37007 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Gurris wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

More list inventories. Jesus. Why is it so hard to make a grid inventory for PC?

Because the game is being shown on the Xbox?...

They have already confirmed that the PC version will have it's own fitting HUD and UI so I don't see what the problem is.

I've read the UI will be same for both platforms.

[GodWood]

virumor wrote...
Apparently there are 300 books in the game

300 new books or just 300 books?
Because if it's the latter it'll just be the books found in the earlier Elder Scrolls games with a couple of extras.
Which isn't that impressive.


Also, anyone spotted an argonian yet?

[Bryy_Miller]

naughty99 wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Videos have been removed.

Hmmm, they are fast it seems 

alternate links for June 7 gameplay demo

Here is Part 1 and Part 2

alternate link for Part 1 and Part 2 of the June 7 G4 gameplay demo

Another new article confirms 300 readable books in Skyrim

So.
I was impressed before. I knew I would buy it. 

But the map system? The leveling/skill system?

Day 1.

[J0HNL3I]

new video (i think) and info including the main quest being about 30 hours long!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

J0HNL3I wrote...



new video (i think) and info including the main quest being about 30 hours long!

I remember how they claimed that the main quest in Oblivion was 40 hours long... I'm also guessing that the stuff with Dragons being all uber dynamic will be scaled down massively by release. Radiant Story probably will have troubles too...



Never forget.

So, let's not believe everything we see from Bethesda.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 08 juin 2011 - 09:46 .

[HoonDing]

mrcrusty wrote...

J0HNL3I wrote...



new video (i think) and info including the main quest being about 30 hours long!

I remember how they claimed that the main quest in Oblivion was 40 hours long... I'm also guessing that the stuff with Dragons being all uber dynamic will be scaled down massively by release. Radiant Story probably will have troubles too...



Never forget.

So, let's not believe everything we see from Bethesda.

You realize that video came before they overhauled Radiant AI completely because of all the weird stuff it caused in the gameworld, right?

Word is also they had to cut major corners because they weren't used to X360 yet.

I don't think Bethesda considers that they can get away with the same crap twice.

Modifié par virumor, 08 juin 2011 - 10:03 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

virumor wrote...
You realize that video came before they overhauled Radiant AI completely because of all the weird stuff it caused in the gameworld, right?

How is that inconsistant with what I'm saying? I know why they did it. Just hoping people don't take Bethesda's statements on blind faith. I mean, the game looks good so far, I'm pretty excited myself. But when Bethesda says something like "oh the main quest in Skyrim is 30 hours" when they said that the Oblivion main quest was 40 hours, or when they said that the Dragon's behaviour is all dynamic and not scripted when their big demo of Radiant AI was scripted when they said it wasn't... well... I just raise my eyebrow.

FYI, the parts cut from Radiant AI had to do with occuption, disposition and the like. Rival Farmers would murder each other for tools instead of trading them for it and they couldn't get the metrics right for an actual living world with a working economy, etc. But nothing in the video shown. It was all scripted. How else would all the NPCs know exactly what to say and when?

Modifié par mrcrusty, 08 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[HoonDing]

I'm just saying that Bethesda didn't lie on purpose in that E3 2005 video.

Btw, I'm pretty sure the dragon arriving and picking up the giant in the E3 2011 video was scripted. There's no way that was coincidence.

As for dragons' dynamic behavior... I imagine that dragons won't come near cities otherwise those might get depopulated.

[naughty99]

mrcrusty wrote...

J0HNL3I wrote...



new video (i think) and info including the main quest being about 30 hours long!

I remember how they claimed that the main quest in Oblivion was 40 hours long... I'm also guessing that the stuff with Dragons being all uber dynamic will be scaled down massively by release. Radiant Story probably will have troubles too...



Never forget.

So, let's not believe everything we see from Bethesda.

"I said, Mommy is reading, dammit!" *casts paralyze spell on her dog*  ROFL:lol:

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Imagine if that was actually just a behaviour in Oblivion and not a scripted event?

It would be borked somehow, and the Mage's Guild would be running around town shouting out "I said Mommy/Daddy is reading, dammit!" casting paralyze on random NPCs and Guards.

That would be hilarious.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 08 juin 2011 - 10:21 .

[Killyox the Defender]

I just want more entertaining combat and pellcasting. Everything else can be done like morrowind but with better graphics ofc. Got oblivion but...morrowind was 10x better.

[AngryFrozenWater]

mrcrusty wrote...

virumor wrote...
You realize that video came before they overhauled Radiant AI completely because of all the weird stuff it caused in the gameworld, right?

How is that inconsistant with what I'm saying? I know why they did it. Just hoping people don't take Bethesda's statements on blind faith. I mean, the game looks good so far, I'm pretty excited myself. But when Bethesda says something like "oh the main quest in Skyrim is 30 hours" when they said that the Oblivion main quest was 40 hours, or when they said that the Dragon's behaviour is all dynamic and not scripted when their big demo of Radiant AI was scripted when they said it wasn't... well... I just raise my eyebrow.

FYI, the parts cut from Radiant AI had to do with occuption, disposition and the like. Rival Farmers would murder each other for tools instead of trading them for it and they couldn't get the metrics right for an actual living world with a working economy, etc. But nothing in the video shown. It was all scripted. How else would all the NPCs know exactly what to say and when?

Even in Oblivion there is an extensive dialog system which works without scripting. Instead it works with infamy, quest stages, factions, etc. In the construction set you can find a window in which you can enter the voice file and text plus the conditions when these lines will be spoken by which character or faction. None of that requires scripting. The conditions can be more complex than that, in which case you either enter it manually or use a menu driven system which helps you define the conditions - all from within that same window.

Edit: A similar system exists for schedules: When to eat, sleep, travel, swim, gossip, etc. That system is the base for Radient AI. No scripting involved.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juin 2011 - 10:36 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Even in Oblivion there is an extensive dialog system which works without scripting. Instead it works with infamy, quest stages, factions, etc. In the construction set you can find a window in which you can enter the voice file and text plus the conditions when these lines will be spoken by which character or faction. None of that requires scripting. The conditions can be more complex than that, in which case you either enter it manually or use a menu driven system which helps you define the conditions.

Does that include dialog amongst actors and NPCs, or does it only trigger in conversation with the player?

[HoonDing]

Any word yet on system requirements? Since it's supposed to run on consoles, I'm guessing they won't be much higher than Fallout 3/New Vegas?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

virumor wrote...

Any word yet on system requirements? Since it's supposed to run on consoles, I'm guessing they won't be much higher than Fallout 3/New Vegas?

Good assumption, I imagine it will be similar on the lower and medium settings, but the higher settings with more eyecandy would require a better rig than current Gamebryo games on equivalent settings.

[AngryFrozenWater]

mrcrusty wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Even in Oblivion there is an extensive dialog system which works without scripting. Instead it works with infamy, quest stages, factions, etc. In the construction set you can find a window in which you can enter the voice file and text plus the conditions when these lines will be spoken by which character or faction. None of that requires scripting. The conditions can be more complex than that, in which case you either enter it manually or use a menu driven system which helps you define the conditions.

Does that include dialog amongst actors and NPCs, or does it only trigger in conversation with the player?

NPCs with a schedule (I edited my post above) in combination with that dialogue system make them come alive. They talk to each other, gossip, travel, sleep, eat, etc. You can also specify to make them talk to the player character.

Edit: According to the Radient AI the player is nothing but a member of a regular faction: The player faction. The player itself can also be specified.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juin 2011 - 10:44 .

[Archaven]

Wow the 2nd part trailer looks freaking awesome.. but as what mrcrusty said.. they used to hype the game with all the bells and whistles which turns out not appear in the final game.

Gonna wait for the official release and the review before jumping to conclusions.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Right. As I read it, it makes sense to me, because I know it's true. The rumors, gossip and the like are chosen at random from a set of topics that are narrowed down depending on certain factors that you mentioned, such as quest stages, factions, fame/infamy, location, etc. Two NPCs talking would be linked together by the same topic and spur out lines about the topic depending on factors like conversation stage, disposition, etc etc.

Though there is an overabundance of mudcrab talk amongst the people of Cyrodiil if you ask me.

No idea why it didn't click for me before when I actually knew all of that.

Hmm...

[AngryFrozenWater]

Here's how factions and Radiant AI works (all done without scripting): Creatures and NPCs all belong to factions. All bandits will be of the bandits faction. All deer will be of the prey faction. The bandits and prey factions are specified as being enemies (there's a percentage for that). When a bandit meets deer it will hunt them. Monsters will not hunt deer, because their disposition towards prey has not been set. Guards belong to the guards faction and are enemies of bandits, but like monsters they will not hunt prey. Different humanoid factions can be enemies of each other. When one kills the other and when a guard is in range, the guard will try to arrest the murderer. When the killer resists (depending on each other's disposition) they'll try to kill each other instead.

Radiant Story is a new Skyrim system. In Oblivion you could not kill an NPC with a quest (there was a flag you could specify in the character creator). Many people didn't like that. Todd gave the following example: The new system allows you to specify a backup quest giver and the relation to the main quest giver. Suppose the backup is the sister of the main quest giver. You could simply specify that without coping additional quest info. All you need to do is give her the appropriate voice files and text and mark her as backup. Whenever the original quest giver dies the backup takes over, so you can still do the quest. However, when you've killed the main quest giver his sister won't be happy to see you.

According to Todd, they've added a lot of these situations to Radiant Story. When you analyze quests a lot of them behave in similar fashions. It's not that all quests behave the same now, they've analyzed parts of quests. Mixing and matching those gives enough variation. The advantage is that it prevents complex scripting and may prevent scripting bugs.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juin 2011 - 11:10 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Interesting note: The prey faction have been set to always flee whenever they encounter a member of an enemy faction. That gives the illusion of the hunt.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 08 juin 2011 - 11:26 .

[DragonRageGT]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Interesting note: The prey faction have been set to always flee whenever they encounter a member of an enemy faction. That gives the illusion of the hunt.

'cept that since I could run faster than M'aiq, they could never escape me! =)

If one thing interests me the most about Skyrim is that I only play Nords!

/me is going home!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Radiant Story is a new Skyrim system. In Oblivion you could not kill an NPC with a quest (there was a flag you could specify in the character creator). Many people didn't like that. Todd gave the following example: The new system allows you to specify a backup quest giver and the relation to the main quest giver. Suppose the backup is the sister of the main quest giver. You could simply specify that without coping additional quest info. All you need to do is give her the appropriate voice files and text and mark her as backup. Whenever the original quest giver dies the backup takes over, so you can still do the quest. However, when you've killed the main quest giver his sister won't be happy to see you.

According to Todd, they've added a lot of these situations to Radiant Story. When you analyze quests a lot of them behave in similar fashions. It's not that all quests behave the same now, they've analyzed parts of quests. Mixing and matching those gives enough variation. The advantage is that it prevents complex scripting and may prevent scripting bugs.

It's definitely an interesting concept, I'm just wondering how far back they'll be able to account for dead quest givers before people possibly running into the "essential NPC" problem again. The way that Bethesda designs their quests, it's not like you can run through the game killing everything and still beat the main quest. The narrative is definitely NPC driven as opposed to presenting the player with a situation and letting them run wild with the NPCs just reacting to the player. Sounds like a delight for the modders though as an extra feature.

What also interests me is how they will handle the demand/supply aspect of their economic system. I'm wondering whether how moddable such areas would be. A personal dream of mine is constructing a scenario where the narrative is basic, but the gameplay is almost limitless in it's variation due to the clever use of mechanics, as opposed to scripting multiple paths.

For example, the War-Chief of Town A wants you to kill the leader of Town B because they are at war with each other. That's it, go.

How do you go about this?

In typical RPG fashion, you slaughter your way through the town and butcher everyone, then when you arrive at Town B's Hall, you meet Mr. B Boss. In some RPGs, you're able to talk him down and he surrenders. In others, you're not given a choice.

Great RPGs will allow for two more paths: wholly diplomatic and stealth. The diplomatic path has you talking down a guard, who then leads you to the boss, blah blah. Whereas the stealth path has you going through underground tunnels that conveniently lead outside the town hall.

But why limit it to these three predetermined paths that are all accounted for?

What if you could get into the town by infiltration via the use of a Faction Disguise mechanic (New Vegas, for example)? What if you pose as a Merchant, Blacksmith or someone else? Or simple Illusion Magic.

Then, let's add a realistic economy into it. What if you destroy Town B's lumber mill, it's primary source of income and trade. Town B descends into outright anarchy over time. People on the streets, attacking each other for food and supplies. You can easily sneak in during the Chaos, a dead Guard here, a missing person there. No one would notice if you were stealthy. Playing as a Merchant, you could also make a killing on trading with these people as they are desperate money and supplies.

None of that requires any specific scripting whatsoever, just utilising the mechanics to provide a more unique and open experience.

If Bethesda could pull it off, or at least lay down the foundations for future games or modders... by God, I'd be so happy. Then, if you combine that open world and mechanics with an RPG character system with depth, along with skill checks, a great setting, lore... if someone did that...

... Well...

I'd probably be dead, because the RPG goodness contained in such a game would only be possible in Heaven.

[KenKenpachi]

Yeah the NPC thing is a concern for me as well. they'll need to bring back NPC's you can't kill, or a respawn system, even if its randomnized, because you WILL have someone that will kill every last person in the town. Hell if they have property management I will if it gets me the houses cheap enough. What? It helps fund my war/adventuring efforts >>.

Plus if Dragons really do just run around unscripted attacking whatever is near them, sooner or later it WILL be a village, and that would such if you had to take a letter to someone in a quest only to get a notification that says.

"Opps a Dragon has killed everyone in town, no point in delivering the message, please try again". I like Bethseda, but if one thing I know about them is, the games are bug ridden most of the time, even years latera patch is not out for all the issues for Oblivion. And Skyrim is even more complex.. It will either be the best game ever, a worthy ES game (yet not the best ever) or a bug ridden controller thrower.

[chunkyman]

Gamespot interview sucked. Only info is mounted combat is out.