37007 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Warheadz wrote...

Also, one problem I had with Oblivion was that almost all locations were hostile dungeons. Don't get me wrong, it was fun, but I'd like it if I didn't know beforehand that everything will attack me.
And also, the exploration and all was fun, but it quickly became meaningless as you already had all the good stuff. In my opinion.

Has there been any word regarding these things?

I don't think there's been any word of this as of yet. But the newer Fallout games have quite a few non hostile locations. I'd imagine Skyrim would have a few of those, too.

I wouldn't mind having less hostile locations. What I'd also want is better dungeons that require a mix of stealth, magic and/or and creative puzzle solving. Not stealth as in stealth kill or Magic as in "Lightning bolt!". But actually sneaking without getting caught or using spells to help solve puzzles and get from point a to point b. Oblivion had this in some of the quests (particularly DB), but not much of it in it's dungeon crawling.

I know that they are working on handcrafted dungeons for Skyrim, but that might not necessarily equate to something I'd enjoy. If it weren't so buggy and clunky, I'd probably be talking up Daggerfall's dungeons right now.. and most of them are randomly generated.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 30 juin 2011 - 05:21 .

[naughty99]

Warheadz wrote...

Also, one problem I had with Oblivion was that almost all locations were hostile dungeons. Don't get me wrong, it was fun, but I'd like it if I didn't know beforehand that everything will attack me.
And also, the exploration and all was fun, but it quickly became meaningless as you already had all the good stuff. In my opinion.

Has there been any word regarding these things?

I doubt there will be any non-hostile dungeons, but who knows.

What has been confirmed, however, is that every living creature in the wilderness is no longer out to get you. Animals and creatures living in the forest are doing their own thing, not looking for you.

For example, wolves hunt mammoths, foxes hunt birds and rabbits, giants and mammoths won't attack you unless you ****** them off, and you can even talk to giants and get quests from them.

150+ dungeons 
100+ "points of interest" (exterior encounter areas, one of which includes a group of Necromancers at an altar - hopefully they won't be hostile, perhaps they might even be joinable this time)
5 major cities
a number of smaller towns, villages and settlements
9 Holds, large regions of Skyrim, similar to counties, each with unique reputation and bounty system, so you can be a wanted criminal in one hold and everyone will still be friendly in another hold

Modifié par naughty99, 30 juin 2011 - 05:25 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

mrcrusty wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Also, one problem I had with Oblivion was that almost all locations were hostile dungeons. Don't get me wrong, it was fun, but I'd like it if I didn't know beforehand that everything will attack me.
And also, the exploration and all was fun, but it quickly became meaningless as you already had all the good stuff. In my opinion.

Has there been any word regarding these things?

I don't think there's been any word of this as of yet. But the newer Fallout games have quite a few non hostile locations. I'd imagine Skyrim would have a few of those, too.

I wouldn't mind having less hostile locations. What I'd also want is better dungeons that require a mix of stealth, magic and/or and creative puzzle solving. Not stealth as in stealth kill or Magic as in "Lightning bolt!". But actually sneaking without getting caught or using spells to help solve puzzles and get from point a to point b. Oblivion had this in some of the quests (particularly DB), but not much of it in it's dungeon crawling.

I know that they are working on handcrafted dungeons for Skyrim, but that might not necessarily equate to something I'd enjoy. If it weren't so buggy and clunky, I'd probably be talking up Daggerfall's dungeons right now.. and most of them are randomly generated.

About hand crafted dungeons... Why wouldn't these be hand crafted in Skyrim? All of them were hand crafted in Oblivion as well. You can see that for yourself in the construction set. Or maybe I didn't get what you meant. Are they going back to Daggerfall? That would surprise me.

This is how it worked in Oblivion: The walls, floors, ceilings, traps, vegetation, etc. were made of standard parts with lots of variations. In the construction set you could build dungeons (or houses, cellars, castles, landscapes, etc.) by using those parts much like Lego by simply dragging and dropping those things in place. Fun to do, BTW. Sometimes Beth screwed up a bit, in which case some parts didn't connect perfectly, but that was rare (considering the thousands of parts used). You can see (and edit) every location in the construction set. None of those were randomly generated.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 juin 2011 - 05:56 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

None of them are randomly generated on the spot, if that's what you're getting at.

They were mostly created through the use of procedural tools during development, whereas the dungeons in Morrowind for example, were all handcrafted. There is a stack of information about this on the web, as it's one of the biggest concerns and criticisms that Bethesda has recognised from Oblivion.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 30 juin 2011 - 05:59 .

[naughty99]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

About hand crafted dungeons... Why wouldn't these be hand crafted in Skyrim? All of them were hand crafted in Oblivion as well. You can see that for yourself in the construction set. Or maybe I didn't get what you meant. Are they going back to Daggerfall? That would surprise me.

This is how it worked in Oblivion: The walls, floors and ceilings were made of standard parts with lots of variations. In the construction set you could build dungeons (or houses, cellars, castles, landscapes, bushes, traps, etc.) by using those parts much like Lego by simply dragging and dropping those things in place. Fun to do, BTW. Sometimes Beth screwed up a bit, in which case some parts didn't connect perfectly, but that was rare. You can see (and edit) every location in the construction set. None of those were randomly generated.

Oblivion had 54 Ayelid ruins, 55 Forts, 24 mines and 96 caves, for a total of 224 dungeons.

The difference is that Oblivion had one guy doing all 224 dungeons, and dungeons weren't his sole responsibilty. (He was also responsible for the poor areas in towns, like the Waterfront.) If you watch the Making of Oblivion documentary on youtube, you can see this guy working on them. His method is like you describe above, recycling interconnecting tiles as if they were dungeon lego pieces.

Skyrim, on the other hand, has a team of eight dedicated solely to designing the 150+ dungeons, and in his interviews, Todd has stressed that no two dungeons will "look the same," as this was a common complaint  about Oblivion. the dungeons also have more variation in terms of puzzles and traps compared to Oblivion.

Modifié par naughty99, 30 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

mrcrusty wrote...

None of them are randomly generated on the spot, if that's what you're getting at.

They were mostly created through the use of procedural tools during development, whereas the dungeons in Morrowind for example, were all handcrafted. There is a stack of information about this on the web, as it's one of the biggest concerns and criticisms that Bethesda has recognised from Oblivion.

Ah. Cool. I didn't know that. Oblivion felt hand crafted. The community patch fixed a lot of the booboos (floating trees, tunnels that were disconnected, roads that ended in thin air, etc., buggy path finding grids). I also know that they hired a guy who just added the vegetation. He worked on that for 1 or 2 years. Day in and out.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 juin 2011 - 06:05 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Edit: I was right about the dungeons, houses, castles and stuff. Look at this:

http://www.mxac.com....nProcedural.htm.

A good example are the Oblivion gates. These are randomly placed, but each one was crafted by hand. Dungeons were placed and created by hand.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[naughty99]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Edit: I was right about the dungeons, houses, castles and stuff. Look at this:

http://www.mxac.com....nProcedural.htm.

A good example are the Oblivion gates. These are randomly placed, but each one was crafted by hand. Dungeons were placed and created by hand.

The main issue is that there was only one person doing all 224 Oblivion dungeons and they were only one part of his job description. Skyrim has a team of eight people working full-time on 150 dungeons.

/BTW that is a fascinating link - looks like someone's thesis for some kind of game development course.

Modifié par naughty99, 30 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

naughty99 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Edit: I was right about the dungeons, houses, castles and stuff. Look at this:

http://www.mxac.com....nProcedural.htm.

A good example are the Oblivion gates. These are randomly placed, but each one was crafted by hand. Dungeons were placed and created by hand.

The main issue is that there was only one person doing all 224 Oblivion dungeons and they were only one part of his job description. Skyrim has a team of eight people working full-time on 150 dungeons.

/BTW that is a fascinating link - looks like someone's thesis for some kind of game development course.

Yeah. Nice link, right?

I've made a huge fort in a couple of days. It really works much like lego. And the CS we got was a bit buggy. Some stuff didn't work properly - like the path grid generator. So, most of the time I was busy creating one by hand.

Yeah. All those constructs are hopefully improved in Skyrim. It's good to know they hired more people.

[naughty99]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yeah. Nice link, right?

I've made a huge fort in a couple of days. It really works much like lego. And the CS we got was a bit buggy. Some stuff didn't work properly - like the path grid generator. So, most of the time I was busy creating one by hand.

Yeah. All those constructs are hopefully improved in Skyrim. It's good to know they hired more people.

Have you watched this interview with Ryan Stefanelli?

It's a fascinating look at his entire process for designing each dungeon

[AngryFrozenWater]

naughty99 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Yeah. Nice link, right?

I've made a huge fort in a couple of days. It really works much like lego. And the CS we got was a bit buggy. Some stuff didn't work properly - like the path grid generator. So, most of the time I was busy creating one by hand.

Yeah. All those constructs are hopefully improved in Skyrim. It's good to know they hired more people.

Have you watched this interview with Ryan Stefanelli?

It's a fascinating look at his entire process for designing each dungeon

Thanks for that. Cool video.

That thingy I made obviously cannot be compared. I used standard components (so I didn't have to do the actual graphics) and I didn't have structured design goals like the pros have. I am an amateur of course, but it did give me some insight in how some of Oblivion was created.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 juin 2011 - 07:07 .

[AventuroLegendary]

Addai67 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild stand out as being much better than the Fighter's or Mage's Guild in terms of questlines. More originality, better writing, better design.

Maybe Bethesda wants people to play as evil bastards?

Regarding Whodunit, I actually have it in my blog (multiple solutions) as an example of a great quest. Lol.

I liked both the mages' and fighters' guild quests.  That dunmer guy in the fighters' guild, can't remember his name, he was so cool.  Also the twist in the mages' quest line was moving.  None of them drew me in quite like Dark Brotherhood, but still good.

I think that all of the faction questlines were very well made. I LOVED whodunit because I could play it in so many different ways. My problem with the Dark Brotherhood is that whenever you're on a quest, it is as if your character completely switches personalities with a sociopathic serial killer in dialogue. 

I thought Modryn Oreyn (Fighters Guild Dunmer Guy), was a badass. He was a great artist, too. 

[sympathy4saren]

The new dungeons is one of the biggest things I'm looking forward to.
I loved crawling deep into the most inner chambers of all the dungeon types, seeking out loot and farming them. The quests in there were nice, too.

I purposely ignored interior maps so I could get lost, and I did get lost a few times. I usually keep my wits pretty well being a Zelda veteran, but more than once I was truly lost un a fort surrounded by a nest of vampires.

[naughty99]

LegendaryAvenger wrote...

I thought Modryn Oreyn (Fighters Guild Dunmer Guy), was a badass. He was a great artist, too. 

Nice! I've been playing the game for a few years and never noticed that!

What town is he in?

[Captain Crash]

Chorral if I recall. Its in his house. It may only appear once you completed the warriors guild quest because I think he said he paints with his freetime. Maybe not though.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Captain Crash wrote...

Chorral if I recall. Its in his house. It may only appear once you completed the warriors guild quest because I think he said he paints with his freetime. Maybe not though.

I think it appears after you do the specific quest regarding the prisoner. He apparently "draws" it the next day or something. That's near the end of the questline IIRC, so it's close enough I guess.

[sympathy4saren]

Word is that Bethesda isn't going to make dlc unless it is substantive. Expect big expansions for Skyrim.

Lol I guess no horse armor dlc....

[Tommyspa]

2 quick questions. Anything on Werewolves yet? Anything on this fan interview?

[naughty99]

Tommyspa wrote...

2 quick questions. Anything on Werewolves yet? Anything on this fan interview?

Fan interview supposedly coming soon, but obviously it can't come any earlier than when Bethesda's offices re-open on Tuesday. probably some time next week.

no confirmation of werewolves.

Considering the gorgeous character designs and greater complexity of the attack animations in Skyrim, it seems like it would be a major undertaking to develop believable werewolf character designs and attack animations for biting, scratching and overpowering enemies.

Given that it would involve greater complexity compared with, for example, vampires, it might make more sense to incorporate lycanthropy into a DLC.

[Tommyspa]

naughty99 wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

2 quick questions. Anything on Werewolves yet? Anything on this fan interview?

Fan interview supposedly coming soon, but obviously it can't come any earlier than when Bethesda's offices re-open on Tuesday. probably some time next week.

no confirmation of werewolves.

Considering the gorgeous character designs and greater complexity of the attack animations in Skyrim, it seems like it would be a major undertaking to develop believable werewolf character designs and attack animations for biting, scratching and overpowering enemies.

Given that it would involve greater complexity compared with, for example, vampires, it might make more sense to incorporate lycanthropy into a DLC.

Bloodmoon all over again then, if that were the case. When I first saw the new trolls, I had hoped for werewolves in the same fashion, they can beef it out. Skyrim trolls are already vastly better the Oblivion chimps.

[naughty99]

Tommyspa wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

2 quick questions. Anything on Werewolves yet? Anything on this fan interview?

Fan interview supposedly coming soon, but obviously it can't come any earlier than when Bethesda's offices re-open on Tuesday. probably some time next week.

no confirmation of werewolves.

Considering the gorgeous character designs and greater complexity of the attack animations in Skyrim, it seems like it would be a major undertaking to develop believable werewolf character designs and attack animations for biting, scratching and overpowering enemies.

Given that it would involve greater complexity compared with, for example, vampires, it might make more sense to incorporate lycanthropy into a DLC.

Bloodmoon all over again then, if that were the case. When I first saw the new trolls, I had hoped for werewolves in the same fashion, they can beef it out. Skyrim trolls are already vastly better the Oblivion chimps.

So far, I haven't had a chance to play Bloodmoon yet, but it came with my Steam version of Morrowind GOTY, and I hear it is highly acclaimed.

And yes, the trolls in Oblivion looked like they belonged on the island of Dr. Moreau.

[The Baconer]

naughty99 wrote...
So far, I haven't had a chance to play Bloodmoon yet, but it came with my Steam version of Morrowind GOTY, and I hear it is highly acclaimed.

And yes, the trolls in Oblivion looked like they belonged on the island of Dr. Moreau.

Bloodmoon is phenomenal. It's a shame its accompanying DLC, Tribunal, is excrement.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Baconer wrote...

naughty99 wrote...
So far, I haven't had a chance to play Bloodmoon yet, but it came with my Steam version of Morrowind GOTY, and I hear it is highly acclaimed.

And yes, the trolls in Oblivion looked like they belonged on the island of Dr. Moreau.

Bloodmoon is phenomenal. It's a shame its accompanying DLC, Tribunal, is excrement.

I liked Tribunal, it wasn't the best of expansions but Almalexia was a really interesting character.

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah trolls at higher levels are really easy. A few fire or shock spells and they're down for the count. I store tons of troll fat for alchemy. I hope these new ones....ice trolls, pack more power and are more of a challenge.

Werewolves are something I hadn't considered before as an enemy. The frost troll seems to be like a werewolf but I guess we will find out.

I'm curious if Ogres are making a return. They were pretty tough....tougher than most Oblivion world enemies, too. Giant spiders are a nice addition...I wonder if they will try to wrap us in webbing and drink our blood

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 02 juillet 2011 - 06:19 .

[foogoo]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Word is that Bethesda isn't going to make dlc unless it is substantive. Expect big expansions for Skyrim.

Lol I guess no horse armor dlc....

Ya this is great news. They are gonna make less DLC's but each will be more lengthy, close to expansion length. Nice move.