37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Another thing Michael Kirkbride wrote that I noticed was that he dislikes a "United Colors of Benetton" approach to the races in Tamriel. This is why I prefer Windhelm to Whiterun, because Whiterun is a little too much like Mayberry, Skyrim. Whereas Windhelm actually has more Mer and Argonians, but doesn't sugarcoat anything. And I like Revyn Sadri and Niranye.

On another topic- the game has a severe lack of badass elf men. There are women, but the Dunmer men are all sort of weenies and domestic, and there's not a single Altmer male marriage prospect. Nor any redguard, either. Kind of sad.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 janvier 2012 - 11:26 .

[Gotholhorakh]

Nashiktal wrote...

Which is wierd for ulfric considering how he butchered the king. If he was so open to letting people go, he should have done that for the high king, which is inferred he would have been happy to leave skyrim or his position as king had he been talked to.

I think it implies that Ulfric did not do it idly - he probably did it knowing the old traditions absolutely had to be observed for him to become high king, out of necessity rather than butchery for fun.

Ultimately, how on earth could a rebellion based on self rule by nordic people and tradition, work and assume authority without a legitimate claim by those traditions?

No fight, no throne. No throne, no legitimate and political victory. No legitimate and political victory, no removal of the empire. No removal of the empire, no power to prepare for the Thalmor without the Empire hobbling Skyrim.

Since Skyrim was the next logical territory to abandon to the Thalmor to save their own cowardly skins like Hammerfell, the least the Nords should do would be to prepare, and fight without the empire (like hammerfell).

[HoonDing]

I read that Michael Kirkbride envisions Tamriel Elves to be like the ones in Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" series. But I haven't read those books myself.

[Addai]

Joy Divison wrote...

On a completely different note, what are the in-game options available to annoy Maven Black Briar? I *really* despise her and since I'm guessing she is tagged as essential so I can;t just gut her, I want to make sure I do everything I can to irritate/disrupt/impede her.

I am not a member of the thief's guild. So far I helped the guy who wanted to steal Frost and I did the smuggling quest to Ivarsted. Aside from pickpocketing her, what else can I do to make her day miserable?

You could eliminate the Dark Brotherhood, since she's in with them, too.  I think someone said you can kill Sibbi.  You might be able to kill her other kids, too, if you're willing to go that far.

Romlyn Dreth is filching her mead, so you can help him with a delivery.

[billy the squid]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Which is wierd for ulfric considering how he butchered the king. If he was so open to letting people go, he should have done that for the high king, which is inferred he would have been happy to leave skyrim or his position as king had he been talked to.

Since Skyrim was the next logical territory to abandon to the Thalmor to save their own cowardly skins like Hammerfell, the least the Nords should do would be to prepare, and fight without the empire (like hammerfell).

See that's what I find telling about the state of the Empire, it could not win a war against the Aldmeri Dominion, but Redguard of Hammerfell could. And it doesn't seem like the Thalmor were going easy on them either, 5 years of conflict before they withdrew, so the Redguard, apart from being tough as nails, were of more benefit as troops to the Empire than Hammerfell being part of the Empire was of benefit to the Redguard.

It could be that the Thalmor were exhausted from the Great War, but then why attack so early? Unless they underestimated the resolve and strength of the provinces. Which is possibly why the conquest of the provinces might not be so much of a pushover as the Thalmor might believe.

[Captain Crash]

Elhanan wrote...

I like the Imperials due to my personal treatment by those in Riverside and Whiterun, as opposed to the snobbery and bullying seen openly by the Battle-Born Clan. Of course, if you take other paths, then first impressions may be different.

I havent picked a side yet.  Im just delaying the inevitable really being at level 51 now and 160 hours in    However being an Imperial myself I always knew I would side with them.  I still think they are the best hope still rather then a fully independant Skyrim.   

[Addai]

virumor wrote...

I read that Michael Kirkbride envisions Tamriel Elves to be like the ones in Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" series. But I haven't read those books myself.

Just reading the wiki on them, I don't see any similarity, but it's probably subtle stuff since I doubt they'd outright copy things.

And, ugh... it reminds me why I don't really like fantasy.  Unpronounceable names and opaque metaphysical concepts just to tell a story.  Maybe why the pop fantasy in games appeals to me more, especially if there's a political story line.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Captain Crash wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I like the Imperials due to my personal treatment by those in Riverside and Whiterun, as opposed to the snobbery and bullying seen openly by the Battle-Born Clan. Of course, if you take other paths, then first impressions may be different.

I havent picked a side yet.  Im just delaying the inevitable really being at level 51 now and 160 hours in    However being an Imperial myself I always knew I would side with them.  I still think they are the best hope still rather then a fully independant Skyrim.

As far as I can see the Thalmor are not very friendly to the Nords. The Legion sides with them, which doesn't seem smart, because the Thalmor will sooner or later turn against them. If that happens the Stormcloaks will most likely set aside their differences and fight alongside the Legion. At least until the war is over. However, I rather chose the side of the Stormcloaks than the one of the corrupt Legion. As a Nord I owe it to Skyrim.

Playing a Nord now. Everyone is much friendlier to me than when I was playing a dunmer. That's nice for a change.

[Swoo]

I could be wrong here, but the Redguards never had to face the united Dominion army though, right? The Thalmor hit the Empire and the Redguards (around) the same time, with Naarfin going after the Imperials, and Arranelya (sp?) going after the Redguards. After the Empires peace treaty, and the Redguards secession from the Empire, it sounded to me like Arranelya and the Redguards fought each other to a standstill because I thought I read something about Naarfin dividing up his forces forming new staging grounds via the lodges and embassies.

I don't think the Dominion were beaten but rather reached the end result of what they wanted : The Empire weakened, fragmented, and turning on each other. The Redguards now are seriously ticked at the Empire for leaving them out to dry in the war, the Nords are about to rebel over the Talos banning, etc... It probably seemed most prudent to just back off and let them kill each other off for a bit rather than fight an actual war of conquest at the moment.

I'll give you this though, going after the Redguard on their home turf was probably ten times as difficult in practice as it was in theory.

billy the squid wrote...

See that's what I find telling about the state of the Empire, it could not win a war against the Aldmeri Dominion, but Redguard of Hammerfell could. And it doesn't seem like the Thalmor were going easy on them either, 5 years of conflict before they withdrew, so the Redguard, apart from being tough as nails, were of more benefit as troops to the Empire than Hammerfell being part of the Empire was of benefit to the Redguard.

It could be that the Thalmor were exhausted from the Great War, but then why attack so early? Unless they underestimated the resolve and strength of the provinces. Which is possibly why the conquest of the provinces might not be so much of a pushover as the Thalmor might believe.

[billy the squid]

I don't think that the Legion itself is corrupt, they might be, but their soldiers first and foremost. But I agree that the Empire at its heart seems corrupt and decaying. On a slight side note in the Thalmor Embassy in the torture chambers.

(That has to make for a wonderful party conversation "do you know Elenwen?" "No?" "She's a wonderful young lady", "Oh by the way, did I mention she tortured people as a Justicier?"... "what a girl.")

And It's interesting that the Thalmor worry enough, as noted in their dossiers, that a quick end to the war in Skyrim would not be in their interest, so I don't know if the Thalmor would attack whilst the Empire is involved in a civil war, I'd imagine they would be quite content to a mass thier forces whilst the Nords and Imperials fight it out, before knocking off the victor.

[billy the squid]

Swoo wrote...

I could be wrong here, but the Redguards never had to face the united Dominion army though, right? The Thalmor hit the Empire and the Redguards (around) the same time, with Naarfin going after the Imperials, and Arranelya (sp?) going after the Redguards. After the Empires peace treaty, and the Redguards secession from the Empire, it sounded to me like Arranelya and the Redguards fought each other to a standstill because I thought I read something about Naarfin dividing up his forces forming new staging grounds via the lodges and embassies.

I don't think the Dominion were beaten but rather reached the end result of what they wanted : The Empire weakened, fragmented, and turning on each other. The Redguards now are seriously ticked at the Empire for leaving them out to dry in the war, the Nords are about to rebel over the Talos banning, etc... It probably seemed most prudent to just back off and let them kill each other off for a bit rather than fight an actual war of conquest at the moment.

I'll give you this though, going after the Redguard on their home turf was probably ten times as difficult in practice as it was in theory.

Initally yes I believe that the Aldmeri Dominion hit both at the same time, I could be wrong, so please someone correct me if so. The ceeding of Southern Hammerfell and that conflict comes after the White Gold Concord and the truce between the Empire and the Dominion at the end onf the Great War. The ceeding of Hammerfell was one of the terms of the peace treaty which allowed the Empire to survive.

The Redguard split from the Empire as a result and the Aldmeri Dominion invaded resulting in a conflict lasting 5 years before they were forced to withdraw from Hammerfell. Now, I don't know if it was the full force of the Dominion arrayed against the Redguard, probably not as they had just finished a war with the Empire and had other territories to hold. But, I think that it's clear the Thalmor wanted southern Hammerfell, but got a bit of a proverbial bloody nose, politically splitting Redguard from the Empire was also part of the plan I imagine, but I don't think they would have spent 5 years fighting if they really didn't want southern Hammerfell.

[HoonDing]

I'll just leave this here for reference: The Great War

[Barbarossa2010]

happy_daiz wrote...

*SNIP*

For this much debate off and on over one quest line in a video game, I'd have to say Bethesda succeeded in their storytelling. Naysayers can naysay.

I very much agree.  I had a wall of text ready to go for commentary, but I'll just leave it at:  I most definitely agree with you.

[Giggles_Manically]

I just dont understand what is happening right now.
I gave Lydia full on enchanted and upgraded Dragonplate armor.
I did the whole enable/disable trick....and nothing.

So much as one hit knocks her out of a fight for good and I dont know how to fix it.
Anyone got any ideas?

[Captain Crash]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just dont understand what is happening right now.
I gave Lydia full on enchanted and upgraded Dragonplate armor.
I did the whole enable/disable trick....and nothing.

So much as one hit knocks her out of a fight for good and I dont know how to fix it.
Anyone got any ideas?

Yeah I got the same problem with her after I hit the 40's.   She was my buddy throughout the game but I leave her back in Whiterun now because she just gets taken down by everything.  


I think she has a lower level cap to the player which hinders her as a follower the further you go as she stops levelling.  

[Elhanan]

Captain Crash wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I like the Imperials due to my personal treatment by those in Riverside and Whiterun, as opposed to the snobbery and bullying seen openly by the Battle-Born Clan. Of course, if you take other paths, then first impressions may be different.

I havent picked a side yet.  Im just delaying the inevitable really being at level 51 now and 160 hours in    However being an Imperial myself I always knew I would side with them.  I still think they are the best hope still rather then a fully independant Skyrim.   

If you have not picked a side before completeing the Main quest, my advice is don't; leave the Civil War alone. This was the most disappointing event of the many tales for me; just another group of people ignoring what had been accomplished by the Dragonborn, but on a massive scale.

Do I like Skyrim? Absolutely! Do I believe it has severe flaws in writing and implementaion? You betcha!

* First time we see Ulfric, he is gagged to contain the King Killing Shout power that is never used as far as I am aware; unseen as a Stormcloak or Imperial.

* Maven Blackbriar is essential; this immortal , but a fence, client, and other extremley minor characters, too?

* Installation on the PC is among the worst I have experienced; thanks to tips given here helped me avoid another 3-4 hr delay from Steam.

* Companions poke, prod, block, refuse to perform commands, and generally repeat the same lines; not worth exploring.

* Marriages are perks only; certainly not romantic. And I cannot be the only one to have to reload the actual wedding ceremony to find my future spouse before they dash away to wherever.

Skyrim has some intriguing and interesting characters, and offers several nice stories which may be mined along the way. But it is left up to the indv Player to actually perform the smelting, forging, and transmutation that gives the finishing piece it's worth.

And there is not one character I have seen that bests or equals those of our Forum hosts at Bioware. And while some may not like the characters of a Bioware game, they usually do not try to kill you by shoving you into a trap, or off a ledge....

Modifié par Elhanan, 14 janvier 2012 - 01:18 .

[Druss99]

Captain Crash wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just dont understand what is happening right now.
I gave Lydia full on enchanted and upgraded Dragonplate armor.
I did the whole enable/disable trick....and nothing.

So much as one hit knocks her out of a fight for good and I dont know how to fix it.
Anyone got any ideas?

Yeah I got the same problem with her after I hit the 40's.   She was my buddy throughout the game but I leave her back in Whiterun now because she just gets taken down by everything.  


I think she has a lower level cap to the player which hinders her as a follower the further you go as she stops levelling.  

Do followers level? I was under the impression they stayed at whatever level you were at when you met them.

[Elhanan]

Joy Divison wrote...

On a completely different note, what are the in-game options available to annoy Maven Black Briar? I *really* despise her and since I'm guessing she is tagged as essential so I can;t just gut her, I want to make sure I do everything I can to irritate/disrupt/impede her.

I am not a member of the thief's guild. So far I helped the guy who wanted to steal Frost and I did the smuggling quest to Ivarsted. Aside from pickpocketing her, what else can I do to make her day miserable?

Besides what has already been suggested, here are a few ideas:

Ignore the TG rules, and rob her homes, businesses, etc?

Use a Player enhanced  paralyzing agent that will leave her frozen for several hours? Read this one somewhere....

Redecorate her home as you deem fit, be it victims that are her allies, or simply choose silly materials.

As noted, Pickpocket her; makes her angrier than an unsuccesful assassination attempt. One may also Pickpocket her jailbird son apparently, so fill his pockets with her loot; two birds, and one stone....

Use your Pickpocket skill to redress her? May I suggest a certain jester outfit?

Practice your Shouts; take advantage of her immortality, and get creative. Animal Allies anyone?

Conjecturing is fun....

[KenKenpachi]

Druss99 wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just dont understand what is happening right now.
I gave Lydia full on enchanted and upgraded Dragonplate armor.
I did the whole enable/disable trick....and nothing.

So much as one hit knocks her out of a fight for good and I dont know how to fix it.
Anyone got any ideas?

Yeah I got the same problem with her after I hit the 40's.   She was my buddy throughout the game but I leave her back in Whiterun now because she just gets taken down by everything.  


I think she has a lower level cap to the player which hinders her as a follower the further you go as she stops levelling.  

Do followers level? I was under the impression they stayed at whatever level you were at when you met them.

Nah they level most of them have caps though, namely level 30. I think its mostly equal to players level, kinda how enemies level up.

[Captain Crash]

Elhanan wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

I like the Imperials due to my personal treatment by those in Riverside and Whiterun, as opposed to the snobbery and bullying seen openly by the Battle-Born Clan. Of course, if you take other paths, then first impressions may be different.

I havent picked a side yet.  Im just delaying the inevitable really being at level 51 now and 160 hours in    However being an Imperial myself I always knew I would side with them.  I still think they are the best hope still rather then a fully independant Skyrim.   

If you have not picked a side before completeing the Main quest, my advice is don't; leave the Civil War alone. This was the most disappointing event of the many tales for me; just another group of people ignoring what had been accomplished by the Dragonborn, but on a massive scale.

Thanks for the advice there.  Sounds like its certainly something I want to do before I round the main quest off.   The rate im going that still wont be for a few months!   

But hey, it took me about 10 months to do Oblivions main quest so its still faster!! 

Druss99 wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just dont understand what is happening right now.
I gave Lydia full on enchanted and upgraded Dragonplate armor.
I did the whole enable/disable trick....and nothing.

So much as one hit knocks her out of a fight for good and I dont know how to fix it.
Anyone got any ideas?

Yeah I got the same problem with her after I hit the 40's.   She was my buddy throughout the game but I leave her back in Whiterun now because she just gets taken down by everything.  


I think she has a lower level cap to the player which hinders her as a follower the further you go as she stops levelling.  

Do followers level? I was under the impression they stayed at whatever level you were at when you met them.

Really?  Thats interesting and could be plausable.   I saw a spreadsheet a while ago which listed all followers stats and im fairly sure there was a level cap included there as well.   Lydia was sitting at 50 if I recall.  Still maybe you need to be 50 when you recruit her maybe for that to work?

Still I dont know if im honest.   Lydia does go down easily 40+  so you could be right there Druss.  Im sure someone will know the answer

[Barbarossa2010]

Joy Divison wrote...

On a completely different note, what are the in-game options available to annoy Maven Black Briar? I *really* despise her and since I'm guessing she is tagged as essential so I can;t just gut her, I want to make sure I do everything I can to irritate/disrupt/impede her.

I am not a member of the thief's guild. So far I helped the guy who wanted to steal Frost and I did the smuggling quest to Ivarsted. Aside from pickpocketing her, what else can I do to make her day miserable?

Funny you mention this.  I had posted a hundred or so pages ago, how much I hated the fact that with all the abilities my Nord possessed (Dragon slayer, silver tongue devil, leader of Guilds and Colleges, and bane of bandits, Forsworn, Draugr Deathlords and Dragon Priests), he was virtually helpless to take down the Thieves Guild, deal with the Black Briars, or clean up the cesspool of Riften. 

We can do virtually anything across the upteen square kilometers of Skyrim.  We can influence nearly all events to achieve the outcomes we desire, lead all Guilds within the realm if we want, have no equal in combat, no Dwemer Ruin's secret can long stay hidden from us, and we can eradicate the Dark Brotherhood from the face of Tamriel; yet there Riften sits, rotten and corrupt, hopelessly under the thumb of Maven Black Briar (Did I mention how much I can't stand her) and the influence of the Thieves Guild (not that that's a necessarily bad thing for some PCs mind you).

To make myself feel better about it, I've come to the conclusion that it was a deliberate design decision that served the purpose of showing the PC that he/she is not a sitting member of the Nine Divines, and not a design flaw. 

Nothing quite so infuriating at times as plot-armored or teflon coated NPCs.

[Aeowyn]

billy the squid wrote...

I don't think that the Legion itself is corrupt, they might be, but their soldiers first and foremost. But I agree that the Empire at its heart seems corrupt and decaying. On a slight side note in the Thalmor Embassy in the torture chambers.

(That has to make for a wonderful party conversation "do you know Elenwen?" "No?" "She's a wonderful young lady", "Oh by the way, did I mention she tortured people as a Justicier?"... "what a girl.")

And It's interesting that the Thalmor worry enough, as noted in their dossiers, that a quick end to the war in Skyrim would not be in their interest, so I don't know if the Thalmor would attack whilst the Empire is involved in a civil war, I'd imagine they would be quite content to a mass thier forces whilst the Nords and Imperials fight it out, before knocking off the victor.

I'd imagine they want the civil war to go on for as long as possible to dwindle the resources of both sides. It makes it easier for the Thalmor to swoop in and knock them off. They don't want a Stormcloak victory, and I imagine that they pretty much already have the Empire bending at their knees. They can roam freely and have little restrictions and probably have spies and agents everywhere. 

Honestly, the Septim Empire is long gone, and when I made my decision I asked myself who would have a better chance against the Dominion, a stretched Empire or a unified Skyrim? 

@Elhanan: Ulfric does use his shout in battle, and it's pretty powerful. I watched him knock 6 Imperial soldiers off their feet and make them crash into a wall. 

Modifié par Aeowyn, 14 janvier 2012 - 01:44 .

[Thargorichiban]

Well today I finally got rid of Skjor. He had come back to the Companions Hall and everyone was too polite to mention to him that he was dead.

So I waited until he went to bed and re-killed him. Hopefully this time it sticks.

[Aeowyn]

Thargorichiban wrote...

Well today I finally got rid of Skjor. He had come back to the Companions Hall and everyone was too polite to mention to him that he was dead.

So I waited until he went to bed and re-killed him. Hopefully this time it sticks.

If you're playing on PC you could've consol disabled him.

[Giggles_Manically]

You know...Riften really does stand out like a very sore thumb.

We can topple the Dark Brotherhood.
Demolish bandits, necromancers, and other baddies at whim.
We can kick a demi-god to a pulp.
We can consort with Daedra, serve the Aedra, and lead guilds to glory.

We cant however TOUCH little Maven Black Briar, or the Theives Guild.
We needed the option for that really, and it being missing is just plain annoying.

There should have been a:
Silver Hand vs. Companions
Thieves Guild vs. (You and Mjoll) or (You and honest Riften folk)

Just like how we can side with or against the Dark Brotherhood.
Then again there would be people sobbing if the thieves guild did not return again...but they will do that for the DB.

I mean...up yours thieves guild you are nothing more than thugs and wiping you and Maven off the map should have been an option.
At least in Morrowind the thieves were going against a very corrupt system, and fought against slavers, and had a bit of a sense of honor.

But in Skyrim? They are nothing more than petty scum that shake down innocent people, and rob them.

Hopefully this is not because someone on the Bethesda has a Matt Ward style love of their fave faction and wont let anything bad happen to them.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 14 janvier 2012 - 03:44 .