37007 réponses à ce sujet

[KenKenpachi]

Meh the Thalmor aren't that powerful, They FAILED to beat the Empire AND the Redguards on there own drove them off. The Imperial leaders at the time was weak willed and didn't want to fight a round 2 of the great War. They smashed the Thalmor Military but lacked the political will to carry the fight into where the Isle's are Plus there is one little thing that splits them from being "like the Empire" the Empire at least DID make attempts to bring the other races in. The Thalmor? If they Win the only thing all the other races will have to look forward to is slavery, death, and xenocide.

The Empire failed primarily due to the kingdoms that "Willingly" joined, and by not making interacial connections with the royal familys it controlled elsewhere and taking the alliances at the value of the paper it was on rather than humane or Martial force, when they pulled out of those regions to face various uprisings namely in morrowind, plus the forces needed to keep the forces of Oblivion at bay, those "Allies" and client states turned on them like the pit vipers they were, plus the Empire allowing Regional kingdoms to bend Imperial Law, and not keeping its member races in line in dealing with each other, that led to resentment, not of the Empire, but in general, chiefly along racial lines, and the need for each race to have its "Own Lands" or Racial superiority. In the Empires homelands you notice that the various races lived side by side. Elsewhere the Empire was unwilling or unable to do this. And with Uriel being locked up and his pretender pratically ripping the Empire apart for Dagon, well... Its basically like the Balkans. Take the Peace Keepers out and the **** would start flying again.

[Nashiktal]

As much as I hate the thalmor, you can't call them weak when they managed to defeat and sack the IMPERIAL CAPITOL.

Bethesda is modeling the empire after the romans, which makes the thalmor the barbarian hordes. :3

[naughty99]

I wish there was such a thing as a toaster in the TES world so i could hear Gen. Tullius complain about "frakkin toasters"

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...
That's my point.  If the Empire is just going to be their stooges anyway, you are already in a war with them unless you're willing to surrender.  Capitulating to the Empire is capitulating to the Thalmor, too.

FREEEEDOM!

Nashiktal wrote...
As much as I hate the thalmor, you can't call them weak when they managed to defeat and sack the IMPERIAL CAPITOL.

And the Nords had to come down and rescue the Imperial City and drive out the Thalmor.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:23 .

[adneate]

Addai67 wrote...
Capitulating to the Empire is capitulating to the Thalmor, too.

The Treaty with the Thalmor is just appeasement so the Empire can rebuild itself, nobody in the upper echlons of the Imperial govenment are under the delusion that peace will last. Tullius doesn't even think it will last more than a few more years before they're all at war with the Thalmor again. Without Skyrim to draw troops and resources from Cyrodil would likely fall against a Thalmor onslaught, especially if the new regime in Skyrim is hostile to the Empire.

It's a matter of the greater good, the Thalmor might be able to take Skyrim or they might not but they'll surely overrun Cyrodil, Hammerfell and Highrock before that battle will be decided. Even if the Nords bleed the Thalmor dry that will still leave the vast majority of the human population living under a racist regime that sees them as vermin to be controlled or exterminated. Which seems terribly selfish of the Nords, when it would be better just to take their lumps and try to wipe the Thalmor out once and for all when the Second Great War rolls around.

[KenKenpachi]

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate the thalmor, you can't call them weak when they managed to defeat and sack the IMPERIAL CAPITOL.

Bethesda is modeling the empire after the romans, which makes the thalmor the barbarian hordes. :3

Just like when Napoleon sacked Moscow?

Yeah that worked out SO well for him.

Sacking and burning Cities, even Capitol Cities doesn't mean **** if you can't hold it. They Didn't. And the Imperials left it almost defenseless on purpose.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Nashiktal]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate the thalmor, you can't call them weak when they managed to defeat and sack the IMPERIAL CAPITOL.

Bethesda is modeling the empire after the romans, which makes the thalmor the barbarian hordes. :3

Just like when Napoleon sacked Moscow?

Yeah that worked out SO well for him.

Sacking and burning Cities, even Capitol Cities doesn't meant **** if you can't hold it. They Didn't. And the Imperials left it almost defenseless on purpose.

Roma (or in this case the imperial capital) is not in moscow my friend.

Napoleon did not lose because of an enemy army my friend. You are comparing the wrong time period here. The empire is clearly based upon the roman one, and the events are even similar.  We are not talking about a more primitive society here, in thedas' time a capitol represents the wealth and power of a nation, and for it to be sacked means the empire has weakened considerably.

Just like the romans. Although without the funny chicken joke.

[Sylvianus]

adneate wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Capitulating to the Empire is capitulating to the Thalmor, too.

The Treaty with the Thalmor is just appeasement so the Empire can rebuild itself, nobody in the upper echlons of the Imperial govenment are under the delusion that peace will last.

Exactly my thoughts.

Nobody knows exactly why the Empire surrendered while it wasn't defeated, and after a victory. It seemed immediately strange and obvious for me that it is a war strategy. And Maybe the Talmor know perfectly it is a war in long term, that's why they follow politics which try to weak and divide the Empire while they are at peace time.

Also pride does not win war, but more often precipitated the defeat. The trick is something more important to survive against an ennemy more powerful than you.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:40 .

[KenKenpachi]

Yet its not true in the case of the Romans, how many times was Rome sacked? 8 times if I'm not correct. In the end it was cultural change, lack of replacements for the broken legions, and the refusal of the Eastern Empire to support the western Empire that doomed it. So short of the Armor, its no where near the same.

[rolson00]

my thoughts darkbrotherhood wasnt as good as tes 4 also prefered tes 4s mission layout but love the story and back story it was about time the elves showed the imperials they were too weak to have an empire!

[AventuroLegendary]

Addai67 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Yeah but what happens if/when the thalmor conquer Cyrodil?

What's the difference if the Imperials are acting on behalf of the Thalmor to oppress the Nords anyway?

Do you think the Imperials are too happy with the Thalmor taking over and banning the worship of the Empire's beloved creator? Once the Empire gains enough strength, they'll drive Thalmor scum from the Imperial province and, eventually, all of mainland Tamriel.

Modifié par LegendaryAvenger, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:48 .

[billy the squid]

Sylvianus wrote...

adneate wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Capitulating to the Empire is capitulating to the Thalmor, too.

The Treaty with the Thalmor is just appeasement so the Empire can rebuild itself, nobody in the upper echlons of the Imperial govenment are under the delusion that peace will last.

Exactly my thoughts.

Nobody knows exactly why the Empire surrendered while it wasn't defeated, and after a victory. It seemed immediately strange and obvious for me that it is a war strategy. And Maybe the Talmor know perfectly it is a war in long term, that's why they follow politics which try to weak and divide the Empire while they are at peace time.

Also pride does not win war, but more often precipitated the defeat. The trick is something more important to survive against an ennemy more powerful than you.

From the few books in the game that I have read, the Empire is on the decline, certainly not collapsing, but is over extended. The signing of the treaty seems to be more a way to buy time for the Empire of rebuild and regroup as humans are able to reproduce faster that Elves I believe, in the short term the Talmor certainly have the advantage, but the Empire with it's associated vassal states looks to be able to replace it's losses more effectively than the Talmor. If I'm right in that Elves though long lived are numerically inferior to humans, but I'm not certain on that point.

Modifié par billy the squid, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Maxius Artucus]

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Yeah but what happens if/when the thalmor conquer Cyrodil?

What's the difference if the Imperials are acting on behalf of the Thalmor to oppress the Nords anyway?

Do you think the Imperials are too happy with the Thalmor taking over and banning the worship of the Empire's beloved creator? Once the Empire gains enogh strength, they'll drive Thalmor scum from the Empire.

That's not going to happen. 

[KenKenpachi]

Maxius Artucus wrote...

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Yeah but what happens if/when the thalmor conquer Cyrodil?

What's the difference if the Imperials are acting on behalf of the Thalmor to oppress the Nords anyway?

Do you think the Imperials are too happy with the Thalmor taking over and banning the worship of the Empire's beloved creator? Once the Empire gains enogh strength, they'll drive Thalmor scum from the Empire.

That's not going to happen. 

I help to make it happen each time I come across and murder each of there patrols,  so far my count is around 50

[Nashiktal]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Yet its not true in the case of the Romans, how many times was Rome sacked? 8 times if I'm not correct. In the end it was cultural change, lack of replacements for the broken legions, and the refusal of the Eastern Empire to support the western Empire that doomed it. So short of the Armor, its no where near the same.

Mmm yes but the sack of rome I am speaking of is the SECOND sack, the one that marked their downfall. The only one before that was eight centuries prior. The second sack was the mark of the downfall of the roman empire as a whole, which opened the way for the next six sacks you speak of.

The empire is indeed in a similar situation. As from the books  I have read say at least. The thalmor invade, crush the army they meet, do better than they expected, and decide to push on toward the imperial capitol (which lacking a significant army due to losses fighting the thalmor... Hmmm sound familiar?) and take it. The empire manages to kill all the thalmor inside a year or so later after mustering an army, but only because for some strange reason the silly elves decided to hold the capitol instead of leaving.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the empire kicks the thalmor down into the mud, but its clearly been decaying for quite some time now, and the thalmor seem to be much more powerful currently.

[Nashiktal]

rolson00 wrote...

my thoughts darkbrotherhood wasnt as good as tes 4 also prefered tes 4s mission layout but love the story and back story it was about time the elves showed the imperials they were too weak to have an empire!

Don't worry the argonians will probably pick up the slack and slap you silly elves back into the ground as worm food.

[AventuroLegendary]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Maxius Artucus wrote...

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Yeah but what happens if/when the thalmor conquer Cyrodil?

What's the difference if the Imperials are acting on behalf of the Thalmor to oppress the Nords anyway?

Do you think the Imperials are too happy with the Thalmor taking over and banning the worship of the Empire's beloved creator? Once the Empire gains enogh strength, they'll drive Thalmor scum from the Empire.

That's not going to happen. 

I help to make it happen each time I come across and murder each of there patrols,  so far my count is around 50

The Thalmor CAN be driven out of the Empire with the Unity of High Rock, Skyrim, and Hammerfell. They can also liberate Elsewheyr and Valenwood. 

And I think I found my new hobby other than collecting troll skulls, Scorpion. Perhaps taking Thalmor spines?  The Dragonborn can make it happen.

[AventuroLegendary]

Nashiktal wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

my thoughts darkbrotherhood wasnt as good as tes 4 also prefered tes 4s mission layout but love the story and back story it was about time the elves showed the imperials they were too weak to have an empire!

Don't worry the argonians will probably pick up the slack and slap you silly elves back into the ground as worm food.

Damn straight. Argonian power! Also, where are the Provinces of Black Marsh and (Conquered) Morrowind in all of this? Seems that they don't care too much that a High Elven Dominion will be at their doorstep soon.

[billy the squid]

Nashiktal wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Yet its not true in the case of the Romans, how many times was Rome sacked? 8 times if I'm not correct. In the end it was cultural change, lack of replacements for the broken legions, and the refusal of the Eastern Empire to support the western Empire that doomed it. So short of the Armor, its no where near the same.

Mmm yes but the sack of rome I am speaking of is the SECOND sack, the one that marked their downfall. The only one before that was eight centuries prior. The second sack was the mark of the downfall of the roman empire as a whole, which opened the way for the next six sacks you speak of.

The empire is indeed in a similar situation. As from the books  I have read say at least. The thalmor invade, crush the army they meet, do better than they expected, and decide to push on toward the imperial capitol (which lacking a significant army due to losses fighting the thalmor... Hmmm sound familiar?) and take it. The empire manages to kill all the thalmor inside a year or so later after mustering an army, but only because for some strange reason the silly elves decided to hold the capitol instead of leaving.

Don't get me wrong, I hope the empire kicks the thalmor down into the mud, but its clearly been decaying for quite some time now, and the thalmor seem to be much more powerful currently.

Er no, I don't think so, the Eastern half of the Roman Empire carried on until the 15th century until it was overrun by the Seljuk turks. The Western half of the Empire collapsed in about 500 AD, but after numerous civil Consatntine the Great divided the Empire with the capital in Constantinople and Rome, in the 3rd century AD, both were able to function autonomously.

Modifié par billy the squid, 22 novembre 2011 - 12:55 .

[KenKenpachi]

Nashiktal wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I hope the empire kicks the thalmor down into the mud, but its clearly been decaying for quite some time now, and the thalmor seem to be much more powerful currently.

I think all of the civilizations are ghosts of where they were a thousand years ago. I mean look at all the ruins and legends that have turned out true. Heck if the dwarves showed up again with there tech, all of the races and nations would be screwed.

[billy the squid]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I hope the empire kicks the thalmor down into the mud, but its clearly been decaying for quite some time now, and the thalmor seem to be much more powerful currently.

I think all of the civilizations are ghosts of where they were a thousand years ago. I mean look at all the ruins and legends that have turned out true. Heck if the dwarves showed up again with there tech, all of the races and nations would be screwed.

Strange thing is the Falmer were able to push them back, but then the dwarves disappeared. I don't think they were defeated, as fighting dwarf centurions is not fun.

[KenKenpachi]

Thats what I wonder I mean looking at the falmer...I don't think they could tie a pair of shoes much less wipe out a whole race. But where and why are the dwarves hiding.

[sympathyforsaren]

A Thalmor in Markarth told me his 'Superior Race' has the Imperials in line, rank and file, and that in the coming centuries the elves will prove their dominance and systematically eliminate mortals. He also said they pulled the strings in Cyrodiil now and that the Dominion will soon control what is rightfully theirs: all of Tamriel.

[AventuroLegendary]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I hope the empire kicks the thalmor down into the mud, but its clearly been decaying for quite some time now, and the thalmor seem to be much more powerful currently.

I think all of the civilizations are ghosts of where they were a thousand years ago. I mean look at all the ruins and legends that have turned out true. Heck if the dwarves showed up again with there tech, all of the races and nations would be screwed.

I think every race (Except Argonian and Breton) has been screwed over. 
Imperials with the Great War and White-Gold Concordate. Nords with the Civil War and Talos worship banned. Redguards with Hammerfell being sold out and under Thalmor onslaught. Dunmer because of the Great Disaster and Argonian conquest.  Khajiit and Wood Elves because of Thalmor conquest. Orcs because of the sacking of Orsinum. High Elves because of Thalmor Coup and oppressive government (Second Era all over again) coming to power. You get the point. 

[chunkyman]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Thats what I wonder I mean looking at the falmer...I don't think they could tie a pair of shoes much less wipe out a whole race. But where and why are the dwarves hiding.

Weren't the Dwarves made extinct when they tried tampering with the heart of Lorkhan?