37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Honestly, I try. Food and sleep have become more and more a part of the experience for me. Its more something of a habit I've brought over from Fallout though. I think it's a good mechanic for role players as opposed to just stim-ing or potion-ing your way through a game. Things happen at a much different pace if you force your DB to sleep 4-8 hours a night, much less having to grapple with finding a place to sleep prior to you being awash in gold, or stop and eat at least twice a day.

Preparing food is a great pastime within game yet extremely useful at the same time. It's yet another crafting system within Bethesda games that makes the experience something worth experiencing. As far as diet goes, my Nords tend to go more for balanced meals. The really should drink less mead though (talk about stereotypes). But they are who they are.

Never drink alcohol; part of the RP that I am unable to play. In my 30+ yrs in the service industry, never encountered a single charming drunk. They have been boorish, selfish, obnoxious, etc, but never clever, witty, etc. So me nor my characters imbibe.

But as far as meals, I find myself living a bit vicariously through my characters, as they may enjoy foods I am now supposed to avoid. Sweetrolls anyone?

[Yrkoon]

Edit:  people seem to want to wind down this thoroughly beat-up topic, so here's my final thoughts for now...

So let’s step away from the false dichotomy. There is nothing demonstrated in-game or in lore that might lend credence to Saadia’s story.

Perhaps.    But  for me, that only raises more questions, like:  is it possible that she's just guessing  (and guessing incorrectly) as to the motivation of the Alik'r  that she learns are after her?   

Lets take her claims one at  a time.

1)  When you tell her that the Alik'r are  after her, she claims they're assassins.     BUT We already know   (albeit via metagaming) that they're not assassins, since if you hand her over, they do not kill her.    So that part of her claim IS false.


2)She claims she spoke out against the Thalmor then had to flee.   Ok....  Still waiting for evidence that this ISN'T true.  The best rebuttal we've gotten so far is:  "Well, the Thalmor are long gone from Hammerfell by now.  So there's nothing stopping her from coming out of hiding and going back home, where she's totally free to speak out against the Thalmor."    Well......  nothing except  a  Noble House (which could have any number of reasons to want her  captured.  Doesn't  AT ALL have to be about   any  alleged Thalmor affiliation.)   Of course there's a  counter to that, too.  one could ask:  "well, if it's about something else, then why doesn't she say so?"     And my answer is:  why should she?  She's already got the seduction skills, and the simple  explanation designed to appeal to  the local populace:   "we have a common enemy! (Thalmor!) " She doesn't need  to bring the personal skeletons out of the closet here.


3)  She claims  It's the Alik'r who are the Thalmor Agents.  See # 2.  This is likely a lie.  But at worst, it's a lie that damages her credibility,  instead of flat out  disproving that  she fled Hammerfell  because she spoke out against the Thalmor.  And it most certainly does NOT instantly mean that the Alik'r  are telling the truth.

You know, it would have made things much  easier if  her ACCUSERS had provided some real evidence  (like, you know,  old correspondence letters between her and the Dominion, or something along those lines).  But they came to skyrim without any, and then, to make matters worse,  they  failed to build any sort of trust with their actions

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 décembre 2013 - 11:58 .

[Get Magna Carter]

I would say that the Alk'r know they are looking for a woman named Iman and what she looked like 25 years ago (approx) but do not know what her current alias is or how her appearance may have changed.

if the betrayal happened it would have probably been in AD 172 when the Thalmor took control of the Southern coastline of Hammerfell

[Get Magna Carter]

Elhanan wrote...

Which leads me to a question: Which of you besides myself simply RP sleeping and eating without some mod or healing mechanic (eg; fondue) involved?

In Morrowind, I was sleeping frequently, in beds anywhere (usually after killing the owner and taking over the place and it's storage space...) or in the wilderness.
I once slept on a small island and was woken by the sound of an assassin swimming around trying to find a way onto the island...
I started off playing Oblivion the same way and was soon irritated after adopting my Morrowind policy of moving into the homes of people I had killed it didn't seem to like the ideas of me using their beds.
Ultimately, in Skyrim, I believe I ended up rarely using beds (especially after joining the Companions) except to trigger quests  (Dark Brotherhood) which seems to indicate somethng wrong with the game design...

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...
But as far as meals, I find myself living a bit vicariously through my characters, as they may enjoy foods I am now supposed to avoid. Sweetrolls anyone?

Don't forget Mammoth Cheese!

Mmm... that  appetizing sound  when you scoop up a bowl of it from a giant camp.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 décembre 2013 - 12:11 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Edit:  people seem to want to wind down this thoroughly beat-up topic, so here's my final thoughts for now...

So let’s step away from the false dichotomy. There is nothing demonstrated in-game or in lore that might lend credence to Saadia’s story.

Perhaps.    But  for me, that only raises more questions, like:  is it possible that she's just guessing  (and guessing incorrectly) as to the motivation of the Alik'r  that she learns are after her?   

Lets take her claims one at  a time.

1)  When you tell her that the Alik'r are  after her, she claims they're assassins.     BUT We already know   (albeit via metagaming) that they're not assassins, since if you hand her over, they do not kill her.    So that part of her claim IS false.

2)She claims she spoke out against the Thalmor then had to flee.   Ok....  Still waiting for evidence that this ISN'T true.  The best rebuttal we've gotten so far is:  "Well, the Thalmor are long gone from Hammerfell by now.  So there's nothing stopping her from coming out of hiding and going back home, where she's totally free to speak out against the Thalmor."    Well......  nothing except  a  Noble House (which could have any number of reasons to want her  captured.  Doesn't  AT ALL have to be about   any  alleged Thalmor affiliation.)   Of course there's a  counter to that, too.  one could ask:  "well, if it's about something else, then why doesn't she say so?"     And my answer is:  why should she?  She's already got the seduction skills, and the simple  explanation designed to appeal to  the local populace:   "we have a common enemy! (Thalmor!) " She doesn't need  to bring the personal skeletons out of the closet here.

3)  She claims  It's the Alik'r who are the Thalmor Agents.  See # 2.  This is likely a lie.  But at worst, it's a lie that damages her credibility,  instead of flat out  disproving that  she fled Hammerfell  because she spoke out against the Thalmor.  And it most certainly does NOT instantly mean that the Alik'r  are telling the truth.

You know, it would have made things much  easier if  her ACCUSERS had provided some real evidence  (like, you know,  old correspondence letters between her and the Dominion, or something along those lines).  But they came to skyrim without any, and then, to make matters worse,  they  failed to build any sort of trust with their actions

1 - Have been informed that once she is turned over, her remains are stored in the local tombs; unconfirmed since I have not done so. They may not kill her in front of witnesses, but it seems they do.

3 - If these mercs are not Alik'r, they could indeed be assassins hired by the Thalmor; maybe even corrupted Alik'r.

Save the Damsel....

[Addai]

The tomb thing is a game cleanup script, I'm sure. Does Ulfric's body stay rotting in the throne room of the Palace of Kings in reality? The game has some quirks on how it deals with "dead" NPCs, i.e. not needed for the game anymore. It's not conclusive of anything.

She looks a lot like Delphine age-wise, but with more cleavage. And that probably is the crux of the matter here.

[Elhanan]

Addai67 wrote...

The tomb thing is a game cleanup script, I'm sure. Does Ulfric's body stay rotting in the throne room of the Palace of Kings in reality? The game has some quirks on how it deals with "dead" NPCs, i.e. not needed for the game anymore. It's not conclusive of anything.

She looks a lot like Delphine age-wise, but with more cleavage. And that probably is the crux of the matter here.

Some say quirk; some say evidence. And I do not recall anyone referring to Saadia as old, though it does happen with Delphine; not even other women who would probably not care about said cleavage.

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

1 - Have been informed that once she is turned over, her remains are stored in the local tombs; unconfirmed since I have not done so. They may not kill her in front of witnesses, but it seems they do.

Given that Kematu is upset if the Dragonborn kills her, I don't agree; he makes it clear he wants to bring her back alive, and he says that your protagonist has "ruined everything" if he kills her.

Elhanan wrote...

3 - If these mercs are not Alik'r, they could indeed be assassins hired by the Thalmor; maybe even corrupted Alik'r.

Save the Damsel.... 

"Assassins" who don't want their target to be killed, but who want to bring her back alive...

[Yrkoon]

Addai67 wrote...

She looks a lot like Delphine age-wise, but with more cleavage. And that probably is the crux of the matter here.

LOL

Yep.    If you boil  everything down to the basics,  you'll find that it's not a  tough decision at all.     The devs gave the Alik'r  curved swords.  But they gave Saadia all the curves.

I know who I'm picking.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:55 .

[Joy Divison]

With the whole age thing ... is it TES or is it an RPG staple that all non-wizards age, shall we say, very gracefully?

The folks who fought/were around in the Great War: Ulfric, Rikke, Delphine, Balgruuf, etc. ... that's over thirty years ago. I'm in my 30s now and in pretty good shape and I pulled muscles I did not know I even had when I played in a charity football tournament a few months ago.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 28 décembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[Elhanan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Given that Kematu is upset if the Dragonborn kills her, I don't agree; he makes it clear he wants to bring her back alive, and he says that your protagonist has "ruined everything" if he kills her.

"Assassins" who don't want their target to be killed, but who want to bring her back alive...

This is based on a public display; not necessarily the truth. These men could still be pretenders and nothing more. And even if it were the truth, it is unclear at what was actually ruined; could have been many things (eg; extortion, torture, info, etc).

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Given that Kematu is upset if the Dragonborn kills her, I don't agree; he makes it clear he wants to bring her back alive, and he says that your protagonist has "ruined everything" if he kills her.

"Assassins" who don't want their target to be killed, but who want to bring her back alive...

This is based on a public display; not necessarily the truth. These men could still be pretenders and nothing more. And even if it were the truth, it is unclear at what was actually ruined; could have been many things (eg; extortion, torture, info, etc).

It could have ruined a public trial for a traitor of Hammerfell, for example. We have to go with the information we have, and make the best call we can make, in the perspective of the character we created. I suppose for some protagonists, the idea of letting someone who could have potentially let countless people die at the hands of the Thalmor (like in the Night of Green Fire) by betraying Hammerfell to the Dominion deserves a worse fate than working in a tavern in Whiterun.

[Yrkoon]

LobselVith8 wrote...
It could have ruined a public trial for a traitor of Hammerfell, for example. We have to go with the information we have, and make the best call we can make, in the perspective of the character we created. I suppose for some protagonists, the idea of letting someone who could have potentially let countless people die at the hands of the Thalmor (like in the Night of Green Fire) by betraying Hammerfell to the Dominion deserves a worse fate than working in a tavern in Whiterun.

I don't understand your wording here.  There's a huge difference between actually committing a betrayal that actually leads to countless people dying, vs.   committing a betrayal that could have potentially lead  to countless people dying  but didn't.

If it's the former then yes,  that merits a man hunt 25 years later, followed by a public trial and public execution.

But if it's the latter, then No.  it really doesn't.   Stripping the perpetrator of their noble status and forcing them  into exile   is punishment enough.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 décembre 2013 - 01:49 .

[Get Magna Carter]

the wiki says "If the Dragonborn kills Saadia during this quest, her burial urn will appear in Whiterun Catacombs," and makes no reference to it happening after her being captured.
I have not checked for her urn under any circumstances

[LobselVith8]

Yrkoon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It could have ruined a public trial for a traitor of Hammerfell, for example. We have to go with the information we have, and make the best call we can make, in the perspective of the character we created. I suppose for some protagonists, the idea of letting someone who could have potentially let countless people die at the hands of the Thalmor (like in the Night of Green Fire) by betraying Hammerfell to the Dominion deserves a worse fate than working in a tavern in Whiterun.

I don't understand your wording here.  There's a huge difference between actually committing a betrayal that actuallyleads to countless people dying, vs.   committing a betrayal that could have potentially lead  to countless people dying but didn't.

If it's the former then yes,  that merits a man hunt 25 years later, followed by a public trial and public execution.

But if it's the latter, then No.  it really doesn't.   Stripping the perpetrator of their noble status and forcing them  into exile   is punishment enough.

Considering Kematu said that Taneth fell to the Dominion as a result of her betrayal, I don't see how you're confused. If she did betray Hammerfell, then it's more than likely innocent people died at the hands of the Thalmor, since there is a precedent for that (the Imperial City during the Great War, the refugees who were slaughtered by the Thalmor during the Night of Green Fire, ect.).

[happy_daiz]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

the wiki says "If the Dragonborn kills Saadia during this quest, her burial urn will appear in Whiterun Catacombs," and makes no reference to it happening after her being captured.
I have not checked for her urn under any circumstances

Wha...? Do people actually just kill her? Now that just seems uncalled for. Although I'll admit, that was my first instinct in my first playthrough. I'm glad I had some restraint.

She should win a trophy for being one of the most controversial NPCs. 

[Joy Divison]

happy_daiz wrote...

Get Magna Carter wrote...

the wiki says "If the Dragonborn kills Saadia during this quest, her burial urn will appear in Whiterun Catacombs," and makes no reference to it happening after her being captured.
I have not checked for her urn under any circumstances

Wha...? Do people actually just kill her? Now that just seems uncalled for. Although I'll admit, that was my first instinct in my first playthrough. I'm glad I had some restraint.

She should win a trophy for being one of the most controversial NPCs. 

Well, I'm guessing Narfi and Beitild don't exactly deserve their fates either...

I thought of you when I came across this.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:12 .

[happy_daiz]

Yet somehow, I find it in my DB's heart to kill them, anyway. Dang it, Three Dog.

OMG, that vid just filled my heart with joy. I might find myself playing Skyrim today. 

The big decision will be choosing which character to play. I just love my male Khajiit to no end, but my new Dunmer male is stuck at level 10. Because of said Khajiit. I might be ruined on everything else, tbh.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 28 décembre 2013 - 03:22 .

[Yrkoon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Kematu said that Taneth fell to the Dominion as a result of her betrayal,

But, he doesn't say  that Taneth fell.    He says that if not for her betrayal, Taneth would have held its own during the war.

That sounds like an opinion to me, instead of facts on the ground.  Like there was a specific battle for a city or village,  two sides fought, one side lost, and now the losing side is  coming up with reasons to explain why they had a sh**ty performance.

Does Taneth still exist?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 décembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[RainyDayLover]

A question for ya'll: what's your favorite book in Skyrim (or rather, in the TES series) ?

It's kinda sad that the books are better written than the in-game quests (for the most part). I think it also has to do with the fact that the past events (and events occurring in-between games) being more interesting than the stuff happening in the game.

[LobselVith8]

Yrkoon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Kematu said that Taneth fell to the Dominion as a result of her betrayal,

But, he doesn't say  that Taneth fell.    He says that if not for her betrayal, Taneth would have held its own during the war.

That sounds like an opinion to me, instead of facts on the ground.  Like there was a specific battle for a city or village,  two sides fought, one side lost, and now the losing side is  coming up with reasons to explain why they had a sh**ty performance.

Does Taneth still exist?

If Taneth lost to the Dominion as a consequence of Saadia's betrayal of Hammerfell, innocent lives would have been lost to the Thalmor, so I'm still not seeing your confusion here. You're welcome to think whatever you want about Saadia, but delivering a traitor who led to the deaths of innocents as a result of her treachery is something that warrants more than freedom in Whiterun - assuming the protagonist trusts Kematu over Saadia, and she gives my Dragonborn no reason to trust her.

[The Hierophant]

RainyDayLover wrote...

A question for ya'll: what's your favorite book in Skyrim (or rather, in the TES series) ?

It's not one book but rather all the volumes of Mystery of Talara.

[The Hierophant]

Modifié par The Hierophant, 28 décembre 2013 - 06:03 .

[Yrkoon]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Kematu said that Taneth fell to the Dominion as a result of her betrayal,

But, he doesn't say  that Taneth fell.    He says that if not for her betrayal, Taneth would have held its own during the war.

That sounds like an opinion to me, instead of facts on the ground.  Like there was a specific battle for a city or village,  two sides fought, one side lost, and now the losing side is  coming up with reasons to explain why they had a sh**ty performance.

Does Taneth still exist?

If Taneth lost to the Dominion as a consequence of Saadia's betrayal of Hammerfell, innocent lives would have been lost to the Thalmor,

Obviously.   Most wars see people dying  in them.

But innocents  in Taneth would have died  against the Thalmor  even if Saadia never existed and a betrayal never occurred.  So the question is: IS Saadia's betrayal  THE reason why Taneth didn't "hold its own"?    

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 décembre 2013 - 06:05 .