37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

Are you guys talking about using console commands to level up smithing and enchanting?

Why not hire a blacksmith for your gear and Sandal for that added "Enchantment"?

[Endurium]

Heh, this conversation again.

For years I have paid the purchase price for games I know I will enjoy, and then proceed to play them my way, using mods (if able) and the console (if present) to augment my experience. Does this irritate some people? Yes. Do i care? No. It's my gaming experience, not theirs.

I'm not overly fond of combat or of crafting in games, so I minimalize those things. Other than that most of my effort is spent making the game look better, if possible. Yeah I'm a graphics nut.

I play multiplayer games by dev rules, but because of that restriction I don't play very many multiplayer games. MMOs are okay but it takes me forever to raise crafting because it just doesn't hold my interest.

Modifié par Endurium, 09 décembre 2013 - 11:38 .

[Yrkoon]

  Ok, can we  please not confuse  actual  game modifications with  ridiculous  god-mode cheats? 

If a mod lets you instantly go from 20 to 100 in smithing, then calling it a mod is dishonest.  Call it what it is:  a cheat code. A *real* smithing mod  would allow you to use trainers without limits, for example, because at least there you're still asked to pay a price to get to 100 in smithing (training can get hella expensive)

And by the way, Elhanan, Balance is not exclusive to multi-player. Single player games need it too, whether you realize it or not. Imagine, if you will, what kind of Failure Skyrim would have been if it DIDN'T have a skill advancement system.... if all you needed to get from 20 smithing to 100 smithing was to  create just 1 dagger. Or if all you needed to get to 100 in Archery was to fire a single arrow in the tutorial. lol We wouldn't be here today. This thread would have died at about page 400... 2 years ago.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 décembre 2013 - 12:42 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Ok, can we  please not confuse  actual  game modifications with  ridiculous  god-mode cheats? 

If a mod lets you instantly go from 20 to 100 in smithing, then calling it a mod is dishonest.  Call it what it is:  a cheat program. A *real* smithing mod  would allow you to use trainers without limits, for example, because at least there you're still asked to pay a price to get to 100 in smithing (training can get hella expensive)

And by the way, Elhanan, Balance is not exclusive to multi-player. Single player games need it too, whether you realize it or not. Imagine, if you will, what kind of Failure Skyrim would have been if it DIDN'T have a skill advancement system.... if all you needed to get from 20 smithing to 100 smithing was to  create just 1 dagger. Or if all you needed to get to 100 in Archery was to fire a single arrow in the tutorial. lol We wouldn't be here today. This thread would have died at about page 400... 2 years ago.

Console commands may be considered cheating in your game; not mine. balance achieved.;

[Yrkoon]

Again, like I said before, the "it's my game, I'll  do what I wish" response  is the only valid argument.

So yes.  Just  leave it at that.  Don't  take it 10 steps further by   trying to argue that cheating somehow Isn't cheating when you do it. lol  It's still cheating, it's just totally ok, since it's your own game and you can do what you want.

And don't try to re-define Balance, either,  unless you want a debate. You're not achieving balance by  instantly giving yourself 100 in your skills. You're doing the opposite, you're imbalancing the game to your favor.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 décembre 2013 - 12:45 .

[LobselVith8]

You know, this might be a bad time, but I would be interested in hearing how people think a Redoran warrior might respond to Boethia's quest to sacrifice a follower and stealth murder people, given the contrast in what's asked from the protagonist from the original God-Ancestor of the Dunmer and the virtues (for lack of a better word) of many warriors in House Redoran: duty, gravity, and piety. I would imagine the Redoran follow the New Temple now, with the collapse of the Tribunal. It vexes me, and I'd appreciate some input.

[Addai]

The daedra seem to be rather petty these days, maybe because they've been weakened so much by Martin's sacrifice. If I was a Redoran warrior I might conclude he's toying with the Nords until the Dunmer are restored so he can get back to doing something more important.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Addai67 wrote...

The daedra seem to be rather petty these days, maybe because they've been weakened so much by Martin's sacrifice. If I was a Redoran warrior I might conclude he's toying with the Nords until the Dunmer are restored so he can get back to doing something more important.

Didn't that stop them from ever invading Tamriel again? If they can't do that then what do they do besides scheming and plotting? 

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

The daedra seem to be rather petty these days, maybe because they've been weakened so much by Martin's sacrifice. If I was a Redoran warrior I might conclude he's toying with the Nords until the Dunmer are restored so he can get back to doing something more important.

That's an interesting way to look at it (and you make a good point about Martin's sacrifice).

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The daedra seem to be rather petty these days, maybe because they've been weakened so much by Martin's sacrifice. If I was a Redoran warrior I might conclude he's toying with the Nords until the Dunmer are restored so he can get back to doing something more important.

Didn't that stop them from ever invading Tamriel again? If they can't do that then what do they do besides scheming and plotting? 

In terms of conquest, I suppose, since Sheogorath (with the island in Cyrodiil) and Sanguine are able to find ways around violating any pact with Mundus (as Haskill put it to the Champion).

[Sigma Tauri]

LobselVith8 wrote...

You know, this might be a bad time, but I would be interested in hearing how people think a Redoran warrior might respond to Boethia's quest to sacrifice a follower and stealth murder people, given the contrast in what's asked from the protagonist from the original God-Ancestor of the Dunmer and the virtues (for lack of a better word) of many warriors in House Redoran: duty, gravity, and piety. I would imagine the Redoran follow the New Temple now, with the collapse of the Tribunal. It vexes me, and I'd appreciate some input.

You're going to have to live with the contradiction. Boethiah, along with Mephala and Azura, have been teaching those values since the Exodus. That culture teaches about law and purity, but also still considers the Anticipations and the House of Troubles as holy. A lot of subtelty and contradiction.

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Again, like I said before, the "it's my game, I'll  do what I wish" response  is the only valid argument.

So yes.  Just  leave it at that.  Don't  take it 10 steps further by   trying to argue that cheating somehow Isn't cheating when you do it. lol  It's still cheating, it's just totally ok, since it's your own game and you can do what you want.

And don't try to re-define Balance, either,  unless you want a debate. You're not achieving balance by  instantly giving yourself 100 in your skills. You're doing the opposite, you're imbalancing the game to your favor.

Examples:

Player only interested in pursuit of the stories; uses console to whiz past combats.
Player interested in testing mods.
Player interested in skipping low lvls; wishes to pursue higher lvl play.
Player only interested in gaining final achievements.
Player does not wish to spam Skills, wishes to avoid known exploits, and simply inserts their own montage of the passing of time.

These are only a few possibilities. However, I do believe one can cheat themselves in their experience if they exceed their intent; others may differ on this opinion, too. . .

[LobselVith8]

monkeycamoran wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You know, this might be a bad time, but I would be interested in hearing how people think a Redoran warrior might respond to Boethia's quest to sacrifice a follower and stealth murder people, given the contrast in what's asked from the protagonist from the original God-Ancestor of the Dunmer and the virtues (for lack of a better word) of many warriors in House Redoran: duty, gravity, and piety. I would imagine the Redoran follow the New Temple now, with the collapse of the Tribunal. It vexes me, and I'd appreciate some input.

You're going to have to live with the contradiction. Boethiah, along with Mephala and Azura, have been teaching those values since the Exodus. That culture teaches about law and purity, but also still considers the Anticipations and the House of Troubles as holy. A lot of subtelty and contradiction. 

I didn't mean the fact that Boethia is their God-Ancestor, but rather the requests to murder a follower as a sacrifice, followed by killing select people in stealth (the main target being a man who rescues people with the Ebony Mail), which seems to run counter to the ideals and behavior of most Redoran warriors. I know they talk about respect for the Aedra and Daedra, but this would seem to run counter to the behavior of a Redoran warrior who upheld these values.

[Elhanan]

Here is a rather hot Mod for the writers amongst us; a Journal for scribing our experiences in the game:

http://www.nexusmods...rim/mods/48375/?

While this isn't for me, all the bloggers and fan-fic Players may enjoy it.

[blaidfiste]

LobselVith8 wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You know, this might be a bad time, but I would be interested in hearing how people think a Redoran warrior might respond to Boethia's quest to sacrifice a follower and stealth murder people, given the contrast in what's asked from the protagonist from the original God-Ancestor of the Dunmer and the virtues (for lack of a better word) of many warriors in House Redoran: duty, gravity, and piety. I would imagine the Redoran follow the New Temple now, with the collapse of the Tribunal. It vexes me, and I'd appreciate some input.

You're going to have to live with the contradiction. Boethiah, along with Mephala and Azura, have been teaching those values since the Exodus. That culture teaches about law and purity, but also still considers the Anticipations and the House of Troubles as holy. A lot of subtelty and contradiction. 

I didn't mean the fact that Boethia is their God-Ancestor, but rather the requests to murder a follower as a sacrifice, followed by killing select people in stealth (the main target being a man who rescues people with the Ebony Mail), which seems to run counter to the ideals and behavior of most Redoran warriors. I know they talk about respect for the Aedra and Daedra, but this would seem to run counter to the behavior of a Redoran warrior who upheld these values.

From the end of Boethiah's Proving:

~If in reading, your blood boils in your veins, and your mind blazon with fire, then Boethiah calls you. It is then most wise heed to her call. Find her on the mount which overlooks Windhelm. Meet us there and be tested.~

Maybe after reading it, your Redoran's blood doesn't boil, and he looks for other ways to pay his respects to Boethiah (duty to one's own honor).

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Again, like I said before, the "it's my game, I'll  do what I wish" response  is the only valid argument.

So yes.  Just  leave it at that.  Don't  take it 10 steps further by   trying to argue that cheating somehow Isn't cheating when you do it. lol  It's still cheating, it's just totally ok, since it's your own game and you can do what you want.

And don't try to re-define Balance, either,  unless you want a debate. You're not achieving balance by  instantly giving yourself 100 in your skills. You're doing the opposite, you're imbalancing the game to your favor.

Examples:

Player only interested in pursuit of the stories; uses console to whiz past combats.
Player interested in testing mods.
Player interested in skipping low lvls; wishes to pursue higher lvl play.
Player only interested in gaining final achievements.
Player does not wish to spam Skills, wishes to avoid known exploits, and simply inserts their own montage of the passing of time.

These are only a few possibilities. However, I do believe one can cheat themselves in their experience if they exceed their intent; others may differ on this opinion, too. . .

In light of this discussion, what exactly are these supposed to be examples of?     Reasons to cheat? 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 10 décembre 2013 - 02:43 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I didn't mean the fact that Boethia is their God-Ancestor, but rather the requests to murder a follower as a sacrifice, followed by killing select people in stealth (the main target being a man who rescues people with the Ebony Mail), which seems to run counter to the ideals and behavior of most Redoran warriors. I know they talk about respect for the Aedra and Daedra, but this would seem to run counter to the behavior of a Redoran warrior who upheld these values.

If I made a Dunmer he wouldn't be a very good Dunmer. For one I don't deal with any Daedra, regardless of the circumstance, I could say he still worships the old tribunal since it seems not everyone in Solstheim has abandoned those ideas. 

As for the conosle, yeah I use it but cheating is cheating, that is what it is. Although if you do get stuck on a rock or something and use tcl to get out, is that exactly cheating? I'm not sure. 

Modifié par Splinter Cell 108, 10 décembre 2013 - 03:16 .

[Joy Divison]

I never played Morrowind.  What's the difference between Boethia in Morrowind and Skyrim?

I just completed Part II of the Desdenova-Eola partnership.  It was the first time I really tried to role-play Reachcliff Cave and contemplate Eola's offer.  I think Desdenova's comments after hearing it bring up some potential problems with how the game presents the quest if you do not metagame.

[Sigma Tauri]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I didn't mean the fact that Boethia is
their God-Ancestor, but rather the requests to murder a follower as a
sacrifice, followed by killing select people in stealth (the main target
being a man who rescues people with the Ebony Mail), which seems to run
counter to the ideals and behavior of most Redoran warriors. I know
they talk about respect for the Aedra and Daedra, but this would seem to
run counter to the behavior of a Redoran warrior who upheld these
values.

Okay. I'll give you a background for your dark elf that he can live with. Tribunal values still dominate a post-Tribunal Morrowind society. In a way, the Reclamations are a return to the traditional ancestor-worship of old high Velothi culture. But, centuries of Tribunal culture that promoted duty, piety, and gravity, which are exemplified by the Dunmer saints, and the knowledge that the daedric powers were always capricious, maintains a uniquely dark elven stance of daedric worship.

Or live with the contradiction. The worship of the Tribunal always had a dark flavor in it.

Joy Divison wrote...

I never played Morrowind.  What's the difference between Boethia in Morrowind and Skyrim?

Boethiah's a woman in Skyrim, a man in Morrowind.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 10 décembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[happy_daiz]

^ That seems perfectly reasonable. Daedric Prince and all.

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

In light of this discussion, what exactly are these supposed to be examples of?     Reasons to cheat? 

No; reasons to use the console to increase stats as you proposed. These are not cheating.

[blaidfiste]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

As for the conosle, yeah I use it but cheating is cheating, that is what it is. Although if you do get stuck on a rock or something and use tcl to get out, is that exactly cheating? I'm not sure. 

Unless there's a Skyrim Gamer of the Year Award ($500 prize) given to honest players, I'd say it doesn't matter what you do in your game.

[happy_daiz]

blaidfiste wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

As for the conosle, yeah I use it but cheating is cheating, that is what it is. Although if you do get stuck on a rock or something and use tcl to get out, is that exactly cheating? I'm not sure. 

Unless there's a Skyrim Gamer of the Year Award ($500 prize) given to honest players, I'd say it doesn't matter what you do in your game.

Ooh, if there was, I should win. I'm on xbox (no mods or munchkining) and I could use the cash to go towards my new gaming pc.

[LobselVith8]

Joy Divison wrote...

I never played Morrowind.  What's the difference between Boethia in Morrowind and Skyrim?

The Nerevarine is tasked with getting the Orc sculptor, Duma gro-Lag, with fixing the shrine of Boethia in order to receive Goldbrand - a weapon rumored to have been created by dragons. Boethia simply wants his shrine restored, since his priests have forgotten him, while his demand in Cyrodiil is to test the Champion's mettle against other willing opponents.

In Morrowind, M'aiq (the apparent progenitor of the M'aiq family) can tell the protagonist about Boethia's task. Amusingly, Nerevarine will describe it as: "[this] khajiit seems to have a lot of ridiculous information". It's a trait the Liar clan inherited.

Joy Divison wrote...

I just completed Part II of the Desdenova-Eola partnership.  It was the first time I really tried to role-play Reachcliff Cave and contemplate Eola's offer.  I think Desdenova's comments after hearing it bring up some potential problems with how the game presents the quest if you do not metagame. 

I was astonished the first time I heard your voice a while back when you initially presented your protagonist, and realized you weren't a female elf. 

[Elhanan]

happy_daiz wrote...

Ooh, if there was, I should win. I'm on xbox (no mods or munchkining) and I could use the cash to go towards my new gaming pc.

Perhaps you would win, but being on a console, or not using console commands does not stop a Player from using exploits and gaming the system. When I read of hints that state one can pay for Training, then simply take the gold back from the instructor in some fashion, I wince a bit.  Same goes for exploits in spamming Skills to increase points. Etc.

But as I said earlier, what is incorrect for my style of play does not invalidate another. I simply prefer to use console commands and mods to improve my gaming experience over using such exploits.

BTW - Does anyone know of the next big CRPG that will allow Modding like Skyrim? My next planned purchase is DAI, but it may not have a toolkit, mods, etc.  Thanks!

[Joy Divison]

blaidfiste wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

As for the conosle, yeah I use it but cheating is cheating, that is what it is. Although if you do get stuck on a rock or something and use tcl to get out, is that exactly cheating? I'm not sure. 

Unless there's a Skyrim Gamer of the Year Award ($500 prize) given to honest players, I'd say it doesn't matter what you do in your game.

I think this guy won it last year