37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Gotholhorakh]

Re: the discussion of duels/combat mechanics, I would love to see m&b warband style combat in Skyrim, including duels and large parties/battles and from what we saw in their hackweek footage it looked like somebody at Bethesda might have had the same kind of thought in some small respect.

That said, introducing more physically involved combat to Skyrim would present challenges of its own.Remembering that it's the kind of RPG franchise where combat is founded on stats matching more than player skill and reflexes - with some requirement thrown in for the player to do *basic* hooking up of what happens for gameplay fun - it's got to stay really enjoyable to that massive audience without excluding people, so I think it it would probably be best if it happened in a mod rather than the main game.

[Dave of Canada]

Brockololly wrote...

And its so cool finding random things even after playing for 100+ hours. Like wandering around and seeing a cabin in the woods with a guy that looks like he's sleeping, only to see he's dead. Read the journal and the poor guy chronicled how he was dying of Rockjoint. Poor guy, I mean, hell, thats more than I cared about most of the characters in DA2 and this guy didn't say a word!

Did you see his dog? It makes it worse.

[bussinrounds]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Re: the discussion of duels/combat mechanics, I would love to see m&b warband style combat in Skyrim, including duels and large parties/battles and from what we saw in their hackweek footage it looked like somebody at Bethesda might have had the same kind of thought in some small respect.

That said, introducing more physically involved combat to Skyrim would present challenges of its own.Remembering that it's the kind of RPG franchise where combat is founded on stats matching more than player skill and reflexes - with some requirement thrown in for the player to do *basic* hooking up of what happens for gameplay fun - it's got to stay really enjoyable to that massive audience without excluding people, so I think it it would probably be best if it happened in a mod rather than the main game.

  I think at this point they'd just be better off ditching alot of their 'RPG' mechanics/stats and going to more of a visceral action approach instead of trying to stradle the fence and do both.  (which umtimatly ends up with a watered down version of both aspects) But we know it's all about trying to please everyone with Bethesda, and attract both types of fans, which just means more $$$ to them)

     The Vault Dweller said it best with his review of Obliuvion... 

 "An RPG for casual players, brilliant !! Why ? Any gripes about the action elements will be met with, well it's really an RPG, duh ! And any complaints about the RPG elements are met with, well this isn;t your grandpas RPG with skill checks and dice rolls, it's an action RPG, for the next generation, duh" !!

[Addai]

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

I've been playing The Witcher 2 this weekend and trying hard not to compare the two games but Skyrim has really spoiled me. The high res pack and lack of invisible walls are something I'll appreciate a lot going back. Plus just the fact of having my own character versus someone else's. The dialogue is a lot more sophisticated in TW2, though, as is the general political setup.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 février 2012 - 09:02 .

[happy_daiz]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And its so cool finding random things even after playing for 100+ hours. Like wandering around and seeing a cabin in the woods with a guy that looks like he's sleeping, only to see he's dead. Read the journal and the poor guy chronicled how he was dying of Rockjoint. Poor guy, I mean, hell, thats more than I cared about most of the characters in DA2 and this guy didn't say a word!

Did you see his dog? It makes it worse.

The first time I met Meeko, I didn't realize any of that was there, and just happened to get attacked by a dragon when I was nearby. I heard a dog barking, but couldn't see him. Once the fight was over, discovered said dog...dead. Then I found the house. And the owner. And the journal. I was very upset, and reloaded my last save, and haven't been back. I can't bear the thought of inadvertently being the cause of his death.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 20 février 2012 - 09:16 .

[themonty72]

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

I've been playing The Witcher 2 this weekend and trying hard not to compare the two games but Skyrim has really spoiled me. The high res pack and lack of invisible walls are something I'll appreciate a lot going back. Plus just the fact of having my own character versus someone else's. The dialogue is a lot more sophisticated in TW2, though, as is the general political setup.

I  agree I love the combat and Skyrim has spooiled me also so much freedoom and eveything in the game  seems to have a purpose.Hell buttrerfly wings even have a purpose.

Modifié par themonty72, 20 février 2012 - 09:21 .

[bussinrounds]

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

   The truth hurts, huh ?

  What's with this, only comment if it's positive bs ?   I'm not saying anything outlandish or outrageous.  WTF ?
What do you want, just a continuous circle jerk of admiration constantly ?    How about not being so defensive over a game and learn to handle some criticisms ?   If you can't handle it, maybe you should be the one to

[themonty72]

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

I've been playing The Witcher 2 this weekend and trying hard not to compare the two games but Skyrim has really spoiled me. The high res pack and lack of invisible walls are something I'll appreciate a lot going back. Plus just the fact of having my own character versus someone else's. The dialogue is a lot more sophisticated in TW2, though, as is the general political setup.

I agree the combat is fine...I love it. Skyrim has spoiled me to. Everything in Skyrim have a purpose even butterfly wings. Lets not talk about the freedoom I could go on all day.

[Elhanan]

I am having some glitch trpoubles, but those are of my own creation.

Had made it to 52nd with my Orc, and found the Blocking perks were not working well for my style (eg; must sprint to use top perk, and I tend to play in Stealth). So I dropped my level back to 40th from a past save, and then added to a few pts back to some skills, and went back to playing.

When I returned to Whiterun, I was appraoched by a mage to test spells, and then a moment later, another mage wished to duel. Thing is; have not visited the College on this path quite yet. Guess I will have to expect the unexpected.

Note: It is rather fulfilling to be able to best any foe using their own weapon choices. And if it is a Mage, having an ample Resist Magic score gives me smiles while erasing theirs.

[Addai]

bussinrounds wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

   The truth hurts, huh ?

  What's with this, only comment if it's positive bs ?   I'm not saying anything outlandish or outrageous.  WTF ?
What do you want, just a continuous circle jerk of admiration constantly ?    How about not being so defensive over a game and learn to handle some criticisms ?   If you can't handle it, maybe you should be the one to 

You've been going on for pages about how the combat sucks.  We get it.  It's not "truth," it's just your opinion, and how many times are you going to crank it out over and over?

[Dave of Canada]

happy_daiz wrote...

The first time I met Meeko, I didn't realize any of that was there, and just happened to get attacked by a dragon when I was nearby. I heard a dog barking, but couldn't see him. Once the fight was over, discovered said dog...dead. Then I found the house. And the owner. And the journal. I was very upset, and reloaded my last save, and haven't been back. I can't bear the thought of inadvertently being the cause of his death.

I killed Meeko, domesticated dog wouldn't leave his master's side and probably wouldn't survive in the wilderness. Might as well end it now.

[Haplose]

bussinrounds wrote...
I think at this point they'd just be better off ditching alot of their 'RPG' mechanics/stats and going to more of a visceral action approach instead of trying to stradle the fence and do both.  (which umtimatly ends up with a watered down version of both aspects) 

I hope this will NOT happen. When it becomes a typical action game I'll loose interest.

...oh and I agree, the combat is fine. Haven't played any game where it was noticably better (comparable at best).

Modifié par Haplose, 20 février 2012 - 09:50 .

[billy the squid]

bussinrounds wrote...

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Re: the discussion of duels/combat mechanics, I would love to see m&b warband style combat in Skyrim, including duels and large parties/battles and from what we saw in their hackweek footage it looked like somebody at Bethesda might have had the same kind of thought in some small respect.

That said, introducing more physically involved combat to Skyrim would present challenges of its own.Remembering that it's the kind of RPG franchise where combat is founded on stats matching more than player skill and reflexes - with some requirement thrown in for the player to do *basic* hooking up of what happens for gameplay fun - it's got to stay really enjoyable to that massive audience without excluding people, so I think it it would probably be best if it happened in a mod rather than the main game.

 

I think at this point they'd just be better off ditching alot of their 'RPG' mechanics/stats and going to more of a visceral action approach instead of trying to stradle the fence and do both.  (which umtimatly ends up with a watered down version of both aspects) But we know it's all about trying to please everyone with Bethesda, and attract both types of fans, which just means more $$$ to them)

     The Vault Dweller said it best with his review of Obliuvion... 

 "An RPG for casual players, brilliant !! Why ? Any gripes about the action elements will be met with, well it's really an RPG, duh ! And any complaints about the RPG elements are met with, well this isn;t your grandpas RPG with skill checks and dice rolls, it's an action RPG, for the next generation, duh" !!

What? Skyrim has removed a lot of the direct interaction with stat systems which were in Oblivion move anymore in that direction and you may as wll call it action adventure and dispense with the upgrade system entirely. Which is quite patently daft. They limited the stat basis into 3 key areas and expanded the talent systems without the convoluted system of Oblivion.

Oblivion's system added a layer of needless complication, it didn't really add anything to the game, rather it seemed to muck things up if you chose the wrong skills or stats and you were stuck carrying it through the game. Skyrim's is more flexible rather than adhearing to the rigid stereotypes, there is nothing wrong with stat systems, but unless it's pointlessly convoluted.

Whilst pleasing everyone, pfffft, please. It appeals to the same crowd that it always had, or did the 11+ million sales just miraculously pop in due to faries? The buyers new what they were getting in Skyrim, because they had played the previous games before, or are the new crowd also avid followers of Morrowind and Oblivion. Bethesda explained and showed the new system before hand. Did it attract new players? Well obviously, that's the point. Except they did so without eviscerating the IP in the process, unlike others whom will remain unamed.

Whilst the skill checks are still there, the talent trees provide benefits and allow one to achieve acts far easier than would be able to normally, or does RPG entail being unable to pick a lock simply because I didn't put points into lock picking. Skyrim doesn't let me  effectively pick master locks  without the perks put into a tree, but it doesn't poke me in the eye and laugh because I didn't. I can, but I need a lot of lock picks. The same is true of most perks. You want to be good the put the points into it, but it doesn't penalise you for not doing so.

Edit:

As for combat, My God. Improving from Oblivion is a bad thing? So, if they do so they are quite obviously appealing to the action adventure crowd and should dispense with the RPG style?

Modifié par billy the squid, 20 février 2012 - 10:39 .

[HoonDing]

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

I've been playing The Witcher 2 this weekend and trying hard not to compare the two games but Skyrim has really spoiled me. The high res pack and lack of invisible walls are something I'll appreciate a lot going back. Plus just the fact of having my own character versus someone else's. The dialogue is a lot more sophisticated in TW2, though, as is the general political setup.

I tried replaying it a few months back after finishing Roche's path, but got bored quickly.

First Witcher game felt much more open, had way more enemy variety, more complex alchemy system and even the combat felt more smooth (due to the excellent animations) while Witcher 2 combat is a clunky mess. Story was okay, I guess, but the part I was really interested in (the continuation of Geralt trying to retrieve his lost memories) was dealt with in quite an unsatisfying way (and of course, the fact that Geralt somehow ended up with Triss with no sign of Shani, lolol). 

I think I'll try again when the Enhanced Edition (or whatever) is out. 

[billy the squid]

virumor wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

I've been playing The Witcher 2 this weekend and trying hard not to compare the two games but Skyrim has really spoiled me. The high res pack and lack of invisible walls are something I'll appreciate a lot going back. Plus just the fact of having my own character versus someone else's. The dialogue is a lot more sophisticated in TW2, though, as is the general political setup.

I tried replaying it a few months back after finishing Roche's path, but got bored quickly.

First Witcher game felt much more open, had way more enemy variety, more complex alchemy system and even the combat felt more smooth (due to the excellent animations) while Witcher 2 combat is a clunky mess. Story was okay, I guess, but the part I was really interested in (the continuation of Geralt trying to retrieve his lost memories) was dealt with in quite an unsatisfying way (and of course, the fact that Geralt somehow ended up with Triss with no sign of Shani, lolol). 

I think I'll try again when the Enhanced Edition (or whatever) is out. 

 Yeah, a suprised "O hai Triss" I liked the story more, especially the machiavellian political aspects. Although Geralt finding his memories was more of a theme in the background, rather than being the main focus,I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing. As it let me explore and find out a lot more about the conflict and the ongoing
politics of the Northern Kingdoms and  who the hell the Kingslayers were.

In that respect it does set things up quite nicely for TW3 regarding the wild hunt, Letho's involvement, his companions and how they helped Geralt.

[Gotholhorakh]

Haplose wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...
I think at this point they'd just be better off ditching alot of their 'RPG' mechanics/stats and going to more of a visceral action approach instead of trying to stradle the fence and do both.  (which umtimatly ends up with a watered down version of both aspects) 

I hope this will NOT happen. When it becomes a typical action game I'll loose interest.

...oh and I agree, the combat is fine. Haven't played any game where it was noticably better (comparable at best).

I think that other games do purely physical skill-based melee combat very well, and are better at that because it's their focus, unlike Skyrim. I don't thin Skyrim is less fun than these given its particular gameplay style.

I think it's a misapprehension that Skyrim is an awkward compromise rather than being exactly the kind of experience the developers wished to put together - personally I think fighting in Skyrim is superlatively fun and hangs together rather well.

(I think Skyrim has been crying out for a M&B mod since day one as it would be awesomesauce, but I don't think the core game is defective through the lack of it - the game would not be the same and I bet loads of people would hate it.)

virumor wrote...
I tried replaying it a few months back after finishing Roche's path, but got bored quickly.

First
Witcher game felt much more open, had way more enemy variety, more
complex alchemy system and even the combat felt more smooth (due to the
excellent animations) while Witcher 2 combat is a clunky mess. Story was
okay, I guess, but the part I was really interested in (the
continuation of Geralt trying to retrieve his lost memories) was dealt
with in quite an unsatisfying way (and of course, the fact that Geralt
somehow ended up with Triss with no sign of Shani, lolol). 

I think I'll try again when the Enhanced Edition (or whatever) is out. 

I just couldn't get on with the first game. I think amusingly (given my point above about Skyrim) that the melee combat gameplay just deflated my enthusiasm, as did the gratuitous/immature stuff and the cack-handed voice acting and writing. I could see a lot of love in the game, but it was more noticed in a spirit of "wow, I should soooo be really enjoying this... wonder why I'm not?"

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 20 février 2012 - 11:26 .

[Addai]

virumor wrote...

First Witcher game felt much more open, had way more enemy variety, more complex alchemy system and even the combat felt more smooth (due to the excellent animations) while Witcher 2 combat is a clunky mess. Story was okay, I guess, but the part I was really interested in (the continuation of Geralt trying to retrieve his lost memories) was dealt with in quite an unsatisfying way (and of course, the fact that Geralt somehow ended up with Triss with no sign of Shani, lolol). 

I think I'll try again when the Enhanced Edition (or whatever) is out. 

I agree that everything gameplay-wise was better in TW1, which I'd never thought I'd say, because I didn't particularly like the combat in TW1.  I've gotten used to it now in TW2 so am able to ignore the annoying stuff and mash my way through.  Maybe other people enjoy all the bombs and traps and stuff but I find the controls so clunky that I'd rather just ignore it.  Story-wise I like TW2 better.

FYI to those who aren't Ulfric haters *not naming any names* ... I uploaded a video of some of his dialogue that somehow a lot of people seem to miss.  It's about his upbringing at High Hrothgar and how he ended up as jarl.

[Barbarossa2010]

bussinrounds wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

   The truth hurts, huh ?

  What's with this, only comment if it's positive bs ?   I'm not saying anything outlandish or outrageous.  WTF ?
What do you want, just a continuous circle jerk of admiration constantly ?    How about not being so defensive over a game and learn to handle some criticisms ?   If you can't handle it, maybe you should be the one to

You mad bro?

No actually, I like the original idea.  You really ought to:

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 21 février 2012 - 02:26 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

   The truth hurts, huh ?

  What's with this, only comment if it's positive bs ?   I'm not saying anything outlandish or outrageous.  WTF ?
What do you want, just a continuous circle jerk of admiration constantly ?    How about not being so defensive over a game and learn to handle some criticisms ?   If you can't handle it, maybe you should be the one to

You mad bro?

No actually, I like the original idea.  You really ought to:

I have no idea wtf is going on in that screenshot, its a killcam, looks like the place with the ES, but wtf is that you killed?

[Medevila]

happy_daiz wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And its so cool finding random things even after playing for 100+ hours. Like wandering around and seeing a cabin in the woods with a guy that looks like he's sleeping, only to see he's dead. Read the journal and the poor guy chronicled how he was dying of Rockjoint. Poor guy, I mean, hell, thats more than I cared about most of the characters in DA2 and this guy didn't say a word!

Did you see his dog? It makes it worse.

The first time I met Meeko, I didn't realize any of that was there, and just happened to get attacked by a dragon when I was nearby. I heard a dog barking, but couldn't see him. Once the fight was over, discovered said dog...dead. Then I found the house. And the owner. And the journal. I was very upset, and reloaded my last save, and haven't been back. I can't bear the thought of inadvertently being the cause of his death.

Ahaha wow, killing Meeko. That's pretty sad. 

[Yrkoon]

bussinrounds wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The combat is fine. Say something productive or GTFO, this is getting old.

   The truth hurts, huh

What truth?

That Skyrim's combat isn't for ADD addled little teens who measure awesomeness by how many miles per hour their swords swing, and how many awesomesauce explosions per second you see?

And your comments don't hurt.  They annoy... like an annoying mosquito at a picnic. 

I'm with the others here: Go away.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 21 février 2012 - 03:45 .

[Brockololly]

FINALLY finished the civil war and main quest!

My reaction upon finally seeing and hearing Sovngarde for the first time:


So. Damn. Cool.

That is why I play video games. ****ing Awesome with a Capital A. Well played Bethesda, well played.

[Addai]

I also thought it was very cool, Brock, and so was the scene with the dragons circling and the resolution with Paarthurnax and Odahviing.

Then you go on Bethsoft forum and see the chorus of "meh."  WTF do these children want.

Anyway...

[Haplose]

I agree. I liked the resolution (particularly the atmosphere) a lot. Weak ending? Bah...

[Dutchess]

Elhanan wrote...

I am having some glitch trpoubles, but those are of my own creation.

Had made it to 52nd with my Orc, and found the Blocking perks were not working well for my style (eg; must sprint to use top perk, and I tend to play in Stealth). So I dropped my level back to 40th from a past save, and then added to a few pts back to some skills, and went back to playing.

When I returned to Whiterun, I was appraoched by a mage to test spells, and then a moment later, another mage wished to duel. Thing is; have not visited the College on this path quite yet. Guess I will have to expect the unexpected.

Note: It is rather fulfilling to be able to best any foe using their own weapon choices. And if it is a Mage, having an ample Resist Magic score gives me smiles while erasing theirs.

I have been challenged for a magical duel as well before I had joined the College, so I don't think it is a bug. If your character uses magic, you can be challenged. I conjured a sword and hacked the idiot into pieces. He was whining: "hellooooooo, this is a magical duel, as with magic?". What, my magical sword is not magic to you?