37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Hey! I have an amusing little true story. Doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing, but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I had the day off from work this morning, so I was going around town running some errands. As I was driving, I spotted a neighborhood street sign. It said "Briarheart Ridge.".

So, of course I did what any true Skyrim fan would do. I pulled into the street to see if I could find any Forsworn.

[Addai]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The translation of his ideas sometimes missed the mark in the actual game, like with Pelinal Whitestrake and the depiction of Cyrodiil.

And I'm surprised they turned him down - he's a brilliant writer.

Yeah, he recently said that the depiction of Cyrodiil in TES IV has been the biggest letdown of the series. Pelinal is ok because he's really a consciousness that can appear in many forms.  The fact that he's mad as a hatter means that the DLC fit so beautifully together, the CoC being driven insane by following the footsteps of Pelinal and then literally becoming the Mad God.

I have no idea what ESO's bug is.  Some corporate shenanigans maybe.  They think he's not a team player or some such BS.  He would draw too much focus away from the other writers.  I just don't see the down side.  If they hired him, it would be the single thing that would make me consider playing their dumb MMO.

[Splinter Cell 108]

If they had him in there, I doubt that those dumb alliances would have ever existed. Out of all the things that are bad with ESO the alliances are the worst. They are just so impractical and out of place that they end up being ridiculous. Maybe a human only alliance would make more sense, like the Empire but even then it still ends up being somewhat ridiculous.

The Redguard, for example, have tried to conquer Tamriel and almost succeeded without anyone's help, why would they resort to an alliance with anyone, much less the Bretons of all races, known magical users and one of their enemies as well. I don't think they'd ever align themselves with anyone, they were part of the Empire because they were conquered.

[Giggles_Manically]

GRR TESO GRRR....

Sorry.

I just really cant stand that thing.
Just makes me want to play Skyrim again.

[mybudgee]

Yrkoon wrote...


I had the day off from work this morning, so I was going around town running some errands. As I was driving, I spotted a neighborhood street sign. It said "Briarheart Ridge.".

So, of course I did what any true Skyrim fan would do. I pulled into the street to see if I could find any Forsworn.

Nice! See any Hagravens?

[Addai]

The redguard have allied with the Bretons before, numerous times... to destroy the orcs. That's the brainbuster in that "alliance." In the Ebonheart Pact, it's the Argonians and Dunmer. This would be while slavery is still in full swing in Morrowind, and Dunmer don't consider the beast races to be people.

But, this is necessitated by having to split people up into servers that make geographic sense in Tamriel. 100% silliness dictated by the genre. That's why even MK probably couldn't save them. But at least we'd know that some of the lore stuff coming out of it would be good. And they wouldn't screw up the Tribunal... maybe.

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The translation of his ideas sometimes missed the mark in the actual game, like with Pelinal Whitestrake and the depiction of Cyrodiil.

And I'm surprised they turned him down - he's a brilliant writer.

Yeah, he recently said that the depiction of Cyrodiil in TES IV has been the biggest letdown of the series. Pelinal is ok because he's really a consciousness that can appear in many forms.  The fact that he's mad as a hatter means that the DLC fit so beautifully together, the CoC being driven insane by following the footsteps of Pelinal and then literally becoming the Mad God.

I loved that symmetry between Pelinal and CoC as Sheogorath, especially since there's a line that eludes to CoC reminding the ghosts of the Nine of Pelinal. And the Amulet of Kings serving as the heart of this robot from the future was neat.

Although I'm a little surprised about the Dark Brotherhood comment he made. I liked returning the organization to its roots as followers of Sithis.

Addai67 wrote...

I have no idea what ESO's bug is.  Some corporate shenanigans maybe.  They think he's not a team player or some such BS.  He would draw too much focus away from the other writers.  I just don't see the down side.  If they hired him, it would be the single thing that would make me consider playing their dumb MMO. 

I think his imagination is sorely needed. I could just imagine the kind of DLC we would have had in Skyrim with him crafting the story. He seems to have an interesting grasp on the Aedra and Daedra as well, especially their nature allowing for conflicting avatars of themselves.

[Joy Divison]

A question for the folks really familiar with the TES lore: if you had the pick which two races have had the bitterest history, what would be your choice? If the question were which two races had the greatest enmity between them currently (as of the Skyrim era), would it be the same answer?

[mybudgee]

Hey: This reminds me of a question I asked once & never got an answer.

What are the general racial prejudices/alliances in Tamriel? Aside from the obvious ones I was able to glean from playing Skyrim??
I.e. How do Imperials feel about working with Bretons? Do Agonians & Dunmer ever give each other the benefit of the doubt? etc...

Modifié par mybudgee, 09 novembre 2013 - 10:09 .

[Ozzy]

The "benefit of the doubt" doesn't really get tossed around two races that consider each other scum. One considers the others as animals fit for slavery and the others had to endure said slavery for a long time. I don't how bloody the retribution of the Argonians was but I doubt it was pretty. I'm sure that there are cases of certain individuals from both races working together on a respectable level but it's just murky on the base level to say the least.

I still consider Imperials to be a dud race on Bethesda's part but ignore that, haha. I'm sure they get along with the Bretons fine.

I guess to put it simply: Khajit hate Argonians. Argonians hate Khajit. Argonians hate Dunmer. Mer hate Man. Man hates Mer. Thalmor hate everyone. Everyone hates Raymond.

E: On another note, I was also really disappointed by the depiction of Tamriel in ESIV. At first, I didn't mind it as Oblivion was the first of the ES games i played but after reading through the lore, there's just a ton of missed opportunity. From the distinctions between the Nibenese and the Colovian to missing on a tropical and interesting environment and receiving Generic Fantasy Setting #56. 

Modifié par AstusOz, 09 novembre 2013 - 10:35 .

[LobselVith8]

Joy Divison wrote...

A question for the folks really familiar with the TES lore: if you had the pick which two races have had the bitterest history, what would be your choice? If the question were which two races had the greatest enmity between them currently (as of the Skyrim era), would it be the same answer?

The hatred between Dunmer and Argonians stands out, but there are always exceptions to the rule, as Brand-Shei illustrates.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 09 novembre 2013 - 01:13 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I think everyone in Tamriel has a grudge with someone else. The one that stands out the most is the Dunmer-Argonian rivalry, and it seems the Dunmer are on the losing side for now, their country is in ruins and half of it is occupied by Argonians, a "lesser race". It must wound their pride that they have been overtaken by a culture they consider to be less than people.

However, the human-elf rivalry is also an interesting conflict, Nords have been battling elves of all kinds for most of their time, be it Falmer, Dunmer or Altmer, they've always had to fight them. I think Imperials were at first slaves of the Ayleids, Bretons were not much different either. I know the Redguard have a history of fighting the Orcs too.

[HoonDing]

Interesting that Kirkbride mentioned that the Thalmor are going to win in the end.

Although, they are probably not going to win in the way they'd want to.

[mybudgee]

AstusOz wrote...



I guess to put it simply: Khajit hate Argonians. Argonians hate Khajit. Argonians hate Dunmer. Mer hate Man. Man hates Mer. Thalmor hate everyone. Everyone hates Raymond.

I was hoping for a bit more detail, but thanks. That pretty much sums it up

<_<

[Addai]

The major conflict underlying Nirn is Man vs. Mer. This is sort of woven into the fabric of the universe because it originated in the Dawn Era when gods were fighting. If you go back a page to a link I posted, it's the goblin version of the creation story, where "goblins" stands for gods.  Nords x Dunmer and Nords x Falmer, and Tiber Septim's radical campaign against the Summerset Isles, but also the redguard exterminated an entire race of elves in Yokuda before coming to Tamriel.  The Ayleid elves enslaved Heartland human tribes and some Nords until Alessia's rebellion (aided by civil war among Ayleid kings) overthrew them.  Alessia's successors eventually hunted the Ayleid remnants pretty much to extinction, though they probably inter-mixed with the Bosmer.

Not all conflicts are Man vs. Mer, however. The Dunmer (then called Chimer and not yet grey-skinned and red-eyed) left Summerset Isles, led by the prophet Veloth, and came under the influence of daedra, whom they considered their ancestors. The Altmer who stayed behind consider the daedra more or less evil and hence look on the Dunmer as heretics. The Dunmer enslaved beast people and didn't consider them people at all. They weren't sure about humans either, but avoided enslaving humans so as not to raise the ire of the empire. I should mention, not all Dunmer practiced slavery- they had inter-house wars about this.

The Khajiit and Bosmer have a rivalry. The Khajiit may be elves of a sort who are under the strange influence of the moons. One Khajiit book speculates that they fight because they're so alike. Mainly it was over territory.

The redguards mainly have internecine warfare, but occasionally they join with the Bretons to pound the orcs into dust. I think this is the greatest hatred among the races, because they seem to want to eliminate the orcs from existence. It's related to the orcs' mythic role as outcasts. Redguards and Bretons have both fought against Nords before, too, over border territory.

Then there are the inter-continental wars. The Akaviri (men and snake-men from the continent of Akavir) invaded Tamriel, eventually being defeated by a tag team of Nords and Dunmer and joining in the first Cyrodiilic empire as advisors.  Their dragonguard formed the basis of the Blades and they also founded the fighter's guild, but eventually rebelled and by now have died out.  There have also been conflicts between Altmer and Maormer (sea elves from the continent of Pyandonea), and the Sload (slug men from the island of Thras) and the empire because of a plague they unleashed on Tamriel.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 novembre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Giggles_Manically]

You know thinking on it, so many conflicts in TES are just left open to so much debate its kind of annoying at times.

Like between the Falmer and Nords.
Did the Nords start it by violently expanding into Falmer lands?
Did the Falmer start it by sacking Saarthal and trying to claim the Eye?
Were the Falmer just looking for an excuse to wipe out the Nords?
Were the Nords justified in waging a war that wiped the Falmer out?

Its fun to debate but at times I feel its just left vague to cause speculation.
Still though I was a bit miffed we got to meet a Falmer and he just went "Dunno"

[Joy Divison]

Thanks Addai.  I didn't realize the man-mer conflict ran that deep.

Desdenova episodes 3 and 4 are up.

Is anyone here familiar enough with YouTube that they could answer a few questions I have about the site?  Or at least know of a decent FAQ that is a bit more comprehensive than the "help" page YouTube provides?  There is an advertising tab in the bottom middle of my third episode that looks like this [^] and it's really bothering me.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 10 novembre 2013 - 03:27 .

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I think everyone in Tamriel has a grudge with someone else. The one that stands out the most is the Dunmer-Argonian rivalry, and it seems the Dunmer are on the losing side for now, their country is in ruins and half of it is occupied by Argonians, a "lesser race". It must wound their pride that they have been overtaken by a culture they consider to be less than people.

Based on the information from Dragonborn, House Redoran seemed to have pushed the Argonian forces out of southern Morrowind, which established them as the prime House of Morrowind, although there do seem to still be border disputes.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Based on the information from Dragonborn, House Redoran seemed to have pushed the Argonian forces out of southern Morrowind, which established them as the prime House of Morrowind, although there do seem to still be border disputes.

Morrowind is still a mess otherwise the Dunmer wouldn't be trying to survive in Solstheim, a wasteland by all accounts, or at least that is what it is now, especially the Dunmer half of the island. There wouldn't be as many refugees in Skyrim as well. 

Ironic, that the first place the flee to is to Skyrim, home of one of their historical enemies, I guess its the closest area and it is also better than running to Black Marsh or something. 

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You know thinking on it, so many conflicts in TES are just left open to so much debate its kind of annoying at times.

The devs like to leave things open-ended but it's also based on the idea that history is written by the victors and re-written to suit the fashions and political needs of the day.  Because we live in a scientific age, we see history as something settled and are far more confident of our knowledge and our ability to know something than is probably warranted.

@ Joy:  I don't think anyone knows YouTube anymore, because Google has been changing everything since it took over.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 novembre 2013 - 06:54 .

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Based on the information from Dragonborn, House Redoran seemed to have pushed the Argonian forces out of southern Morrowind, which established them as the prime House of Morrowind, although there do seem to still be border disputes.

Morrowind is still a mess otherwise the Dunmer wouldn't be trying to survive in Solstheim, a wasteland by all accounts, or at least that is what it is now, especially the Dunmer half of the island. There wouldn't be as many refugees in Skyrim as well. 

Ironic, that the first place the flee to is to Skyrim, home of one of their historical enemies, I guess its the closest area and it is also better than running to Black Marsh or something. 

There's no doubt that it's still a mess, but they are reclaiming their cities and Solstheim is a frontier outpost.  The councilor even says he has trouble convincing House Redoran to send him any more resources until the mine re-opens.  Blacklight is the major city now.  And yep, it's very close to Windhelm.

The Argonians have been largely pushed out except for isolated raids.  They probably didn't have much of a presence in the south even before then.  In the game novels, the character Sul reflects on the irony that the city of Umbriel is going to pass over the invaders and probably turn them into its undead minions, whereas the An-Xileel who unleashed it have retreated to the inner swamps.  They may have sacrificed their own invasion force.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 novembre 2013 - 06:59 .

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Based on the information from Dragonborn, House Redoran seemed to have pushed the Argonian forces out of southern Morrowind, which established them as the prime House of Morrowind, although there do seem to still be border disputes. 

Morrowind is still a mess otherwise the Dunmer wouldn't be trying to survive in Solstheim, a wasteland by all accounts, or at least that is what it is now, especially the Dunmer half of the island. There wouldn't be as many refugees in Skyrim as well.

The Dunner population in Windhelm fled Morrowind during the Red Year, and occupied the Snow Quarter (as it was known then, before Ulfric was even born). And Solstheism was given during the same time period, after the eruption of Red Mountain transpired; however, as we know from the narrative of the College of Winterhold, some Dunmer actually returned to Morrowind.

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Ironic, that the first place the flee to is to Skyrim, home of one of their historical enemies, I guess its the closest area and it is also better than running to Black Marsh or something. 

Black Marsh seems mostly hospitable for the Argonians, as opposed to anyone else. Their relationship with the Hist certainly helps.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Addai67 wrote...

There's no doubt that it's still a mess, but they are reclaiming their cities and Solstheim is a frontier outpost.  The councilor even says he has trouble convincing House Redoran to send him any more resources until the mine re-opens.  Blacklight is the major city now.  And yep, it's very close to Windhelm.

The Argonians have been largely pushed out except for isolated raids.  They probably didn't have much of a presence in the south even before then.  In the game novels, the character Sul reflects on the irony that the city of Umbriel is going to pass over the invaders and probably turn them into its undead minions, whereas the An-Xileel who unleashed it have retreated to the inner swamps.  They may have sacrificed their own invasion force.

I'm sure that in the end, they'll probably remake Solstheim into something great, the fact that they're surviving in that place with the little resources they have says something. I'm sure they'll make something better than what the Imperials who abandoned the island initially did. I think this isn't the first time Vvardenfell has blown up. 

I wonder what the Dunmer think about all the Thalmor-Empire conflict, they probably don't care since the Dunmer don't really involve themselves in that, but still it'd be interesting to know what part they could play in it. I doubt they are keen on siding with either of the two. 

LobselVith8 wrote...
Black Marsh seems mostly hospitable for the Argonians, as opposed to anyone else. Their relationship with the Hist certainly helps.

Some parts are apt, for "other" life, those parts were conquered by the Empire before, but the real heart of Argonia was never conquered since the Imperials could not get there and most humans couldn't survive in their. I hope the next game either takes place in Argonia, or the Summerset Isle, so its either the swamp infested country or the island full of magic. 

I'm guessing the next game will probably take place in Hammerfell or the Summerset Isle, they seem to be the most relevan to the whole Thalmor issue, assuming they follow up on that. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 10 novembre 2013 - 08:32 .

[mybudgee]

Hey thanks again, I appreciate the info.

Quick question about the Ebony Blade: Do the kills (to charge it) have to be sequential?
I ask because I feel like it should be charged completely by now, but Mephala keeps saying  the line about her blade 'swelling'....

Modifié par mybudgee, 10 novembre 2013 - 11:34 .