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[Abraham_uk]

A long time ago on this very thread, I joined a discussion about the Forsworn.

I defended the Forsworn and, well I was the only one saying that the Forsworn were neither good nor evil.

Other people wanted to portray them as retched savages beyond redemption. Kidnappers and dark ritualists, which I disagreed with.

 

I want to make one thing very clear. I don't like the Forsworn. I find them to be too hostile and unapproachable.

So many times have I walked through the reach minding my own business only to be shot down by the Forsworn.

 

However, this position doesn't prevent me from being their apologist.

 

They seem like people trying to defend a land that is rightfully theirs.

I think killing anyone who enters their land is a bit drastic, but then again who am I to judge other cultures?

The whole giving hearts to Hagravens is strange but then again who am I to judge other cultures?

Morality is very subjective. Enforcing one's morality on other cultures is flat out wrong. If the Forsworn do not wish anyone to enter their land, best let them be. I don't think isolation is a beneficial idea, but I come from a culture where capital rules supreme. I come from a very narrow mindset. Perhaps I should be open to more mindsets.

The Forsworn are not good or evil. Just alien.

In short. Live and let live. If a person doesn't want you to enter their land, respect their wishes and do not be surprised if they are hostile towards you.

 

 

Anyway, here is a video that supports my points quite nicely.

 

[Derpy]

In my opinion, Forsworn are like the Falmer.

 

They are not "true" Bretons but more of a corrupted version like Falmer are evil, mutated Snow Elves. I just opt to kill all of the Forsworn because they are annoying. I understand the racist Nords being typical Nords took their land but to go completely savage and give into Hagravens is going too far.

[Abraham_uk]

In my opinion, Forsworn are like the Falmer.

 

They are not "true" Bretons but more of a corrupted version like Falmer are evil, mutated Snow Elves. I just opt to kill all of the Forsworn because they are annoying. I understand the racist Nords being typical Nords took their land but to go completely savage and give into Hagravens is going too far.

 

I only killed them out of self defense.

Which is quite often, since I did a lot of quests that often involve entering that area.

 

 

Going savage is too far. But then I am a bit too narrow minded to see things from their point of view.

Suffice to say, unless I enter the shoes of the Forsworn, I will never truly understand them.

 

 

Culture is after all, culture. By that, I mean a very complicated set of beliefs, subjective values, personalities and systems.

Culture can be critiqued, but must be done so in a nuanced manner without simplistic terms such as "good" and "evil" thrown into the equation.

 

 

I think the Forsworn have legitimate grievances.

They just aren't going to make many friends by killing anyone who enters the Reach.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is an example of my mindset.

 

Let's say there is a culture that is racist and misogynistic. I merely state that I don't like those aspects of said culture.

However I will still try to understand their culture (even if their culture is beyond my comprehension and completely unrelatable).

I will even look for aspects of said culture that I like.

I would never describe any culture anywhere in the real world or any fictional worlds as "evil" or "good". For me it is simply enough to be appalled by certain aspects of said culture. 

[Derpy]

I only killed them out of self defense.

Which is quite often, since I did a lot of quests that often involve entering that area.

 

 

Going savage is too far. But then I am a bit too narrow minded to see things from their point of view.

Suffice to say, unless I enter the shoes of the Forsworn, I will never truly understand them.

 

 

Culture is after all, culture. By that, I mean a very complicated set of beliefs, subjective values, personalities and systems.

Can be critiqued, but must be done so in a nuanced manner without simplistic terms such as "good" and "evil" thrown into the equation.

 

 

I think the Forsworn have legitimate grievances.

They just aren't going to make many friends by entering anyone who enters the Reach.

I mean I had felt sympathy for them when I first learned about what happened to them and how the typical Nords just kicked them out.

 

Then after seeing what they did I changed my opinion and didn't feel the same sympathy for them. This doesn't change my opinion on Nords at all as they are just a bunch of racist white trash seeing how they treat everybody but themselves. That Nord that runs around Windhelm picking on the Dark Elves, I usually kill him. I don't like siding with Ulfrig because he is a douche bag. In fact I only do the civil war so the main quests are easier as I hate both sides. 

 

The point is the Forsworn chose the wrong path and thus I will kill every last one. I won't let them raid helpless people on my watch.

[Giggles_Manically]

Ah yes the Forsworn.

The supposed "Madman of the Reach" who need more clothes.

We have dismissed that claim.

[Derpy]

Ah yes the Forsworn.

The supposed "Madman of the Reach" who need more clothes.

We have dismissed that claim.

Speaking of more clothes,

 

If you ever get UNP and don't get a replacer for the vanilla armor, the Forsworn armor kinda gets weird on females in a "Uhh.. what is that?" kinda way. I'd tell you guys what happens but Idk how without sounding like a pervert.

[Abraham_uk]

I mean I had felt sympathy for them when I first learned about what happened to them and how the typical Nords just kicked them out.

 

Then after seeing what they did I changed my opinion and didn't feel the same sympathy for them. This doesn't change my opinion on Nords at all as they are just a bunch of racist white trash seeing how they treat everybody but themselves. That Nord that runs around Windhelm picking on the Dark Elves, I usually kill him. I don't like siding with Ulfrig because he is a douche bag. In fact I only do the civil war so the main quests are easier as I hate both sides. 

 

The point is the Forsworn chose the wrong path and thus I will kill every last one. I won't let them raid helpless people on my watch.

 

I think the Forsworn need to signpost their territory better.

They are literate people.

 

Surely a sign saying "Do not enter. Those who do enter The Reach will be killed on sight." would suffice.

This would provide much better warning for travellers.

Then those travellers won't be so helpless. They'll know to avoid that area at all cost.

 

Stuff like that would be appreciated.

Sure that would not gain them any friends, but at least that sign would save lives.

Besides, what is more precious than a person's life?

[Derpy]

I think the Forsworn need to signpost their territory better.

They are literate people.

 

Surely a sign saying "Do not enter. Those who do enter The Reach will be killed on sight."

This would provide much better warning for travellers.

Then those travellers won't be so helpless. They'll know to avoid that area at all cost.

 

Stuff like that would be appreciated.

Sure that would not gain them any friends, but at least that sign would save lives.

Besides, what is more precious than a person's life?

Well, usually people that travel have things that I am sure a Forsworn scavenger could use...

[Derpy]

If anyone wants to know what happens to the Forsworn female's armor, I could probably PM you a picture of it. Really its not bad but some might find it offending.

[Abraham_uk]

Well, usually people that travel have things that I am sure a Forsworn scavenger could use...

 

Like less skimpy clothing perhaps?

 

 

 

Fair point.

 

Again this is cultural differences.

I come from a place where "Restricted Areas" are clearly signposted.

I know to expect arrest (and extreme cases "death") for entering them.

 

The Reach is a massive "restricted area".

So it is the duty of the land owners to signpost this, given that the consequences of entering is death.

 

That said, this is just my cultural values speaking here.

[Derpy]

Like less skimpy clothing perhaps?

 

 

 

Fair point.

 

Again this is cultural differences.

I come from a place where "Restricted Areas" are clearly signposted.

I know to expect arrest (and extreme cases "death") for entering them.

 

The Reach is a massive "restricted area".

So it is the duty of the land owners to signpost this, given that the consequences of entering is death.

 

That said, this is just my cultural values speaking here.

Ehh lets just say "Their two sandbags kinda hang out a little too far."

[Abraham_uk]

Ehh lets just say "Their two sandbags kinda hang out a little too far."

I don't understand.

[Derpy]

I don't understand.

I'll just PM you what happens.

[Endurium]

To me, the Forsworn are Skyrim's version of Native Americans, who happen to be hostile to everyone not of their culture rather than merely being contentious toward the overpowering/ruling authorities about their lot in life. I knew it wouldn't work, but I once donned a complete Forsworn outfit just to pretend being one of them, ala Fallout:NV, but of course they shot me on sight. Oh well, would have been fun to infiltrate them and make a friend or three, which would have meant more if siding with Madanach.

[Abraham_uk]

To me, the Forsworn are Skyrim's version of Native Americans, who happen to be hostile to everyone not of their culture rather than merely being contentious toward the overpowering/ruling authorities about their lot in life. I knew it wouldn't work, but I once donned a complete Forsworn outfit just to pretend being one of them, ala Fallout:NV, but of course they shot me on sight. Oh well, would have been fun to infiltrate them and make a friend or three, which would have meant more if siding with Madanach.

 

Skyrim is interesting.

The game shows you a likable faction/group/race, then shows some ugly flaws.

 

Forsworn were wronged, betrayed and invaded. They are however hostile to all outsiders.

The Stormcloaks are fighting for their freedom. They however have a strong racist element.

The Dark Elves (Dunmer) are treated badly by everyone and their homeland was destroyed by a volcano. However, they did enslave the Argonians.

The Imperials openly embrace all cultures. They embrace all cultures at the cost of invading their lands.

 

The Thalmor are... portrayed as evil. Shame. Whilst the other groups have nuance, the Thalmor are just evil.

Can we see some shades of grey for this bunch?

[Derpy]

The only reason I hate the Empire is that they sided with the Thalmor.

 

Thalmor are the biggest bastards in the whole game and every time I have a play through, I kill every last one of them including Elenwen who has an appearance in ESO as well.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

i hate the forsworn. i always kill them on sight. i hate the thalmor even more though. since my female nord sided with the stormcloaks in the war i don't run into thalmor agents anymore which kind of sucks because i just loved killing them. when they were still around i would kill them,strip them of all armor and weapons, put them in a pile on the road and then set them on fire. that will teach them.

[Joy Divison]

What exactly makes The Reach Forsworn land?  And any xenophobic culture dedicated to a fanatical belief that those not of their own must be purged is a culture I will judge without any guilty pangs from my conscience.

[Derpy]

i hate the forsworn. i always kill them on sight. i hate the thalmor even more though. since my female nord sided with the stormcloaks in the war i don't run into thalmor agents anymore which kind of sucks because i just loved killing them. when they were still around i would kill them,strip them of all armor and weapons, put them in a pile on the road and then set them on fire. that will teach them.

Yes. Burn the heathens but wait...

 

You are a Nord so that means I must burn you at the stake for persecuting me for no reason.

[Elhanan]

There should be a mod that allows the Falmer and Forsworn to utilize better arrows; dislike the lesser versions they seem to make. Perhaps the poisons could use some improvement, too.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I remember doing a mission in my playthrough, where I worked with some Forsworn, and was able to mollify their position regarding outsiders somewhat. I think they were in a stone prison near Markarth, or something like that. It was a couple of years ago, and I've forgotten the details. I do remember that it didn't remove hostile Forsworn from the game, and you would still run in to them, but there was a faction of them that you could talk to and get along with. I think they "disappear" once the questline is over (maybe someone can refresh my memory?) I remember wishing that there had been a way to negotiate something a little more satisfying out of that questline. It would have been nice to maybe bridge the differences of at least one major cultural conflict in the game without having to kill almost everyone on one of the sides.

 

Not a significant complaint, lest anyone misunderstand. I've always liked that Elder Scrolls games aren't married to an alignment system, and factions can be both sympathetic and villainous at the same time.

[Derpy]

I remember doing a mission in my playthrough, where I worked with some Forsworn, and was able to mollify their position regarding outsiders somewhat. I think they were in a stone prison near Markarth, or something like that. It was a couple of years ago, and I've forgotten the details. I do remember that it didn't remove hostile Forsworn from the game, and you would still run in to them, but there was a faction of them that you could talk to and get along with. I think they "disappear" once the questline is over (maybe someone can refresh my memory?) I remember wishing that there had been a way to negotiate something a little more satisfying out of that questline. It would have been nice to maybe bridge the differences of at least one major cultural conflict in the game without having to kill almost everyone on one of the sides.

 

Not a significant complaint, lest anyone misunderstand. I've always liked that Elder Scrolls games aren't married to an alignment system, and factions can be both sympathetic and villainous at the same time.

After you finish the quest and you DON'T kill the Forsworn, they return to a camp near the place were you find Sorine Jorad. I can't remember the name of the camp but its like Draunch Redbout or something like that.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

After you finish the quest and you DON'T kill the Forsworn, they return to a camp near the place were you find Sorine Jorad. I can't remember the name of the camp but its like Draunch Redbout or something like that.

 

Ah, thanks.

 

I'm not sure if I ever found them after I completed the civil war questline.

[Reorte]

I've no qualms about killing any Foresworn who starts fighting me, but if they didn't I'd walk right past them. Whatever wrongs they may have been on the receiving end of they're still a bunch of jerks though, and since they go on the rampage if you let them escape Cidnah Mine I tend to side against them (not that Markarth has the most pleasant population).

 

The Thalmor are the only ones I'll happily murder (pity there isn't a bit more depth to most of them). I usually avoid bothering with the Civil War quest.

[Reorte]

Have you actually used any of the latest versions of Origin? It does its job, plain and simple. I was reluctant to install it at first due to all that debacle about privacy or whatever when it first launched.

It doesn't do its job because it doesn't have a job to do.