37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Redneck1st]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Also, another point, since we're all trying to be  oh-so-unbias in our absurd attempt to find  some measure of equality between a masterpiece and a turd:

Elhanan wrote...

* fleeing suspects are often faster than Shawdowmere at a full gallop.

The fact that Skyrim even HAS enemies that flee combat already puts  it a step above DA2... who's Enemy AI   is not advanced enough to do anything other than  1) trudge forward at you until death; and 2) drop down from the ceiling,  then  trudge forward at you until death.

Ditto with your stealth complaint.   At least skyrim HAS stealth gameplay.

That is true there and for the most part it works pretty good.

[Sigma Tauri]

virumor wrote...

That cycle of destruction is only true for the Shivering Isles. Mundus being remade numerous times doesn't make any sense at all, unless the established monomyth is completely wrong and the gibberish of Mankar Camoran in Oblivion (Lorkhan being a Daedra, Nirn being a Daedric realm) is true. 

You're wrong. They're true. MC says somethings true as much as the Monomyth is true. The world was remade multiple times before, as stated by "Satakal the World-Skin."

Also, Lorkhan appearing as an avatar to defend humanity is pretty common throughout the history of Tamriel. Talos just merged with him. Dovahkiin is not in any way remarkable or special compared to previous heroes. Sure, he or she saved the world from being "eaten", but the impact is far lessened considering Alduin is never really shown in the game as truly threatening or powerful, he's just another generic dragon with a different skin that eats souls in Sovngarde (which is a good thing in my book, if cowards like Ulfric are able to end up over there).

Alduin and Dovahkiin are Akatosh and Lorkhan as Anu and Padhome. The Monomyth remains true and active in this mythic subgradient.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Redneck1st wrote...

Now I was wondering if anyone else caught this here. You know them assasins for which are sent to kill you from time to time early in the game? Ok the DB notes your find on them are signed by Astrid.

Now when you go and kill Ms kind for the kid in windhelm and you sleep. When you finally meet Astrid in the shack there is no mention then or ever about the contract. Not even through the whole DB quest line.

This part to me seems like it just wasn't followed up on. I'm curious as to whether it was the Thalmor that put the contract out on the Dragon borrn or Maven Black-Briar? If not one of them then who?

I'd put it down to Radiant Story being self contained, it generally ellicits no special or specific reaction in-game when dealing with related characters in separate plotlines. For example, if you steal and have NPCs send thugs after you, you can't then confront the NPC you originally stole from. If you butcher Thalmor to the point you get "kill on sight" orders, it doesn't affect how Diplomatic Immunity plays out (AFAIK), etc.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 03 février 2012 - 02:17 .

[Redneck1st]

CrustyBot wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

Now I was wondering if anyone else caught this here. You know them assasins for which are sent to kill you from time to time early in the game? Ok the DB notes your find on them are signed by Astrid.

Now when you go and kill Ms kind for the kid in windhelm and you sleep. When you finally meet Astrid in the shack there is no mention then or ever about the contract. Not even through the whole DB quest line.

This part to me seems like it just wasn't followed up on. I'm curious as to whether it was the Thalmor that put the contract out on the Dragon borrn or Maven Black-Briar? If not one of them then who?

I'd put it down to Radiant Story being self contained, it generally ellicits no special or specific reaction in-game when dealing with related characters in separate plotlines. For example, if you steal and have NPCs send thugs after you, you can't then confront the NPC you originally stole from. If you butcher Thalmor to the point you get "kill on sight" orders, it doesn't affect how Diplomatic Immunity plays out (AFAIK), etc.

Well now will have to makes sense there. As it would keep the quest line from moving forward. In a way it's a good thing due to the fact that the few times for which I"ve come across Thalmor II taunt them into attacking me and then I gut them..<G> As I've noticed with my running a Female nord this time through I get a dialogue option where I can tell them I'll worship who I want and that don't make them to happy and they attack.<G> Of course I don't run into them much out on the roads. Wish I ran into them more.

[Joy Divison]

Elhanan wrote...

Haplose wrote...

Yeah, or you can dodge/block a few spells and they will eventually have to pause as well.
Fortunately the ES are not a game where enemies and player characters operate under different rulesets (I'm looking at DA2 in particular!).

Dunno about that....
 
* guards, couriers, etc can locate you almost anywhere even if well over 100+ concealed and invisible.

* guards may fire arrows thru cell bars while player Shouts, spells, and arrows are unable to do the same.

* distant targets know instantly when a speeding arrow is on the way, and may dart away before impact.

* fleeing suspects are often faster than Shawdowmere at a full gallop.

* Ice and Fire mages may spam spells faster and more accurately than players. Etc.

Pls do not let bias cloud objectivity.

The only thing on your list that I have noticed is that couriers will deliver their messgae to you and that is purely a plot device, not a game mechanic. 

You've never killed those wolves locked in cages by the gambler's den?

"Distant" targets sometimes walk randomly, like close targets.  They dont dodge arrows.  Most of the time they stand there take it and afterwards say, "Can't hide from me!"

The dragonborn also moves damn fast pressing sprint.

If enemy mages seem faster, that is because the ai has perfect reactions and can precisely time how long a spell needs to be charged before casting.

DA2's mechanics were so ridiculous with its different rules for pcs/NPCs that its an insult to Skyrim to not acknowledge the differrence between the two games in this regard

[Giggles_Manically]

Having read though the Monomyth and looking up what Kirkbridge wrote some of the lore becomes much more sensible now.

The Thalmor do honestly believe that they were one with the original spirits BEFORE, Shor/Shezzar/Lorkhan created the world and by extension humanity.
But instead of Mundus going back into the cycle they are now STUCK here in a world that they dont want to be in.

Which now fully explains their hatred of Talos and humanity.
Still I kind of like the world and squashing them is kind of enjoyable.

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Er... I can fire arrows (and *kill* things with them)   thru  bars and cages in Skyrim.

Then it must be certain or specific cages which hold the restrictions or priviledge. In the Riftin jail, no such fire was possible; same for the gate bars in the Staff of Magnus quest.

And civil wars. And horseback riding. And Tool sets.

And they seem to have a decisive edge in the Player agency department, too.

I prefer the DA2 war story myself. Neither game had sides with good leadership at the top (though I confess I liked the soon to be killed by the DB Emperor), and both had minor leaders that were both good and bad. While I enjoyed the battles at Whiterun and Solitude, the remaining fare felt as neutral as the Chantry.

And before 'consequenses' arises, the Main Quest truce made before Civil War quest is much the same thing. IMO.

But I shall give you horseback riding (sans armor), and Toolset (don't use 'em, and apparently don't need  them for mods).

[Elhanan]

Redneck1st wrote...

Addal67- Yes but you've got to have the staff of Magnus to begin with and at Lvl 38 I've yet to Even visit the MC. Heck I've not even been to Riften or Markarth this play through.Think them are the only towns for which I"ve not been to yet. But will have to admit that in the Markarth hold area I've got a 40septum bounty on me.<LOL>

@Elhanan- Don't Lightning cloak work like the Fire cloak where it's only good in melee combat? This is the first play through for which I've used spells in the game so I'm just figuring them out and trying them as I find them. Also how did you manage to teleport into the cell with Sippi? I've never come across a teleport spell in the game Must be missing something some where.

Now as for every one else will have to agree with Yrkoon I"ve also fired arrows through bars and cages and killed them. I've also used Ice form on Draugr that were on the other side of a portuculis and it froze them.

Not sure about being 100% stealth and the guards and courier still being able to find you as I've never tried that there.

Will have to admit though that so far this game I've yet to get any naked grams from the courier. So far every time he's found me he's been fully dressed and not only in his small clothes.

Lightning spells drain health and magika; usually better against mages than Fire or Cold. But yes; Cloaks only work in melee, which is not a bad tactical choice at all against mages. Add another Lightning based spell, and it often makes fast work of many of them.

If one uses the Sit Chair, Sit Bench, Sleep Bed, or other like option, it will teleport you into the area; discovered by accident while trying to talk to imprisoned vampires *yikes*.

While I have found a few spots with holes in the walls that allow sniping, I gave up trying with bars and vines. It appears this may be a place by place instance, or at least it did not work in mine. Certain spells (eg; Runes) appear to be very effective, but have seen both direct spell fire and Shouts get tossed aside like the place was Warded.

And no naked couriers for me; just ones that show up in locations where I was hiding for whatever reason.

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

  Also, another point, since we're all trying to be  'unbias' in our absurd attempt to find  some measure of equality between a masterpiece and a turdThe fact that Skyrim even HAS enemies that flee combat already puts  it a step above DA2... who's Enemy AI   is not advanced enough to do anything other than   rush forward at you until death.  I don't even understand the comparison you're trying to make  here anyway.  Are you saying that fast fleeing is a skill only the enemies have in Skyrim?  You'd be wrong about that, too.

Ditto with your stealth complaint.   That you'd  deign to even mention Stealth  in this discussion is  an affront to all my gaming senses.    At least Skyrim HAS stealth gameplay. 

Now that's not fair; never called Skyrim by either moniker, I believe....

Not just those fleeing combat are seen speeding about in Skyrim, but also killers in Windhelm that strike in the marketplace during broad daylight, many so-called followers or allies, and those ever limber Undead. Etc.

But yes; Skyrim does have Flee as an option for foes; a wonderful time of hide and seek can be had by all. Or simply wait in place for the duration, and kill them when they return to me. In either case, an unenjoyable option that draws out the time and sucks the fun of encounters. As for the spell option, only used it to make foes Hostile. But it does not seem to work thru certain jail bars either....

DAO and DA2 both have Stealth; called Shadow in the latter one.

Modifié par Elhanan, 03 février 2012 - 03:23 .

[Giggles_Manically]

The enemies who try to surrender always make me laugh.

Yeah the guy who crushes you in a couple hits and you think you can what?
Sure enemies attempt to run away or surrender, but they will try and kill you a few minutes later.

[Redneck1st]

Elhanan wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

Addal67- Yes but you've got to have the staff of Magnus to begin with and at Lvl 38 I've yet to Even visit the MC. Heck I've not even been to Riften or Markarth this play through.Think them are the only towns for which I"ve not been to yet. But will have to admit that in the Markarth hold area I've got a 40septum bounty on me.<LOL>

@Elhanan- Don't Lightning cloak work like the Fire cloak where it's only good in melee combat? This is the first play through for which I've used spells in the game so I'm just figuring them out and trying them as I find them. Also how did you manage to teleport into the cell with Sippi? I've never come across a teleport spell in the game Must be missing something some where.

Now as for every one else will have to agree with Yrkoon I"ve also fired arrows through bars and cages and killed them. I've also used Ice form on Draugr that were on the other side of a portuculis and it froze them.

Not sure about being 100% stealth and the guards and courier still being able to find you as I've never tried that there.

Will have to admit though that so far this game I've yet to get any naked grams from the courier. So far every time he's found me he's been fully dressed and not only in his small clothes.

Lightning spells drain health and magika; usually better against mages than Fire or Cold. But yes; Cloaks only work in melee, which is not a bad tactical choice at all against mages. Add another Lightning based spell, and it often makes fast work of many of them.

If one uses the Sit Chair, Sit Bench, Sleep Bed, or other like option, it will teleport you into the area; discovered by accident while trying to talk to imprisoned vampires *yikes*.

While I have found a few spots with holes in the walls that allow sniping, I gave up trying with bars and vines. It appears this may be a place by place instance, or at least it did not work in mine. Certain spells (eg; Runes) appear to be very effective, but have seen both direct spell fire and Shouts get tossed aside like the place was Warded.

And no naked couriers for me; just ones that show up in locations where I was hiding for whatever reason.

Well yes I have learned that in regards to lightening being better to use against mages. Thats why when mages attack I usually either snipe them down with my bow or cast a storm cloak spell I think it's called on me and go in and hit them fast and hard. Of course now that I've got the Elemental perk for when I use a shield most of thier spells do 0 damage to my Female nord. Only place I've had the courier meet me was when I've gone to Riverwood as that is my main stopping point to unload allot of junk I want to get rid of as the riverwood trader has over 11k worth of gold on hand. And as for sneaking had no reason to be sneaking around in Riverwood. Except when I'm in the mood to pick pocket everyone and leave them all in their small clothes and nothing else.<LOL>

You mentioned DA 2 that was the worst of the two DA games tht was put out. All I felt with that game was that the protagonist was nothing but a gofer. No real story in the game at all. And I heard the 2 DLCs for which they put out weren't much better either. As for DA if there is a 3rd one I doubt that I will be pre-ordering it after the way they gave those that pre-ordered DA2 the shaft.

[Redneck1st]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The enemies who try to surrender always make me laugh.

Yeah the guy who crushes you in a couple hits and you think you can what?
Sure enemies attempt to run away or surrender, but they will try and kill you a few minutes later.

Whats really funny is I was running one bandit through with my sword and as I was he says it's nothing really.<LOL> 

[Elhanan]

Joy Divison wrote...

The only thing on your list that I have noticed is that couriers will deliver their messgae to you and that is purely a plot device, not a game mechanic. 

You've never killed those wolves locked in cages by the gambler's den?

"Distant" targets sometimes walk randomly, like close targets.  They dont dodge arrows.  Most of the time they stand there take it and afterwards say, "Can't hide from me!"

The dragonborn also moves damn fast pressing sprint.

If enemy mages seem faster, that is because the ai has perfect reactions and can precisely time how long a spell needs to be charged before casting.

DA2's mechanics were so ridiculous with its different rules for pcs/NPCs that its an insult to Skyrim to not acknowledge the differrence between the two games in this regard

Cannot recall ever trying to shoot imprisoned critters; most often allow them freedom to attack their jailers.

Distant targets do walk patterns; standing sentries do not. Both have been seen leaping from sight at the final moment, with the imagined 'Neener; Neener' still on their lips.

While clothing yields faster targets than armored ones, it does not seem to explain the Roadrunner blazing seen in my game. And enemy Mages do not have perfect reactions; they seem to have inflated damage and a solid hold on their Mouse button while not having to utilize WASD movement.

As for comparing games, both seem to have added resistance or immunities for the highest Difficulty setting; passed on both. But as for stories, characters, and romance options; much prefer DA.

Or maybe one must really like hot dinners over stories of saving the Golden Claw....

[Elhanan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The enemies who try to surrender always make me laugh.

Yeah the guy who crushes you in a couple hits and you think you can what?
Sure enemies attempt to run away or surrender, but they will try and kill you a few minutes later.

Or you can do the honorable thing, and let your forced follower do it for you....

[happy_daiz]

I found another location last night, not on the map - Reeking Cave.

All that was in it was one frost troll and a dead novice conjurer, and not much loot. According to one of the wikis, though, you can use Whirlwind Spring within Reeking Cave to reenter the Thalmor Embassy.

It is also possible to re-enter the Embassy through Reeking Cave using platforming and the Thu'um 'Whirlwind Sprint' (regardless of how many words the player has learned for the Thu'um). Reeking Cave is just north of the Embassy. Once in the cave, in order to get up the ledge you must walk to the top of the log, aim the crosshair slightly above the right side of the ledge you are trying to get on, and use Whirlwind Sprint.

[happy_daiz]

Elhanan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The enemies who try to surrender always make me laugh.

Yeah the guy who crushes you in a couple hits and you think you can what?
Sure enemies attempt to run away or surrender, but they will try and kill you a few minutes later.

Or you can do the honorable thing, and let your forced follower do it for you....

Borgakh usually does the honors before I can get my battleaxe into position.

[Elhanan]

Redneck1st wrote...

Well yes I have learned that in regards to lightening being better to use against mages. Thats why when mages attack I usually either snipe them down with my bow or cast a storm cloak spell I think it's called on me and go in and hit them fast and hard.



Of course now that I've got the Elemental perk for when I use a shield most of thier spells do 0 damage to my Female nord. Only place I've had the courier meet me was when I've gone to Riverwood as that is my main stopping point to unload allot of junk I want to get rid of as the riverwood trader has over 11k worth of gold on hand. And as for sneaking had no reason to be sneaking around in Riverwood. Except when I'm in the mood to pick pocket everyone and leave them all in their small clothes and nothing else.<LOL>

You mentioned DA 2 that was the worst of the two DA games tht was put out. All I felt with that game was that the protagonist was nothing but a gofer. No real story in the game at all. And I heard the 2 DLCs for which they put out weren't much better either. As for DA if there is a 3rd one I doubt that I will be pre-ordering it after the way they gave those that pre-ordered DA2 the shaft.

And the Dragonborn is not used as a Gopher? The Greybeards are the only faction that treat the PC with any dignity; the others dismiss him more often than the guards. "No lollygagging!"

I loved the Legacy story myself, and may get the other later this year. Unless the pre-launch info eliminates my interest, DA3 is the next big game for me.

[Redneck1st]

happy_daiz wrote...

I found another location last night, not on the map - Reeking Cave.

All that was in it was one frost troll and a dead novice conjurer, and not much loot. According to one of the wikis, though, you can use Whirlwind Spring within Reeking Cave to reenter the Thalmor Embassy.

It is also possible to re-enter the Embassy through Reeking Cave using platforming and the Thu'um 'Whirlwind Sprint' (regardless of how many words the player has learned for the Thu'um). Reeking Cave is just north of the Embassy. Once in the cave, in order to get up the ledge you must walk to the top of the log, aim the crosshair slightly above the right side of the ledge you are trying to get on, and use Whirlwind Sprint.

Yes that cave is up around the Thalmor Embasy its the one you go into when you use the trap door to leave the embassy after you've done the Diplomatic immunity quest. I thought most folks knew about that one there by now.

[Giggles_Manically]

happy_daiz wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The enemies who try to surrender always make me laugh.

Yeah the guy who crushes you in a couple hits and you think you can what?
Sure enemies attempt to run away or surrender, but they will try and kill you a few minutes later.

Or you can do the honorable thing, and let your forced follower do it for you....

Borgakh usually does the honors before I can get my battleaxe into position.

Kinky. 

[Redneck1st]

Elhanan wrote...

Redneck1st wrote...

Well yes I have learned that in regards to lightening being better to use against mages. Thats why when mages attack I usually either snipe them down with my bow or cast a storm cloak spell I think it's called on me and go in and hit them fast and hard.



Of course now that I've got the Elemental perk for when I use a shield most of thier spells do 0 damage to my Female nord. Only place I've had the courier meet me was when I've gone to Riverwood as that is my main stopping point to unload allot of junk I want to get rid of as the riverwood trader has over 11k worth of gold on hand. And as for sneaking had no reason to be sneaking around in Riverwood. Except when I'm in the mood to pick pocket everyone and leave them all in their small clothes and nothing else.<LOL>

You mentioned DA 2 that was the worst of the two DA games tht was put out. All I felt with that game was that the protagonist was nothing but a gofer. No real story in the game at all. And I heard the 2 DLCs for which they put out weren't much better either. As for DA if there is a 3rd one I doubt that I will be pre-ordering it after the way they gave those that pre-ordered DA2 the shaft.

And the Dragonborn is not used as a Gopher? The Greybeards are the only faction that treat the PC with any dignity; the others dismiss him more often than the guards. "No lollygagging!"

I loved the Legacy story myself, and may get the other later this year. Unless the pre-launch info eliminates my interest, DA3 is the next big game for me.

Not the way for which Hawk was used as one in DA2. In Skyrim at least there is a reason for which your having to do most of the things for which you need to do. I didn't feel that way in DA2 at all.I didn't feel like I was playing the protagonist in DA2. Now if there is a DA3 I doubt that I will pre-oder that game like I said due to the fact the way bioware shafted those of us that pre-ordered DA2. I will take a wait and see approach on the game and see what other gamers who are actually playing the game think about it before I consider laying out the money for it. Now if they go back to the way they did with DAO then they'll be onto something.

[Elhanan]

I pre-ordered Da2 and my game was Shaft-free....

Both games have issues; both have benefits. I prefer storylines to sandboxes as a rule; others differ. But those that do not see the flaws in one while reciting them for the other is problematic and rather unjustice. IMO.

[happy_daiz]

Redneck1st wrote...
Yes that cave is up around the Thalmor Embasy its the one you go into when you use the trap door to leave the embassy after you've done the Diplomatic immunity quest. I thought most folks knew about that one there by now.

I'm sure I probably did know about it, but I don't usually stumble upon it going in; I'm usually going out.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...
Borgakh usually does the honors before I can get my battleaxe into position.

Kinky.

OMG! Someone has a dirty mind.  Totally not what I meant.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 03 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Try dealing with this on some older Bethesda forums.

There are in fact forums where they REFUSE to recognize Fallout 3 as an actual fallout game and only have 1 and 2 as canon. Dont even ASK about FONV either.

Its best to just talk about the game itself rather than going on in pointless debate that never gets anywhere.

[Yrkoon]

Joy Divison wrote...
The dragonborn also moves damn fast pressing sprint.

And at least 3 times as fast as anything else in the game when he/she activates Whirlwind Sprint.

Elhanan wrote...

DAO and DA2 both have Stealth; called Shadow in the latter one.

I said Stealth gameplay Elhanan. As in, a game play MODE. DA2 doesn't have that, no.  

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 février 2012 - 04:48 .

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
The dragonborn also moves damn fast pressing sprint.

And at least 3 times as fast as anything else in the game when he/she activates Whirlwind Sprint.

NPC's can still turn....