37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

AstusOz wrote...

I found that place but walked past because I wasn't in the mood for any dungeon crawling, lol. I'll definitely check it out next. That's good to hear! I liked her, even if she was a vampire (hopefully there's a way to rectify that).  

I need to sell more of my loot. Are there any merchants with a lot of gold? So far I've found ones hovering between 500 to a bit above a 1000. 

Smiths tend to have more gold than others, and the merchants on Solstheim appear to have deeper pockets than those on the mainland.

[Ozzy]

Thanks for the heads up.

It's a pretty dodgy move to make joining the College a mandatory thing in terms of having to complete a Dawnguard quest. As is piggybacking off a quest from the vanilla game.

The whole Soul Cairn sequence was pretty cool though. I actually got goosebumps. Dat ambience. 

Modifié par AstusOz, 22 décembre 2013 - 12:28 .

[Elhanan]

AstusOz wrote...

Thanks for the heads up.

It's a pretty dodgy move to make joining the College a mandatory thing in terms of having to complete a Dawnguard quest. As is piggybacking off a quest from the vanilla game.

The whole Soul Cairn sequence was pretty cool though. I actually got goosebumps. Dat ambience. 

I often join the College just for lessons and gear. However, there are options depending upon timing that allow you to enter as the DB and as a visitor seeking info about Elder Scrolls.

[Ozzy]

Just finished!

Loved the whole Vale sequence. So nice. Loved talking to Gelebor too. Hopefully some of his desires come to be true in that there are still surviving pockets of Snow Elves and that the Falmer advance enough to begin reintegrating into society. The whole chapel of Auri-El was just so nice. Pretty spiffy statue too.

The battle at Castle Volkihar was kinda chaotic though. Not really in a good way. It was just a mess on the bridge and then the battle against Harkon was really odd. I suppose a lot of it is down to the limitations of the game (in terms of Dawnguard Vs. Vampires) but after you kill the vampires, everyone goes back to their business with little fuss. It feels abrupt and not epic enough. The speech at the beginning was great but it just didn't carry the momentum throughout the mission.

Also, I don't appreciate being unable to cure Serana because of a dialogue choice I made hours ago.

[blaidfiste]

AstusOz wrote...

Just finished!

Loved the whole Vale sequence. So nice. Loved talking to Gelebor too. Hopefully some of his desires come to be true in that there are still surviving pockets of Snow Elves and that the Falmer advance enough to begin reintegrating into society. The whole chapel of Auri-El was just so nice. Pretty spiffy statue too.

The battle at Castle Volkihar was kinda chaotic though. Not really in a good way. It was just a mess on the bridge and then the battle against Harkon was really odd. I suppose a lot of it is down to the limitations of the game (in terms of Dawnguard Vs. Vampires) but after you kill the vampires, everyone goes back to their business with little fuss. It feels abrupt and not epic enough. The speech at the beginning was great but it just didn't carry the momentum throughout the mission.

Also, I don't appreciate being unable to cure Serana because of a dialogue choice I made hours ago.

Here's your epic DG vs Vampire battle

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

AstusOz wrote...

Thanks for the heads up.

It's a pretty dodgy move to make joining the College a mandatory thing in terms of having to complete a Dawnguard quest. As is piggybacking off a quest from the vanilla game.

The whole Soul Cairn sequence was pretty cool though. I actually got goosebumps. Dat ambience. 

I often join the College just for lessons and gear. However, there are options depending upon timing that allow you to enter as the DB and as a visitor seeking info about Elder Scrolls.

Generally speaking, one could skip heading to the College altogether if you don't want the College quest to show up in your journal, since it's not mandatory to embark on finding the Dragon Scroll. I found it early on since my mage ventured all around the area, including the Chill.

[Joy Divison]

So, am I missing something with this lady here?



On the various Wikis out there, it is written that there is a certain ambiguity to her quest, that is, Saadia's story and that of the Alikir don't match and it's not quite clear who is more truthful.

Since Skyrim is the first of the Elder Scrolls series that I've played enough to be familiar with, I'm not nearly well versed enough in the lore to be sure; however from my understanding, I think Saadia is lying. [relevant part first 10 minutes]

Am I not considering something?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 23 décembre 2013 - 04:20 .

[LobselVith8]

Joy Divison wrote...

On the various Wikis out there, it is written that there is a certain ambiguity to her quest, that is, Saadia's story and that of the Alikir don't match and it's not quite clear who is more truthful.

Since Skyrim is the first of the Elder Scrolls series that I've played enough to be familiar with, I'm not nearly well versed enough in the lore to be sure; however from my understanding, I think Saadia is lying. [relevant part first 10 minutes]

Am I not considering something? 

My Telvanni is currently on that quest, too. The idea that the Thalmor would hire the Alik'r when they have free reign in the Legion aligned Holds, and the fact that she fled a nation that expelled the Thalmor after the Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai, leads me to distrust Saadia; I think she is lying.

[Elhanan]

Gopher muses that both are lying, and I tend to agree. That said, she is a single barmaid, and they are a group large enough to block the roads all over Skyrim. Thus, I aid the pretty damsel, or ignore the quest altogether.

I have tried the opposite side once, only to change my mind once they captured her, as it was fairly transparent they simply wanted her death.

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

Gopher muses that both are lying, and I tend to agree. That said, she is a single barmaid, and they are a group large enough to block the roads all over Skyrim. Thus, I aid the pretty damsel, or ignore the quest altogether.

I have tried the opposite side once, only to change my mind once they captured her, as it was fairly transparent they simply wanted her death.

Kematu gets angry if you kill her; it's likely she will get executed if she's found guilty of treason, however.

[Khayness]

AstusOz wrote...

Thanks for the info but this isn't a character I'll be having join the TG.

Well, then your only choice is to invest in Speech, but by the time you get it to 100 for the best perk (or 70 for the Investor), you'll probably be set for life anyways. Unless you train frequently, the only thing you need gold for are houses.

[Addai]

Joy Divison wrote...

So, am I missing something with this lady here?

*snip*

On the various Wikis out there, it is written that there is a certain ambiguity to her quest, that is, Saadia's story and that of the Alikir don't match and it's not quite clear who is more truthful.

Since Skyrim is the first of the Elder Scrolls series that I've played enough to be familiar with, I'm not nearly well versed enough in the lore to be sure; however from my understanding, I think Saadia is lying. [relevant part first 10 minutes]

Am I not considering something?

There's no ambiguity at all really. Her story is pure BS, and there's nothing overtly off about Kematu's version. Doesn't mean you can't decide not to help him, but the only one who's obviously lying is Saadia. You don't flee a country where people hate the Thalmor so much they kicked both them and the empire out rather than submit to them, to Skyrim where the Thalmor have almost free rein, when you're known for speaking out against the Thalmor. Also the idea that the Alik'r are working for Thalmor is ludicrous on its face. In Hammerfell you don't get hounded out for speaking out agains the Thalmor- you get a medal for it.

[Giggles_Manically]

Yah Saadia is most likely telling a whopper.

I really like a quest that leaves it up to you to decide.

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

There's no ambiguity at all really. Her story is pure BS, and there's nothing overtly off about Kematu's version. Doesn't mean you can't decide not to help him, but the only one who's obviously lying is Saadia. You don't flee a country where people hate the Thalmor so much they kicked both them and the empire out rather than submit to them, to Skyrim where the Thalmor have almost free rein, when you're known for speaking out against the Thalmor. Also the idea that the Alik'r are working for Thalmor is ludicrous on its face. In Hammerfell you don't get hounded out for speaking out agains the Thalmor- you get a medal for it.

While I agree that she is lying about something, the men claiming to be noble Alik'ir:

* Perform something illegal enough to get one tossed into jail.
* Will not divulge info as why they seek her.
* Offer bribes consistently for info.
* The one in jail is willing to sell out his brethren for liberty. Not exctly standard practice for the supposed Alik'ir.
* Seek the aid and shelter of bandits.
* Confront lone women on the roads as suspects.
* Offer more bribes to alter a course of alliances.
* Etc.

Sorry. If she is in the wrong, her continuing servitude as a barmaid at the Inn until real Alik'ir seek her out is fine by me.

Modifié par Elhanan, 23 décembre 2013 - 09:27 .

[Addai]

All of those things are explainable from their situation, for instance one of them in jail is from trying to get into the city, and they're using bandits as hired muscle because they're small in number in a country which is at war. Sure they're confronting redguard women- it's obvious why. The guy in prison can't go home, he's going to be cast out of his warrior band, so he needs to be able to start over in Skyrim.

The fact that they're proud and don't trust you immediately with their life story is natural given their background. There's no reason why Saadia would lie so baldly except to cover up an even darker secret. That's proof enough to me that she ought to go back to Taneth and face the music.

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

All of those things are explainable from their situation, for instance one of them in jail is from trying to get into the city, and they're using bandits as hired muscle because they're small in number in a country which is at war. Sure they're confronting redguard women- it's obvious why. The guy in prison can't go home, he's going to be cast out of his warrior band, so he needs to be able to start over in Skyrim.

The fact that they're proud and don't trust you immediately with their life story is natural given their background. There's no reason why Saadia would lie so baldly except to cover up an even darker secret. That's proof enough to me that she ought to go back to Taneth and face the music.

Except they are not small in numbers; hence their presence all over Skyrim. And her remains end up in the local tombs, so no supposed justice is met.

Their tactics are those of Thalmor agents; not Alik'ir warriors. Save the damsel, and gain a good waitress.

[Yrkoon]

^They don't kill her, so  the final destiny of her "remains" is not a factor here.

Addai67 wrote...

All of those things are explainable from their situation, for instance one of them in jail is from trying to get into the city, and they're using bandits as hired muscle because they're small in number in a country which is at war.to cover up an even darker secret. 

No.  These two are  "defender excuses", and not explanations at all

First off,  it's fairly obvious that the jailed  one did quite a bit more than simply try to enter Whiterun.   The proof of this is that there's 2 other Alikr who  enter the city, then confront its guards, and they don't get jailed, do they.

Second,  Kematu is using bandits as muscle (and in fact,  living  in a bandit den with them) when he doesn't have to.    The rest of his contingent is hanging out in a tavern in Rorikstead without any problems at all  (the other tavern patrons express complete indifference to their presence)


In any case, I don't let lore dictate my decision in this quest (especially lore that doesn't have any real relevance in Skyrim anyway.)  Instead I weigh  the following:

a)  The fact that an entire regiment of Alikr are hunting down a single, barely armed woman
the actual  actions I have witnessed  from these Alikr.  I've seen them harassing  and hurling accusations  at  just about every single Redguard woman they encounter on the roads.  You couple that with what the Jailed Alikr tells you and the picture you get is that these guys are about the biggest sh*t disturbing  bounty hunters ever.
c) Lets face it.  Saadia is hot.  That   is reason enough to take her side, but I'll be fair, and  just judge the situation on A and B.....

So I side with Saadia.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 décembre 2013 - 12:51 .

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

Except they are not small in numbers; hence their presence all over Skyrim. And her remains end up in the local tombs, so no supposed justice is met.

Their tactics are those of Thalmor agents; not Alik'ir warriors. Save the damsel, and gain a good waitress. 

The two Alik'r agents interrogating a woman (who refers to foreigners as a nuisance, so she gains no sympathy from me) is bugged to reoccur continually, even when the respective quest is completed; it's not an example that the Alik'r are that numerous. Given that Kematu is upset if your protagonist kills her, I'm not certain why you think they are merely assassins; he explicitly says he didn't want her dead if you kill her of your own volition.

As for being "like the Thalmor", I don't see how this is the case, since the Alik'r made their intentions known to the guard and are kicked out, while the Thalmor have impunity to arrest people throughout the Empire, and even General Tullius isn't willing to upset that due to the WGC (Missing In Action).

As for "bandits" being a mark against Kematu and his group, the Champion of Boethia had them, too, and he was using the Ebony Mail to rescue people and make a positive difference in the world (if you calm him down via magic and speak to him).

More importantly, since Hammerfell violently opposed the Thalmor incursion, to the point of fighting the Dominion alone while the Empire cut ties with them, why would Saadia flee to an Imperial province under the grip of the Thalmor? Much less one that isn't even in Stormcloak territory?

[Yrkoon]

LobselVith8 wrote...
 why would Saadia flee to an Imperial province under the grip of the Thalmor?

Because  it's close?  She doesn't strike me as the wandering traveler type who's going to meticulously  pick and choose  which  part of the world to flee to according to some personal political bent. 

 Much less one that isn't even in Stormcloak territory?

Well, she went to Whiterun, which is the closest thing to "neutral" that we get in Skyrim.  She could just as easily gone to Solitude, or Markarth.  But she didn't.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 décembre 2013 - 12:40 .

[Lazengan]

Joy Divison wrote...

So, am I missing something with this lady here?



On the various Wikis out there, it is written that there is a certain ambiguity to her quest, that is, Saadia's story and that of the Alikir don't match and it's not quite clear who is more truthful.

Since Skyrim is the first of the Elder Scrolls series that I've played enough to be familiar with, I'm not nearly well versed enough in the lore to be sure; however from my understanding, I think Saadia is lying. [relevant part first 10 minutes]

Am I not considering something?

Saadia is lying because her story does not make sense, if you read in game books, you would know that the redguards are actively fighting the Thalmor in present day. 

one of the actual few things I like about Bethesda is their open ended ambigious choices in quests.

[Joy Divison]

Yrkoon wrote...

^They don't kill her, so  the final destiny of her "remains" is not a factor here.

Addai67 wrote...

All of those things are explainable from their situation, for instance one of them in jail is from trying to get into the city, and they're using bandits as hired muscle because they're small in number in a country which is at war.to cover up an even darker secret. 

No.  These two are  "defender excuses", and not explanations at all

First off,  it's fairly obvious that the jailed  one did quite a bit more than simply try to enter Whiterun.   The proof of this is that there's 2 other Alikr who  enter the city, then confront its guards, and they don't get jailed, do they.

Second,  Kematu is using bandits as muscle (and in fact,  living  in a bandit den with them) when he doesn't have to.    The rest of his contingent is hanging out in a tavern in Rorikstead without any problems at all  (the other tavern patrons express complete indifference to their presence)


In any case, I don't let lore dictate my decision in this quest (especially lore that doesn't have any real relevance in Skyrim anyway.)  Instead I weigh  the following:

a)  The fact that an entire regiment of Alikr are hunting down a single, barely armed woman
the actual  actions I have witnessed  from these Alikr.  I've seen them harassing  and hurling accusations  at  just about every single Redguard woman they encounter on the roads.  You couple that with what the Jailed Alikr tells you and the picture you get is that these guys are about the biggest sh*t disturbing  bounty hunters ever.
c) Lets face it.  Saadia is hot.  That   is reason enough to take her side, but I'll be fair, and  just judge the situation on A and B.....

So I side with Saadia.

So because the Alikir are not nice you sided with a Thalmor lackey?

[Yrkoon]

Lazengan wrote...
 if you read in game books, you would know that the redguards are actively fighting the Thalmor in present day. 

Which makes you wonder why Hammerfell would send  a bunch of Alikr warriors to Skyrim to retrieve one little redguard woman.... and totally ignore Skyrim's wandering Thalmor Patrols, and it's Thalmor embasy, and it's  Northwatch Keep.

[LobselVith8]

Yrkoon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

 why would Saadia flee to an Imperial province under the grip of the Thalmor?

Because  it's close?  She doesn't strike me as the wandering traveler type who's going to meticulously  pick and choose  which  part of the world to flee to according to some personal political bent.

One side of Skyrim is in defiance of the WGC and the Thalmor; the other isn't. Saadia chose the Hold that many seem to think will side with the Empire. If there was any merit to her claim, why not go into the heart of Stormcloak territory to make certain the Thalmor had no reach, rather than a Hold that has refused to ally with the rebellion opposing the Thalmor? You'd think Saadia would want to avoid that since she fled Hammerfell for speaking out against the Thalmor, or so she claims.

Yrkoon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Much less one that isn't even in Stormcloak territory? 

Well, she went to Whiterun, which is the closest thing to "neutral" that we get in Skyrim.  She could just as easily gone to Solitude, or Markarth.  But she didn't. 

You mean she went to a Hold that isn't allied with the Stormcloaks, and has an Imperial and Thalmor presence roaming freely? That doesn't exactly persuade me to buy into her story.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 24 décembre 2013 - 01:34 .

[Evil]

Yrkoon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...
 if you read in game books, you would know that the redguards are actively fighting the Thalmor in present day. 

Which makes you wonder why Hammerfell would send  a bunch of Alikr warriors to Skyrim to retrieve one little redguard woman.... and totally ignore Skyrim's wandering Thalmor Patrols, and it's Thalmor embasy, and it's  Northwatch Keep.

They have obviously read this book.
The Importance of Where.

[Giggles_Manically]

Can you guys believe we are about to hit 1400 pages?

It is shocking to consider that Skyrim has made such a long thread on a COMPETITORS website.