1136342t54 wrote...
Also you couldn't really blame Elisif. If she even hinted at trying to recognize Talos as a deity it would be her ass. A unknown doing this would be much better for this task.
If your view of a good war leader is one who always licks the boots of superiors no matter what leadership does, we'll have to differ on that.
Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:08 .
The Thalmor can't fight an actual united Empire that is why they spreaded so much chaos and they did get pretty lucky by gaining so much ground through Cyrodil forcing the Empire to sign a treaty on there terms. The Thalmor aren't really better when it comes to warfare. The Redgaurd pretty much showed them who is better. They needed to weaken the Empire by making sure they aren't united.Addai67 wrote...
Eh, I don't agree. People give the Thalmors too much credit, and underestimate the losses they've suffered and can't easily recoup due to low birth rate and their own penchant for killing their young.
IMO an independent Skyrim is bad news for them. But I'm tired of arguing it.
So again why blame Elisif for the Empire's mistakes? I am disgusted at what happened but the Empire could not continue a war. They were able to beat back the Thalmor but at a certain point the Empire couldn't counter attack at all into the Aldmeri Dominion. They had no choice but to be humiliated less they lose the Empire.And that is what the empire has reduced the Nord jarls to. I completely share Ulfric's disgust, so I also completely understand why he did what he did.
Addai67 wrote...
Eh, what? Attack Skyrim? They're occupying Skyrim. The empire surrendered without giving the Nords a say, and rather than recognize that he'd made promises he couldn't keep, Titus Meade decides to bleed his own people.
As for Elisif, I know why she was skulking around. I said I pitied her, to be reduced so low.
Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:19 .
Costin_Razvan wrote...
If your view of a good war leader is one who always licks the boots of superiors no matter what leadership does, we'll have to differ on that.
Welcome to military reality: You do what the **** you are told to do I don't care what about think of it, it's one of basic military principles in all our entire history. A military can't function if every soldier questions their leaders openly.
And that's what Ulfric is, a soldier who thinks he knows better then his superior...well good for him.
My reasons for being against revolutions and rebelions is based on where I live. Thousands died in my country for NOTHING except idiotic idealism.
Well you and I aren't going to agree on this, because I see murdering to appease Sithis as just as evil. The scale might be different but the individual people who are participating are equally disgusting, in my view. And someone who murders for the Dark Brotherhood has no more moral high ground than any Thalmor murderer. But the argument that the Thalmor are 'too evil' to join? No, I don't buy it. Too destructive, yes, but not too evil.1136342t54 wrote...
They aren't really just "I'm an Assassin I'll kill because Sithis commands and I get paid for it." evil they are "I will erase your species from the timeline and rewrite reality to the point where the MASTER RACE Altmer can live as immortal spirits destroying reality as you know it."phaonica wrote...
I dont think so. Whether or not you can join a faction has nothing to do with whether the faction is evil or not.
Yeah, they could have. The same could be said for dealing with why you can't join or confront Loghain right at the beginning. It potentially has nothing to do with whether or not that would actually work, but rather that it's not how the devs wanted that story to play out.Sure. Just like Bioware could have made the Archdemon less into killing everyone so you it could be your possible ally.
Well, I'm definitely not well versed in the lore, so if the whole Thalmor want to rewrite time and space thing came about before Skyrim, that would certainly be a problem.They would have to rewrite the Altmer entire history. Hell its possble the history to the creation of Tamriel would have some rewrites.
Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn, but the *purpose* of a dragonborn is NOT to create the Empire or fight against the Thalmor. Septim did that, but it doesn't mean that's the whole point of a dragonborn.Considering that Tiber Septim (****ign Dragonborn) is the creator of the freaking Empire I'd say the Thalnor would definitely not like any Dragonborn and would in fact probably kill the Dragonborn.
No you don't need to advance the plot.Rockworm503 wrote...
Well I've given up all hope of seeing another Dragon in my playthrough.
I've got like 8 words of power that I can't unlock cause I haven't seen a single dragon in like 2 weeks now.
Maybe I have to advance the main quest some more? I dunno I know their random but this is rediculous.
On a high note I finally go the Solitude house and I get why people love it. Forget Ulfric or the Empire I should be High King at this point. I could easily buy the country at this point lol.
If I had a choice between let a Dark Brotherhood Assassin live and a Thalmor I'd pick Thalmor. The Dark Brotherhood is bad but they are not on the level of end the entire ****ing world.phaonica wrote...
Well you and I aren't going to agree on this, because I see murdering to appease Sithis as just as evil. The scale might be different but the individual people who are participating are equally disgusting, in my view. And someone who murders for the Dark Brotherhood has no more moral high ground than any Thalmor murderer. But the argument that the Thalmor are 'too evil' to join? No, I don't buy it. Too destructive, yes, but not too evil.
I'm looking at it from an in game perspective. Your explanation could be used as a blame for every single the thing in the game world that you don't like dealing with the lore and people. It isn't immersive at all and pointless.Yeah, they could have. The same could be said for dealing with why you can't join or confront Loghain right at the beginning. It potentially has nothing to do with whether or not that would actually work, but rather that it's not how the devs wanted that story to play out.
The Thalmor reasons for wanting to end the world goes back to the way it was created.Well, I'm definitely not well versed in the lore, so if the whole Thalmor want to rewrite time and space thing came about before Skyrim, that would certainly be a problem.
Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn, but the *purpose* of a dragonborn is NOT to create the Empire or fight against the Thalmor. Septim did that, but it doesn't mean that's the whole point of a dragonborn.
Modifié par mrcrusty, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:44 .
mrcrusty wrote...
Slight spoilers but I've been wondering about this for a while: is it the Thalmor who help Ulfric escape from Helgen?
I remember reading something on the issue (the whole Ulfric is a Thalmor agent file) but that's probably not the most credible file since for the most part, it's left ambiguous. If true however, it says that the Thalmor are the ones who help Ulfric escape. Are you ever told explicitly how he escapes (by Ulfric or someone else) or is it intentionally left implicit and unsaid?
I don't know... Killing Emperors... that's cutting it a bit close.1136342t54 wrote...
If I had a choice between let a Dark Brotherhood Assassin live and a Thalmor I'd pick Thalmor. The Dark Brotherhood is bad but they are not on the level of end the entire ****ing world.
Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:48 .
Yrkoon wrote...
I don't know... Killing Emperors... that's cutting it a bit close.1136342t54 wrote...
If I had a choice between let a Dark Brotherhood Assassin live and a Thalmor I'd pick Thalmor. The Dark Brotherhood is bad but they are not on the level of end the entire ****ing world.
. Although I really wonder why exactly did the Emperor need to die.
We're never told how he escapes, and you don't get the option to ask him.mrcrusty wrote...
Slight spoilers but I've been wondering about this for a while: How does Ulfric escape from Helgen?
I remember reading something on the issue (the whole Ulfric is a Thalmor agent file) but that's probably not the most credible file since for the most part, it's left ambiguous. If true however, it says that the Thalmor are the ones who help Ulfric escape.
Are you ever told explicitly how he escapes (by Ulfric or someone else) or is it intentionally left implicit and unsaid?
All that guy did was open the gate and let Ulfric out after the duel.1136342t54 wrote...
Well in Solitude they executed a guy who helped Ulfric kill the Highking. Alduin helped Ulfric and you escape from Helgen due to wanting to continue the civil war.
Addai67 wrote...
All that guy did was open the gate and let Ulfric out after the duel.1136342t54 wrote...
Well in Solitude they executed a guy who helped Ulfric kill the Highking. Alduin helped Ulfric and you escape from Helgen due to wanting to continue the civil war.
Agents having access is hardly an occupation.Addai67 wrote...
Eh, what? Attack Skyrim? They're occupying Skyrim.
Morroian wrote...
Agents having access is hardly an occupation.Addai67 wrote...
Eh, what? Attack Skyrim? They're occupying Skyrim.
The Imperial Nords tell you that they would never have let Ulfric in if they knew he was going to challenge Torygg to a duel. That implies that he walked in the front door like anyone else.1136342t54 wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
All that guy did was open the gate and let Ulfric out after the duel.1136342t54 wrote...
Well in Solitude they executed a guy who helped Ulfric kill the Highking. Alduin helped Ulfric and you escape from Helgen due to wanting to continue the civil war.
He helped by helping him get in and out without getting caught.
Modifié par Addai67, 04 décembre 2011 - 06:15 .
I think they're equally bad. People join the Dark Brotherhood for the express purpose to murder people. The Thalmor may want a utopia for themselves that requires the death of everyone else, but the Dark Brotherhood and many of the Daedric Princes specifically revel in death and suffering.1136342t54 wrote...
If I had a choice between let a Dark Brotherhood Assassin live and a Thalmor I'd pick Thalmor. The Dark Brotherhood is bad but they are not on the level of end the entire ****ing world.
Sure, from in game my character could gripe about how he can't join the Thalmor and he could try to reason out why he can't join and come to some solid conclusions about it. Outside of the game, I as a player wonder why certain design decisions were made. You might it's pointless and not immersive to question design decisions, but I don't.I'm looking at it from an in game perspective. Your explanation could be used as a blame for every single the thing in the game world that you don't like dealing with the lore and people. It isn't immersive at all and pointless.
That's great and all, but was this plan ever mentioned before TESV?The Thalmor reasons for wanting to end the world goes back to the way it was created.
Even disregarding all of that, the idea of a non-Altmer with that kind of power would probably offend. If they'd get all uppity even with an Altmer Dragonborn, then they'd be really stupidly wasting a resource.Doesn't matter. Dragonborn is the symbol for the Empire and a Dragonborns very existence could easily be seen as an insult. Hell some Thalmor would possibly assume that the Dragonborn is somehow related to one of the Septim Emperors.
Addai67 wrote...
The Imperial Nords tell you that they would never have let Ulfric in if they knew he was going to challenge Torygg to a duel. That implies that he walked in the front door like anyone else.1136342t54 wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
All that guy did was open the gate and let Ulfric out after the duel.1136342t54 wrote...
Well in Solitude they executed a guy who helped Ulfric kill the Highking. Alduin helped Ulfric and you escape from Helgen due to wanting to continue the civil war.
He helped by helping him get in and out without getting caught.
Anyone playing a Stormcloak ending... if you want a nice little celebration after the Battle of Solitude, go clear out the Thalmor embassy.
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