37007 réponses à ce sujet

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I ally with the only person in Skyrim worth following...the guy sitting to my right in the cart at the beginning...you know the one you're about to be executed with by that grand and glorious empire whose notion of due process is that afforded to slaves. They, and certainly not their puppet Elisif and her stooge Jarls, are no longer worth serving.

No thanks to the empire. They're the problem, not the solution.  If they weren't so busy engaging in the behavior of late stage empires, they might stop and reflect long enough to realize that the Nords would make far better allies as free Talos worshipping fanatics, than compelled subjects against the Thalmor. The Empire exists at this point to serve itself and are far too busy clinging to the vestiges of their declining power to be a solution against the Thalmor.  They should retract and learn the art of diplomacy and the building of ugly but functioning alliances.

As it is, at least Ulfric and Galmar know who the true enemy is:

"Not this Empire. The world's better without it. Certainly Skyrim is. I fought in the Imperial army in the War against the Dominion. I bled and spilt blood for the Empire. And for what? The Empire to bend its knee before those evil elf bastards? Signing a treaty meant to kill the heart of the Empire itself. To deny Talos? No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise."

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave."

"When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake."

Tullius, on the other hand, the one it took Alduin to save you from, is a prototypical company man; he just wants both Ulfric and Galmar executed; no peaceful solution, no compromise, just dead. Real open-minded leadership that understands what's truly at stake there...NOT.  Far from it, he's just a lackey trying to maintain a dying State that's already sold itself off.

That's how my Dragonborn sees it anyway.

Just gonna give my +1 to everything here.

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I don't think the Stormcloaks should be so eager to go to war. They cannot take out the Thalmor on their own, not even Tiber Septim could accomplish that. If anything they should be training their military, reconstructing Skyrim, flushing out all the bandit morons out of the forts, fortifying their shores on the sea of ghosts and their ports in Dawnstar, Solitude and Windhelm and they should also be looking for potential allies. The Thalmor will seize the opportunity that will present itself when the Empire falls. Skyrim should be looking for allies after the Civil War, I'd say most likely candidate for an alliance would be Hammerfell, maybe the Bretons if they quit the Empire too, I don't know about Cyrodiil though, some people are bound to be angry after Skyrim leaves the empire. 

They do all of this. Ulfric says after a Stormcloak victory that his biggest fear is that the Dominion will strike before they're ready, and he sends to High Rock for an alliance (they don't respond as of game time, probably waiting for the outcome of the civil war or maybe having problems of their own).

Cyrodiil has no more business leading anyone but itself.  It can barely do that these days, judging by the game novels and Cicero's journals.  That's even before Mede's assassination.

But, I've always disliked the empire.  Couldn't wait for a chance to kick those self-important Roman LARPers to the curb. 

Tullius isn't a bad guy.  He even says, at Elenwen's party, that he wonders if Ulfric is right.  Whereas you see the true colors of some of the imperial jarls there, and the steward in Whiterun. Some of them are big Thalmor fans.  The Stormcloak jarls may be bad leaders, but at least they aren't Thalmor bootlickers.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:06 .

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Sometimes, I don't understand the Khajiit or the Bosmer, are they stupid or something? I don't know from where did the Khajiit assume that the Thalmor restored the moons. The Bosmer are also dumb for allowing themselves to be subjugated, especially when every time an invader or foreigner has tried to take over they'd just perform the Wild Hunt. The Thalmor would probably disappear from Valenwood if such a thing happened.

The Thalmor took credit for restoring the moons, probably because they engineered their disappearance in the first place.  MK said it was a "failed eugenics experiment."  The Khajiit birth cycle is tied to the moons, and if they're born at a certain phase of the moons they look like elves, so they were probably trying to see if the race could be turned back to elves.

But, probably their acceptance of Thalmor rule was a recognition that they couldn't resist them if they wanted to, and it was better than a human empire.  The empire had already been kicked out of (or abandoned) Elsweyr by the time the Medes came to power.  For the Bosmer, it was a civil war.  A rebel faction accepted Dominion help in order to overthrow the pro-imperial government.  There were still rebels fighting ten years after this, but by then the resistance had mostly been crushed.

It's a natural result of the empire being unable to maintain its rule over the frontiers, samne thing that all large empires eventually face.  The Thalmor profited from the power vacuum and the bad blood left over from the legions pulling out during the Oblivion Crisis.  Still, I expect we'll hear about internal dissent in the Dominion too.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Addai67 wrote...


Tullius isn't a bad guy.  He even says, at Elenwen's party, that he wonders if Ulfric is right.  Whereas you see the true colors of some of the imperial jarls there, and the steward in Whiterun. Some of them are big Thalmor fans.  The Stormcloak jarls may be bad leaders, but at least they aren't Thalmor bootlickers.

Tullius shows up at the party? I didn't think he ever did? Yeah, this is the main reason why I'm never siding with the Empire again, those jarls are a bunch of morons. I think with the Unofficial Skyrim Patch, they all show up there, the things they say about the Thalmor are so wrong. How can they sell out their own country and the Empire itself? The only Imperial Jarl that doesn't show up is Baalgruf. 

Not all Stormcloak are bad anyway, Dengeir is a better choice for Falkreath than the puppet that the Empire put there and unlike the others he isn't all that crazy about Ulfric. I don't know if they're bad leaders, maybe bad people, like Thongvor and Korir but not exactly bad leaders. Skald and Laila Law Giver I can admit that they don't know what they are doing. Not like the Imperial Jarls are any better, Maven is a criminal and another corrupt person looking to make the most out of the war. Kraldar doesn't really seem like anything but a puppet and Brunwulf starts doing the same things Ulfric did, keeping the Argonians out, meaning Ulfric wasn't at all wrong to do the same. 

Nonetheless, I can't see Elisif as the leader of Skyrim, she is so useless, its obvious that Tullius is running Skyrim. I do not agree with that, you can't have an Imperial General running the country, a Nord needs to do that not a foreigner. I bet poeple like Erikur take advantage of Elisif's inexperienence all the time. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:23 .

[Addai]

The party is bugged so that a lot of people who can be there never show up.  The unofficial patches fix that. Elisif is particularly sickening. And Siddgeir. Don't anyone ever say that Dengeir is a bad jarl, not after you hear that clown talking about how he's glad Talos worshippers are being rounded up.

Balgruuf's steward:




Sanguine, dude.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:33 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Why is Proventus there anyway? He's not only part of Baalgruf's court but also an Imperial, I'd hope he wouldn't be so friendly toward the Thalmor, guess he's another sycophant. What a bunch of morons? Most people in Skyrim who support the Empire are idiots, except for Tullius and Rikke. I can't believe I thought those morons were worth saving. 

Anyway, I changed my mind about the Empire after watching this. What Picard says is precisely, what the Empire is doing. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 novembre 2013 - 02:34 .

[Addai]

Balgruuf doesn't go, so Proventus is there representing Whiterun I guess. Yeah, so cry me a river, Adrienne, about how you advise your father and Stormcloaks don't want to buy weapons from you instead of Eorlund Grey-Mane.

Elisif





Torygg's priorities:



Siddgeir:







A real peach, that one.

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Why is Proventus there anyway? He's not only part of Baalgruf's court but also an Imperial, I'd hope he wouldn't be so friendly toward the Thalmor, guess he's another sycophant. What a bunch of morons? Most people in Skyrim who support the Empire are idiots, except for Tullius and Rikke. I can't believe I thought those morons were worth saving. 

Anyway, I changed my mind about the Empire after watching this. What Picard says is precisely, what the Empire is doing. 

Baalgruf is said to attend as well, according to his UESP page. It reads he's supposed to provide a distraction for the protagonist after you help prevent a Stormcloak victory in Whiterun. I never realized how friendly Proventus is towards the Thalmor. I'm curious what Elisif says at the party, though.

[Elhanan]

New mod titled Cutting Room Floor adds Official deleted materials (except Civil War) back to the game. Thought some here might like to look. Note: It does say to leave it loaded once installed; FYI:

http://skyrim.nexusm...om/mods/47327//?


That Ellisif is so clever; acting naive in public for her own safety. She portrays the anti-Maven, and will eventually rule. Thumbs up!

Modifié par Elhanan, 19 novembre 2013 - 03:58 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...


Baalgruf is said to attend as well, according to his UESP page. It reads he's supposed to provide a distraction for the protagonist after you help prevent a Stormcloak victory in Whiterun. I never realized how friendly Proventus is towards the Thalmor. I'm curious what Elisif says at the party, though.

She talks about how nice the Thalmor's parties are. Why is she even attending that? Does she even understand what she represents, when doing so? What example does she put forward when attending that party, a party hosted by the enemy. If there's any indication that she's nothing but a puppet, this is clearly it. 

All the people in that party act friendly to them, except that drunk guy. Jarl Igmund would also prefer to have peace with the Thalmor. Why are these people doing this I wonder? Money? Is the Empire paying them, or is it the Thalmor? I honestly do not see why they would put the Thalmor on a pedestal. 

Since we're also talking about the DB, I wonder who wants to have Lurbuk killed. Probably everyone in Morthal, but who exactly? The innkeeper? She says he pays, so why have him killed? He's probably her best customer, since there's nothing in Morthal. She does say he'll get his throat slit if he keeps acting like a fool. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 novembre 2013 - 04:15 .

[Yrkoon]

Addai67 wrote...

Rofl!

Daedric GOD:  hey, can I have that crap you just discarded?  Please?

[Splinter Cell 108]

greengoron89 wrote...

Ah excellent. I was hoping there would be a mod like that somewhere. Thanks.

I wish it was bigger, New Vegas has some pretty big content restoration mods. Someone should restore Mephala's and Boethia's quests to what they were supposed to be. 

[Splinter Cell 108]

Who knows, so far the dialogue is there, But maybe its code was never finished or assets needed to make it were never put into the game.

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

She talks about how nice the Thalmor's parties are. Why is she even attending that? Does she even understand what she represents, when doing so? What example does she put forward when attending that party, a party hosted by the enemy. If there's any indication that she's nothing but a puppet, this is clearly it.

Because she hasn't got a brain cell to her name.  She's like a 5 year old.  If you restore the Burning of King Olaf, she wants to do it every week.  She suggests pulling the troops off the front lines for a parade. Falk Firebeard's forehead must be bruised from all the facepalming. If that's all an act, brava, she's freaking committed.

All the people in that party act friendly to them, except that drunk guy. Jarl Igmund would also prefer to have peace with the Thalmor. Why are these people doing this I wonder? Money? Is the Empire paying them, or is it the Thalmor? I honestly do not see why they would put the Thalmor on a pedestal.

I think they're just showing that the nobility in Skyrim is as corrupt and useless as they are in Cyrodiil.  Igmund actually complains about the Thalmor and says he only came to the party hoping to hear the empire's sending them reinforcements.  Good luck with that buddy.

They do talk about the money.  Siddgeir mentions that the Thalmor pay their friends well and Erikur is motivated by the money.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 novembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I guess if they can't afford to fight the Empire, they can certainly afford to buy it. Now I see what Ulfric meant when he said the Imperial jarls are addicted to Imperial coin. I wonder if this same thing is happening in High Rock.I can understand it in Cyrodill, no doubt the Elder Council are just as corrupt and useless.'

But seriously, what about the common people in Cyrodiil, they can't like this anymore than the people in Skyrim do. There has to be someone down there with some sense, The Redguard were right in separating from the Empire, at least the Crowns and Forebears were smart enough to stop fighting to defeat the Thalmor and give the Empire the boot.

I wonder what happens to the exiled Imperial jarls, if I knew any better they'll probably end up in Cyrodiil or some other part in Tamriel, I don't think Ulfric is going to be very lenient towards those traitors. I for one would execute Siddgeir and Maven, and let the rest run back to their Thalmor overlords. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 19 novembre 2013 - 06:14 .

[Joy Divison]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...


Baalgruf is said to attend as well, according to his UESP page. It reads he's supposed to provide a distraction for the protagonist after you help prevent a Stormcloak victory in Whiterun. I never realized how friendly Proventus is towards the Thalmor. I'm curious what Elisif says at the party, though.

She talks about how nice the Thalmor's parties are. Why is she even attending that? Does she even understand what she represents, when doing so? What example does she put forward when attending that party, a party hosted by the enemy. If there's any indication that she's nothing but a puppet, this is clearly it. 

All the people in that party act friendly to them, except that drunk guy. Jarl Igmund would also prefer to have peace with the Thalmor. Why are these people doing this I wonder? Money? Is the Empire paying them, or is it the Thalmor? I honestly do not see why they would put the Thalmor on a pedestal. 

Since we're also talking about the DB, I wonder who wants to have Lurbuk killed. Probably everyone in Morthal, but who exactly? The innkeeper? She says he pays, so why have him killed? He's probably her best customer, since there's nothing in Morthal. She does say he'll get his throat slit if he keeps acting like a fool. 

That's just how Empires are ruled.  Emperors and Empires must rely on local elites/nobles to rule/adminstrate/tax for them...that's how it has been since the Achaemenids of Persia.  Find some families willing to sell-out, bribe/gift them, and there is a mutually beneficial relationship that perpetuates with every generation.  To answer you question, the Thalmor are not paying the milk-drinking Jarls (i.e. not directly, but Elenwen's party is a carrot for future cooperation and I recall some NPCs have exclusive trade rights with the Thalmor), the Empire is...the conversation in Dragonsreach before Whiterun is attacked in the Civil War proves this.

Re: Lurbuk - I think Astrid had to hold a lottery since so many people performed the Black Sacrament for his death.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 19 novembre 2013 - 06:24 .

[Addai]

Lurbuk is so sweet though. I almost quit the quest line on that one.

Siddgeir talks about the Thalmor rewarding their friends. They may be paying them off. Or maybe he's just that dumb and believes he'll be king if the Thalmor take over or something.




They're in with the East Empire Company, too.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Money, that's about the only thing that keeps the Empire running, it seems. One has to wonder how Tullius and Rikke don't just quit on them. It would be great if you could convince them to stop defending all those useless politicians and corrupt functionaries.

[mybudgee]

Jesus I love this game

[Ziegrif]

greengoron89 wrote...

Wow, Ulfric had it right when he described his contemporaries as "milk-drinking Jarls addicted to Imperial coin."

Are these people stupid? Doing business with the Thalmor can only ever benefit the Thalmor (in the long run, at least). The White-Gold Concordat has made much of the nobility and businesses of the Empire complacent within just 20 years after the end of the Great War.

All the more reason to kick the Empire to the curb... if people are already so willing to mix themselves up with the Thalmor in politics and business, then the Thalmor already have the Empire beaten.

Speculation incoming.

The other side of the conflict would be Ulfric vying for his own self gain.
He cares only for the Nords and as you see how the Beast races and Dunmer are treated in Windhelm it isn't a system that could hold against the Thalmor as a rebellion started by the Dunmer, Argonians, Forsworn and other races that Ulfric doesn't care for is a bit too high. ulfric was also once used / an agent of the Thalmor.

The Thalmor control Valenwood, Elsweyr and Cyrodiil, if Ulfric wins he'll most definetly ally himself with Hammerfell and largely ignore Black Marsh and Morrowind due to how he already acts against mer and beasts.

Morrowind is pretty much in shambles as we learned in Dragonborn (Solshtheim had a hard time getting funds from Blacklight). The Dunmer and Argonians also hold enmity due to the Argonian slavery in morrowind (for centuries) and the attack the Argonians did in 4 era 6th year where they managed to sack Mournhold. So an alliance with them may be unlikely, but they sure as hell won't join Ulfric against the Thalmor.

I also don't know what'll happen if the Argonians and Dunmer don't ally with Skyrim as the Dunmer as Mer may ally themselves with the Thalmor just to get resources the Argonians may feel more kinship with the Khajiit than Nords or Mer and either stay independent or ally with the Thalmor and the empire.

Of course if the Empire wins they may have a better time allying with the Dunmer due to them giving away Solstheim basically for free to the Dunmer refugees when red Mountain erupted, but the enmity from the time the Empire controlled Morrowind may still be alive as house Hlaalu got decimated and dishonored after the empire left.

Empire and Black Marsh though? No idea really. Elsweyr and Empire if Black Marsh joins Cyrodiil in an alliance? Khajiit have been known to be unpredictable as all hell. Valenwood? There are people bitter about the Thalmor and as Malborn shows us there have been purges so packets of resistance may be there and as Ulfric isn't a diplomat the empire may have an easier time.

Of course Hammerfell holds enmity towards the empire, but they'd be locked ina  war on two fronts with the empire and the Thalmor.

There's also the fact that the Dragonborn kills very prominent people in the empire, Vittoria Vici, Titus Mede the second, Amaund Motierre. Whoever is left in charge may hold a big revolution in their palms.

But at the end of the day both the Empire and Ulfrics party are bad choices.

Best bet would be to just let the Dragonborn go in there and kill everything in sight one jackass at a time. He is armed with 15 daedric Artifacts after all and if you tell DB there's gonna be awesome loot at the end of this railroad of death and destruction he'd start going after hearing teh word ''loot''.

Also where the hell is the Nerevarine?
The guy's a demigod. How the hell a world famous demigod goes ''missing'' is beyond me.
Especially when the guy can't die due to old age and if he's dead I'd like to meet the person that actually killed the Nerevarine the guy who punked out demigods and an aspect of Hircine.

There are too many unanswered questions.
Bethesda done goofed for not giving us more DLC.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 19 novembre 2013 - 11:12 .

[Ziegrif]

On another bloody tangent the Dragonborn learns the Bend Will shout.

Diplomacy instawin right there.

Bend Will basically solves all the worlds troubles, because I'd be a much more effective power hungry dictator than Ulfric or the empire.