37007 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

^ you should. Stormcloaks are cool but they also discriminate with anyone who isn't a nord. Specially dark elves.

Can't say the Dark Elves don't deserve it. Any outsider to them is an N'wah or an Outlander. They;re probably more racist than anyone else, even more than High Elves,  probably. 

I doubt anyone is more racist than the Thalmor, who strive to literally unmake Mundus to restore themselves to divinity.

[Get Magna Carter]

lady_v23 wrote...

^ you should. Stormcloaks are cool but they also discriminate with anyone who isn't a nord. Specially dark elves.

They dislike refugees who enter the country and demand a handout which they are not prepared to earn...

Dunmer prepared to work and fit in (rather than complaining that the other races aren't their slaves) are accepted.

My Dunmer sees nothing wrong in joining them to fight the Thalmor and their Imperial lapdogs
(The Thalmor are genuinely racist against Dunmer [and anyone else who isn't a "pure elf" i.e. Altmer or Bosmer])

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I doubt anyone is more racist than the Thalmor, who strive to literally unmake Mundus to restore themselves to divinity.

I said  High Elves, not Thalmor. I do believe the Dunmer are the most racist of all the races. I don't know if the Altmer have ever enslaved anyone but the Dunmer  have a colorful history in that area. I think out of all races they are the ones that like outsiders the least. Even when you get to Raven Rock they're already insulting you.

Get Magna Carter wrote...

(The Thalmor are genuinely racist against Dunmer [and anyone else who isn't a "pure elf" i.e. Altmer or Bosmer])

They don't like Bosmer much, either. I doubt that the Khajiit or the Bosmer are anything more than a means to an end for the Thalmor. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 octobre 2013 - 07:44 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Double post

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 octobre 2013 - 07:44 .

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I doubt anyone is more racist than the Thalmor, who strive to literally unmake Mundus to restore themselves to divinity.

I said  High Elves, not Thalmor.

Many High Elves are Thalmor. The Dominion has a firm grasp on much of Nirn.

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I do believe the Dunmer are the most racist of all the races. I don't know if the Altmer have ever enslaved anyone but the Dunmer  have a colorful history in that area. I think out of all races they are the ones that like outsiders the least. Even when you get to Raven Rock they're already insulting you. 

Some Dunmer; not all of them.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Many High Elves are Thalmor. The Dominion has a firm grasp on much of Nirn.

And many are not. In fact I'd say its a minority that are actually Thalmor, without counting soldiers of course. They were only able to take over because of the problems the Oblivion crisis caused on the Empire. Maybe Altmer can be uptight and snooty but they're not calling you names like the Dunmer with their N'Wah, its not that I don't like the Dunmer. I don't think anyone else has a special name for "outsider:".

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some Dunmer; not all of them.

Yeah, I don't think all of them think of everyone else as N'Wah, but their society is built on racism. They've got their whole slavery thing with the Khajiit and the Argonians. The Altmer may have the Thalmor but that's were their racism stems from. I haven't played Morrowind yet but according to what I hear the Dunmer were quite racist there, even less than the Nords. 

I don't like the Stormcloaks, but I think the Dunmer should stop complaining, most Nords respect anyone who deserves it, taking space in Windhelm and doing nothing but complaining about it is precisely why they're disliked. The Nords aren't racist towards the Altmer in Windhelm. If anything its the Argonians who should be complaining, they work hard and still get discriminated. 

On the other hand, go to Morrowind and you've earned N'Wah status permanently, I like this about them though, Dunmer are funny with their racism and bad moods. 

[Endurium]

I tried once again CTD and Memory Patch ENBoost with FXAA Post Process Injector, my preferred post-process mod. Managed to get it working this time, thankfully, as I really wanted to benefit from the numerous fixes the CTD mod provides.

What I did was rename FXAA's d3d9.dll to fx_d3d9.dll, then install the CTD ENB mod per the author's instructions. I then opened enblocal.ini and, under [PROXY], set EnableProxyLibrary=true, InitProxyFunctions=true, ProxyLibrary=fx_d3d9.dll

After saving those changes I went into enbseries.ini, under [GLOBAL], and set UseEffect=false, to avoid using any ENB post-processing effects. This ensures only the FXAA post processing takes place. Game still looks great and performs better. *whew*

Modifié par Endurium, 20 octobre 2013 - 07:12 .

[lady_v23]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

^ you should. Stormcloaks are cool but they also discriminate with anyone who isn't a nord. Specially dark elves.

Can't say the Dark Elves don't deserve it. Any outsider to them is an N'wah or an Outlander. They;re probably more racist than anyone else, even more than High Elves,  probably.

so this a "they ate my cookie! so now I'm going to eat theirs!"

[Splinter Cell 108]

Endurium wrote...

I tried once again CTD and Memory Patch ENBoost with FXAA Post Process Injector, my preferred post-process mod. Managed to get it working this time, thankfully, as I really wanted to benefit from the numerous fixes the CTD mod provides.

What I did was rename FXAA's d3d9.dll to fx_d3d9.dll, then install the CTD ENB mod per the author's instructions. I then opened enblocal.ini and, under [PROXY], set EnableProxyLibrary=true, InitProxyFunctions=true, ProxyLibrary=fx_d3d9.dll

After saving those changes I went into enbseries.ini, under [GLOBAL], and set UseEffect=false, to avoid using any ENB post-processing effects. This ensures only the FXAA post processing takes place. Game still looks great and performs better. *whew*

Interesting, I wonder if ENBoost works with Enhanced Lights and FX. I dropped ENBs all together, they're alot more trouble than they are worth. They are amazing save bloaters, and Skyrim isn't the most stable of games to be using them. They work fine in New Vegas though, which is the biggest irony EVER, considering that New Vegas is older. 

lady_v23 wrote...

so this a "they ate my cookie! so now I'm going to eat theirs!"

Nope, the Dunmer are way worse than the Nords are, simple as that, they enslaved other races because they thought them inferior and they are universally racist against pretty much every other race, I mean seriously, so far they're the only race that has a perjorative word for outsider. The Dunmer have it easy, considering that if the situation were reversed, they would be worse towards the Nords. Windhelm has many Imperials as well, one would think the Nords wouldn't be very happy with that,  yet you don't see anyone discriminating them, except for Thongvor Silverblood in Markarth but he's a moron anyway. The same applies for Redguards, they're also found in many towns and no one discriminates them.

I don't like Ulfric and I don't support him either but I don't think the separation that exists in Windhelm is done because of racism. Windhelm is not a very welcoming city and you have 3 populations that don't have a great history with each other, putting them together isn't going to result in anything nice. The Dunmer and the Argonians hate each other, and the Nords and the Dunmer have a long and bad history of disliking each other. The Dunmer should actually consider themselves lucky that they were even allowed inside Skyrim at all. If the situation was reversed I doubt the Dunmer would accept any Nords into their country. Besides, Skyrim also gave Solstheim to Morrowind due to their recent troubles. 

[lady_v23]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Endurium wrote...

I tried once again CTD and Memory Patch ENBoost with FXAA Post Process Injector, my preferred post-process mod. Managed to get it working this time, thankfully, as I really wanted to benefit from the numerous fixes the CTD mod provides.

What I did was rename FXAA's d3d9.dll to fx_d3d9.dll, then install the CTD ENB mod per the author's instructions. I then opened enblocal.ini and, under [PROXY], set EnableProxyLibrary=true, InitProxyFunctions=true, ProxyLibrary=fx_d3d9.dll

After saving those changes I went into enbseries.ini, under [GLOBAL], and set UseEffect=false, to avoid using any ENB post-processing effects. This ensures only the FXAA post processing takes place. Game still looks great and performs better. *whew*

Interesting, I wonder if ENBoost works with Enhanced Lights and FX. I dropped ENBs all together, they're alot more trouble than they are worth. They are amazing save bloaters, and Skyrim isn't the most stable of games to be using them. They work fine in New Vegas though, which is the biggest irony EVER, considering that New Vegas is older. 

lady_v23 wrote...

so this a "they ate my cookie! so now I'm going to eat theirs!"

Nope, the Dunmer are way worse than the Nords are, simple as that, they enslaved other races because they thought them inferior and they are universally racist against pretty much every other race, I mean seriously, so far they're the only race that has a perjorative word for outsider. The Dunmer have it easy, considering that if the situation were reversed, they would be worse towards the Nords. Windhelm has many Imperials as well, one would think the Nords wouldn't be very happy with that,  yet you don't see anyone discriminating them, except for Thongvor Silverblood in Markarth but he's a moron anyway. The same applies for Redguards, they're also found in many towns and no one discriminates them.

I don't like Ulfric and I don't support him either but I don't think the separation that exists in Windhelm is done because of racism. Windhelm is not a very welcoming city and you have 3 populations that don't have a great history with each other, putting them together isn't going to result in anything nice. The Dunmer and the Argonians hate each other, and the Nords and the Dunmer have a long and bad history of disliking each other. The Dunmer should actually consider themselves lucky that they were even allowed inside Skyrim at all. If the situation was reversed I doubt the Dunmer would accept any Nords into their country. Besides, Skyrim also gave Solstheim to Morrowind due to their recent troubles. 

I sort of agree.  But if you go stormcloak, won't he be high king?  so won't his err 'beliefs" spread out of windhelm?

[Splinter Cell 108]

lady_v23 wrote...


I sort of agree.  But if you go stormcloak, won't he be high king?  so won't his err 'beliefs" spread out of windhelm?

Yeah, I don't like him at all, but he has some good points. I never side with him anyway and I don't have a very high opinion of Ulfric. His ideas will probably spread out, but each hold is its own, they do not have to adopt the same attitudes that Eastmarch has towards foreigners, which is why Solitude and WIndhelm are so different. On one hand Solitude has its Nords but the city itself and the Nords in it are much more like Imperials.

On the other hand Windhelm is the heart of Nord history, its the city of kings after all and it is what resembles Nord architecture the most, I don't think it is strange that people there aren't very friendly to outsiders. It is also conveniently close to Morrowind, which is why the Argonians (who currently occupy Southern Morrowind) and the Dunmer probably ended up there and it is also a port city as well, and I'd say the safest one to travel to from that direction, unless they want to go to the colder(and farther) port in Dawnstar. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 20 octobre 2013 - 09:18 .

[lady_v23]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...


I sort of agree.  But if you go stormcloak, won't he be high king?  so won't his err 'beliefs" spread out of windhelm?

Yeah, I don't like him at all, but he has some good points. I never side with him anyway and I don't have a very high opinion of Ulfric. His ideas will probably spread out, but each hold is its own, they do not have to adopt the same attitudes that Eastmarch has towards foreigners, which is why Solitude and WIndhelm are so different. On one hand Solitude has its Nords but the city itself and the Nords in it are much more like Imperials.

On the other hand Windhelm is the heart of Nord history, its the city of kings after all and it is what resembles Nord architecture the most, I don't think it is strange that people there aren't very friendly to outsiders. It is also conveniently close to Morrowind, which is why the Argonians (who currently occupy Southern Morrowind) and the Dunmer probably ended up there and it is also a port city as well, and I'd say the safest one to travel to from that direction, unless they want to go to the colder(and farther) port in Dawnstar. 

fair enough

[Addai]

Ulfric never says or does anything that can be construed as racist, except kick the Argonians out and there are other explanations for that- the imperial jarl (Brunwulf Free-Winter) who accuses him of not caring about other races keeps the same policy and says it's because it's for their safety.  It apparently never occurs to him that Ulfric could have done it for similar reasons.

The Grey Quarter probably came about the same way the colony on Solstheim did, intended to be a sovereign enclave where the Dunmer can rule themselves. Except now the rabble-rousers there want to call it oppression. Meanwhile the Altmer in the city are doing fine.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 octobre 2013 - 05:38 .

[Shadow Fox]

Addai67 wrote...

Ulfric never says or does anything that can be construed as racist, except kick the Argonians out and there are other explanations for that- the imperial jarl (Brunwulf Free-Winter) who accuses him of not caring about other races keeps the same policy and says it's because it's for their safety.  It apparently never occurs to him that Ulfric could have done it for similar reasons.

The Grey Quarter probably came about the same way the colony on Solstheim did, intended to be a sovereign enclave where the Dunmer can rule themselves. Except now the rabble-rousers there want to call it oppression. Meanwhile the Altmer in the city are doing fine.

That's only cause she made the "right friends* according to her atleast.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

That's only cause she made the "right friends* according to her atleast.

Nope, I'm going to have to agree on this, Ulfric isn't racist, to be honest there is no occasion in which I've seen him say anything that is outright racist. 

There are also a bunch of Imperials living in Windhelm and no one gives them any trouble either, in fact I'd say its only the Dunmer who get "discriminated", mainly because they;re a bunch of free loaders. The Argonians on the other hand are working and not complaining about it, only that one guy who was upset because Torbjorn was being an ass and wasn't paying them what he owes them. If I were Ulfric I'd put the Dunmer outside and the Argonians inside, at least they will work. The Dunmer take up space and they're not doing much for Windhelm, it is natural that people would be upset with them for wasting space. 

Besides, like I said before, considering how the Dunmer are with outsiders, they should consider themselves lucky, if the situations were reversed, I doubt the Dunmer would give the Nords any living space at all. 

[Shadow Fox]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

That's only cause she made the "right friends* according to her atleast.

Nope, I'm going to have to agree on this, Ulfric isn't racist, to be honest there is no occasion in which I've seen him say anything that is outright racist. 

There are also a bunch of Imperials living in Windhelm and no one gives them any trouble either, in fact I'd say its only the Dunmer who get "discriminated", mainly because they;re a bunch of free loaders. The Argonians on the other hand are working and not complaining about it, only that one guy who was upset because Torbjorn was being an ass and wasn't paying them what he owes them. If I were Ulfric I'd put the Dunmer outside and the Argonians inside, at least they will work. The Dunmer take up space and they're not doing much for Windhelm, it is natural that people would be upset with them for wasting space. 

Besides, like I said before, considering how the Dunmer are with outsiders, they should consider themselves lucky, if the situations were reversed, I doubt the Dunmer would give the Nords any living space at all. 

Ulfric himself may not be racist but he is turning a blind eye towards it.

No he complains because Ulfric isn't doing anything about their unfair treatment by the locals.There are 2 Dunner run businesses in the city you know?

What?You're saying innocent refuges should be happy they're forced to live in a slum and get treated like dirt because other Dunmer may be ****s to outsiders?

[mybudgee]

Ulfric is a Hero of the Truest kind

[Splinter Cell 108]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Ulfric himself may not be racist but he is turning a blind eye towards it.

No he complains because Ulfric isn't doing anything about their unfair treatment by the locals.There are 2 Dunner run businesses in the city you know?

What?You're saying innocent refuges should be happy they're forced to live in a slum and get treated like dirt because other Dunmer may be ****s to outsiders?

I don't like Ulfric either and I agree on him turning a blind eye, I never side with him anyway there are too many other things he does that I don't like about him. 

I'm just saying the Dunmer don't do much, besides complaining, no one else is being discriminated but them. Like I said before, given their history the Dunmer should consider themselves lucky, even WIndhelm has let them live within their walls after all the bad blood that exists between Dunmer and Nords, had the situations been reversed the Dunmer would have behaved worse than the Nords. I mean look at what the Nords did, they ceded Solstheim to Morrowind and the Dunmer are still complaining. The Dunmer are living there because they're expecting to be given everything in exchange for nothing. The Argonians have it worse and they are not whining about it.

The Altmer and the Imperials do not live in slums because they do something instead of just whining. You'd expect Windhelm to be prejudiced against both of them since, the are part of the "enemy". They'd be more likely to be living in the slum, yet they aren't. I don't really think the Dunmer are being discriminated, I think they're just lazy and want to have eveything given to them without effort.  

[Shadow Fox]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Ulfric himself may not be racist but he is turning a blind eye towards it.

No he complains because Ulfric isn't doing anything about their unfair treatment by the locals.There are 2 Dunner run businesses in the city you know?

What?You're saying innocent refuges should be happy they're forced to live in a slum and get treated like dirt because other Dunmer may be ****s to outsiders?

I don't like Ulfric either and I agree on him turning a blind eye, I never side with him anyway there are too many other things he does that I don't like about him. 

I'm just saying the Dunmer don't do much, besides complaining, no one else is being discriminated but them. Like I said before, given their history the Dunmer should consider themselves lucky, even WIndhelm has let them live within their walls after all the bad blood that exists between Dunmer and Nords, had the situations been reversed the Dunmer would have behaved worse than the Nords. I mean look at what the Nords did, they ceded Solstheim to Morrowind and the Dunmer are still complaining. The Dunmer are living there because they're expecting to be given everything in exchange for nothing. The Argonians have it worse and they are not whining about it.

The Altmer and the Imperials do not live in slums because they do something instead of just whining. You'd expect Windhelm to be prejudiced against both of them since, the are part of the "enemy". They'd be more likely to be living in the slum, yet they aren't. I don't really think the Dunmer are being discriminated, I think they're just lazy and want to have eveything given to them without effort.  

The Argonians are.
You do know Solstheim was only recently given to the Dunmer and it's barely hospitable right?
If a Nord uses a service provided by a Dunmer the Dunmer aren't doing nothing and "being lazy".

[happy_daiz]

Endurium wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...
BTW, here is my latest Dragonborn:

Nice looking Khajit, Happy. Reminds me of white tigers.

Thanks! This is my third Khajiit, and I'm noticing that I'm a big fan of that nose scar.

mybudgee wrote...
@Happy: you should try an Imperial character, RP & all...

You know, I wish I could get excited about Imperial characters, but I don't. I have one that looks a lot like Vex, but otherwise, they kinda bore me. I think it's because their racial perk is kind of worthless for the way I play. Usually by about level 20, I'm swimming in gold, and really don't need it. So aside from that, they look pretty much just like a Nord, but without Frost resistance.

Reading through this thread, I see that most of you guys are really into the RP aspect. Sadly, I'm not. I usually just have a loose idea in my mind of what they're about (and by that, it can be as vague as "Khajiit thief"). The funny thing is that all of my characters pretty much end up the same, career-wise. The only thing different is who they marry, or who they adopt.

I rarely ever do the civil war quest (I usually negotiate the peace business through the Greybeards), and say to heck with it. Both sides are equally good and bad, and I honestly just can't pick one over the other.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 21 octobre 2013 - 01:41 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I still wish there was a third option to take power for yourself.

"Hey you cant be in charge! You are not even born in Skyrim!"
"FUS RO DAH!" -cue heckler getting punted 20 yards
"Anyone else want to make a rebuttal to that?"

[Splinter Cell 108]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Argonians are.
You do know Solstheim was only recently given to the Dunmer and it's barely hospitable right?
If a Nord uses a service provided by a Dunmer the Dunmer aren't doing nothing and "being lazy".

I know some Argonians do complain but they work anyway, the Dunmer don't Nobody could account for Vvardenfell's explosions to reach up to Solstheim, I doubt they gave it away knowing it was barely hospitable. I don't know, I don't thin it is racism, except for Rolf, I don't think Windhelm is being outright racist with the Dunmer and I'm no great fan of Ulfric. 

Also, think of it in this way, the Dunmer live in Skyrim, they are no longer living in Morrowind, what happens in Skyrim affects them as much as any Nord. I don't like the Stormcloaks but I understand their animosity towards the Dunmer, they're fighting a war with the Empire and they have a bunch of Dunmer who could contribute to the fighting but they don't because "its not their war". If I remember correctly there are other foreigners who support Ulfric, amongst them Imperials and Redguards. Why should the Dunmer isolate themselves from the war when, everyone else is involved? They live in Skyrim too, the war will affect them whether they like it or not. That's part of the reason why the Nords dislike them, they're taking up space and not giving anything back. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 21 octobre 2013 - 05:32 .

[Joy Divison]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

That's only cause she made the "right friends* according to her atleast.

Nope, I'm going to have to agree on this, Ulfric isn't racist, to be honest there is no occasion in which I've seen him say anything that is outright racist. 

There are also a bunch of Imperials living in Windhelm and no one gives them any trouble either, in fact I'd say its only the Dunmer who get "discriminated", mainly because they;re a bunch of free loaders. The Argonians on the other hand are working and not complaining about it, only that one guy who was upset because Torbjorn was being an ass and wasn't paying them what he owes them. If I were Ulfric I'd put the Dunmer outside and the Argonians inside, at least they will work. The Dunmer take up space and they're not doing much for Windhelm, it is natural that people would be upset with them for wasting space. 

Besides, like I said before, considering how the Dunmer are with outsiders, they should consider themselves lucky, if the situations were reversed, I doubt the Dunmer would give the Nords any living space at all. 

Ulfric himself may not be racist but he is turning a blind eye towards it.

No he complains because Ulfric isn't doing anything about their unfair treatment by the locals.There are 2 Dunner run businesses in the city you know?

What?You're saying innocent refuges should be happy they're forced to live in a slum and get treated like dirt because other Dunmer may be ****s to outsiders?

All right, I'm going to have to stop you there.

"Innocent refugees"?  Ahh yes, of course, they have done no wrong and are in no way reponsible for their lot.  Because Athal Sarys is just a victim of Nordic racist peresecution. 

And where do you get "forced to live"?  I'm not nearly in tune with Elder Scrolls Lore because I've only played Skyrim, but I was under the discernible impression that the Dunmer *CHOSE* to live there and opted to segregate themselves from the Nords of Windhelm.  The Dunmer thought apparently thought to remake Morrowind in a pocket isolated from the rest of Windhelm proper was a good idea bc/ it would allow them to maintain their customs, their ways, and their dignity without any interference from the knuckle-dragging Nords.  Both the Altmer shopkeeper and this attribute much of the "dirt" the Dunmer get treated like is bc/ of their own pride and thier refusal to contribute to the welfare of the city proper.  Hell, even some of the Dunmer in Windhlem say as much.

And let's examine the life of one of the "innocent" refugees subjected to "unfair" treatment: Suvaris Atheron.  When you first enter Windhlem, she is a pitable target of persecution by the local Nords.  Ok, so you are supposed to feel sorry for her.  That is, until you follow Suvaris and realize she's not quite so innocent.  At first, she'll bring up the Argonians as fellow victims of Nordic racism.  Then listen to her in her office complain about the "lazy Agronians" and the veiled threats toward them.  And what's her contribution to the Windhelm community?  Brokering a deal with a notorious band of pirates.  Through her conversations with Ambarys Rendar, the Barkeeper at the Cornerclub and paragon of racial tolerance, we can see she is derided for - get this - being an employee to a Nord to, you know, have a roof over her head.  Apparently "real" Dunmer do not have anything to do with or have connections beyond the Gray Quarter.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 21 octobre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I still wish there was a third option to take power for yourself.

"Hey you cant be in charge! You are not even born in Skyrim!"
"FUS RO DAH!" -cue heckler getting punted 20 yards
"Anyone else want to make a rebuttal to that?"

Yep...and whack Maven...and tear down the TG...and make Riften anything other than a blight. I mean, you speak Dragon; can kill Dragons, Dragon Priests, and legions of Deathlords and overpowered Necromancers; depose Jarls; assassinate Emperors; and kill or threaten anything else within an inch of it's life; but Riften, Maven and the TG are apparently beyond our petty Dragonborn skills.

Yeah, yeah, it's good and proper that there are things beyond the skill of the PC in a video game, but in these cases, it's clearly an oversight as opposed to any intended design.

[happy_daiz]

Aww, come on, snooty old ladies need love, too. 

Personally, I wish I could have taken anyone from the TG, or DB for that matter, as a follower. Or Steward, because surely they'd never steal from the Guildmaster...Right?

Modifié par happy_daiz, 21 octobre 2013 - 07:25 .