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[phaonica]

Sylvianus wrote...

phaonica wrote...

And the empire under current leadership wasn't able to win before when it was strong, so I don't see how an empire actively working with the Thalmor is going to do any better.

I played Skyrim more as a romantic than a realist. Better to die fighting for freedom than to live in peace as a slave.

I like to play as a romantic too... ( romantic but not dumb ) But your sentence doesn't mean anything in the context of Skyrim. No one plans to live as a slave, and certainly not the Empire. They are already preparing for the next war. There is simply a difference in strategy. ( Well actually, Nords don't have strategy, they just want to fight ) 

I guess I have a broader definition of slavery than is probably accurate. Perhaps I should have more precisely said that I think it's better to die fighting for freedom than it is to live under the self-supremicist dictatorship of the Thalmor.

Even though the Empire might not *plan* to live as a slave, my character ( I won't speak for all Stormcloaks ) saw the Empire as wimps and cowards. You talk to them about the war and Ulfric, and while they do say they are just biding their time, they continue to make excuses about how the Empire is still too weak to fight back, and that kissing up to the Thalmor keeps them safe for now. Well, I'm done with being safe. I want to be free. And if that is suicidal on behalf of Skyrim, well, to my character, Skryim would be better off dead than ruled by the Thalmor anyway.

The Nords want to fight right now, are not willing to compromise their faith despite their current weakness against the thalmors.

No, they're not willing to compromise their faith. For some people, being allowed to express your faith is a fundamental expression of freedom. For some people, without their faith, life has no meaning. For some people, there is a higher calling than just being alive and being safe.

[Fishy]

Suprez the Mighty Dragonborn in Full dragon plate crafted by his  own legendary hand and imbued by his knowledge of the old  and the heart of daedric beast walk in the countryside battling beast with his thundering voice .. Suddently a little thief pop from the bush and ask for his money  and that he's not scared...



Immersion breabreabreaker.

[1136342t54_]

phaonica wrote...

The empire doesn't lose Skyrim resources if the Empire and independant Skyrim are allies against the Thalmor. Being allies means shared resources.

You still think Ulfric would stay allies with the Empire. That is likely not going to happen due to the stormcloaks view of the Empire.

In quick order? They did capture him, this is true, but I don't remember anyone saying that caputuring him was quick or easy. Maybe I missed it somewhere. If the Dragonborn doesn't get invovled in the civil war, neither side makes any headway.

To be honest the Empire at first were getting there asses kicked until they got a new general. At that point the Empire was actually making some headway and winning more battles. When they caught they were hoping for a quick end to a war that would have been longer but in the end would have likely resulted in the Empire winning.

The Dragonborn seriously sped things along.

I don't know what makes you think that the empire could have won so easily if not for the dragons, but whatever.

It wouldn't have been a easy win but from what we knew they would have likely won. Hell they seem to have more jarls that are likely to side with the Imperials. It would have been a Imperial victory but definitely not easy not without the Dragonborn.

[bleetman]

phaonica wrote...

The only reason the empire was having so much trouble during the course of the game was because of the dragons! The stormcloaks had to use guerilla warfare to even stand a chance.

I don't know what makes you think that the empire could have won so easily if not for the dragons, but whatever.

I would assume it has something to do with the Empire having already won before a dragon turned up. Which reminds me. What was Ulfric even doing out near the border with only a small contigent for protection? Is that ever explained?

Anyway. Man, the Dragoborn is making my Dragon Age Warden look like a complete wuss. She absorbed one soul and was destroyed. Meanwhile, my cutpurse from Cyrodiil is sucking up dragon souls like crazy with barely a scratch.

[Addai]

RageGT wrote...

Huh.. question. You guys know that amazing screenshot that many posted here, the one where looks like one's looking up right in the middle of a F5 tornado, only that it is all colourful and stuff?

What is it? Where/when does that happen? Some 300 hrs with tweo chyars and I still haven't seen it myself... *sighs*

I'm not sure which one you mean?

[Shepenwepet]

RageGT wrote...

Huh.. question. You guys know that amazing screenshot that many posted here, the one where looks like one's looking up right in the middle of a F5 tornado, only that it is all colourful and stuff?

What is it? Where/when does that happen? Some 300 hrs with tweo chyars and I still haven't seen it myself... *sighs*

I know exactly what picture you mean. Last area of the main quest. Very pretty place. I looked at the sky and said, "hey, THAT's where that shot came from."

[Addai]

xkg wrote...
First - you can't trap humanoid's soul with it.

You can if you take it back to the guy in the Winterhold inn and not back to Azura's shrine.  You lose the priestess as follower, though.

[1136342t54_]

bleetman wrote...
I would assume it has something to do with the Empire having already won before a dragon turned up. Which reminds me. What was Ulfric even doing out near the border with only a small contigent for protection? Is that ever explained?

They only would have won if they killed Ulfric. Imperials didn't win in a conventional battle in essence they was going to win through assassination.

Anyway. Man, the Dragoborn is making my Dragon Age Warden look like a complete wuss. She absorbed one soul and was destroyed. Meanwhile, my cutpurse from Cyrodiil is sucking up dragon souls like crazy with barely a scratch.

Considering that the Dragonborn didn't exactly absorb the soul of Alduin and only absorbed the souls of weaker dragons who aren't as immortal and unkillable as the Archdemon I'd say it isn't the same 


Edit: To be honest it would be counter productive to absorb the Archdemon's soul and survive. You would essentially become another host.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 06 décembre 2011 - 12:29 .

[Nashiktal]

The colorful sky tornado is seen near the end of the main quest. If you have console commands you can have it at any time. ;3

[phaonica]

1136342t54 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

The empire doesn't lose Skyrim resources if the Empire and independant Skyrim are allies against the Thalmor. Being allies means shared resources.

You still think Ulfric would stay allies with the Empire. That is likely not going to happen due to the stormcloaks view of the Empire.

He might have, if the Empire weren't so equally stubborn. If a truce can be reached between them to stop Alduin, why not the Thalmor? Especially if the Empire were to say that the Empire will withdraw from Skyrim if Skyrim agrees to ally with the Empire against the Thalmor.

It wouldn't have been a easy win but from what we knew they would have likely won. Hell they seem to have more jarls that are likely to side with the Imperials. It would have been a Imperial victory but definitely not easy not without the Dragonborn.

I don't believe the outcome can be predicted so easily. It's true that the Imperials, in essence, did win the first time (when they caught Ulfric). But hopefully the Stormcloaks aren't likely to fall for such an ambush again, and winning once does not guarantee winning twice.

Modifié par phaonica, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:38 .

[DragonRageGT]

Shepenwepet wrote...

RageGT wrote...

Huh.. question. You guys know that amazing screenshot that many posted here, the one where looks like one's looking up right in the middle of a F5 tornado, only that it is all colourful and stuff?

What is it? Where/when does that happen? Some 300 hrs with tweo chyars and I still haven't seen it myself... *sighs*

I know exactly what picture you mean. Last area of the main quest. Very pretty place. I looked at the sky and said, "hey, THAT's where that shot came from."

Thanks! Yeah, that must be it. I never advanced the MQ much. =)

This is the one. It's posted a lot all around the internet and in this thread as well



And just walking the 7,000 steps again. Really walking... that alone is longer than DA2! hahaha (I like DA2, not as much as DAO but I like it. This was a joke)

Modifié par RageGT, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[sympathyforsaren]

You can accidentally kill companions with summoned bows. I did not know this.

[Addai]

bleetman wrote...
I would assume it has something to do with the Empire having already won before a dragon turned up. Which reminds me. What was Ulfric even doing out near the border with only a small contigent for protection? Is that ever explained?

No, but I'm curious.  Ralof says he was headed for Darkwater Crossing.  There's nothing special about that place afaik, just a mine area, though contested and part of the Eastmarch so he might have just been trying to shore up support there.

People say that Ulfric is helping the Thalmor by dissolving the empire- but step one in the Thalmor's dastardly plan is to eradicate Talos from memory, and the empire is helping them to do so, even writing propaganda for them.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]phaonica wrote...

You still think Ulfric would stay allies with the Empire. That is likely not going to happen due to the stormcloaks view of the Empire. [/quote] He might have, if the Empire weren't so equally stubborn. If a truce can be reached between them to stop Alduin, why not the Thalmor? Especially if the Empire were to say that the Empire will withdraw from Skyrim if Skyrim agrees to ally with the Empire against the Thalmor.
[/quote]
The Empire is likely less stubborn than Ulfric. The Nords are a stubborn people and Ulfric is a jackass who is unlikely to ally himself with a group who surrendered to the elves. 

[quote]
I don't believe the outcome can be predicted so easily. It's true that the Imperials, in essence, did win the first time (when they caught Ulfric). But hopefully the Stormcloaks aren't likely to fall for such an ambush again, and winning once does not guarantee winning twice.
[/quote]
The war in the beginning was basically the Empire getting there asses kicked. Then Tullius (Tallius?) came in and was able to turn it around. He is also instrumental in capturing Ulfric nearly ending the war. The General was the main reason the Imperials were starting to win the war the Dragonborn coming in basically gave the Empire a quick and decisive victory instead of a long and costly one.

[1136342t54_]

greengoron89 wrote...

I could easily see Skyrim, Hammerfell, and possibly High Rock forging an alliance of nations to battle the Aldmeri Dominion - and I could also see what's left of the Empire capitulating and backing Skyrim and Hammerfell as well.

Then again this depends on how open Ulfric is to help. In general he really isn't that open to alliances and really doesn't care much for those who don't see things his way. Although Hammerfell are likely to ally with them but it may not be enough to fight the the Aldmeri Dominion. The problem the Empire had wasn't with really fighting off the Aldmeri it was with counter attacking into there territory. They just didn't have the strength for it but the Aldmeri does and they are building there forces up again.

Skyrim alone would only be able to barely defend there borders. Hammerfell is strong enough to kick Dominion ass but they still aren't at there best after a civil war then a war with the elves. That alliance likely wouldn't be strong enough to defeat the Dominion but at best make sure they can't push any further into there territories.

[Sylvianus]

Addai67 wrote...

bleetman wrote...
I would assume it has something to do with the Empire having already won before a dragon turned up. Which reminds me. What was Ulfric even doing out near the border with only a small contigent for protection? Is that ever explained?

No, but I'm curious.  Ralof says he was headed for Darkwater Crossing.  There's nothing special about that place afaik, just a mine area, though contested and part of the Eastmarch so he might have just been trying to shore up support there.

People say that Ulfric is helping the Thalmor by dissolving the empire- but step one in the Thalmor's dastardly plan is to eradicate Talos from memory, and the empire is helping them to do so, even writing propaganda for them.

Faith is not at stake in this war for many people, tbh. Surviving is already something stronger and more symbolic. If you talk to all NPC who are worried about thalmor, you see that faith (at least for those who aren't nords ) is not the first thing of their concern. Faith without survival and freedom is meaningless. That is what The Empire is trying to fight for in long-term.

The Thalmors are a real threat to their existence, their lives of free citizens. A threat to the existence of the Empire, not just a spiritual and religious threat.

Moreover, faith is not something that disappears like that, easily. The Empire is counting on a break, knowing what is at stake, and the risks.

And thanks for the word learned.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:33 .

[Sylvianus]

phaonica wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

phaonica wrote...

And the empire under current leadership wasn't able to win before when it was strong, so I don't see how an empire actively working with the Thalmor is going to do any better.

I played Skyrim more as a romantic than a realist. Better to die fighting for freedom than to live in peace as a slave.

I like to play as a romantic too... ( romantic but not dumb ) But your sentence doesn't mean anything in the context of Skyrim. No one plans to live as a slave, and certainly not the Empire. They are already preparing for the next war. There is simply a difference in strategy. ( Well actually, Nords don't have strategy, they just want to fight ) 

I guess I have a broader definition of slavery than is probably accurate. Perhaps I should have more precisely said that I think it's better to die fighting for freedom than it is to live under the self-supremicist dictatorship of the Thalmor.

Even though the Empire might not *plan* to live as a slave, my character ( I won't speak for all Stormcloaks ) saw the Empire as wimps and cowards. You talk to them about the war and Ulfric, and while they do say they are just biding their time, they continue to make excuses about how the Empire is still too weak to fight back, and that kissing up to the Thalmor keeps them safe for now. Well, I'm done with being safe. I want to be free. And if that is suicidal on behalf of Skyrim, well, to my character, Skryim would be better off dead than ruled by the Thalmor anyway.

I am ready to commit suicide for a cause suicidal if I see that my country has abandoned the war and betrayed its faith with sincerity. I'm not ready to betray my country, simply because he lost the war, or if I understand that it just saved time and try to seek solutions. That's the difference. Yes, to prohibit Talos is an injury, but the empire does not stop me to deprive Talos in private in one hand, and on the other hand, I am smart enough to understand that some sacrifices to survive are necessarily.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:46 .

[The Hierophant]

I'm trying to make a male breton Dragonborn but they all end up looking like Nicolas Cage or John Hannah. If possible can anyone give me some tips on how to at least make non N.Cage clone.

[Addai]

Sylvianus wrote...
Faith is not at stake in this war for many people, tbh. Surviving is already something stronger and more symbolic. If you talk to all NPC who are worried about thalmor, you see that faith (at least for those who aren't nords ) is not the first thing of their concern. Faith without survival and freedom is meaningless. That is what The Empire is trying to fight for in long-term.

I think you're wrong about that- but even so, my point is that the empire may be weakening themselves more than they know by turning their backs on their divine champion.  Recall that the divines in Tamriel are real, and they do actually show up on occasion via avatars.  People who say that Ulfric is playing into the Thalmor's hand should read their manifesto.  Step one is to get rid of Talos.  It's that important to them.  It's the one thing they insisted on in the treaty- and Titus Meade just handed it to them, after a victory no less.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:55 .

[Sylvianus]

Addai67 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Faith is not at stake in this war for many people, tbh. Surviving is already something stronger and more symbolic. If you talk to all NPC who are worried about thalmor, you see that faith (at least for those who aren't nords ) is not the first thing of their concern. Faith without survival and freedom is meaningless. That is what The Empire is trying to fight for in long-term.

I think you're wrong about that- but even so, my point is that the empire may be weakening themselves more than they know by turning their backs on their divine champion.  Recall that the divines in Tamriel are real, and they do actually show up on occasion via avatars.  People who say that Ulfric is playing into the Thalmor's hand should read their manifesto.  Step one is to get rid of Talos.  It's that important to them.  It's the one thing they insisted on in the treaty- and Titus Meade just handed it to them, after a victory no less.

From what I understood, people seemed more outraged by the humiliation suffered by the Empire, that the prohibition to exercise publicly their faith with Talos.

I would not be surprised that some people were relieved that the war has ended, even if ashamed.

Also, according to what I saw, I do not think that the Empire is as concerned to the spiritual point as the Thalmors are. They are desperate to crush what they see before as a threat to the empire and the human superiority. They do not consider it first as a conflict which issues would be the victory of a deity over another, the true religion against the false, unlike Thalmors in my opinion. And this is what constitutes the strength of the Thalmors and the weakness of the empire, explains to me why the Empire ceded easily in this treaty about this point.

BUT, the problem as well, is that Nords care really about this point, as much as The Thalmor. Talos was a Nord.

So while I can agree with what you said,  I do not think that the empire unlike Nords was particularly interested in that. Their religion may be weakened,  but it would not surprise me that they are willing to pay that price to win. ( according to them of course )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 décembre 2011 - 02:18 .

[phaonica]

1136342t54 wrote...

The Empire is likely less stubborn than Ulfric. The Nords are a stubborn people and Ulfric is a jackass who is unlikely to ally himself with a group who surrendered to the elves. 

I do not believe the Empire is less stubborn. But I don't think that Ulfric is completely unreasonable or idiotic either.

The war in the beginning was basically the Empire getting there asses kicked. Then Tullius (Tallius?) came in and was able to turn it around. He is also instrumental in capturing Ulfric nearly ending the war. The General was the main reason the Imperials were starting to win the war the Dragonborn coming in basically gave the Empire a quick and decisive victory instead of a long and costly one.

Yeah, I get it, you think that Tullius is the key that tips the balance of the war in the favor of the Imperials. And that may be. But I don't believe that the Stormcloaks had no chance.

[1136342t54_]

phaonica wrote...
I do not believe the Empire is less stubborn. But I don't think that Ulfric is completely unreasonable or idiotic either. 

The Empire was willing to embarass the **** out of themselves by banning the worship mother****ing TALOS. While infuriating it was the smart decision. If they were really stubborn they would have flipped the Aldmeri off and likely loss the war. Ulfric was unwilling to let that go at all and saw that as the ultimate insult to the point where he believes its his right to kick the Empire out of Skyrim weakening them further. I would be more for him to do that but the thing is Ulfric controlling Skyrim is essentially worse than the Empire especially due to his view of non Nords.

Yeah, I get it, you think that Tullius is the key that tips the balance of the war in the favor of the Imperials. And that may be. But I don't believe that the Stormcloaks had no chance.

They had a chance didn't you just read how the Stormcloaks were kicking the Empire's ass? They had a chance but it just became less likely when Tullius gained control of the Imperials.

[phaonica]

Sylvianus wrote...
Faith is not at stake in this war for many people, tbh. Surviving is already something stronger and more symbolic. If you talk to all NPC who are worried about thalmor, you see that faith (at least for those who aren't nords ) is not the first thing of their concern. Faith without survival and freedom is meaningless. That is what The Empire is trying to fight for in long-term. The Thalmors are a real threat to their existence, their lives of free
citizens. A threat to the existence of the Empire, not just a spiritual
and religious threat.Moreover, faith is not something that disappears like that, easily. The
Empire is counting on a break, knowing what is at stake, and the risks.

And thanks for the word learned.

Taking away how they are allowed to express their faith *is* taking away their freedom. Taking away their ability to worship Talos isn't just about Talos or the act of worship. It's about having their freedom taken away.