37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Nords go to Sovngarde whereas most people just get recycled in Aetherius, and elves are bound to the mortal plane, so even in death Ulfric is cooler.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 novembre 2013 - 07:52 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

^That's not very nice, I even think sometimes General Tullius gets carried away with the barbarism, more so than Ulfric. I mean sure, Tullius beat the guy and all but can't he show some respect, instead he says he will adorn the Imperial City with Ulfric's head. No such statements are made by Ulfric as far as I'm aware.

Not in my games.

Tullius always ends up on the business end of my DB's blade, since Ulfric gives him the choice. Bad enough he couldn't save Rikke. No pikes, no decoration; just a soldier's death as he rightly deserves.

[Elhanan]

And Ulfric is always lying in the corner of the Throne room in my games; well at least in those where I complete the Civil War. Plus, I prefer Imperial titles of officers....

[Splinter Cell 108]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Not in my games.

Tullius always ends up on the business end of my DB's blade, since Ulfric gives him the choice. Bad enough he couldn't save Rikke. No pikes, no decoration; just a soldier's death as he rightly deserves.

Personally, I don't kill either one, I'd rather have them alive even if they were the enemy. If Ulfric wants to kill Tullius that is his business, I personally do not think he needs to die. Tullius' blood is Ulfric's hands not mine, same goes for Tullius. 

[Splinter Cell 108]

I have an interesting question that I just thought of. Okay, so we all know that the Soul Cairn ignores vampire's because they are undead? How come, you can still soul trap a vampire and get a filled black soul gem?

So where do you find a vampire's soul? You still need a black soul gem to cure yourself and from what Falion says, it seems to me like you're exchanging the black soul gem for your old soul.

[Evil]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Tullius always ends up on the business end of my DB's blade, since Ulfric gives him the choice. Bad enough he couldn't save Rikke. No pikes, no decoration; just a soldier's death as he rightly deserves.

It's not gonna be a soldiers death when I get hold of him, he made it personal when he casually ordered my DB to the executioners block without even a thought for if it was just, or even legal.

I've already befriended Ahtar the executioner from solitude, I'm gonna borrow his headman's axe when the time comes.

I wont even sharpen it, I want it to be good and blunt when it goes through his neck, so he has time to feel it, and If it takes multiple strikes to kill him, I'm fine with that.

Not that I'm the vengeful sort or anything...

[Barbarossa2010]

^The white elephant in the living room. A point that should be repeated every 5 pages or so,,,wait, it is.

Tullius was going to execute you like a dog. I honestly can't fathom how anyone can forgive that and side with the empire...but to each their own. To me, that's the behavior of empire, and the behavior that breeds rebellions, not end them.

Since I've never sided with the Empire, does Tullius ever pull you aside and say, "sorry about all that $#!+ in Helgen"? And if he does, is he repentant only because you could shout him out of existence?

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 22 novembre 2013 - 01:04 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...


Tullius was going to execute you like a dog. I honestly can't fathom how anyone can forgive that and side with the empire...but to each their own. To me, that's the behavior of empire, and the behavior that breeds rebellions, not end them.

Since I've never sided with the Empire, does Tullius ever pull you aside and say, "sorry about all that $#!+ in Helgen"? And if he does, is repentant only because you could shout him out of existence?

So? You can't judge the Empire based on the actions of one person, sure he was going to have you executed, but he didn't make the decision, in the end it was that Captain, sure he didn't stop and I'm  not saying he's not at fault. However, the Empire just happened to be the one executing people, what if it had been the other way around? People would hate the Stormcloaks, the execution scene was immediately going to set a bad reputation for the Empire, there is no way around that. 

Don't expect an apology from Tullius, he probably doesn't care and still believes he was doing the right thing, but he does say it was a terrible misunderstanding though. I didn't make my decision to support Ulfric based on that event, I'm choosing his side because helping the Empire is useless, I thought that by preserving the Empire they would have a better chance of fighting the Dominion, but it seems that only Tullius actually considers the Thalmor as enemies. The Empire's leadership does not want to fight the Thalmor, they want to keep taking their coin, so why should my dragonborn fight the people the Empire swore to protect in order to save others who do not even want to fight the Thalmor.

There's no point in fighting with the Empire, when everything in it is controlled by a foreign government. That's a reason to side against the, I personally do not think that the executions are enough to make a judgment, it was the decision of one General not the whole of the Empire itself. 

[Evil]

Sorry if I derailed the thread, Tullius just makes my blood boil.
Back on topic:

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

^That's the beauty of choice. Liberating, isn't it!?

Do whatever you want, when you want.

Want to earn coin? Become an expert hunter and level archery as a bonus at the same time, then sell off your pelts...or then again, make leather, then learn smithing and make armor...then sell that...or learn to make jewelry and sell that...

Or...become an expert alchemist, spend your time collecting ingredients, leveling your alchemical skill, then sell your top shelf potions for tons of gold...

Or...learn enchanting and enchant random weaponry you loot, or that armor and jewelry you just made, to make big bucks...

Or... you can just wander about getting yourself into all sorts of trouble, doing side quests, exploring dungeons and caves, and make a few friends along the way...

Your imagination's the limit.

Oh...welcome aboard.

Edit: Nix the horse, and the carriages, for that matter.  Walkabout is what Skyrim is all about.  You'll see.

I'm gonna repost this for Merc mama's benefit.


It's funny, but theres a serious warning to it, don't completely ignore your combat skills Merc Mama, I did that at first, being more of a craftsman and jack of all trades, and my first draugr encounter was... unpleasant.

LOL, my DB even rocks glass armour and a ponytail, it's almost a flashback!(minus the boobs of course)

And as for carriages, they're fine for revisiting distant cities from your home in whiterun, it saves a lot of walking, especially when exploring the northern corners of skyrim, but always walk there the first few times, otherwise you'll miss a lot.

[Addai]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Since I've never sided with the Empire, does Tullius ever pull you aside and say, "sorry about all that $#!+ in Helgen"? And if he does, is he repentant only because you could shout him out of existence?

Nope, he's very nonchalant about it.  Not even an "oops."

My legion character was an orc whose backstory I made to be legion veteran, but that just made Helgen worse, that no one even wanted to know.  I had to think of her as a really, really laid-back orc to forgive that.  Otherwise that red haze from Berserk would've kicked in.  And it's the same thing the empire did in Markarth, imprisoning Ulfric for violating the Concordat while rewarding Igmund's father for the same thing, then blaming the jarl's atrocities all on Ulfric in their little CYA smear campaign with the Bear of Markarth.

Also keeping in mind that according to the empire's laws it's always talking about, the only thing that merits execution is high treason and smuggling. So even the fact that they were executing Lokir shows they just wanted heads on the block in a show of power.  Same thing with Roggvir.

There's no point in fighting with the Empire, when everything in it is controlled by a foreign government. That's a reason to side against the, I personally do not think that the executions are enough to make a judgment, it was the decision of one General not the whole of the Empire itself.

No, like I said above, this is a pattern of corruption and that officer wouldn't have done what she did if she didn't feel it would be overlooked, otherwise she'd be imprisoned herself for murdering innocent people.  It's just a sign of the empire's weakness that they have to act like tyrants.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 novembre 2013 - 01:36 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Well I guess you could say it was also wrong of Tullius to simply want to execute everyone out there since at first they were going to Cyrodiil to put Ulfric on trial. The trial would've been a sham and probably would've ended up in the same way. Yes, the Empire is definitely falling apart, then it does make sense to execute people as a show of power. However, historically that never works, it only makes people angrier.

To be honest, the Empire hasn't really given a good image to the people of Skyrim, executions, actively arresting Talos worshippers, placing puppets on the throne, collaborating with the Thalmor, you know all that stuff. Most Nords who support the Empire seem to be doing it out of loyalty, even Alvor has his doubts about some of the things the Empire has done. The Solitude blacksmith is only working for them because he's loyal to the jarl.

I'd bet most other Empire supporters are the bunch of rich, corrupt bastards who are sucking up to the Thalmor. It doesn't say much about the Empire when you have Olfrid Battleborn and Erikur both involved with the Thieves Guild. I'd bet that if the Empire came crashing down they'd lose everything.

[blaidfiste]

Tullius assured my guy that Helgen was one big misunderstanding.

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I have an interesting question that I just thought of. Okay, so we all know that the Soul Cairn ignores vampire's because they are undead? How come, you can still soul trap a vampire and get a filled black soul gem?

So where do you find a vampire's soul? You still need a black soul gem to cure yourself and from what Falion says, it seems to me like you're exchanging the black soul gem for your old soul.

I think it's simply a game mechanic; the same way the Falmer aren't recognized as having 'black' souls, despite them still being people, albeit in a twisted and mutilated form by the dwarves. 

[Joy Divison]

blaidfiste wrote...

Tullius assured my guy that Helgen was one big misunderstanding.

My nine your nephew was more convincing when he assured me that he didn't eat my Oreo cookies

[Joy Divison]

About the whole Empire's responsibility for sending the DB to the chopping block.  Maybe it is because my day job is a historian, but I can pretty much tell you when insignificant men/women on the spot feel emboldened to carry out executions in the name of their government, it is a tell-tale sign of a rotten state/kingdom/empire/republic/whatever.  The Captain - even Geenral Tullius - should *never* have such authority and should fear the repercussions of acting way over their head.

in short, the scene at Helgen is symptomatic of what the Empire has become and why the DB should give it, Tullius, the Legion, Titus Mede, and the rest of them a big middle finger.  Legate Rikke is the only one of the bunch that I have any respect for and it is an absolute travesty that she could not recognize dying for the Empire was not noble death.  She would have been far more valuable to her homeland and Nordic brothers and sisters in the necessary healing that must come after a Stormcloak victory.  How many hundreds, thousands, of Nords just happen to be stuck working for/with the Empire simply because of where they lived, not by choice.  After a Stormcloak victory, those Nords and their families need to be reintegrated back into Skyrim and Rikke could have served as a powerful symbol/example.  What a waste.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 22 novembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...


Tullius was going to execute you like a dog. I honestly can't fathom how anyone can forgive that and side with the empire...but to each their own. To me, that's the behavior of empire, and the behavior that breeds rebellions, not end them.

Since I've never sided with the Empire, does Tullius ever pull you aside and say, "sorry about all that $#!+ in Helgen"? And if he does, is repentant only because you could shout him out of existence?

So? You can't judge the Empire based on the actions of one person, sure he was going to have you executed, but he didn't make the decision, in the end it was that Captain, sure he didn't stop and I'm  not saying he's not at fault. However, the Empire just happened to be the one executing people, what if it had been the other way around? People would hate the Stormcloaks, the execution scene was immediately going to set a bad reputation for the Empire, there is no way around that. 

Don't expect an apology from Tullius, he probably doesn't care and still believes he was doing the right thing, but he does say it was a terrible misunderstanding though. I didn't make my decision to support Ulfric based on that event, I'm choosing his side because helping the Empire is useless, I thought that by preserving the Empire they would have a better chance of fighting the Dominion, but it seems that only Tullius actually considers the Thalmor as enemies. The Empire's leadership does not want to fight the Thalmor, they want to keep taking their coin, so why should my dragonborn fight the people the Empire swore to protect in order to save others who do not even want to fight the Thalmor.

There's no point in fighting with the Empire, when everything in it is controlled by a foreign government. That's a reason to side against the, I personally do not think that the executions are enough to make a judgment, it was the decision of one General not the whole of the Empire itself. 

Oh, you absolutely can judge the empire based on the actions of one person. People do. That happens in real life. Especially when that person is the chief representative of the empire. That's the price of leadership. And that's the way people are, especially if they are a colonial or a conquered people. On the personal level, if that execution scene actually happened to a given player, or one of their family members, their thought processes would be much different than those of us viewing the situation from the comfort of our sofas. Just saying.

State sponsored demonstrations of authority never make a lasting peace or quell revolutions or rebellions.  It is the desperate behavior of authority desiring all else to maintain that authority. Late stage empires are late stage empires. Tullius serves one as a general. He has a job to do and he will do it unquestioningly. I suppose I don't really fault him for that, he is a product of his circumstances and, he, of course thinks he's on the right side of things. But, to me, that's exactly what makes him an enemy.

He's trying to maintain, at all costs (even if I bet he would have personal reservations) a province of the empire, who by all indicators, many of it's citizens no longer desire to be governed by foreign rule. Tullius is the Empire. We can't hand wave away his responsibility. Now, if public execution without due process is the empire's colonial policy, then so be it. Then they're even more of a threat at that point. Either way, we can't absolve Tullius of responsibility. He's the chief rep of the Empire.

And it's not the other way around. If it were, then the situation changes. But, it is what it is. As it is, in my view, the Empire would be wise (but they're not, they're a corrupt bureaucracy desperately clinging to behaviors of the past, because that's all they know; overcoming momentum and all that--they're bureaucratically entrenched), they would retract back into Cyrodil, make an immediate peace with the Nords, and strengthen themselves. But they can't. They've sold themselves off to the one entity that truly wants them all destroyed. I've said it before, but Skyrim would make a far better ally than subject in such a situation. Tullius seems smarter than his superiors, this would have been the perfect situation for a rebel general to emerge.

Public executions in a colony; brutality; outlawing a people's religion. Dumb, just dumb. It's just brute force and ignorance. The empire is spent, and their own worst enemy. In my view, they have to be made to see that error...and unfortunately force is the only thing they know anymore. What they really need is leadership.

I never would expect an apology from a man in Tullius' position, but it would have been a nice glimpse into his personal character if he had. A "misunderstanding?" That's what Orwell would classify as Newspeak.

EDIT: sentence fragments.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 22 novembre 2013 - 04:08 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I don't disagree with you on the Empire but I don't think its possible to immediately decide to side with Ulfric just because of the executions. It is still one man's orders and I'm sure this has happened with other entities you wouldn't think were bad. If all the officers and generals did this I would say that you are correct but that is simply not the case. Just because Tullius does it, doesn't mean everyone else does.

I don't like the Empire, and I never did, especially because of the corrupt people who support it, I used to side with them because I thought that with people like Tullius leading them they would get somewhere but the truth is that they're not. Tullius doesn't lead, and I think they sent him to Skyrim because he's thoughts are dangerous to the Empire's current leaders. There are racists who support the Stormcloaks, but even if that is so and everyone calls Ulfric a racist, you can't peg him as one if you've never met him. This is with just one person, who a lot of people are demonizing.

Can you truly judge the Empire because of General Tullius' orders, or whatever this captain or that captain did? These are the actions of a few individuals, whereas a bunch of people condemn Ulfric, this doesn't mean that either of them are what they seem or what people think they are. I agree with not siding with the Empire but in my opinion, at least if I hadn't known about anything that the Empire goes around doing, I wouldn't have assumed anything about them just because of those executions. After seeing them execute Roggvir, I can say that you are right about the rest, execution for letting someone escape is too much.

One has to wonder why the Empire has the gall execute people just like that but not the courage to take on the Dominion. You'll never get an apology from Tullius, it is simply the way he is, a rigid man who follows his country even when he knows its wrong, I doubt someone like that is into seeing their own mistakes or actually considering another viewpoint besides their own.

[Addai]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
One has to wonder why the Empire has the gall execute people just like that but not the courage to take on the Dominion.

The million septim question.  I'm not convinced it's out of military necessity.  Possibly enough of the nobility are in the Thalmor's pockets that Mede had to back down or lose his seat and see what's left of Cyrodiil go back into an interregnum.

Once you start siding with the enemy over your own people, pack it in.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Addai67 wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
One has to wonder why the Empire has the gall execute people just like that but not the courage to take on the Dominion.

The million septim question.  I'm not convinced it's out of military necessity.  Possibly enough of the nobility are in the Thalmor's pockets that Mede had to back down or lose his seat and see what's left of Cyrodiil go back into an interregnum.

Once you start siding with the enemy over your own people, pack it in.

Explains why he's so eager to let an assassin kill him. I mean its already happening, Amaund Motierre is part of the Elder Council and he wants the Emperor dead and so do others. I don't know if that is good or not, on one hand a better leader might show up on the other hand it might be hard to replace him. If you ask me I think Cyrodiil will descend into anarchy soon enough, regardless of whether Skyrim quits or not. I'd be willing to bet that eventually someoneis going to get tired of the Thalmor and those who don't, who are probably addicted to the Thalmor's money will fight to keep their positions. 

Who knows if it has even started already, Valga Vinicia the innkeeper in Falkreath, did say she left Cyrodiil to get away from the fighting. 

[blaidfiste]

 You guys have a question for Tullius?  Ask him

[HoonDing]

Interesting fan impression of Nirn geography: Nirn

Next TES game must be in Akavir.

[Addai]

That's an interesting map, but recently MK and Lady Nerevar made one to show geographical relationships compared to earth geography and Akavir was much smaller, more like the size of Japan. Meanwhile Yokuda and Atmora were huge.

edit- Found the link.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 novembre 2013 - 03:56 .

[HoonDing]

That's indeed really really small. Wouldn't have expected Yokuda to be that big either.

So I guess then Kamal = Hokkaido, Tang Mo = Ryukyu Islands, Tsaesci = Kyushu/Shikoku, Ka Po Tun = Honshu.

What puzzles me though is Roscrea. That island is probably where Nords were banished to.

Modifié par HoonDing, 23 novembre 2013 - 03:12 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I wonder what happened for Yokuda to sink and Atmora to become a frozen wasteland. Pyandonea is the home of the Sea Elves or Maormer right? Is that what they're called?

If the next game takes place in the Summerset Isle, I wonder if we'll hear about them, since they had problems with the Altmer, it'd also be interesting to have to deal with the Sload a historical problem for the Summerset Isle and Hammerfell as well.

[mybudgee]

Akavir has the roman numeral in the name.
Obl IV ion
Sk Y rim
Aka VI r

But, but, I wanted it to be in Elsweyr...

Modifié par mybudgee, 24 novembre 2013 - 10:23 .