37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Carcharoth42]

I found some interesting lore regarding spirits bound to items... it's a bit disturbing.
www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancestors_and_the_Dunmer
The section titled "Mad Spirits." You may never look at an enchanted item the same way again.

[tetrisblock4x1]

I gave up on this game pretty quickly. The inventory lists were no good, vertical mouse sensitivity was set way higher than horizontal, the actors haven't gotten any better either.

The final straw for me was the dungeon design. The introduction and path to the first town with that name I've forgotten already was so linear, so basic. But then so was the journey to the first Skyrim crypt. And then the crypt itsself was also incredibly basic. I liked how in Oblivion and in Morrowind the dungeons had open areas, diverging paths, high ground, low ground and so on. Skyrim One narrow and straight corridor after the other with nothing to explore. No open area, no alternate routes, no secret areas or anything. Does the design get better? I don't think that simple dungeons is easily fixed by the modders.

Maybe if the performance issues have been modded away, maybe if the vertical sensitivity is good now, and the whole UI has been made PC friendly I'll go back into Skyrin and give it a proper chance... I'll look into it as soon as this new DLC with the rumored dragon mounts is released.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 17 février 2012 - 01:34 .

[Haplose]

I like the area design a lot in Skyrim. Well except one thing - linearity. How come the boss/treasure is always at the end of the dungeon and there's usually a secret shortcut leading near the start available at the end of the location? That's very simplistic, linear design indeed. A bit of a shame really, because otherwise I love the atmosphere and design of the locations. I guess they are really pretty simplistic compared with the terrible Daggerfall 3D mazes (where map was of little use).

Modifié par Haplose, 17 février 2012 - 02:25 .

[Eurypterid]

xiiFezz wrote...

If i remember correctly there is a perk in sneak on the right side (I think its the 2nd or 3rd one) that does make a bow do 3x sneak damage.

Yeah, I've got that perk already. I was saying I wish there was one for a higher multiplier further up the tree, like there is for daggers (15x damage).

@ Elhanan, Haplose, and Deathwurm: good points on the enchanting/smithing and the uber-sneak. I haven't gotten around to doing any crafting or enchanting yet. I went through Haemar's Shame last night and cleared it out without even taking a hit though, and two-shotted the Master Vampire (my character is level 19 right now), so I guess it's powerful enough with the sneak and 3x multiplier. With better gear, I can see it might just be... scary.

[AventuroLegendary]

Carcharoth42 wrote...

I found some interesting lore regarding spirits bound to items... it's a bit disturbing.
www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ancestors_and_the_Dunmer
The section titled "Mad Spirits." You may never look at an enchanted item the same way again.

Thank you. I will never use my axe with such glee ever again.

[Elhanan]

Haplose wrote...

I like the area design a lot in Skyrim. Well except one thing - linearity. How come the boss/treasure is always at the end of the dungeon and there's usually a secret shortcut leading near the start available at the end of the location? That's very simplistic, linear design indeed. A bit of a shame really, because otherwise I love the atmosphere and design of the locations. I guess they are really pretty simplistic compared with the terrible Daggerfall 3D mazes (where map was of little use).

Personally, I adore the linearity of most dungeons, as it aids my RL lack of directionality. Being able to back track if desired is key; esp sweet when your forced companion scurries thru the place leaving loot behind.

And those escape valves not only help speed exits, but make sense in that the IG designers and builders would have also planned a faster way out for themselves in order to bypass the set traps. Not all past historical owners of tombs killed the crews, after all; an escape path may have also improved morale.

But not all the locations are liear; many ways to approach them. I know of one location where the prize may be obtained with little effort by simply bypassing almost everything difficult. And there are plentiful ways to enter into ruins, forts, and occasionally the dungeon areas themselves.

Thing is, there is something for almost everyone here, and after 700+ hrs, I am still uncovering new ones.

[Giggles_Manically]

Personally I love how many options there are for getting into forts.

[Elhanan]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I gave up on this game pretty quickly. The inventory lists were no good, vertical mouse sensitivity was set way higher than horizontal, the actors haven't gotten any better either.

The final straw for me was the dungeon design. The introduction and path to the first town with that name I've forgotten already was so linear, so basic. But then so was the journey to the first Skyrim crypt. And then the crypt itsself was also incredibly basic. I liked how in Oblivion and in Morrowind the dungeons had open areas, diverging paths, high ground, low ground and so on. Skyrim One narrow and straight corridor after the other with nothing to explore. No open area, no alternate routes, no secret areas or anything. Does the design get better? I don't think that simple dungeons is easily fixed by the modders.

Maybe if the performance issues have been modded away, maybe if the vertical sensitivity is good now, and the whole UI has been made PC friendly I'll go back into Skyrin and give it a proper chance... I'll look into it as soon as this new DLC with the rumored dragon mounts is released.

Techless One here....

There is a UI mod available to improve lists; seems mighty popular, though I have not added it myself. And my own Mouse issues are now settled; simply needed to adj it using the Settings, and insure that they were generally not defaulted to Console.

But I must disagree again with the whole linear thing, as there are numerous paths to areas, plenty of open places for Dragons to land, high ground (my numerous sniper nests can attest to this). Even inside the dungeons themselves, I am able to find plenty of hiding spaces and kill zones.
 
While Bleak Falls Barrow is often the first dungeon many see, it also serves as a tutorial for the kinds of things to expect elsewhere. The traps, secret doors, puzzles, etc seen in here serve to indicate what may be found in other regional tombs. One learns what to expect to see for triggers, difference between lootable corpses and animated Undead, keystones, pitfalls, levers, etc. 

 Personally, I love the place, and visit there on every playthrough.

[Elhanan]

Eurypterid wrote...

Yeah, I've got that perk already. I was saying I wish there was one for a higher multiplier further up the tree, like there is for daggers (15x damage).

@ Elhanan, Haplose, and Deathwurm: good points on the enchanting/smithing and the uber-sneak. I haven't gotten around to doing any crafting or enchanting yet. I went through Haemar's Shame last night and cleared it out without even taking a hit though, and two-shotted the Master Vampire (my character is level 19 right now), so I guess it's powerful enough with the sneak and 3x multiplier. With better gear, I can see it might just be... scary.

If you are able to return to Riverwood, the smith there offers a small tutorial in the process. As it takes little to improve items (ie; invested time, resources, etc), this is my favorite of the Crafting options.

As far as other increases, the Archery perks for Overdraw and improved crits help the base, while most of the other perks aid in hitting the target, as well as possible stagger and paralysis effects. I recommend full Stealth, and all but Hunter's Discipline and Ranger perks for Archery, and these two could be useful depending on chosen playstyle.

[Addai]

VaIorite wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

^What mod are you using? She's gorgeous.

The mod is called: Better Females by Bella skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php

Yeah I looked at that when I was trying to figure out how to make a nicer looking Breton- all the female presets appear 50 years old.  I don't like the airbrushed look, however.  To their credit, the mod creators state in the description that the mod is not for you if you don't like the "glam" look.

[Addai]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I gave up on this game pretty quickly. The inventory lists were no good, vertical mouse sensitivity was set way higher than horizontal, the actors haven't gotten any better either.

The final straw for me was the dungeon design. The introduction and path to the first town with that name I've forgotten already was so linear, so basic. But then so was the journey to the first Skyrim crypt. And then the crypt itsself was also incredibly basic. I liked how in Oblivion and in Morrowind the dungeons had open areas, diverging paths, high ground, low ground and so on. Skyrim One narrow and straight corridor after the other with nothing to explore. No open area, no alternate routes, no secret areas or anything. Does the design get better? I don't think that simple dungeons is easily fixed by the modders.

Maybe if the performance issues have been modded away, maybe if the vertical sensitivity is good now, and the whole UI has been made PC friendly I'll go back into Skyrin and give it a proper chance... I'll look into it as soon as this new DLC with the rumored dragon mounts is released.

I think you must be joking if you say you prefer Oblivion dungeon design to Skyrim.

Also there is nothing "linear" about the game at all.  Once you get out of the tutorial dungeon, you can go anywhere you want, just like with all TES games.  It was exactly the same in Oblivion.  You had to go through the tutorial dungeon, but then you were free to do whatever you want.  Ralof/ Hadvar even say "it's best if we split up."  If you continue to follow them, that's your own choice.

If you're on PC, you also have no excuse complaining about the UI when there are good mods available to change it.  In short, I have no idea what you're talking about.  If you hadn't said otherwise, I'd assume you hadn't ever played a Bethesda game before.

[Chromie]

Addai67 wrote...

If you're on PC, you also have no excuse complaining about the UI when there are good mods available to change it.  In short, I have no idea what you're talking about.  If you hadn't said otherwise, I'd assume you hadn't ever played a Bethesda game before.

Why should we have to rely on other people to get a good UI? I bet you give Bethesda credit for mods like Nehrim too.

The dungeon design is definitely better though how anyone could Oblivion had good dungeons is beyond me. 


Anyway, I reinstalled Skyrim and modded a lot of it so far except face/body models. Anyone have any suggestions?

Modifié par Ringo12, 17 février 2012 - 05:52 .

[Addai]

I've complained plenty about the PC UI. But that's no longer an excuse to not play the game.

[Yrkoon]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...
And then the crypt itsself was also incredibly basic. I liked how in Oblivion and in Morrowind the dungeons had open areas, diverging paths, high ground, low ground and so on.

There are ~50 dungeons in Skyrim that contain all of the above.  And then there's Blackreach.

Of course if you quit playing the game after   the Tutorial and Bleak Falls barrow you're in a ridiculously terrible position to be commenting about Skyrim's dungeon design, as you've literally only seen ONE of its 178 dungeons, each and every one of them  vastly different from the other.

But for what its worth, I'll come out and say it.  Skyrim  has, by far, the best dungeon designs of any game I've ever played.  The dungeons are so good and  the layouts/eyecandy so varied, that I'm genuinely worried that I'm now officially scarred for life.    Thanks to Skyrim's dungeons, My  standards have been raised somewhere past the stratosphere.  And The next 10 new games I play will probably disappoint me, as there's virtually no way any other developer will have the time, staff, resources  or even the desire to match  what Bethesda did with Dungeon design in Skyrim. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 février 2012 - 07:38 .

[bussinrounds]

RPGs used to have some truly intricate dungeons but i guess with the modern tech they had to simplify that significantly. Plus, they wouldn't want the modern gamer getting lost and easily frustrated, I guess.

[HoonDing]

It's as much about getting lost and frustrated, it's about not having time for that crap anymore.

[bussinrounds]

Yet ppl have the time to put 700 hours into skyrim doing dumb sh*t like rearranging crap in their virtual houses or picking fu**ing flowers.

   Yea, who needs good dungeons.

Modifié par bussinrounds, 17 février 2012 - 09:56 .

[Barbarossa2010]

More NPCs in the Wild is insane.  I mean, to me it's just cartoon fun...in Skyrim no less.  Forsworn and Bandit encounters are turning into horde-fests.  But you get a lot of these:



Gutting and scorching Forsworn as Lydia gets ready to drop the hammer on her Thane.


...and Bandits still never learn.

[HoonDing]

^I might have to install that mod for a while because Two-handed doesn't raise as fast as I want it to raise.

bussinrounds wrote...

Yet ppl have the time to put 700 hours into skyrim doing dumb sh*t like rearranging crap in their virtual houses or picking fu**ing flowers.

   Yea, who needs good dungeons.

u mad?

[Elhanan]

bussinrounds wrote...

Yet ppl have the time to put 700 hours into skyrim doing dumb sh*t like rearranging crap in their virtual houses or picking fu**ing flowers.

   Yea, who needs good dungeons.

Because we already have great dungeons; not simple hedge mazes that expect to contain armored warriors, mages, and roguish scouts with paper thin walls that range the entire frame of the area.

And anybody that knows me is already aware that in my 700+ hrs, probably less than an a single hour in total was taken to place (or replace) pots, lutes, flutes, drums, bees in bottles, etc around the rooms of my houses.

Assume much; learn little....

[bussinrounds]

Elhanan wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

Yet ppl have the time to put 700 hours into skyrim doing dumb sh*t like rearranging crap in their virtual houses or picking fu**ing flowers.

   Yea, who needs good dungeons.

Because we already have great dungeons; not simple hedge mazes that expect to contain armored warriors, mages, and roguish scouts with paper thin walls that range the entire frame of the area.

And anybody that knows me is already aware that in my 700+ hrs, probably less than an a single hour in total was taken to place (or replace) pots, lutes, flutes, drums, bees in bottles, etc around the rooms of my houses.

Assume much; learn little....

        I guess if you consider 'great' based on how pretty/shiny they are.  

[bussinrounds]

virumor wrote...

^I might have to install that mod for a while because Two-handed doesn't raise as fast as I want it to raise.

bussinrounds wrote...

Yet ppl have the time to put 700 hours into skyrim doing dumb sh*t like rearranging crap in their virtual houses or picking fu**ing flowers.

   Yea, who needs good dungeons.

u mad?

  I am mad, because looking back 20+ years ago I was expecting some truly amazing things out of this genre.  And seeing what it's turned into is just sad.

[Elhanan]

bussinrounds wrote...

I guess if you consider 'great' based on how pretty/shiny they are.  

Loot filled; perhaps, but I do not require all my dungeons to look pretty. Or have we not discovered the Falmer,  Forsworn and Hagravens yet?

I have no idea what you look for in a great dungeon, but for myself, Skyrim has several.

Has anyone else noticed any sleight similarity between Bleak Falls Barrow and the ruins of the Breceilian Forest of DAO? The roots, ruined passages, secret doors, etc all remind me of it; keep expecting werewolves.

[bussinrounds]

Elhanan wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

I guess if you consider 'great' based on how pretty/shiny they are.  

Loot filled; perhaps, but I do not require all my dungeons to look pretty. Or have we not discovered the Falmer,  Forsworn and Hagravens yet?

I have no idea what you look for in a great dungeon, but for myself, Skyrim has several.

Has anyone else noticed any sleight similarity between Bleak Falls Barrow and the ruins of the Breceilian Forest of DAO? The roots, ruined passages, secret doors, etc all remind me of it; keep expecting werewolves.

  I look for some complexity in my dungeons.  Not a boring ass linear corridor that leads to a boss and quick exit at the end filled with PHAT LEWT.

Modifié par bussinrounds, 17 février 2012 - 10:44 .

[AventuroLegendary]

To be fair, the only problem with the dungeons is the linearity. Everything else about the dungeons is awesome. I'll take these hand-crafted dungeons over Oblivion and Daggerfall's "Complex" copy-and-paste dungeons.

Modifié par LegendaryAvenger, 17 février 2012 - 11:04 .