37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Fenris_13]

Nashiktal wrote...

Nigawatts wrote...

Elder Scrolls > Dragon Age 2 in almost everyway possible. Especially in story.

I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. ...Well actually I won't but it sounds nice
right?

Seriously though I disagree. If only because I hate when people compare games that have nothing in common save for the old sword and sorcery bit.

Yeah, this. It's very childish.

[Chewin]

jlb524 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

hugafella wrote...
Mass effect and Dragon Age is the only RPG games I have played

Lets be a little more honest here.

You're a registered game owner of  Mass Effect 2,   Dragon age 2,  Dragon Age Origins, Dragon Age: Awakening, Dragon Age ultimate edition (which comes with  Lelianna's Song, Return to Ostagar, Golems of Amgarrak, Witch Hunt and Darkspawn Chronicles)

That's quite a bit of RPG there.  And Dragon age 2 is also  littered with a bajillion sidequests  that have very little in the way of story to them  (many have absolutely no story to them whatsoever)  did you get bored  one week in with DA2 as well?

I think the difference between the two styles of story-telling in these games (the BW method vs. Bethesda's) is that BW always gives you a crew of characters you can travel around with and get to know them better via interacting through dialog.  You get to see them develop as characters and can even form friendships with them.  I think that can increase ones emotional attachment to the PC and story in general.  Plus, some people prefer more character driven stories (BW is pretty good at that).

This is lacking with the Elder Scrolls games and it may make the game/story seem a bit empty or disappointing for some.

Exactly.

BW's games have deeper relationships to the characters, while Bethesda is about the relationship with the environment.

It's about personal taste which one you like more.

[Warheadz]

Bethesda kinda shot themselves in the foot with smithing and enchanting, IMO. If you know one of them, or both, well... The loot loses all meaning since you can make far better stuff yourself. All it's good for anymore is money and enchantment gathering.

[Chewin]

Warheadz wrote...

Bethesda kinda shot themselves in the foot with smithing and enchanting, IMO. If you know one of them, or both, well... The loot loses all meaning since you can make far better stuff yourself. All it's good for anymore is money and enchantment gathering.

Certainly better than looting Tiger's Eye Fragment from everyone.

[Brockololly]

Nashiktal wrote...
Seriously though I disagree. If only because I hate when people compare games that have nothing in common save for the old sword and sorcery bit.

While they have many differences, I think you can compare the games in many other respects too. Even just in how polished the games are or how they go about creating a cohesive and authetic feeling fantasy world.

I think there are a lot of things BioWare could learn from a game like Skyrim just as much as there are some things Bethesda could learn from BioWare. Doesn't mean BioWare should start making sandbox games, but they could certainly take a note from Bethesda on creating atmosphere through the little details in the world itself and creating little stories that flesh out the world without needing tons of dialogue.

I think despite having different gameplay mechanics, both BioWare and Bethesda are trying to aim for similar goals in terms of creating authentic fantasy worlds. They're going about in different ways, with Bethesda leveraging greater player freedom while BioWare tries to go for a more authored narrative at the expense of player freedom.

[Gunderic]

Nigawatts wrote...

Elder Scrolls > Dragon Age 2 in almost everyway possible. Especially in story.

Any  mainstream RPG this year is better than Dragon Age '2'. Two Worlds 2 is better than Dragon Age 2. The very first dungeon in Oblivion is better than Dragon Age 2, by virtue of the fact that you can leave  it.

Modifié par Gunderic, 18 novembre 2011 - 05:22 .

[hugafella]

Sorry people didn't mean to create such a upset or derail the thread.

[Gunderic]

Warheadz wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Developers and the new Idea of absolute Jackassness to sell more copies

You should already know that we gamers are jackasses. If you give us a driving simulator where you drive in a city like New York, 98% of us will drive on the sidewalk and run over countless amounts of women and children within the first hour just for ****s and giggles.

Never. I'd do it just for the money they'd drop.

[naughty99]

Although there were certainly some fascinating characters in Oblivion, most of the NPCs in the world were a little bit more bland than Morrowind's characters and the main quest was not as compelling. Many of the side quests and the Dark Brotherhood questline were epic, memorable and well written quests, however, in part due to Xbox disc size limitations, they were only able to use 14 voice actors for hundreds of fully voiced roles.

In the case of Skyrim, I found the main quest, the major faction questlines, the civil war questline and many out of the hundreds of side quests to be quite well written, brilliantly voiced and much more compelling than previous TES games.

Personally, I enjoyed DA2 quite a bit, logged over 200 hours on the game, and DAO and ME2 are also among my favorites out of the past few years.

You can have a very rigidly structured epic story featuring pre-defined protagonist, with moving cinematic scenes involving companions/party members who play key roles in the story, which is all about the main quest, with some minor deviation in the outcome based on your choices along the way.

You can have a non-linear open world epic story featuring a much more customizable protagonist with perhaps slightly less moving, but still quite compelling scenes involving any out of hundreds NPCs, only a few of which will have any bearing on the main quest.

You know a few details about your backstory - arrested on the border attempting to cross into Skyrim, for example - but the rest is up to you to decide, imagine and let this character's history, racial and economic background, etc., inform the choices you make as you role play, develop relationships with various NPCs and dozens of interesting factions, ultimately progressing from a weakling nobody to Slayer of the World-Eater and Master of the Thu'um.

Either approach can be executed well or executed poorly; however, I imagine it is simply not possible to take both approaches for the same game. Unless -- I've never played MMOs before, but maybe that is along the lines of what Bioware is attempting with TOR, resulting in a budget of probably hundreds of millions of dollars.

Modifié par naughty99, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[happy_daiz]

Addai67 wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...
I looked it up this morning, and realized that one glaring mistake I made was to not listen to what I was told. Follow the blood, you say? No way, I'm going to just stand here and wonder why nothing happens.

Yep, and I think what happened is, I got ahead of myself and tried to skip some of the running around, and ended up with nothing I could do and no more quest updates from Jorleif.  Argh.  I hope all of this effort will mean I eventually get a clean house (Hjerim is the player house in Windhelm, in case you weren't aware).

I'm still trying to figure out what is a house, and what is a business in Windhelm. That town is a dang maze! Good to know, thanks!

I have been trying to wrap up Jarl quests so I can buy another house; the one in Whiterun is maxed out. So, out of curiosity, do any of the larger houses let you add an enchantment station? *crossing fingers*

[Sylvianus]

jlb524 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't like that analogy. It doesn't really fit.

Its more like this. Playing a bioware game is like sitting at a campfire and being told a story, only with you getting to edit a few details. Bethesda games are more like going TO the campfire to hear the story, but getting lost on the way and end up having your own tale to tell.

Both are good, just diffrent paths.

Pretty much.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses.  Since BW is more restrictive, they can do more with their story (like, include companions that develop along with the central story and since the PC is more defined, they can fit them into the central narrative better).  However, you're often railroaded into doing something b/c you have to in order to advance the game/story.

I personally enjoy both and Skyrim/Bioware's games are definitley my favorite rpgs. ( quote modified )

Agreed and the same.

In Dragon age it doesn't bother me if there isn't the same freedom to explore, if there isn't a big world, if they aren't much new areas, etc, and in Skyrim it doesn't bother me if companions aren't really talkative and developed for example, etc.

But I am surprised however, the writting in Skyrim is much better than I thought.

While the lore of Oblivion was cool, the main plot was really repetitive, and not really interesting. ( I did love Oblivion that said, the first game where I understood the word freedom on my Xbox )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:01 .

[weedyfun]

i'm not even stoned and i'm enjoying the sh!t out of this game.

[Nigawatts]

The Elder Scrolls> Dragon Age 2 in almost every way possible. Even down to the people who made it. I'm not saying those that made Dragon Age 2 are damned for eternity, but there has to be a point system somewhere in the universe that made them really far behind.

[happy_daiz]

Sylvianus wrote...
*snip*
But I am surprised however, the writting in Skyrim is much better than I thought.

While the lore of Oblivion was cool, the main plot was really repetitive, and not really interesting. ( I did love Oblivion that said, the first game where I understood the word freedom on my Xbox )

I loved Oblivion (and Shivering Isles), but I never really felt like I was making a lot of decisions. The lore was cool, but once I'd played through it once, there wasn't much reason to play again. I did try, a couple of times, but I already knew what was going to happen, and left a trail of partially finished saves in my wake.

With Skyrim, I feel like I'm making decisions all of the time, and not just for main quests. The writing is interesting, and I am enjoying the twists and turns some of the quests have thrown me. In a way, it kind of reminds me of the crazy, inter-woven tapestry of the plot of LOST. This is a game I know I will be investing lots of time into, and I can imagine it would be even more compelling to me if I was actually reading all of the books I've been opening.

I also think it's great that the entire world seems reactive. I had a guard tell me that I "know how to pick [my] enemies", after killing all of the Thalmor at one of the northern forts. Or the woman in a mine running up to me, to hand me the dragon bone I had just dropped, because my inventory was full. Those are just a tiny little sampling of the awesomeness of this game. I smile every time one of my feats of courage is mentioned. It's like they didn't forget me, the player.

Skyrim.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:13 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

About that Drainspell bow: Besides not requiring recharges (it's stuck at 25%), it also keep leveling up and do more damage each time my level increases. It does 33 damage now. The enchantment is not handy (it drains a small amount of mana), but until I can create a better one, I'll stick with it.

[YouthCultureForever]

Warheadz wrote...

Anyone been murdered by Krosis yet? >.>

I just fought him. He kept backing away and throwing fireballs at me when I tried to attack with my sword and shield, not enough to kill me in a few hits, but it was annoying and I was using health potions I wanted to save. So I hid behind a rock, peaked out around the edge and used my bow and arrow. He stayed ranged and missed every single fireball after that. Krosis went down in a few minutes for me at level 23. He has some nice loot, a fireball staff and a mask that increases lockpick, archery and alchemy by 20%.

Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:21 .

[Poradicus]

Well I played Skyrim and I did like the graphics, traveling the lands to other cities and meeting new npcs, questing, and such. The only downfall to the game is the relationship aspect they overhyped. Yeah yeah you get married to a select few npc's. But thats just that, you marry them and thats the end of that.

You get no sex, no kissing, no hugging, no learning about who you married. All they can do is make food for you? I mean come on Bethesda that was it? No growing a strong bond with the npc you married, I often feel like I just have mercenary to tag along. Other than that what happy_daiz mentioned above is true. There is some moments in Skyrim that will make you smile and feel happy. But if you like building a strong connection with other characters than BW hands-down has that story driven base. In Skyrim well, you build your story but the relationships in the game is a downer.

Modifié par Poradicus, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:27 .

[happy_daiz]

Poradicus wrote...

Well I played Skyrim and I did like the graphics, traveling the lands to other cities and meeting new npcs, questing, and such. The only downfall to the game is the relationship aspect they overhyped. Yeah yeah you get married to a select few npc's. But thats just that, you marry them and thats the end of that. 

Well, if you choose your spouse wisely, some of them can open a shop and give you a certain amount of dough every day...but honestly, I think if they had tried to BioWare the relationships in Skyrim, it could have ended up feeling more like Fable (but without the chicken dance). I'm kind of glad they left that stuff out, personally.

[Chromie]

So I've been doing the Thieve's GUild quests and well I had sold my armor that I was given and now I can't buy from the fence in The Red Flaggon or oes anyone know the item codes?

[Poradicus]

Yeah but happy_daiz, thats just that, I like knowing about who I married. I feel like the person is nothing more than friend of mine traveling with me, once in a while I wish they would talk to me or tell me something amazing, not just a bland quietness. And yeah they give me money but you can't compare Fable to this because thats an entirely different game.

[happy_daiz]

Poradicus wrote...

Yeah but happy_daiz, thats just that, I like knowing about who I married. I feel like the person is nothing more than friend of mine traveling with me, once in a while I wish they would talk to me or tell me something amazing, not just a bland quietness. And yeah they give me money but you can't compare Fable to this because thats an entirely different game.

Oh geez, I am well aware that Fable is a completely different type of game. LOL I was just referencing the absurdity of some of the "relationship" things from Fable.

While I agree that it would be nice to have more depth to your husband/wife, I don't see it as a dealbreaker. It's a matter of personal preference, I guess. I'm too busy killing dragons to worry about it.
 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[Poradicus]

Yeah I know, even if there isn't romance in it, I just like to know about who married thats all. But other than that Skyrim is a great rpg, and has a lot of other aspects of the game a person can get immersed in.

[Poradicus]

double post oops

Modifié par Poradicus, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:41 .

[Sylvianus]

happy_daiz wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
*snip*
But I am surprised however, the writting in Skyrim is much better than I thought.

While the lore of Oblivion was cool, the main plot was really repetitive, and not really interesting. ( I did love Oblivion that said, the first game where I understood the word freedom on my Xbox )

I loved Oblivion (and Shivering Isles), but I never really felt like I was making a lot of decisions. The lore was cool, but once I'd played through it once, there wasn't much reason to play again. I did try, a couple of times, but I already knew what was going to happen, and left a trail of partially finished saves in my wake.

With Skyrim, I feel like I'm making decisions all of the time, and not just for main quests. The writing is interesting, and I am enjoying the twists and turns some of the quests have thrown me. In a way, it kind of reminds me of the crazy, inter-woven tapestry of the plot of LOST. This is a game I know I will be investing lots of time into, and I can imagine it would be even more compelling to me if I was actually reading all of the books I've been opening.

I also think it's great that the entire world seems reactive. I had a guard tell me that I "know how to pick [my] enemies", after killing all of the Thalmor at one of the northern forts. Or the woman in a mine running up to me, to hand me the dragon bone I had just dropped, because my inventory was full. Those are just a tiny little sampling of the awesomeness of this game. I smile every time one of my feats of courage is mentioned. It's like they didn't forget me, the player.

Skyrim.

The same. :happy:

Also, who really thought that in skyrim, romance would be like Bioware's games or Fable ?  It was obvious to me, that this feature wouldn't be developed. It still an improvement, compared to Oblivion. Really I don't care, if there is no romance in Skyrim, I have already Bioware's games for that, I don't need romance everywhere.

And when Devs of Skyrim spoke about Mariage, many people did say, what the hell ? Betheda's games aren't the sims...

What has not prevented many people, and among them the same who said this kind of things, to ask how to have a wife after the game came out . Ironic is not it ? xD

Modifié par Sylvianus, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:46 .