37007 réponses à ce sujet

[MrStoob]

To go back to something above, I think it'd be fun to RP starting out as foresworn, running around with that "The Reach belongs to the foresworn!" attitude, though it'd make navigating Markarth difficult...

Modifié par MrStoob, 03 décembre 2013 - 11:11 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

I think there was something about the Redguard not liking them either, but I can't remember where it came from. All I know is that where they live at is near the border to both High Rock and Hammerfell. Regardless,

I can't imagine Hammerfell would see them as anything but a bunch of murderers and savages, especially since they practice the sort of magic that they are not too happy about.

MrStoob wrote...

To go back to something above, I think it'd be fun to RP starting out as foresworn, running around with that "The Reach belongs to the foresworn!" attitude, though it'd make navigating Markarth difficult...

I doubt you'd be able to go anywhere without being attacked, not just Markarth, I'm willing to bet you'd be the equivalent of a stage 4 vampire. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 03 décembre 2013 - 11:12 .

[Abraham_uk]

How come there isn't much hatred towards magic in the Video Game Skyrim, when lore-wise magic is viewed in a bad light?

Casting magic and using your Thu'um in public is bad etiquette, akin to waving your sword around.
But if a wizard unwisely walks around wearing robes (which would be a daft idea if wizard bigotry was something that went beyond implied comments and lore) then nothing happens.


Maybe frowning upon magic is the extent of it.

Perhaps if Elderscrolls VI was set in Hammerfell there might be some actual bigotry. Hatred of magic is a part of Redguard culture. You have spell effects in your hands, maybe the city guard would be saying "time to die witch" as opposed to "woh, woh, watch the magic".


Basically I want the social parriah that often comes with being a mage.
I want to be an outcast apostate, fugitive on the run.
I want ignorant people to be constantly be trying to kill me just for being a spell caster.
Then us mages can have our own secret hideout where we practice and hone our spellcasting. Our secret hideout can be led by a Patrick Stuart look alike!

Basically I want to be one of the X-Men but in Tamriel.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 03 décembre 2013 - 11:32 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

Maybe you're thinking magic is viewed as it is in Dragon Age. that doesn't really apply here. Sure the Nords don't like magic much but even then they do not seem to be very hostile to it either, otherwise you wouldn't see court wizards in pretty much every hold.

The Redguard aren't hateful to all kinds of magic, just towards things that mess with the mind, such as conjuration and illusion but generally they do not care about destruction magic, and in fact they seem to like it a lot. I think Orcs don't like magic a lot either but no culture in Tamriel seems to shun magic outright, most races seem to tolerate some more than others, such as Dunmer and Altmer.

However, if people seem to dislike magic in Skyrim it is a consequence of the time they're living in, the Thalmor use magic, the Oblivion Crisis was caused by fanatics who used magic and the elven races, the historical enemies of the Nords are mostly magical users. Nonetheless, if you claim to be the Archmage of the College, when visiting Sovngarde and talking to Tsun he'll speak about how magic wasn't viewed as it is viewed now. The Nords weren't always resentful to magic.

[AventuroLegendary]

Don't the Orcish wise women use magic? Were the Orc magic-users (shaman) from Daggerfall retconned? I can't remember.

Anyway, are there any mods to make archery in Skyrim more fluid?

[LobselVith8]

happy_daiz wrote...

Also, do you think Briar Hearts are willing participants in getting their hearts ripped out, and replaced with a Briar heart? I've even seen giants sacrificed on Forsworn altars; do you think they willingly left their mammoths, to be killed by a Hagraven? For their toes? I doubt they went along with that willingly. And if they did, yikes.

One of the Forsworn dialogues in Lost Valley Redoubt suggests the Briarheart procedure is voluntary. The sacrifices are another matter entirely, which makes me wonder how Arius, the author of the "Bear of Markarth", could have viewed Forsworn rule as peaceful.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Don't the Orcish wise women use magic? Were the Orc magic-users (shaman) from Daggerfall retconned? I can't remember.

Anyway, are there any mods to make archery in Skyrim more fluid?

I don't know, like I said most people don't shun magic, I don't know much about Orcs, I rarely pay attention to them. All I know is that they call you weak if you use magic. 

Archery mods, I don't think there's anything big or focused on that, I know SkyRe does stuff to archery, namely it adds shortbows and longbows. It also gives them their unique thing, shortbows are faster, longbows are slower but have more distance. I don't know if that is of interest to you, I'd imagine you wouldn't want to install SkyRe just to modify Archery. Other than that, I've never heard of anything, maybe there's something but I've never seen it.

[Lazengan]

hmmm look at dat nice sexy HD coal textures

http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/37556/?

Modifié par Lazengan, 04 décembre 2013 - 12:14 .

[Joy Divison]

LobselVith8 wrote...

One of the Forsworn dialogues in Lost Valley Redoubt suggests the Briarheart procedure is voluntary. The sacrifices are another matter entirely, which makes me wonder how Arius, the author of the "Bear of Markarth", could have viewed Forsworn rule as peaceful.

Because there are useful idiots on real life Earth as well

Here is another Tamrielic piece of trash.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...


One of the Forsworn dialogues in Lost Valley Redoubt suggests the Briarheart procedure is voluntary. The sacrifices are another matter entirely, which makes me wonder how Arius, the author of the "Bear of Markarth", could have viewed Forsworn rule as peaceful.

He's an Imperial, I don't think a book written by an Imperial about Ulfric isn't bound to be biased, even if that was written with the best interests in mind, which I doubt since it has an awful lot of demonization. It also blames Ulfric for the executions Igmund carried out according Cidhna Mine's prisoners. 

As for Briarhearts, its part of the culture, it is still barbaric, I don't think any other race or group in Tamriel actually does anything like that. I stil think happy_daiz is right, I doubt all of those briarhearts were volunteers. Imagine if the people considered for such a ritual all refused, I don't think the Hags will take no for an answer. 

[Addai]

Abraham_uk wrote...

How come there isn't much hatred towards magic in the Video Game Skyrim, when lore-wise magic is viewed in a bad light?

Casting magic and using your Thu'um in public is bad etiquette, akin to waving your sword around.
But if a wizard unwisely walks around wearing robes (which would be a daft idea if wizard bigotry was something that went beyond implied comments and lore) then nothing happens.


Maybe frowning upon magic is the extent of it.

Exactly that. The College got a bad reputation since the Great Collapse (it would look suspicious to me, too) and to some extent because of the elves, but Nords have always had their own mages. People exaggerate the Nord distrust of magic.

Perhaps if Elderscrolls VI was set in Hammerfell there might be some actual bigotry. Hatred of magic is a part of Redguard culture. You have spell effects in your hands, maybe the city guard would be saying "time to die witch" as opposed to "woh, woh, watch the magic".

They do say similar things in Skyrim, but even the redguard have their own types of magic.  Sand magic, in particular.

Basically I want the social parriah that often comes with being a mage.
I want to be an outcast apostate, fugitive on the run.
I want ignorant people to be constantly be trying to kill me just for being a spell caster.
Then us mages can have our own secret hideout where we practice and hone our spellcasting. Our secret hideout can be led by a Patrick Stuart look alike!

Basically I want to be one of the X-Men but in Tamriel.

Have to play Dragon Age for that. Or not, really, since no one bothers you there either.

[Giggles_Manically]

People in Tamriel really dont care that much about magic.

Especially in Skyrim.
I mean people PRAISE you for Restoration magic even.

[happy_daiz]

Shadowmere (or Arvak), or go home!  I just hate it when they die, so I don't usually bother.

Actually...Shadowmere and Teldryn Sero got in a tiff, in my last run, during a dragon fight, and Teldryn won. At least that's how I think it went down. I was too busy dragging The Gourmet's body to the water to notice. Reload.

The moral of the story is that Teldryn is seriously badass.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 04 décembre 2013 - 06:05 .

[LobselVith8]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

One of the Forsworn dialogues in Lost Valley Redoubt suggests the Briarheart procedure is voluntary. The sacrifices are another matter entirely, which makes me wonder how Arius, the author of the "Bear of Markarth", could have viewed Forsworn rule as peaceful. 

He's an Imperial, I don't think a book written by an Imperial about Ulfric isn't bound to be biased, even if that was written with the best interests in mind, which I doubt since it has an awful lot of demonization. It also blames Ulfric for the executions Igmund carried out according Cidhna Mine's prisoners.

Or Igmund's father, depending on which Jarl they meant, as Igmund's father captured Ulfric for the Empire in the Markarth Incident. That said, the author romanticized the Forsworn in another book, so I don't think it simply had to do with vilifying Ulfric.

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

As for Briarhearts, its part of the culture, it is still barbaric, I don't think any other race or group in Tamriel actually does anything like that. I stil think happy_daiz is right, I doubt all of those briarhearts were volunteers. Imagine if the people considered for such a ritual all refused, I don't think the Hags will take no for an answer. 

There doesn't seem to be any indication anyone is forced to become a Briarheart, and all the active Forsworn members seem to have the same agenda of reclaiming control of the Reach. Frankly, I don't see the point in empowering someone against their will, especially when we have dialogue that the one Forsworn we witness undergo the procedure volunteered for it.

[mybudgee]

Man, I always get my Horsey killed...

Modifié par mybudgee, 04 décembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[Elhanan]

Many PC horse owners utilize the Convenient Horses mod, and I have read it has re-vamped the armor recently for better looking steeds. However, I skip the mod, use Happy's suggestion, and simply utilize the console and add Shadowmere to the game when appropriate (eg; after destroying the DB, after leaving found contracts at their door, etc)

[Joy Divison]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any indication anyone is forced to become a Briarheart, and all the active Forsworn members seem to have the same agenda of reclaiming control of the Reach. Frankly, I don't see the point in empowering someone against their will, especially when we have dialogue that the one Forsworn we witness undergo the procedure volunteered for it.

The Briarheart dynamic reminded me a lot of the anvil of the void in Dragon Age.

[happy_daiz]

Yeah, maybe the Forsworn did line up for that ritual, but I doubt the giants did. Although, tbh, I really don't know much about giants, aside from what I see on load screens. Are there any books in the game world about them?

After I get done with my FO:NV run, I should get back to my male Khajiit, and make my Forsworn dual-wielding thrall! We'll terrorize the countryside, and I'll probably/eventually end up killing him/her off, for freaking me out!

Well, in due time. I may start another NV run, hehe.

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any indication anyone is forced to become a Briarheart, and all the active Forsworn members seem to have the same agenda of reclaiming control of the Reach. Frankly, I don't see the point in empowering someone against their will, especially when we have dialogue that the one Forsworn we witness undergo the procedure volunteered for it.

I do think they do force it even if mostly they don't. Imagine if a Hagraven needs a couple of those things, what if everyone says no. You can't really believe they are just going to accept this, especially when the Forsworn worship those things. I can't imagine every person that is considered agrees to it. 

If they're not even above murdering any sort of traveler that crosses into the reach? Why would they be above forcing their own people into becoming Briarhearts? They don't have a lot in their favor and maybe most might do it willingly but I doubt all of them choose to go that way. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 04 décembre 2013 - 02:46 .

[MrStoob]

Lazengan wrote...

hmmm look at dat nice sexy HD coal textures

http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/37556/?

Nice.  Sigh.  Can my Skyrim take another HD texture without falling over entirely... not sure there's much Vanilla left in my game as it is.  

[Gotholhorakh]

Abraham_uk wrote...

How come there isn't much hatred towards magic in the Video Game Skyrim, when lore-wise magic is viewed in a bad light?

Casting magic and using your Thu'um in public is bad etiquette, akin to waving your sword around.
But if a wizard unwisely walks around wearing robes (which would be a daft idea if wizard bigotry was something that went beyond implied comments and lore) then nothing happens.


Maybe frowning upon magic is the extent of it.

I think it is, where it even goes that far. I think people find it too convenient to use (having a wizard at court or making free with it themselves) and too dangerous to oppress (there's no plot device in Skyrim to stop you ending a smear of crisped fat if you give mages too much lip).

Abraham_uk wrote...

What I don't like about the Forsworn is their hostility to passers by.

One
moment I'm casually making my way to Markarth minding my own business,
then suddenly they come out of nowhere and start attacking. Luckily I'm
the Dragonborn so they're not to bad. But for all the other passers by
that they kill without any remorse.

Though who can blame them. It
is their land that has been taken from them. I doubt we'd be so
welcoming if our homes were taken from us.

Besides. The
Forsworn way of life isn't bad, it's just flat out strange and alien.
The whole Blackbriar business and Hagraven. It is just another culture.
Who am I to throw scorn at them? It just simply is the way it is.
Another culture. Alien. Not immoral. Just alien. Just like when they
wear very little clothing in arguably the coldest and harshest province
of Tamriel. Not immoral. Just alien.

Vae victis I'm afraid, it pays to be the people taking the land and not the people who lost their land. There is little real sympathy in the human heart for the second, whatever we say about it.

It might have been an idea to get vicious when they still had their homeland, rather than murdering hikers.

LobselVith8 wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

Also,
do you think Briar Hearts are willing participants in getting their
hearts ripped out, and replaced with a Briar heart? I've even seen
giants sacrificed on Forsworn altars; do you think they willingly left
their mammoths, to be killed by a Hagraven? For their toes? I doubt they
went along with that willingly. And if they did, yikes.

One
of the Forsworn dialogues in Lost Valley Redoubt suggests the
Briarheart procedure is voluntary. The sacrifices are another matter
entirely, which makes me wonder how Arius, the author of the "Bear of
Markarth", could have viewed Forsworn rule as peaceful.

Well perhaps these things are relative, a society could be fairly peaceful and still have ritual sacrifice. Perhaps even up to the point where it's you being sacrificed.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 04 décembre 2013 - 04:44 .

[LobselVith8]

Joy Divison wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any indication anyone is forced to become a Briarheart, and all the active Forsworn members seem to have the same agenda of reclaiming control of the Reach. Frankly, I don't see the point in empowering someone against their will, especially when we have dialogue that the one Forsworn we witness undergo the procedure volunteered for it. 

The Briarheart dynamic reminded me a lot of the anvil of the void in Dragon Age. 

If you mean in the context of thralls, I never got that impression, since the Briarhearts seem to be in charge of certain locations as leaders, and the Briarhearts appear to be autonomous (unlike the golems of the Anvil, save Shale and Caridin). Neloth's interest in them for his Heartstone experiment gave no indication it put the Forsworn warrior under anyone's control.

happy_daiz wrote...

Yeah, maybe the Forsworn did line up for that ritual, but I doubt the giants did. Although, tbh, I really don't know much about giants, aside from what I see on load screens. Are there any books in the game world about them?

After I get done with my FO:NV run, I should get back to my male Khajiit, and make my Forsworn dual-wielding thrall! We'll terrorize the countryside, and I'll probably/eventually end up killing him/her off, for freaking me out!

Well, in due time. I may start another NV run, hehe.

I think the Giants were sacrificed, which is different than the Briarheart procedure. I don't think sacrifices are voluntary.

[Joy Divison]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There doesn't seem to be any indication anyone is forced to become a Briarheart, and all the active Forsworn members seem to have the same agenda of reclaiming control of the Reach. Frankly, I don't see the point in empowering someone against their will, especially when we have dialogue that the one Forsworn we witness undergo the procedure volunteered for it. 

The Briarheart dynamic reminded me a lot of the anvil of the void in Dragon Age. 

If you mean in the context of thralls, I never got that impression, since the Briarhearts seem to be in charge of certain locations as leaders, and the Briarhearts appear to be autonomous (unlike the golems of the Anvil, save Shale and Caridin). Neloth's interest in them for his Heartstone experiment gave no indication it put the Forsworn warrior under anyone's control.

I didn't mean as a parallel because I know the hagravens do not have control rods.  But what we have here is a procedure that takes a living being, does something that ends that living being's natural life, in return for a form that possesses more power, but aso a process that comes at a same price: sacrifices necessary to act as fuel.

I find it difficult to believe there is not an otherwordly price as well.  if vampires, lycanthropes, and daedra worshippers give up/sell their normal mortal body or soul in exchange for more wordly powers, someone needs to explain to me why briarhearts are somehow exempt from this paradigm.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 04 décembre 2013 - 04:38 .

[Addai]

happy_daiz wrote...

Yeah, maybe the Forsworn did line up for that ritual, but I doubt the giants did. Although, tbh, I really don't know much about giants, aside from what I see on load screens. Are there any books in the game world about them?

Sadly no, but Michael Kirkbride has written bits about them in his "obscure" texts. They were supposedly kings in Atmora and he calls them the parents of the Nords.  I think they're a "missing link" between the Ehlnofey and the Nords. 

"Here is why: the Giants came from Old Atmora, up there across the Northern Ice back in the gone-to-twilight-now age of myth... and settled here in the Skyrim, and all along the mountain ranges of our coasts.  (Yes, they are our true ancestors-- do not believe your aunt from the university-- and, yes, we were once as big as them-- as tall as THIS-- but that is another story)... [text lost]... and after [the Great Calamity] happened [the clan-things (peoples? tribes? Text seems to indicate mankind as a whole, though that is debateable)]... we were of a kind disrupted... and we Nords fell into fighting and drove our Giant-kin up unto the mountaintops [and we were a wicked-folk for many  years]... [until all] things had changed forever. Once the Moot resumed [(unspecified) years later] things got back to a new semblance of normalcy and borders were redrawn and agreed with in beer-talk, and raidings of the merethlands took everyone's mind off old feuds, and pretty soon (well, not pretty soon but whatever) the Giants began to come down from the mountains again. And they were a bit different than we Nords remembered, or perhaps we had forgotten much, but they would not speak to us anymore-- they would only smile in their lazy way, stomp over, and take our stuff.  If we fought them, they roared louder than the Tongues of High Hrothgar, and brave steads would be blasted whole into so much paste, [chickens and all (?)]... [and] eventually we learned that if we left stuff out for the Giants, and painted this stuff brightly and with swirls (they love swirls) and stuck big signs up pointing to it all, they would simply take THAT stuff and not anything else and no fighting would be have to be done (not that what I have described was really fighting-- no one fights the Giants is the point). And that explains the Painting The Cows tradition, for as lazily-smiled as they are, so much that they seem that they wouldn't hurt a soul (ha!), the Giants eat meat and lots of it. "

That's the origin of the painted cow you can see in TESV.  It's a cute story.

The origins of the Forsworn are in The Legend of Red Eagle. The backdrop was an invasion of the Reach by the Cyrodiilic empress Hestra.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 décembre 2013 - 04:47 .