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[Gorthaur the Cruel]

It would be interesting to learn a bit more about the Nedes. I'd always thought Nede = Atmoran but perhaps there's more to it. I do find it a bit odd that some consider the Out-of-Atmora thing to be propaganda. What reason would Imperials have to lie about that exactly?

I like the Elder Scrolls lore because so much of it is drowned with bias and different author's superiority complexes, you never know what to believe. Did the Nords out of Atmora move south and evolve into Nedes? Perhaps they did, but that sounds a little fishy to me. I think it's more likely that Tamriel was already inhabited by Nedes by the time the 500 companions arrived.

 

It's a big point of pride to be related to the Atmorans that sailed with Ysgramar, which is probably why the Imperials would want to lie about their heritage. They want the world to see their empire as the successor of the Nordic Empire founded by Ysgramar's heirs, which is easier to do if the world thinks you're related to a bunch of romanticized Nordic conquerors.

[mybudgee]

I like the Elder Scrolls lore because so much of it is drowned with bias and different author's superiority complexes, you never know what to believe. 

 

This makes it seem that much more believable IMHO

[Sigma Tauri]

It would be interesting to learn a bit more about the Nedes. I'd always thought Nede = Atmoran but perhaps there's more to it. I do find it a bit odd that some consider the Out-of-Atmora thing to be propaganda. What reason would Imperials have to lie about that exactly?

 

Cultural solidarity. The official Imperial position isn't a lie, but it's a convenient position to justify Nordic support of Cyrodiil. By stating that the Nedes are merely an off-shoot of the Nords, the Bretons and Imperials accept a common myth with the Nords against the Aldmer. If the Empire accepted that the Nedes are not Atmorans, the implications of such would cause the Nords to reject the legitimacy of Imperial rule early in the Septim Empire. One implication would be that the Nedes lived peacefully with the elves for a long time, and that only the Nords violently rejected any accommodation with the elves. It would also legitimize the notion that the men of Nibenay and High Rock are merely client peoples to the elves. Remember, Nordic culture is built on anti-Aldmer mythology, and the Eight Divines are only a tolerable compromise that, at first, are hesitant to accept.

 

I'm also going to state that the Out-of-Atmora theory is the "canonical" :shudder: position of Bethsoft and Zenimax. In other words, it's the one that you're going to see more often. Furthermore, the alternate theory has part an out-of-game source. While that may stink of Kirkbride, it's actually Kurt Kuhlmann's idea. Kirkbride, I think, may have quickly adopted Kuhlmann's idea when Kuhlmann pitched it in the in-game book "Frontier, Conquest, and Accommodation."

[Abraham_uk]

How come Imperials and Nords look similar?

 

Is that intentional or is it just game design?

[Abraham_uk]

Are the races of "man" ever referred to as human?

Is it ever outright stated in "lore" or in the games that these races are human?

 

Or are we assuming this because they look a lot like humans and don't have pointy ears?

 

I'd be interested to see a citation or a video where the word "human" is used by NPC's.

 

 

 

In our world there was a "could have been" human like race known as the Neanderthals.

They look a lot like us but they were of a different species.

[mybudgee]

Someone does indeed say human, I believe. I know they say "Earth" once or twice...

[Sigma Tauri]

Are the races of "man" ever referred to as human?

Is it ever outright stated in "lore" or in the games that these races are human?

 

All you have to do is type "human" in the UESP search engine. Several books refer to these races as "human."

 

 I'm sorry. I don't feel like quoting every book in TES lore that called the mannish races "human."

 

 

[Sigma Tauri]

Well they are both humans for one.

 

But Imperials do have Nordic blood in them, and if the Nedes were Atmorans that would also contribute to the resemblance. Nords are more "pure" though while Imperials are highly mixed, what with Cyrodiil being a fairly multicultural society. In fact I think I've read somewhere that at one point some Akaviri and Imperials intermarried. I don't know if they were biologically similar enough to create offspring though.

 

By contrast in Skyrim everything east of Haafingar and the Reach is pretty much just Nords, Nords, and more Nords.

 

According to the lore, the Colovians of Western Cyrodiil are more Nordic. The Nibenese are the Cyro-Nords that adopted a great deal of high elven culture. The in-game book, the Adabal-A, implies that the Cyrodiils are actually an amalgamation of various mannish tribes that were native to the Nibenean Heartland. The Nedes are merely just one among several tribes.

[Sigma Tauri]

I thought Nede was basically an umbrella term for all of those tribes?

 

It can be. But, it can also be a name of a tribe. Depends on context. 

[Abraham_uk]

All you have to do is type "human" in the UESP search engine. Several books refer to these races as "human."

 

 I'm sorry. I don't feel like quoting every book in TES lore that called the mannish races "human."

 

Checked it out.

There are alchemy ingredients called "human flesh" and "human heart".

[Abraham_uk]

Human Flesh is actually one of the best ingredients for poisons. You can make a sick Paralyze + Damage Health + DOT poison that can drop a Bandit Chief like a rock if your Archery skill and bow are also pretty good. The combo is Human Flesh, Imp Stool, and Slaughterfish Eggs/Scales IIRC. I think there other substitutes for the third ingredient but I can't remember right now.

 

Give it a try though. It's definitely worth making and having a few in your inventory.

 

EDIT: I looked it up and the other substitutes for the Eggs/Scales are Orange Dartwings, Mora Tapinella, and Scathecraw.

 

I'll think I'll save it for a Bosmer play through.

[Abraham_uk]

You don't have to be a cannibal to get Human Flesh if that's what you're thinking. You can get it from dead werewolves, at the Shrine of Namira, in Aventus Aretino's house, Castle Volkihar, and in some Falmer settlements. It's just, uh... laying around.

I was referring to the lore, since I was planning a cannibal playthrough, with ring of Namira and a lot of depraved actions.

Perhaps become both vampire and werewolf and engage in archery, alchemy and hunting.

[Wires_From_The_Wall]

I never could bring myself to become a cannibal. I just find the idea really repulsive and have only successfully completed Taste of Death once. So I usually just kill everyone in the shrine and let the priest go.

 

Pretty sure you only need one meal to get the business card!

[Ozzy]

I never could bring myself to become a cannibal. I just find the idea really repulsive and have only successfully completed Taste of Death once. So I usually just kill everyone in the shrine and let the priest go.

 

Same. It was just all too squicky for me. 

[Elhanan]

Never went to the Markarth buffet myself; actually am missing that Daedric achievement, and six or seven others.

[Dermain]

I never could bring myself to become a cannibal. I just find the idea really repulsive and have only successfully completed Taste of Death once. So I usually just kill everyone in the shrine and let the priest go.

Skyrim is the first game where I find it hard to fully complete a number of the Daedric quests.

 

I have never completed Vaermina's quest as I felt like too much of an ******* in killing the Dunmer. However, I did complete Mehrunes Dagon's quest because Mehrunes' razor is a good dagger, and it has a pretty nifty sheath. I also haven't finished Boethiah's quest, but that's mostly because I'm rarely able to continue playing a character past level 25 for some odd reason.

 

Namira's quest is one that I will NEVER complete even on a Bosmer or enthusiastic werewolf. I despise cannibals with a passion (for some reason it's tied to Jade Empire's cannibals, as well as a short horror story I read around the same time involving cannibals), and murder them in every game where they appear (and it's an option). I even murdered the "vampires" in Fallout 3.I even have issues on feeding on humanoid corpses as a werwolf. 

 

It doesn't help that Skyrim's cannibals are vile characters. The shopkeeper mentions that she was going to end up killing and eating her assisstant while blaming his death on the Forsworn. Keep in mind that she claims that her husband died to a Forsworn ambush AND had "great taste". From this we can conclude that she murdered and ate her husband.

 

The meat merchant is equally vile because he sells human meat to unknowing customers. The dog trainer is the only one that almost gets a pass because he only feeds the meat to guard dogs, but that can make the dogs dangerous even to their owners. Eola, besides wanting to kill a harmless priest of Arkay, was desperate enough to start eating the bodies of the dead. While I suppose one could make the argument that eating (long) dead bodies is better than killing people and eating them, it's still disgusting.

 

While I would prefer to just kill Eola the first time she talks to you, I prefer to go all the way to the ritual to purge Markarth of cannibals. 

[Dutchess]

I even have issues on feeding on humanoid corpses as a werwolf. 

 

 

So you're playing vegetarian werewolves only?