and paper magic system, couldn't truly capture the dangerous-to-self costs of being a wizard.  Hell, BG2 didn't even implement some *basic* stuff like Fly and Spider Climb.  Still, the magic system in BG2,  with its HUNDREDS of spells of all types, was more than enough to give any D&D player many many nerdgasms.  They *REALLY* did a good job.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 29 mars 2013 - 03:23 .

[LobselVith8]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

After playing Dragonborn I wonder if Bethesda is setting up Mora to be the arc villain we face or something.

It would be cool to have him as someone moving and doing stuff in the DLC.
Kinda like Ulysses did in FONV.

That final confrontation in Ulysses' Temple was great, especially since he was part of a long mystery that was only revealed at the conclusion of this particular story. I have a save right before it, and afterwards as both Couriers are looking off into the distance of the ruins of the Divide.

I think Mora has a plan for the Dragonborn, whether the protagonist is his emissary or not. It'll be interesting to find out what it is.

[Giggles_Manically]

That is why I created a character who sides against him, and one who sides with him.

Hell if you have said NO in the Oghma quest, and during Dragonborn, Mora will even say that you will either be a servant or a worthy foe.

Only time will tell.
I really want some more DLC though.

[Endurium]

I dined with Namira last night. Let's just say it could have been a footnote to the book, Surfeit of Thieves.

[IllusiveManJr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

After playing Dragonborn I wonder if Bethesda is setting up Mora to be the arc villain we face or something.

It would be cool to have him as someone moving and doing stuff in the DLC.
Kinda like Ulysses did in FONV.

That final confrontation in Ulysses' Temple was great, especially since he was part of a long mystery that was only revealed at the conclusion of this particular story. I have a save right before it, and afterwards as both Couriers are looking off into the distance of the ruins of the Divide.

I think Mora has a plan for the Dragonborn, whether the protagonist is his emissary or not. It'll be interesting to find out what it is.

Yes, I agree. That fight was very epic and intense. A fight with Mora like that would be very interesting. Even if it is just a bout of words.

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

After playing Dragonborn I wonder if Bethesda is setting up Mora to be the arc villain we face or something.

It would be cool to have him as someone moving and doing stuff in the DLC.
Kinda like Ulysses did in FONV.

I think he'll play a role in the Dragonborn's ultimate fate, but judging from past games I would say he will be one of two influences.

I've only played Oblivion so I don't know if this holds up in TES III, but as far as Oblivion goes- you mantle Pelinal Whitestrake, go mad, and then quite appropriately become the mad god.

In TESV, you subvert the All-Maker's secrets (Alduin's secrets?) to Hermaeus Mora, then...?  The only thing I can think that fits is that you may weaken the Mannish aspects of Aka so much that you are unwittingly forcing him back into his Auriel guise.  In Dawnguard you'll also have revealed his shrines again, and eliminated a challenge to his priest, possibly his avatar- Knight Paladin Gelebor.  If this is where it's going, it's ominous in terms of what it means for the Dominion potentially becoming the dominant power in the continent. So it's possible that the two powers here are Mora and a representative of Auriel.  Is there another elven champion (besides Umaril the Unfeathered which was defeated in KoTN) that could be part of a new DLC?

Modifié par Addai67, 31 mars 2013 - 06:46 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Took a break from Skyrim (playing The Walkiing Dead. Love that game!) and am now ready for Dragonborn.

[Giggles_Manically]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

After playing Dragonborn I wonder if Bethesda is setting up Mora to be the arc villain we face or something.

It would be cool to have him as someone moving and doing stuff in the DLC.
Kinda like Ulysses did in FONV.

I think he'll play a role in the Dragonborn's ultimate fate, but judging from past games I would say he will be one of two influences.

I've only played Oblivion so I don't know if this holds up in TES III, but as far as Oblivion goes- you mantle Pelinal Whitestrake, go mad, and then quite appropriately become the mad god.

In TESV, you subvert the All-Maker's secrets (Alduin's secrets?) to Hermaeus Mora, then...?  The only thing I can think that fits is that you may weaken the Mannish aspects of Aka so much that you are unwittingly forcing him back into his Auriel guise.  In Dawnguard you'll also have revealed his shrines again, and eliminated a challenge to his priest, possibly his avatar- Knight Paladin Gelebor.  If this is where it's going, it's ominous in terms of what it means for the Dominion potentially becoming the dominant power in the continent. So it's possible that the two powers here are Mora and a representative of Auriel.  Is there another elven champion (besides Umaril the Unfeathered which was defeated in KoTN) that could be part of a new DLC?

You know I doubt Bethesda will go that deep into their lore for DLC, they may but probably not.

I think the Dragonborn is just being used to keep reality moving forward.
Think about it.

You destroy Alduin in the Main Quest.
Prevent eternal darkness from falling over Tamriel in Dawnguard
Stop Miraak from conquering the land in Dragonborn.
Do something with the Eye of Magnus in the Mages questline
Plus how many monsters, and madmen do you stop in ruins and side quests?

If you try doing all you can you basically are like a divine boot meant to kick all those threats down.
A threat rises and the Dragonborn squashes it. 

[IllusiveManJr]

I still don't have a character at level 81. I'll get around to it eventually. Probably sometime next month.

[Captain Crash]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If you try doing all you can you basically are like a divine boot meant to kick all those threats down.
A threat rises and the Dragonborn squashes it. 

Yeah, bit of order in the chaos.  Still the biggest threat(?) of a Thalmor Invasion still on the horizon.  That will take more then just the Dragonborn to kick that down.