37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

The Hierophant wrote...

Should i finish the Thieves Guild 4 special jobs i just got, or should i save them for after the guild's main quest line?

Personally, I became rather tired of menial tasks, that I accepted these Special jobs quickly. Maybe others like working in the TG, but I wanted another path.

[DragonRageGT]

virumor wrote...

Skyrim metal theme

Awesome video, Awesome Guitar. Let's just hope SOPA doesn't kill this!

[Yrkoon]

mrcrusty wrote...

A question for pure Warriors (2h or S+S, even non Shadow Warrioring Dual Wielders), how do you build up your attributes in terms of Health to Stamina Ratio?

Is 3/2 a good ratio (for every 5 levels, you stack Health 3 times and Stamina twice)?

I don't do a ratio.  In general  (lol I say in general, even though I'm only on my second  real  playthru), I noticed that Health is much more important  for survival early on, so I usually pump health straight up  until I reach about 20th level.  Then I start putting points into stamina  until my carry capacity is ~400 (unenhanced), then when I feel I'm set for the rest of the game, I begin putting points into magicka

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 décembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[DragonRageGT]

mrcrusty wrote...

A question for pure Warriors (2h or S+S, even non Shadow Warrioring Dual Wielders), how do you build up your attributes in terms of Health to Stamina Ratio?

Is 3/2 a good ratio (for every 5 levels, you stack Health 3 times and Stamina twice)?

I'm conceptualising a new character system that's loosely based on the Storytelling System as seen in Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines (okay it's not really like Storytelling or V:tm-B, but I did get some ideas from it), changing the Attributes on level-up to Physical, Mental and Social with more benefits to each than just a H/M/S boost. Probably can't start until the CK comes out, but I've found a lot of the variables to change around basic stuff, like the amount of extra lbs you get per level of Stamina, the game's regen rates, training costs (which will definitely be apart of how Social is made useful) and even the bartering ratio.

I figure I'd need to lump both Stamina and Health gain into the one stat so that goes back to my question: how do you build up your character's Health and Stamina if you're a pure Warrior?

Starting from 100 each, I had Health at 300 before spending on Stamina. Then I took Stamina to 200. Then Health again to 500, then Stamina again up to 300, which is more than enough but helps with the extra weight from loot. (Most all Draugrs I fight since level 30 are Deathlords and they drop so many Ebony items that I have had a hard time with loot. I simply cannot let an Ebony Warhammer behind! =)

As soon as I could enchant things I had extra Health on my Armor, Amulet and Ring, extra Stamina on my Boots and extra Magicka on my Helmet since it was the only thing I could have anyway.

With the items, at level 63, I have 630 660 Health and 370 Stamina. 170 Magicka or 220 if wearing the Archmage's robes, which I'm doing lately for the looks. =)

My gear is enchanted now as follows:

Armor +70 Health +35% faster Stamina Regen
Helmet +70 Magicka +70% faster Magicka Regen
Boots +70 Stamina +45% Two Handed damage
Gauntlets +45% Two Handed damage +42 Carry Weight points
Necklace +70 Health + 45% Two Handed Damage
Ring +45% Two Handed Damage +42 Carry Weight points
Ring (alternate) +52% Fire resistance + 42% Shock resistance

I'm a Nord so I have +50% Cold resistance and my Potions grant me +110% resistance to Fire, Shock and Frost as well.

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[DragonRageGT]

TES V - Skyrim - Going to Blackreach HD

Nothing much special. Just wanted to show the new looks in action and well, it is the first time I'm going to Blackreach with any char, after 220 hours on the first and 200 hours on this new one. =)

The game just wouldn't let me as you can see if you analyze the stats I've posted on page 599:

http://social.biowar...789/599#8865361

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2011 - 03:42 .

[Yrkoon]

I have a question. is regen-gear/regen-enchantments really worth it? Do you actually *get* that regeneration during battle, or just afterwords? Because I once enchanted my armor with +60% health regen, then quaffed a potion of +90% regeneration, then waded in to fight Krosis, or some other nasty dragon priest and my health bar didn't replenish a single millimeter after I took damage and hid behind a rock to try and recuperate.

[The Hierophant]

Elhanan wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Should i finish the Thieves Guild 4 special jobs i just got, or should i save them for after the guild's main quest line?

Personally, I became rather tired of menial tasks, that I accepted these Special jobs quickly. Maybe others like working in the TG, but I wanted another path.

Yeah, i'm just in it for the cool looking armor i saw.

[Tommy6860]

Yrkoon wrote...

I have a question. is regen-gear/regen-enchantments really worth it? Do you actually *get* that regeneration during battle, or just afterwords? Because I once enchanted my armor with +60% health regen, then quaffed a potion of +90% regeneration, then waded in to fight Krosis, or some other nasty dragon priest and my health bar didn't replenish a single millimeter after I took damage and hid behind a rock to try and recuperate.

You don't get it doing actual battle perse, but as long as you have a quick pause of not engaging (attacking) and not taking hits, you'll get the regen effect. I haven't really looked into the timer that operates when one regens after the point of taking a hit and not hitting back. I use "Stoneflesh" spell on myself, then chug health and magicka potions if I can. That way, I can use enchanted armors that increase my attack powers.

[DragonRageGT]

Yrkoon wrote...

I have a question. is regen-gear/regen-enchantments really worth it? Do you actually *get* that regeneration during battle, or just afterwords? Because I once enchanted my armor with +60% health regen, then quaffed a potion of +90% regeneration, then waded in to fight Krosis, or some other nasty dragon priest and my health bar didn't replenish a single millimeter after I took damage and hid behind a rock to try and recuperate.

I noticed that too. I think there's a difference on regen speed in and out of combat, pretty much like TW2. That's why I don't have Health regen on my gear. I mostly use magicka for Healing spells so that's after combat. But Stamina does regen during combat, albeit slower than when out of it.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Can anyone point me to the best vendor for soul gems?

I don't know who's the best individual vendor, but definitely check out the College. Most of the senior Mages double as Mage vendors, so you've got access to a whole bunch of soul gems at once, not to mention the best Magic trainers.

----

Okay, I've got it and this is very spotty on the whole "is it possible?" factor, but I've never liked the idea of Attributes being reduced to Health, Magicka and Stamina. The skills and Perk system is fine, but there is quite a bit they leave out which can be messed around with in terms of using Attributes to define a character.

I tend to think of Attributes as the intrinsic qualities of a character, while Skills represent how good they are at carrying out certain tasks. Perks fill the role of special abilities and bonuses that come as a result of proficiency in those skills.

To that end, I've come up with a broad character system concept that's loosely inspired on the Storytelling System as seen in Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. It's not particularly close to how it works, but I liked the idea of categorizing at least.

On level up, instead of picking from Health, Magicka and Stamina, you pick from a variety of choices that bleed into the Skill system and a lot of aspects of your character.

You first pick a Facet of your character you want to develop:

- Physical: +12 HP, +8 SP, +2% Movement Speed, +10 Carry Weight.
- Mental: +20 MP, +10% to MP Regen, +5% to HP/MP Regen.
- Social: -10% to Bounty Prices, -10% to Training Costs, I'll also see if I can get reductions for House Prices and scale up gold rewards for quests too.

Once you pick a Facet to develop, you then pick a Specialization to define your area of expertise.

- Combat
- Magic
- Stealth

When you've picked that Specialization, you add a small bonus to the relevant Skills within the Specialization that correspond with each Facet.

For example, if you pick the Mental Facet and choose to Specialize in Combat, you'll gain an extra 2 points in the Block and Heavy Armor Skills. If you choose the Social Facet with the Stealth Specialization, you get an extra 2 points in Speech and Alchemy. I've got it all mapped out already.

To counterbalance getting skills and stats up too quickly (spamming Mental + Combat Growth would make for an OP Alteration/Destruction Mage early on), I plan to make it so that you can only choose Facets and Specializations to develop every two levels, not every level. This is designed concurrently with Perk selection every two levels.

So, one level, you'd choose a Facet and Specialization, then the next, you'd choose a Perk. To support this (and not having underpowered characters), I also plan to overhaul the Perk system so that there's less X is 25% more powerful type Perks meaning that the Perk Tree is filled with You can now do X or Y that you couldn't do before type Perks instead. This would be accomplished by making Skills more dominant in doing the basic things: Damage, Armor, etc[/i] to make up for cutting the +20% type Perks.

To add to that, I'd also add Perks as rewards for completing certain questlines, such as the factional questlines, or becoming a Thane. This would bring the amount of Perks closer to equilibrium with the vanilla version (though still less overall) and rewards people who actually go out and do important stuff rather than people who just grind on Iron Daggers.

Finally, you get an extra 5 [i]Perk Points on Character Creation, along with maybe a wad of gold after Helgen. Possibly changes to the Racial bonuses to make them more useful. Perhaps bonuses to HP/MP/SP. The early levels would probably be tough, so it would be best to make things easier on that part.

----

Now, I know for global settings, I can already do most of the above. I can set Bounty Rates, or Training Cost Rates, or Carry Weight Rates or adjust how the skills scale in doing basic things. The challenge is somehow getting it all to work within the context of a repeatable level-up sequence, without totally ****ing up game balance, or game stability. Which honestly, I don't have the slightest clue how to do.

In the end, it's not perfect but it's closer to what I want for how the character system works.

Skills that define how good you are at doing something, Perks that are exactly that: Perks, rewards and bonuses for your hard work in doing X or Y. All that, combined with not necessarily Attributes, but a way to better define the character with some depth rather than the very gamey Health, Magicka and Stamina.

Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

Modifié par mrcrusty, 22 décembre 2011 - 04:30 .

[Tommy6860]

mrcrusty wrote...

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

Can anyone point me to the best vendor for soul gems?

I don't know who's the best individual vendor, but definitely check out the College. Most of the senior Mages double as Mage vendors, so you've got access to a whole bunch of soul gems at once, not to mention the best Magic trainers.

----

Okay, I've got it and this is very spotty on the whole "is it possible?" factor, but I've never liked the idea of Attributes being reduced to Health, Magicka and Stamina. The skills and Perk system is fine, but there is quite a bit they leave out which can be messed around with in terms of using Attributes to define a character.

I tend to think of Attributes as the intrinsic qualities of a character, while Skills represent how good they are at carrying out certain tasks. Perks fill the role of special abilities and bonuses that come as a result of proficiency in those skills.

To that end, I've come up with a broad character system concept that's loosely inspired on the Storytelling System as seen in Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. It's not particularly close to how it works, but it's something.

On level up, instead of picking from Health, Magicka and Stamina, you pick from a variety of choices that bleed into the Skill system and a lot of aspects of your character.

You first pick a Facet of your character you want to develop:

- Physical: +12 HP, +8 SP, +2% Movement Speed, +10 Carry Weight.
- Mental: +20 MP, +10% to MP Regen, +5% to HP/MP Regen.
- Social: -10% to Bounty Prices, -10% to Training Costs, I'll also see if I can get reductions for House Prices and scale up gold rewards for quests too.

Once you pick a Facet to develop, you then pick a Specialization to define your area of expertise.

- Combat
- Magic
- Stealth

When you've picked that Specialization, you add a small bonus to the relevant Skills within the Specialization that correspond with each Facet.

For example, if you pick the Mental Facet and choose to Specialize in Combat, you'll gain an extra 2 points in the Block and Heavy Armor Skills. If you choose the Social Facet with the Stealth Specialization, you get an extra 2 points in Speech and Alchemy. I've got it all mapped out already.

To counterbalance getting skills and stats up too quickly (spamming Mental + Combat Growth would make for an OP Alteration/Destruction Mage early on), I plan to make it so that you can only choose Facets and Specializations to develop every two levels, not every level. This is designed concurrently with Perk selection every two levels.

So, one level, you'd choose a Facet and Specialization, then the next, you'd choose a Perk. To support this (and not having underpowered characters), I also plan to overhaul the Perk system so that there's less X is 25% more powerful type Perks meaning that the Perk Tree is filled with You can now do X or Y that you couldn't do before type Perks instead. This would be accomplished by making Skills more dominant in doing the basic things: Damage, Armor, etc[/i] to make up for cutting the +20% type Perks.

To add to that, I'd also add Perks as rewards for completing certain questlines, such as the factional questlines, or becoming a Thane. This would bring the amount of Perks closer to equilibrium with the vanilla version (though still less overall) and rewards people who actually go out and do important stuff rather than people who just grind on Iron Daggers.

Finally, you get an extra 5 [i]Perk Points on Character Creation, along with maybe a wad of gold after Helgen. Possibly changes to the Racial bonuses to make them more useful. The early levels would probably be tough, so it would be best to make things easier on that part.

----

Now, I know for global settings, I can already do most of the above. I can set Bounty Rates, or Training Cost Rates, or Carry Weight Rates or adjust how the skills scale in doing basic things. The challenge is somehow getting it all to work within the context of a repeatable level-up sequence, without totally ****ing up game balance, or game stability. Which honestly, I don't have the slightest clue how to do.

In the end, it's not perfect but it's closer to what I want for how the character system works.

Skills that define how good you are at doing something, Perks that are exactly that: Perks, rewards and bonuses for your hard work in doing X or Y. All that, combined with not necessarily Attributes, but a way to better define the character with some depth rather than the very gamey Health, Magicka and Stamina.

Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

Well, I'd just say bring back (as least) Oblivion's system, because it forced you to go along with what class and attributes you chose to be the primary ones, whiile making the others secondary. That way, the secondary ones build up very slowly and you tend to stick with building the ones you chose. Skyrim removing this, while simplsitic, already does most of what you suggest, they are just done in the world itself, though by discovery, which is cool, I actually like that.

If you want to be a mage, you already get those bonuses when you choose the mage stone, and so on with the other classes (right after you leave Helgen).  If one sticks with their choice, they build the other skills a bit more slowly (except for two that ramp up fast no matter). This way, when one levels, they are going to tend to stick with advancing the skill sets of the class they chose. The issue overall with Skyrim, is that most other skills still level faster if you use them, even though they would be secondary to their class of choice. Also, you can go back to that place where the mage stone is and change it to another class setting. The enemies don't get to do that !


There is a mod out there that changes this basically along the way you want, right now.

The main thing I really dislike about Skyrim's system, is that it is too easy to build up all skills, even against that of your class, but it serves the advertising that you can be what you want anytime you want. What the system should do, since it gives so much freedom to be whatever you want with how fast one can level, is that, when you begin leveling skills that fit your class, or a few others that don't, that it makes the other skills level more slowly even if you use them. For example, if you stuck with conjuration, smithing, and restoration and then started using one-handed as a mage class and they build up faster because you use them, trying to build the others up because they were not what you were trying to achieve, take much longer when you want to build them, because levels of the ones you used most are high, making the ratio of leveling the others much larger..

On a side note, I really really mis spellmaking, that was a serious mistake to omit that abiliity. Also, I don't like the perk tree layout. Some perks I would really use, cannot be chosen until I have unlocked other perks in-line. I don't mind having those in-line that reflect novice thru master ranks, that is OK, but not the others. I also have a mod that lets me choose whatever perk I want.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Oblivion's system was broken though. It'd encourage you to pick crap for Major Skills and let you develop your Minor ones instead. Since the game scaled in level (Skyrim still does this though not nearly as badly), actually playing properly caused you to get comparatively weaker over time.

I think Skyrim did a lot better on that part. But it's still not addressing the primary imbalance between Skills, Perks and Attributes though which is my main beef. I've always been a "stats is the representation of my character since I can't type in egotistic utilitarian War Cleric and let the game do all the work" kinda guy. Maybe it makes me an RPG grognard, but I've always felt that a good statistics system (used appropriately) is necessary for good roleplaying.

In terms of bonuses and the like, that's really not the point. The point is to enforce an equilibrium of Skills, Perks and Attributes. Skills represent how good your character is at a particular task, Perks represent special abilities and Attributes represent your character's instrinsic qualities. The Skill bonuses are just there to help make the concept more integrated and not segregated.

By enforcing different bonuses on level up based on (slightly) more complex concepts (Facets and Specializations), as opposed to HP/MP/SP, you can effect more of the character's natural capabilities, giving you finer control of character development.

For example, you can have two Assassins, one who focused on the Physical Facet of his character, the other focused the Social Facet of his character. If both are confronted with their crimes, the Physical Assassin has a much better chance at running away, since he's got higher Stamina and faster movement speed. Whereas the other has an easier or cheaper time talking his way out of trouble. It's not necessarily ideal, but I feel like it's an improvement.

By having things structured like that, it leaves the Perk and Skills systems to focus on their own parts better instead of picking up the slack.

You've given me an idea though, instead of having the superfluous +20% Perks, you could perhaps drastically lower the XP rate and have +20% XP Perks instead. So in a way, you'd be enforcing a Major/Minor system too.

Personally, I'm okay with the Perk Trees. I think for the most part, they are done really well. I much prefer them being based on Skill rather than Level, at least.

Also, yes I really miss Spellmaking too. That would've been one feature that they should've kept in.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 22 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I prefer keeping it simple myself.

Is it really that vital that we must keep to the old STR, CON, DEX, INT. WIS. CHA scores though?
The more complexity you pump into a system the more open it becomes to failure, exploitation, or confusion.

With just the simple MP/HP/SP breakdown you build like you want and how you want as you go. I dont have to be paranoid like I was in the Oblivion setting.

Its like complaining about regenerating health over med pack system.
The Skyrim model gives the devs a good idea exactly what someone at the level would be capable of handling, knowing where their skills and "abilities" are at roughly.
Where as in Morrowind or Oblivion two people at level 20 could range all the way between demi-god to newb skill set wise.

Now Skyrim still has issues where you can level non-combat skills to much, but overall I think it has the more water tight system as it were.

[Addai]

The Hierophant wrote...

Should i finish the Thieves Guild 4 special jobs i just got, or should i save them for after the guild's main quest line?

I would just do them as you're in that neighborhood.  You can complete most of the quest line without them, but for "full" completion you do need to do the radiant quests.

[Tommy6860]

mrcrusty wrote...

Oblivion's system was broken though. It'd encourage you to pick crap for Major Skills and let you develop your Minor ones instead. Since the game scaled in level (Skyrim still does this though not nearly as badly), actually playing properly caused you to get comparatively weaker over time.

Nope, for example, the game's NPCs scaled only so far, where the PC can keep going and not get weaker. It is possible, though it takes a long time, to get to level 55, while all enemies can go no higher than level 26. I don't call that getting weaker at all. But, I didn't expereince any of what you describe. If I chose my 7 major skills, then chose the class and sign that fits them, they leveled properly. The issue was is that it was too complex for most and choosing the correct ones to fit the class actually mattered, Skyrim removed the choices that mattered by leveling everythign regardless.. I liked it in Oblivion.  Daggerfall made Oblivion's system seem simplistic.

I think Skyrim did a lot better on that part. But it's still not addressing the primary imbalance between Skills, Perks and Attributes though which is my main beef. I've always been a "stats is the representation of my character since I can't type in egotistic utilitarian War Cleric and let the game do all the work".

I disagree, Skyrim did it worse by making all skills too easy to level up. Seriously, I am a mage and playing just 10 hours into the game, I was at level 26, my enchanting was 100, smithing 90, conjuration 70 and one-handed was 70, because I can level them all up no matter what class I chose just because I used them a lot. Perks are only add-on to effects that you can choose. The perk system is broken somewhat, because it doesn't allow for me to build the skills I want because they cannot be unlocked until a certain level. By then, I just chose other things and leveled up other skills, because the skills I already started with are powerful enough. I was so powerful that choosing a perk of any kind was over-kill. I two-shotted a dragon sneaking on it at level 15, because using my bow so much leveled it up fast, though it was not in my class' list of skill-sets. Oblivion would have never allowed this.

In terms of bonuses and the like, that's really not the point. The point is to enforce an equilibrium of Skills, Perks and Attributes. Skills represent how good your character is at something, Perks represent special abilities and Attributes represent your character's instrinsic qualities.

That is the point, Skyrim makes it too easy to level all skills no matter the class you choose for the sole purpose of simplifying gameplay. It really makes choosing a class a useless tool once one sees that everything levels up because they use them and their choice doesn't matter, you can just do as you want and level up as you want. I also think it seriously takes away from role playing, since it makes choosing a class nearly worthless when one can level up all skills easily.

At least Oblivion as terrible as the story and mechanics were, forced one to stick with their choices of class, I really don't see that a broken as much as making the player stick with the consequences.

By enforcing different bonuses on level up based on (slightly) more complex concepts (Facets and Specializations), as opposed to HP/MP/SP, you can effect more of the character's natural capabilities, giving you finer control of character development.

I can go with this, but Skyrim doesn't allow for this. What you describe was essentially in DA:O. Hopefullly, the modders will come up with something along those lines, but I get the feeling that would be a major undertaking.

For example, you can have two Assassins, one who focused on the Physical Facet of his character, the other focused the Social Facet of his character. If both are confronted with their crimes, the Physical Assassin has a much better chance at running away, since he's got higher Stamina and faster movement speed. Whereas the other has an easier or cheaper time talking his way out of trouble. Which goes back to the kind of concept the player has created for the character.

By having things structured like that, it leaves the Perk and Skills systems to focus on their own parts better instead of picking up the slack.

It comes down to the lack of attributes, that's really all it is, too much was removed. Yet those facets existed in Oblivion, something you stated was broken. If I chose to be a thief, I was rewarded with acrobatics and athletics and bonuses to those attributes that could run faster. Not only that, I could charm more easily. Since Skyrim is essentially running on an updated verision of the Gamebryo engine, adding more attributes could be possible.

You've given me an idea though, instead of having the superfluous +20% Perks, you could perhaps drastically lower the XP rate and have +20% XP Perks instead. So in a way, you'd be enforcing a Major/Minor system too.

Personally, I'm okay with the Perk Trees. I think for the most part, they are done really well. I much prefer them being based on Skill rather than Level, at least.

Also, yes I really miss Spellmaking too. That would've been one feature that they should've kept in.

I agree with basing the perks on skill than level. But, I think they need to allow for the ability to choose the perk of their choice outside of the novice thru master strings, instead of not being able to get to that choice because their level is too low. It either forces the player to hoard perk effects, or to use them where they don't want. The mod to choose any you want is cool though.

I just think that rewarding the player to level up all skills easily is a mistake, but that is my opinion only. It doesn't force consequences to the character build choices. The idea you just thought about, basically exist in the game as it is, it is just that they still level up too fast. If they don't level them up fast enough because they are of an opposing class, they can change their class by clicking on any one of the "Standing Stones".

Modifié par Tommy6860, 22 décembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Nope, for example, the game's NPCs scaled only so far, where the PC can keep going and not get weaker. It is possible, though it takes a long time, to get to level 55, while all enemies can go no higher than level 26. I don't call that getting weaker at all. But, I didn't expereince any of what you describe. If I chose my 7 major skills, then chose the class and sign that fits them, they leveled properly. The issue was is that it was too complex for most and choosing the correct ones to fit the class actually mattered, Skyrim removed the choices that mattered by leveling everythign regardless.. I liked it in Oblivion.  Daggerfall made Oblivion's system seem simplistic.

You could metagame the system. Since Oblivion relied on Major Skills to increase in order to level up, you stack crap Skills as Major ones, then level the Minor ones till the cows came home. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it's theoretically possible to get a variety of skills to 100 without ever leveling up. I agree with Daggerfall. I've played it.

Tommy6860 wrote...
I disagree, Skyrim did it worse by making all skills too easy to level up. Seriously, I am a mage and playing just 10 hours into the game, I was at level 26, my enchanting was 100, smithing 90, conjuration 70 and one-handed was 70, because I can level them all up no matter what class I chose just because I used them a lot.

That's not really here nor there though. I agree with you that the skills are too easy to level up, but it doesn't have much to do with the ideas I've laid down.

Tommy6860 wrote...

That is the point, Skyrim makes it too easy to level all skills no matter the class you choose for the sole purpose of simplifying gameplay. It really makes choosing a class a useless tool once one sees that everything levels up because they use them and their choice doesn't matter, you can just do as you want and level up as you want. I also think it seriously takes away from role playing, since it makes choosing a class nearly worthless when one can level up all skills easily.

To be fair, I already use a mod that equalizes the amount of skills needed to level over time while drastically reducing the skill growth. Meaning that at later levels, you won't be increasing a stack of skills per level and that the whole process is slower. At level 41, my highest Skill is only at 80. So I never really had that problem.

Tommy6860 wrote...
I can go with this, but Skyrim doesn't allow for this. What you describe was essentially in DA:O. Hopefulll the modder will come up with something along those lines, but I get the feeling that would be a major undertaking.

The hope is that I am that modder. I actually plan to carry out these ideas, if they are possible. It's why I probably send more time tinkering with Skyedit than I do actually playing. Many of the variables and aspects can be changed but getting it to all work in the context of a leveling system is... well... ?

Tommy6860 wrote...
It comes down to the lack of attributes, that's really all it is, too uch was removed. Yet those facets existed in Oblivion, something you stated was broken. If I chose to be a thief, I was rewarded with acrobatics and athletics and bonuses to those attributes that could run faster. Not only that, I could charm more easily. Since Skyrim is essentially running on an updated verision of the Gamebryo engine, adding more attributes could be possible.

Yes, it is about Attributes. Oblivion was broken in how it handled level up mechanics. Otherwise, it wasn't so bad.

But AFAIK, the only Attributes they've got left in the system is Health, Magicka, Stamina and Movement (?)

They actually took out the rest. So basically, how can you create a system that emulates Attributes to provide a good balance of Attributes, Skills and Perks for maximum RP, without going too far beyond what's currently in the game?

What is surprising is that Attributes were taken out but there is a tonne of Fallout 3 settings and references still left inside Skyrim.esm. Lol.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I prefer keeping it simple myself.

Is it really that vital that we must keep to the old STR, CON, DEX, INT. WIS. CHA scores though?

It's not really all that though. It's Physical/Mental/Social and Combat/Magic/Stealth. The latter is already ingrained into the current Skyrim system. It nets a small bonus to skills on level up. And the former is really easy to grasp.

Focusing on the Physical Facet of your character nets you bonuses that relate to Physical Acitivity (HP/SP, Weight, Speed, etc), focusing on the Mental Facet of your character nets you Mental Acitivity bonuses (MP, Regen Rates, etc) and focusing on the Social Facet of your charcter nets you Social Activity bonuses (Training Costs, Bounty Costs, Housing Costs, etc)

The character building is a bit more open and allows for more variance in builds. Not every character has the same speed, or recovers from wounds as quickly, or is able to receive Training on the cheap, etc.

To be quite honest, I don't see it as complex at all. If anything, it's still "dumbed down" compared to Oblivion and Morrowind, let alone Daggerfall. It's just less streamlined and slightly more RP friendly than Skyrim's HP/MP/SP paradigm.

-----

I should probably flowchart my concept since it seems that it's being a little misunderstood.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 22 décembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[DragonRageGT]

I like that Skills can raise fast in Skyrim. But gaining level ups is not the same as being able to put perks on some Skills that a character might want to have as primary, if the level up is gained through other skills. I think that keeps the game well balanced.

And at some point, it stops making a difference on level up. One skill level has not the same effect on the char exp bar on char level 10 and char level 60. And if we get those secondary skills to level 100, like I have with lockpicking (with no Perk points spent on it), for instance, then there will be no exp bar increase anymore from opening locks and I still have many locks to open and I don't really mind I don't gain level from it.

To be comfortable with my warrior-type char in Master diff I had to concentrate on the skills I really wanted to increase and spend Perk points. If I hadn't leveled Two Handed from start and spent every possible Perk point on that tree (for Greatsword and Generic only), my char would have a real hard time later on.

I like these Facets thing you're suggesting, Crusty, but will they make the game more fun? If yes, then let us have it! =)

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[naughty99]

mrcrusty wrote...
You could metagame the system. Since Oblivion relied on Major Skills to increase in order to level up, you stack crap Skills as Major ones, then level the Minor ones till the cows came home.

Actually, it seems as though you are practically supposed to metagame Oblivion's system.

Out of my friends who have played Oblivion quite a bit, I don't even know of anyone who actually used the relevant skills they wanted to specialize in as their Major Skills. Most pick skills they use infrequently for the Major Skills

With vanilla Oblivion you want to level up as slowly as possible.

Even after installing balancing mods like FCOM and Duke Patricks, the leveling is improved but you still have to metagame quite a bit if you want to get your +5 health, magicka or stamina at each level up.

mrcrusty wrote...

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it's theoretically possible to get a variety of skills to 100 without ever leveling up.

Of course it's possible, simply don't go to sleep until you are ready to level up.

Modifié par naughty99, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:02 .

[Redneck1st]

RageGT wrote...

I like that Skills can raise fast in Skyrim. But gaining level ups is not the same as being able to put perks on some Skills that a character might want to have as primary, if the level up is gained through other skills. I think that keeps the game well balanced.

And at some point, it stops making a difference on level up. One skill level has not the same effect on the char exp bar on char level 10 and char level 60. And if we get those secondary skills to level 100, like I have with lockpicking (with no Perk points spent on it), for instance, then there will be no exp bar increase anymore from opening locks and I still have many locks to open and I don't really mind I don't gain level from it.

To be comfortable with my warrior-type char in Master diff I had to concentrate on the skills I really wanted to increase and spend Perk points. If I hadn't leveled Two Handed from start and spent every possible Perk point on that tree (for Greatsword and Generic only), my char would have a real hard time later on.

I like these Facets thing you're suggesting, Crusty, but will they make the game more fun? If yes, then let us have it! =)

i would tend to agree with you on what your saying here. After all there are several trees for which I don't have any perks at all in all of the magic  ones, light armor  and 2 handed to name a few. Reason being is that I don't use them so why should I spend perks on something for which I don't use. I've got over 700 hours into the game between 2 PCs and I thing I've used maybe a dozen spells in all of that time. Heck even when you do the mages guild you don't really have to know much about magic and you can become Arch Mage.

My Redguard has yet to make it to Riften or Markarth this play through. But I did make it to Blackreach this time through. And not via the main quest line but another quest that I ended up with.  I've only completed one faction line this time so far and that was the mages.

Now someone was asking for soul gems. Check your various vendors Misc. area on the stuff that they sell. I know that the vendor in Riverwood always has some. both filled and unfilled. And I believe the one shop in Markarth as well as for the college. Also when you're exploring pick them up as well. Those dwarven ruins when you destro them various mechanical items check them as lots of them have vaious soul gems.

As for myself I don't buy them as I've got plenty of of them sored at home most are filled with various size souls. Not to mention that I took the perk in enchanting that 5% of the soul  of no human kills fills my weapon in hand.

What gets me is why do we have petty soul gems in the game? As when I have to recharge my weapons I never get the option to use a petty soul gem even though I could have 50 filled petty soul gems in my inventory.

[DragonRageGT]

naughty99 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...
You could metagame the system. Since Oblivion relied on Major Skills to increase in order to level up, you stack crap Skills as Major ones, then level the Minor ones till the cows came home.

Actually, it seems as though you are practically supposed to metagame Oblivion's system.

Out of my friends who have played Oblivion quite a bit, I don't even know of anyone who actually used the relevant skills they wanted to specialize in as their Major Skills. Most pick skills they use infrequently for the Major Skills

With vanilla Oblivion you want to level up as slowly as possible.

Even after installing balancing mods like FCOM and Duke Patricks, the leveling is improved but you still have to metagame quite a bit if you want to get your +5 health, magicka or stamina at each level up.

mrcrusty wrote...

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it's theoretically possible to get a variety of skills to 100 without ever leveling up.

Of course it's possible, simply don't go to sleep until you are ready to level up.

Heh.. I played vanilla Oblivion and both my chars reached lvl 54 and they had their main skills as Major. I never had trouble with the level scaling. I actually like it. Glass armors galore! hehe 500 hours each char, one finished MQ, other closed all 60 oblivion gates before continuing the MQ after a point and she never finished it. =) (I had only cosmetics mods like better bodies/faces, bow strings, bag of holding, etc.)

I never worried about getting +5 attributes on level ups but I did got them sometimes. I hate the acrobatics/athletics training though. Easier to put a tape on the keyboard and let the char facing a wall.

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:11 .

[DragonRageGT]

LOL. I simply HAD to explore all Blackreach right? Before going into any transition, exploring the whole cave. I only went up the lifts to open the gates and have them in my map, just in case. And what I see when I go up one of the lifts? Alduin res'ing a Dragon. So, ok, just a quick run there and back to the lift. When I kill the Dragon, the shadows of an ancient ruins lay ahead of me. Now I HAVE to go inside and grab another Word of Power! Then back to the lift... perhaps...

This game breaks all my planning as I go...

Bah. There is no door to the ruins. Just a Master chest and some skeletons... aw well, there's a Fort I haven't discovered yet very close to it... the last location "undiscovered  on my map... then Blackreach again! =)

Modifié par RageGT, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Lux]

Enhancements...? Enhancements!

So, on my second playthrough, I've decided to use some chea... er... game enhancements that would convenience me without breaking the game experience (too much) and avoid console commands altogether.

1) Lacking the tools for a bag of holding (yet), here's the next best thing: the weightless items.
2) Let's face it, jumping sucks in Skyrim; to fix that, there's the jump higher mod which is just about perfect at 130.
3) And finally, lockpicking, probably made a little too easy.

What mods you find particularly useful?

[Redneck1st]

One of the things for which I don't agree with in Skyrim is that when you equip an item for which gives you fortify Stamina bonus that it don't also increase your carry weight. You only get a slight improvement to your carry weight if you take stamina when you level up. Also the fact that you can only wear one ring when you've got 2 hands


EDIT:

Merkar- I'm currently using only one mod so far and that is one done by someone named Val in regards to smithing which I like as it allows you to make your own arrows and you can convert your gold ingots into septums and various other things as well.

Modifié par Redneck1st, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[naughty99]

Redneck1st wrote...

What gets me is why do we have petty soul gems in the game? As when I have to recharge my weapons I never get the option to use a petty soul gem even though I could have 50 filled petty soul gems in my inventory.

You can use whatever button on your keyboard is mapped to the "down" or "back" button in order to scroll down the list of all the categories of filled soul gems you are carrying before selecting one to charge your item.

(I think the default "down"/"back" direction is mapped to the "S" button, but I use a NumPad for directional movement.)

[DragonRageGT]

Merkar wrote...

Enhancements...? Enhancements!

So, on my second playthrough, I've decided to use some chea... er... game enhancements that would convenience me without breaking the game experience (too much) and avoid console commands altogether.

1) Lacking the tools for a bag of holding (yet), here's the next best thing: the weightless items.
2) Let's face it, jumping sucks in Skyrim; to fix that, there's the jump higher mod which is just about perfect at 130.
3) And finally, lockpicking, probably made a little too easy.

What mods you find particularly useful?

Jum Higher for me. I have no problems with weight. I like the encumberance system much better in Skyrim than in Oblivion. Particularly because I always have a pack mule... err.. companion/wife with me just for carrying the extra stuff! =)