37007 réponses à ce sujet

[bussinrounds]

www.gamersmint.com/bethesda-consoles-to-be-the-lead-platform-for-skyrim-aim-to-make-it-really-accessible

What are peoples thoughts on this ?

Modifié par bussinrounds, 08 juin 2011 - 07:48 .

[HoonDing]

1. Console was the lead platform for Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

2. With console as the lead platform, at least I'll be able to max it out on my outdated rig.

3. "Accessible" is just marketing speak aiming to draw in as many "casuals" as possible.

[naughty99]

bussinrounds wrote...

www.gamersmint.com/bethesda-consoles-to-be-the-lead-platform-for-skyrim-aim-to-make-it-really-accessible

What are peoples thoughts on this ?

It's extremely shocking news.

/sarcasm

Todd said almost the same thing a few months ago.

Actually he said something much worse, that he estimated PC market at 10% of their business, which doesn't make sense according to any sales records for Oblivion or FO3.

It's disappointing, but such is life. At least it has been confirmed that we will get higher resolution textures, DX11 optimization features and probably a few more unannounced PC features such as higher quality shadows, etc.

[naughty99]

mrcrusty wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Radiant Story is a new Skyrim system. In Oblivion you could not kill an NPC with a quest (there was a flag you could specify in the character creator). Many people didn't like that. Todd gave the following example: The new system allows you to specify a backup quest giver and the relation to the main quest giver. Suppose the backup is the sister of the main quest giver. You could simply specify that without coping additional quest info. All you need to do is give her the appropriate voice files and text and mark her as backup. Whenever the original quest giver dies the backup takes over, so you can still do the quest. However, when you've killed the main quest giver his sister won't be happy to see you.

According to Todd, they've added a lot of these situations to Radiant Story. When you analyze quests a lot of them behave in similar fashions. It's not that all quests behave the same now, they've analyzed parts of quests. Mixing and matching those gives enough variation. The advantage is that it prevents complex scripting and may prevent scripting bugs.

It's definitely an interesting concept, I'm just wondering how far back they'll be able to account for dead quest givers before people possibly running into the "essential NPC" problem again. The way that Bethesda designs their quests, it's not like you can run through the game killing everything and still beat the main quest. The narrative is definitely NPC driven as opposed to presenting the player with a situation and letting them run wild with the NPCs just reacting to the player. Sounds like a delight for the modders though as an extra feature.

What also interests me is how they will handle the demand/supply aspect of their economic system. I'm wondering whether how moddable such areas would be. A personal dream of mine is constructing a scenario where the narrative is basic, but the gameplay is almost limitless in it's variation due to the clever use of mechanics, as opposed to scripting multiple paths.

For example, the War-Chief of Town A wants you to kill the leader of Town B because they are at war with each other. That's it, go.

How do you go about this?

In typical RPG fashion, you slaughter your way through the town and butcher everyone, then when you arrive at Town B's Hall, you meet Mr. B Boss. In some RPGs, you're able to talk him down and he surrenders. In others, you're not given a choice.

Great RPGs will allow for two more paths: wholly diplomatic and stealth. The diplomatic path has you talking down a guard, who then leads you to the boss, blah blah. Whereas the stealth path has you going through underground tunnels that conveniently lead outside the town hall.

But why limit it to these three predetermined paths that are all accounted for?

What if you could get into the town by infiltration via the use of a Faction Disguise mechanic (New Vegas, for example)? What if you pose as a Merchant, Blacksmith or someone else? Or simple Illusion Magic.

Then, let's add a realistic economy into it. What if you destroy Town B's lumber mill, it's primary source of income and trade. Town B descends into outright anarchy over time. People on the streets, attacking each other for food and supplies. You can easily sneak in during the Chaos, a dead Guard here, a missing person there. No one would notice if you were stealthy. Playing as a Merchant, you could also make a killing on trading with these people as they are desperate money and supplies.

None of that requires any specific scripting whatsoever, just utilising the mechanics to provide a more unique and open experience.

If Bethesda could pull it off, or at least lay down the foundations for future games or modders... by God, I'd be so happy. Then, if you combine that open world and mechanics with an RPG character system with depth, along with skill checks, a great setting, lore... if someone did that...

... Well...

I'd probably be dead, because the RPG goodness contained in such a game would only be possible in Heaven.

You have some great ideas here.

According to a poster on the Bethsoft forum, who claims to have heard some interesting new tidbits about the economy from a QA tester:

1. NPC animations actually affect the game world. For example, when a smith is performing sword making animations, when he finishes, a new sword is added to his merchant inventory.

2. There will be traveling NPC traders

3. Farmers will farm crops and transport them to merchants where presumably there is some sort of exchange of gold that allows the goods to be added to the merchant's inventory.

Modifié par naughty99, 08 juin 2011 - 08:01 .

[Bejos_]

It's fine if you want to put all the mechanics behind the curtain. A play always feels more real when you don't have to watch the stagehands rolling background environments onto the stage, in front of your eyes.

The problem is when you reduce the overall complexity so that you don't have to do so much work behind the curtain.

And this is what developers for consoles do, almost invariably. They reduce the complexity, instead of, or while simultaneously, hiding it.

It's not console players' fault. It's the developers' fault for being so patronising and condescending towards their audience/customers. The industry places console players in that position; it's not the console players that led the industry there.

As for Skyrim: If this ends up being Pretty Oblivion With Awesome Button ...

I'll have to hold off on purchasing it until a few weeks after its release, apparently. RPG Codex and Rock Paper Shotgun should be able to confirm whether this is a viable or **** product.

Edit: I was completely okay with giving Bethesda money until this news. Sure, it's been said before. But I'm having flashbacks to DA2 marketing bull****, and now every time a developer goes to great lengths to explain, over and over, that, "Yes, this game has been c-o-n-s-o-l-e-f-o-c-u-s-e-d", I immediately expect it to be excremental. Oh, Bioware, what hast thou done to your fans' expectations of the gaming industry?
Yeah, I'm waiting for reviews. User reviews.

Modifié par Bejos_, 08 juin 2011 - 08:30 .

[Twitchmonkey]

RPG Codex doesn't like anything unless it's a text-based RPG from 1996 that requires owning a copy of the D&D Player's Manual. My main worry with a console focus is that there won't be modding tools released, but Bethesda is usually good about that. Modders can do a lot to remove the consolification, at least the engine and the world looks really well done.

[J0HNL3I]

dont worry there not bioware have faith in them, im sure they'll deliver

[HoonDing]

Bethesda is good at listening to their fanbase and the game was in development for 3 years, I highly doubt it will be a debacle of DA2-like proportions.

Those dragon shouts do seem as an "Awesome Button" of instant win, though.

But I'm guessing they're A) hard to acquire and have a very long cooldown so they can only be used for difficult battles.

[naughty99]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

My main worry with a console focus is that there won't be modding tools released, but Bethesda is usually good about that.

Todd confirmed in a previous interview that the "Creation Kit" will be released around 11.11.11 or shortly thereafter.

[bussinrounds]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

RPG Codex doesn't like anything unless it's a text-based RPG from 1996 that requires owning a copy of the D&D Player's Manual. My main worry with a console focus is that there won't be modding tools released, but Bethesda is usually good about that. Modders can do a lot to remove the consolification, at least the engine and the world looks really well done.

   Nice.  Thanks Bejos, sound like a site i would like, as i'm more into the tactical d&d style rpgs than these action games anyways.  (even though i can still enjoy them somewhat)

Modifié par bussinrounds, 08 juin 2011 - 08:58 .

[Twitchmonkey]

naughty99 wrote...
Todd confirmed in a previous interview that the "Creation Kit" will be released around 11.11.11 or shortly thereafter.

Then my worries are minimal. The modders managed to make Morrowind feel like a somewhat modern game and out of the box that game shows its age.

[mr will jc]

Modifié par mr will jc, 08 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[Bejos_]

bussinrounds wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

RPG Codex doesn't like anything unless it's a text-based RPG from 1996 that requires owning a copy of the D&D Player's Manual. My main worry with a console focus is that there won't be modding tools released, but Bethesda is usually good about that. Modders can do a lot to remove the consolification, at least the engine and the world looks really well done.

   Nice.  Thanks Bejos, sound like a site i would like, as i'm more into the tactical d&d style rpgs than these action games anyways.  (even though i can still enjoy them somewhat)

Bussinrounds, beware their hyperbole and cussing. If you can ignore the OTT, you'll find most of the forumites actually give fair opinions.
Twitchmonkey, their yearning for the past aside, from what I can tell they have taste pretty similar to mine. Most agreed TW2 was a fairly good game (mostly 6.5-8.5/10) and that DA2 sucked (although, no surprise there). Most of them even seem to like ME for what it is.
If you keep in mind that RPG Codex tends toward exaggeration, you'll get a good idea of what a game is about from the site.

Modifié par Bejos_, 08 juin 2011 - 09:11 .

[J0HNL3I]

That comic is epic!

[sympathy4saren]

C'Mon, let's not start the whole console thing. I play on pc, but I hope as many people as possible can enjoy this game. It's not like its a cheap console focus...you heard Howard...Bethesda is pushing this generation of consoles to the very brink of their technical abilities, and I believe him. Look at the game. The detail. Think how big we KNOW it is. This game demonstrates what these consoles can do...nobody made a game to push them until now. Bethesda wants money, of course, but at least they go about it by delivering as much as they can, or as Howard put it, "throwing the stone as far as we can".

That being said, of course pc will have higher resolutions, and of course UI will be a little different. That's fantastic.



Ok...back to the game...

On no horse combat, I'm ok with that. No problems at all.

[sympathy4saren]

As far as looting, I hope they keep it similar to Oblivion, mechanics wise. I loved looting in Oblivion, and I liked the sound effects that went with picking something up.

[ScepticMatt]

bussinrounds wrote...
What are peoples thoughts on this ?

I'm a little disappointed, because often times 'accessible' meant 'dumbed down'. With all the 'console focus' or 'PC port' talk, I wait for more previews and reviews until I'll buy it. (IMO)
<_<

Modifié par ScepticMatt, 08 juin 2011 - 10:10 .

[HoonDing]

As if "dumbing down" Oblivion is even possible. They're just getting rid of the broken class & skill system.

[bussinrounds]

virumor wrote...

As if "dumbing down" Oblivion is even possible. They're just getting rid of the broken class & skill system.

 Yea, i was gonna say, it's not the most complex rpg to begin with. 

It's more about throwing into a world, as if your the one out there actually exploring it.

That's why 1st person works better for a game like this.  Your looking through your eyes, as if you were actually out there.   More of a simulator type game really.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It has led to certain gameplay aspects being taken into consideration for sure. I remember reading awhile back in an interview about how Skyrim's initial design was to be entirely open in respect to cities and load screens at the walls. This got canned on the larger cities due to dated hardware in consoles. Why this matters is because dragons are supposed to be independant, free-roaming events throughout the game. It would be great to see a dragon fly in and torch a large city from far away, but if the dragon can only torch the city from inside that loaded area, it kind of takes away from the atmosphere of the game. It would really create a sense of urgency to see a group of dragons attacking a town miles away if your character and companions had to get there from another place.

This is not some PC-Master-Race dig against consoles, but it is a fact that consoles are not designed to be upgraded so there are hardware limitations obviously with time. If games cater to consoles, then there are some limitations that go with it.

[J0HNL3I]

This MAY turn into a flame war, let's get back to skyrim!
I hope we get to see all the races before the game is released

[HoonDing]

I'd be surprised if dragons will ever come close to cities, because they would end up killing NPCs important for quests...

It actually happened in Fallout 3 that some of the open settlements would get invaded by giant radscorpions and deathclaws - very annoying. Traveling merchants also got themselves killed this way.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

That is the tricky part. Bethesda has said that dragons are entirely unscripted in their appearance, but they also have said that at certain points of the game they do attack towns. I guess a couple of town events might be scripted. I have been also guessing that they intro of the main character being led to execution will be interrupted by such an attack. That would be the best way I can come up with to start off this game.