37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

Wait...  one more comment on the  brief  but glorious Skyrim suxxors spat we just had....

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I wish more developers made such poor and lacking games.

You know what I find so immensly satisfying?  

How the  entire  RPG industry's rank and file has  acknowledged Skyrim as an RPG  paragon.   Something  to be immitated, instead of shunned.    They see Skyrim as  a plateau which now  must be reached with their own games.    It's literally the copy-cat syndrom we're seeing. 


  Look around and read. Bioware has promised that DA:I will have a large open world... a direct nod to Skyrim and  a massive  180 about face from the DA2 and DA:O.    Then we've got  CDProjeckt promising  a sandbox with  Witcher 3 (!)  Even Obsidian is taking a cue.  They're developing   Pillars of   Eternity, a game funded by masses of Old Schoolers who've professed nothing but disgust for Skyrim.      Yet  Eternity  happens to be lead developed by Josh Sawyer who is  promising to deliver   a ton of Skyrim's features in  the game:  1) exploration  2) non-rigid  character classes  3) NO level scaling  4) a powerful crafting system.

Lets step back for a moment and ask ourselves WHY  this is happening.  Money, of course.  Bethesda is almost a Billion dollars richer because of Skyrim and now everyone else wants to  get that rich too.  Good for them, I say.  Skyrim is a pretty decent model to emmulate.  Start from there, Devs.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:08 .

[Maverick827]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

A point I often wonder since a number of issues I'm hearing could immediately be solved by doing such. Tired of one-shotting your enemies, dial it up to Master. Problem solved.

The problem with increasing the difficulty is that, at most points during the game, going from one difficulty to another causes a very dramatic change. I could go from killing a random bandit with one arrow on Expert to have to pump twenty arrows into that same bandit on Master, which is just as unbalanced in the opposite direction. You need to be very precise on when you increase the difficulty. It's like driving manual, only instead of shifting gears, you shift difficulty.

Eventually I always reach Master/Legendary. Along the way I enable/disable various mods as well (e.g., Expert -> Expert + Deadly Dragons -> Master -> Master + Deadly Dragons). It's tough to get something balanced for a fairly high level character with full blacksmithing/enchanting, though. You're just damn near unkillable with full armor, a ton of health, heal spells, and a powerful weapon.

With a mixture of mods and changing the difficulty it's possible to reach some semblance of balance, but it's a lot of effort on the player's part.

Also, there is already level scaling in Skyrim. They didn't remove it from Oblivion entirely. It's just implemented better this time. Next time they can do even better, probably.

The amount of Skyrim fanaticism on this thread is troubling. It seems some people believe there's only two viewpoints on a game: you either think it's flawless, or you're hating on it and should GTFO of the thread. For people who are decrying how shameful all of this bickering is, that's a pretty odd stance to take.

[Yrkoon]

I don't understand  the desire to make  sure every fight is a challenge. A Playthrough can last 300+ hours.  That's a pretty long time.    Don't you get tired?    Don't you "balance-at-all-costs" peeps ever get the urge to  stop struggling and enjoy some unchallenged Godhood every once in a while?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 décembre 2013 - 12:30 .

[Joy Divison]

Maverick827 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

A point I often wonder since a number of issues I'm hearing could immediately be solved by doing such. Tired of one-shotting your enemies, dial it up to Master. Problem solved.

The problem with increasing the difficulty is that, at most points during the game, going from one difficulty to another causes a very dramatic change. I could go from killing a random bandit with one arrow on Expert to have to pump twenty arrows into that same bandit on Master, which is just as unbalanced in the opposite direction. You need to be very precise on when you increase the difficulty. It's like driving manual, only instead of shifting gears, you shift difficulty.

Eventually I always reach Master/Legendary. Along the way I enable/disable various mods as well (e.g., Expert -> Expert + Deadly Dragons -> Master -> Master + Deadly Dragons). It's tough to get something balanced for a fairly high level character with full blacksmithing/enchanting, though. You're just damn near unkillable with full armor, a ton of health, heal spells, and a powerful weapon.

With a mixture of mods and changing the difficulty it's possible to reach some semblance of balance, but it's a lot of effort on the player's part.

Also, there is already level scaling in Skyrim. They didn't remove it from Oblivion entirely. It's just implemented better this time. Next time they can do even better, probably.

The amount of Skyrim fanaticism on this thread is troubling. It seems some people believe there's only two viewpoints on a game: you either think it's flawless, or you're hating on it and should GTFO of the thread. For people who are decrying how shameful all of this bickering is, that's a pretty odd stance to take.

Couple of things.

You don't go from one arrow killing a bandit on expert to 20 on Master ... you go to one and a half.  So the question must be asked, why did you grossly exaggerate?

Skyrim fanaticism?  Who thinks it is flawless?  Please, show us ... it shouldn't be that hard because the sheer amount of it is "troubling".  I can tell you I have leveled many criticisms of the game the past two years on this thread and have never been told to GTFO.  And so have the other regular posters.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:03 .

[themonty72]

My god a person explain the unbalance in Skyrim another is upset about it. A person explains a few flaws in the game that he didn't like here comes the swords , shields, and armor.

[Maverick827]

Joy Divison wrote...

You don't go from one arrow killing a bandit on expert to 20 on Master ... you go to one and a half.  So the question must be asked, why did you grossly exaggerate?

Twenty may have been an exaggeration, but so is one and a half.  An actual number would probably be around seven.  The imbalance of Skyrim's enemy health/armor and PC damage with regards difficulty/scaling is well documented.

[Addai]

Maverick827 wrote...

The amount of Skyrim fanaticism on this thread is troubling. It seems some people believe there's only two viewpoints on a game: you either think it's flawless, or you're hating on it and should GTFO of the thread. For people who are decrying how shameful all of this bickering is, that's a pretty odd stance to take.

I pointed out that the nature of the game makes a very controlled experience- which it would have to be to be "balanced"- not only difficult, it would ruin what is good about the game.  That's what is annoying about certain criticisms of the game. People are essentially saying "why can't Bethesda stop making Bethesda games"- when nearly every other game developer out there is seeking to control and limit the player's freedom and micromanage their experience.

I wasn't decrying you, BTW, because you actually had a point of discussion rather than a one-line dismissal of everything about the game. Why people torture themselves playing games they hate is a puzzle- though not one I care to unravel.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 décembre 2013 - 01:54 .

[Joy Divison]

Maverick827 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

You don't go from one arrow killing a bandit on expert to 20 on Master ... you go to one and a half.  So the question must be asked, why did you grossly exaggerate?

Twenty may have been an exaggeration, but so is one and a half.  An actual number would probably be around seven.  The imbalance of Skyrim's enemy health/armor and PC damage with regards difficulty/scaling is well documented.

No, you are wrong.  What expert level difficulty does it multiply the PC's damage by 0.75.  Master mulitplies it by 0.5.

Your arrow that does 75 damage on expert does 50 on master.

So, you tell me how it is that 350 damage that will come from 7 arrows on master level difficulty is necessary when 75 on expert will one-shot an opponent?

If the imbalances are well documented, how is it that you are so ill informed?

[Lazengan]

AWwww shiiiiieeet, new pretty gems for my waifu

http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/48933/?

[Yrkoon]

themonty72 wrote...

My god a person explain the unbalance in Skyrim another is upset about it. A person explains a few flaws in the game that he didn't like here comes the swords , shields, and armor.

LOL

Are we supposed to just  forget that the ONLY angry outburst  in this discussion came from YOU?

themonty72 wrote...
Look smart ass .You cant tell me play something else I play what I want to play. I seen you around leaving smart comments. I m surprise Bioware Social havent ban you.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[blaidfiste]

Joy Divison wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

You don't go from one arrow killing a bandit on expert to 20 on Master ... you go to one and a half.  So the question must be asked, why did you grossly exaggerate?

Twenty may have been an exaggeration, but so is one and a half.  An actual number would probably be around seven.  The imbalance of Skyrim's enemy health/armor and PC damage with regards difficulty/scaling is well documented.

No, you are wrong.  What expert level difficulty does it multiply the PC's damage by 0.75.  Master mulitplies it by 0.5.

Your arrow that does 75 damage on expert does 50 on master.

So, you tell me how it is that 350 damage that will come from 7 arrows on master level difficulty is necessary when 75 on expert will one-shot an opponent?

If the imbalances are well documented, how is it that you are so ill informed?

It's possible if you miss 5.5 times.

[Yrkoon]

Doesn't master difficulty also beef up the enemy's health?

[Maverick827]

If you do some Googling, you'll see many stories of Skyrim's health imbalance. The Wiki only mentions the damage multiplier, but Skyrim's wiki's are always lacking (to this modder's chagrin). There's something else at work, more health, more armor, or an odd interaction between the damage multiplier from armor and the damage multiplier from the difficulty setting.

I'd be glad to record a video the next time I have Skyrim installed and a play through going.

[Joy Divison]

Maverick827 wrote...

If you do some Googling, you'll see many stories of Skyrim's health imbalance. The Wiki only mentions the damage multiplier, but Skyrim's wiki's are always lacking (to this modder's chagrin). There's something else at work, more health, more armor, or an odd interaction between the damage multiplier from armor and the damage multiplier from the difficulty setting.

I'd be glad to record a video the next time I have Skyrim installed and a play through going.

Just once I want to see someone actually write on the internet: "Wow, I didn't realize that.  Thank you for clearing up my mistaken impressions."

Enemies do not get extra health or extra armor.  Your weapons do less damage.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 20 décembre 2013 - 03:55 .

[Joy Divison]

blaidfiste wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

You don't go from one arrow killing a bandit on expert to 20 on Master ... you go to one and a half.  So the question must be asked, why did you grossly exaggerate?

Twenty may have been an exaggeration, but so is one and a half.  An actual number would probably be around seven.  The imbalance of Skyrim's enemy health/armor and PC damage with regards difficulty/scaling is well documented.

No, you are wrong.  What expert level difficulty does it multiply the PC's damage by 0.75.  Master mulitplies it by 0.5.

Your arrow that does 75 damage on expert does 50 on master.

So, you tell me how it is that 350 damage that will come from 7 arrows on master level difficulty is necessary when 75 on expert will one-shot an opponent?

If the imbalances are well documented, how is it that you are so ill informed?

It's possible if you miss 5.5 times.

touche

[Maverick827]

Joy Divison wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

If you do some Googling, you'll see many stories of Skyrim's health imbalance. The Wiki only mentions the damage multiplier, but Skyrim's wiki's are always lacking (to this modder's chagrin). There's something else at work, more health, more armor, or an odd interaction between the damage multiplier from armor and the damage multiplier from the difficulty setting.

I'd be glad to record a video the next time I have Skyrim installed and a play through going.

Just once I want to see someone actually write on the internet: "Wow, I didn't realize that.  Thank you for clearing up my mistaken impressions."

Enemies do not get extra health or extra armor.  Your weapons do less damage.

They're not mistaken impressions, they're experiences with the game shared by many for the past two years.  Whether or not it's the enemy's health, armor, a damage multiplier on the player,  or a bug that some see and some do not, the experience exists.  

What do you think I gain by lying about this, as a large fan of the game myself?

[Elhanan]

Joy has it; the slider only nerfs the Player while buffing the opposition. This is the main reason I leave it on Adept, as it remains even on both sides.

For actually increasing the difficulty, I add a few mods that improves AI, adds higher leveled enemies, and improves spells for both sides.

[Joy Divison]

Maverick827 wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

If you do some Googling, you'll see many stories of Skyrim's health imbalance. The Wiki only mentions the damage multiplier, but Skyrim's wiki's are always lacking (to this modder's chagrin). There's something else at work, more health, more armor, or an odd interaction between the damage multiplier from armor and the damage multiplier from the difficulty setting.

I'd be glad to record a video the next time I have Skyrim installed and a play through going.

Just once I want to see someone actually write on the internet: "Wow, I didn't realize that.  Thank you for clearing up my mistaken impressions."

Enemies do not get extra health or extra armor.  Your weapons do less damage.

They're not mistaken impressions, they're experiences with the game shared by many for the past two years.  Whether or not it's the enemy's health, armor, a damage multiplier on the player,  or a bug that some see and some do not, the experience exists.  

What do you think I gain by lying about this, as a large fan of the game myself?

Who?  Where are these experiences documented?  You keep referring to vague references but do not actually provide any.  I'll tell you why you won't provide any: they don't exist.  All the Skyrim difficulty does is place a multiplier to the damage the DB does and receives.  That's it.  No big mystery, no conspiracy, no bug.  Unlike you, I have given you an example that supports my contention, which is actually documented Here and Here

I don't think you are lying,  I think you are unwilling to admit that you are wrong or for some reason prefer to believe in your gut instinct/unsupported speculations over documented evidence provided by people who are being objective.

Before you labeled this forum full of "Skyrim fanaticism."  Have you ever considered that the people on this forum APPEAR to be Skyrim fanatics is because too often we have too spend entirely too much time and ink in debunking baseless opinions that are just *wrong* & completely misrepresent the game and have no evidence to support them?  That these critics continue to insist they are somehow right even though they produce nothing but unsubstantiated hearsay, undocumented anecdotes, and their opinions?  Whereas some of us actually provide evidence to support our assertions?

Truth be told, I *HATE* the way Bethesda and Skyrim handle difficulty.  It is the epitome of laziness and I despise the mechanic that has the PC playing by different rules than the NPCs, which is what happens when the difficulty setting is adjusted from adept.  But does this ever come out?  Hardly ever because I'm too busy debunking your exaggerations that completely misrepresent the game.  Continuously.  Even when you have no evidence to support your claims whereas I do.

If the game's critics want to have a reasonable discussion about the flaws of the game, how about, i don't know, make reasonable critiques about the game that are actually applicable?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 20 décembre 2013 - 06:47 .

[Ozzy]

Just experienced my first random vampire attack. :|

Arrived after it was all done though. I was in Solitude, finishing a few quests and after going to Falk about Potema causing some trouble, I ran outside and found a bunch of kids yelling about dead bodies. Taarie, Miss Radient Raiment, and Una, Miss Lazy Servant, were both dead. Along with a Solitude guard. Welp.

Was planning on smithing for a good while but it looks like levelling up has triggered an event that won't stop unless I do something about. There's bound to be more dead NPCs that I'll find later but I'll just try and complete Dawnguard so as to stop the attacks. I wish these attacks happened in a similar way to the dragon attacks, in that you have to progress far enough in the MQ to trigger it but it is what it is. 

Modifié par AstusOz, 20 décembre 2013 - 11:05 .

[Khayness]

AstusOz wrote...

Just experienced my first random vampire attack. :|

Arrived after it was all done though. I was in Solitude, finishing a few quests and after going to Falk about Potema causing some trouble, I ran outside and found a bunch of kids yelling about dead bodies. Taarie, Miss Radient Raiment, and Una, Miss Lazy Servant, were both dead. Along with a Solitude guard. Welp.

Well, you got lucky, they hit the Riften marketplace for me. With everybody killed, the economy I've built was pretty much dead. Reloaded and binged the questline to avoid such horrible things.

[Ozzy]

Hey, they might have hit Riften in my game too! I haven't been in the town but I'm not looking forward to any potential surprises, lol.

[happy_daiz]

Vampire attacks seem to happen pretty often as a result of fast traveling. To avoid casualties, I usually fast travel somewhere near wherever I'm headed, then walk the rest of the way.

So with that in mind, I thought that if you did fast travel directly to a city, and hung out near the door, you'd be able to fight any random vampires that slipped in, but I've found that it doesn't always work that way.

One time, I went to Windhelm at night, stood there for about 30 seconds, and no vampires came in. I thought all was well, so I went on my merry way. Then I heard shouting - those turds had not only made it into the city, but they were all the way over near Hjerim. I hate it when they slip in like that.

Once you get through DG, the vampire attacks will slow down. If this is your first time, you're in for a treat. Two words: Forgotten Vale.

[LobselVith8]

I wonder if anyone in Solstheim still thinks the Rieklings are an offshoot of the Falmer.

[Giggles_Manically]

Ah the age old "SKYRIM SUCKS BUT I KEEP PLAYING IT ANYWAY" debates.

It says a lot when people rant about a game being awful but still keep playing it.
I have seen people on Steam who have logged 800 hours yet profess their hatred for the game.

Really weird that.
I wonder if that is more a comment on them or the game

[Ozzy]

Yeah, this is my first time through DG. I had one pretty awesome thing spoiled by some tools near the expansion's release concerning certain, well, let's say albino characters. Everything else is pretty much fresh.

So, fast travel triggers attacks? That leaves me feeling very unsettled, lol. I've been pretty much exclusively fast travelling since the start of the questline. Hopefully not many are dead! I can't deal if the vamps got the kind folks in Falkreath.