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[Bonanza16]

TES games are very VERY lacking compared to DA:O and the ME series IMO. And the fact that BioWare is checking Skyrim aggressively during the development of DAIII makes me upset.

Modifié par Bonanza16, 25 mars 2012 - 02:52 .

[Yrkoon]

Oh indeed.  ES  games like Skyrim are  lacking.  They lack  Dragon Age's Exploration.  They lack Dragon Age's character customation,  They lack Dragon Age's freedom.  They lack Dragon Age's Questing.  They lack Dragon Age's  living, interactive World and people.  They lack Dragon Age's   player choices.  They lack Dragon Age's political intrigue.  They lack Dragon Age's  Beauty.   LOL


I suspect that many people on this forum have  never  actually played  Skyrim, and are simply  guessing.  Guessing wrongly, btw, and sounding bizzare in the process.


But don't worry about what Bioware said.  The only thing Bioware's studios can even afford to emulate from Skyrim is probably  its Xbox controller support for PC.  They don't have the time or financial resources to copy anything else.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 mars 2012 - 03:15 .

[Elhanan]

Bonanza16 wrote...

TES games are very VERY lacking compared to DA:O and the ME series IMO. And the fact that BioWare is checking Skyrim aggressively during the development of DAIII makes me upset.

I cannot speak for anyone else; nor critique any other TES product, as Skyrim is my first. And I speak as one that also prefers the tales and depth of Bioware's writing, as well as Companion AI.

But I would be one happy camper if Bioware were to unbind their class restrictions, and allow the Player to use the mechanics I have enjoyed in Skyrim. The realistic art designs are incredible and beautiful, and the physics of the world are often breathtaking, as I have a RL fear of falling from heights. Cannot mention how many times I simply stood on a ledge looking on a horizon while feeling a bit weak in the knees.

I know this is possible; have already seen some of it.

DAO offered more class freedom than DA2; simply reverse course, and allow the Player more of a hand at the helm. And TOR has jumping and falling; find someway to add swimming, and were cooking!

Actually, they may add that as optional, as well as Crafting!

These are all great games, IMO; could possibly be combined to make something even better. IMO.

[Joy Divison]

Bonanza16 wrote...

TES games are very VERY lacking compared to DA:O and the ME series IMO. And the fact that BioWare is checking Skyrim aggressively during the development of DAIII makes me upset.

If what you said were true about Bioware, it would make me very happy.

The latest I've heard from Laidlaw was DA wasn;t going to do a "180 turn" because "that was already done" or something like that.

And Gaider recently said that voiced protagonist is already decided bc/ they are married to the cinematic aspects of story-telling.

Fear not, your DA3 will be just like DA2.

I didn't realize DA2 was as substandard as it was until I played Skyrim.

[android654]

Lacking in what way? The world of Skyrim has done an immensely better job at making itself feel alive with a history and a future unlike DA. The side quests are so numerous and in some cases expansive that they could be solo campaigns unlike DA. There are more variables to choices and how the world reacts to you than in DA. You have much more control of how you choose to act, build your character, and fit in society. You're not held by the hand to complete things, instead you have to consider your actions at almost every turn. The only thing DA has a slight advantage is in a voiced protagonist and a interactive team, everything else is lacking when compared to Skyrim.

[android654]

Double Post

Modifié par android654, 25 mars 2012 - 05:09 .

[Nameless one7]

android654 wrote...

Lacking in what way? The world of Skyrim has done an immensely better job at making itself feel alive with a history and a future unlike DA. The side quests are so numerous and in some cases expansive that they could be solo campaigns unlike DA. There are more variables to choices and how the world reacts to you than in DA. You have much more control of how you choose to act, build your character, and fit in society. You're not held by the hand to complete things, instead you have to consider your actions at almost every turn. The only thing DA has a slight advantage is in a voiced protagonist and a interactive team, everything else is lacking when compared to Skyrim.

Skyrim's quests besides the main quest seem boring ot me, but I've only played the College of Winterhold and Companion quest lines for side quests.

[Elhanan]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Skyrim's quests besides the main quest seem boring ot me, but I've only played the College of Winterhold and Companion quest lines for side quests.

Thing is with Skyrim, there are so many Quests, dungeons, Forts, ruins, and the like, that while some may lack depth, there are many gems out there to be discovered.

For instance, while I dislike the disabling of the terms of the Truce in the Main quests, it is because I was made to care about them. The Civil War allows some wonderful interaction with various NPC's, and offers a different way to approach play.

The Dark Brotherhood goes on a path I rarely travel in games (prefer White Hats; not Black and/or Red), but the storyline gave me the opportunity to do so, and offers some delicious side dishes.

And as for the Companions, be sure to read the journal of Kodlak; gives seasoning to this bunch.

[HoonDing]

I find neither DA:O's storyline or any of Bethesda's post-Morrowind TES games' storylines engaging. It's all typical epic fantasy fluff.

Anyway, Dragonbone weapons mods are out, doesn't look too shabby.

Modifié par virumor, 25 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[LobselVith8]

greengoron89 wrote...

I do admit some of the Daedric quests make me choke up on the final decision points - particularly Taste of Death, Pieces of the Past, and Waking Nightmare. Never could bring myself to kill Silus or Erandur - and I could only will myself to continue playing after completing Taste of Death once.

Other Daedric quests I've done weren't too bad - and sacrificing some cur to Boethiah shouldn't be too much trouble as long as I can find someone I'm comfortable doing that to.

On a slightly related note, did anyone find Malacath's voice to be hilariously absurd? He talks like a damn professional wrestler, for crying out loud - half-expected him to shout "SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!" when I heard him talk the first few times.

I like that the Daedric tasks provide you with different means of resolving them - you can help or kill the cultists in Taste of Death, you can help Erandur rid the world of a daedric artifiact or gain the Skull of Corruption, and you can claim Mehrunes' Razor or spare Silus Vesuius and defy Mehrunes Dagon. I created two protagonists to accomplish these types of tasks differently - including the decision to side with either the Legion or the Stormcloaks.

Malacath, the God of Orcs... the wrestlers of Nirn.

[happy_daiz]

Bonanza16 wrote...

TES games are very VERY lacking compared to DA:O and the ME series IMO. And the fact that BioWare is checking Skyrim aggressively during the development of DAIII makes me upset.

On a purely superficial level, I sincerely hope they are checking out Skyrim - if nothing else, for the outstanding visuals. I don't care what engine or software BW is using for DA and ME, they need to dump it. Even the best-looking characters in either series look like claymation compared to the realism of Skyrim. I was shocked - nay, appalled - when I saw the terrible hands in ME3 (and DA2). Seriously? Nobody at BW can make realistic hands? Or hair? Or beards? I can barely bring myself to watching playing ME3 again, and I gave up on DA2 long ago.

If they are looking in to Skyrim's depth of writing, "living" environment, and the like, I say all the power to them. There is nothing more satisfying than feeling like your decisions DO make a difference - and seeing and hearing proof of it. For instance, even something as simple as whether or not you took a cutting of the Eldergleam tree; or took the pilgrim along, and got a sapling, the tree in Whiterun is different. (If you took a cutting, the full tree blooms, over time. If you got a sapling, only part of the tree blooms).

People react to decisions you've made, and do not merely stand in one place, a la Kirkwall in DA2. Heck, even RAGE did that better, but I digress. These things have all been said before.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 26 mars 2012 - 06:24 .

[LobselVith8]

Addai67 wrote...

android654 wrote...

From the looks of it, I could spend 100 hours without touching the main campaign and still have a lot to do.

Easily!  But I recommend not doing everything on one character.  It sort of ruins the RP aspect, for me anyway.  The Dark Brotherhood and Thieves' Guild quests are some of the best IMO, and naturally work best on a thief/ assassin type of character.

I've approached it the same way, and I found it the most entertaining to handle it that way. Skyrim is large enough that there are always new places to discover and learn about, and even some quests that you stumble upon that you might not have even known about originally. Having multiple protagonists is also good because some quests offer different methods and rewards in how the protagonist resolves them.

I focused on the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood with my stealthy Spellsword character, who fulfilled all the pacts for the Daedric Princes to the letter, while I went through the College of Winterhold with my pure mage protagonist, who openly defied Azura to help create the Black Star. Arnbjorn taking notice of my Spellsword protagonist being a werewolf was a nice nod that connected the two factions, while I felt that the Companions' views towards mages and magic made it unlikely for my pure mage protagonist to approach the group (which I felt would be more plausible with a Spellsword).

[Bonanza16]

Before reading, understand that each person has his/her own opinions. If I dislike Skyrim for whatever reasons, it doesn't automatically imply that I haven't played the game. What kind of logic, or lack thereof, is that? In fact, I did. I even played Oblivion and FO3 for that matter and while I prefer F:NV better, I still refer to FO3 as a good game.
IMO, Bethesda is only good at creating a world filled with small details that add up to create a seemingly interesting world. I don't find the exploration of dungeons particularly interesting. After all, they are just areas filled with generic enemies. Bandits, draugrs and trolls? The idea of scouting areas without a particular purpose does not seem thrilling. In addition, the pacing seems a bit odd. If you are dragonborn and the world faces impending doom why would you bother doing side quests, the majority of which seem irrelevant? For instance, in one mission, you get drunk and you have to retrace your steps?
As well, all quests essentially involve travelling form one point to another and culminate in killing a target. The only choice the player is faced with is the manner in which the target is disposed of. That, I can agree.You can use magic, archery, stealth, swords, shields, daggers, shouts and mixing any one combat style in the process. However, choices beyond that is limited. The persuasion skill is underused. Dialogue choices are non-existent. It's either listen or walk away. And walking away is option, if you don't want to listen. Really. Unlike BioWare games, conversations are basically interrogation.
Voice acting is terrible and I notice it right at the beginning. I really can't stand it but it's just my opinion. I could write more about it but I doubt it would change anything.
It's just my opinion amidst thousand others and if what I hear is true, most of them are extremely positive. Bethesda games are just not my cup of tea. I derive no pleasure in exploring several caves only to find random loot (clutter) and generic enemies. I prefer a game with a well-defined storyline, with  side quests that merge well with it, lots and lots of dialogue choices and solid voice-acting but that's just me.
Oh, and no need to be angry about it. My opinion is not going to prevent Bethesda from making more games like Skyrim. Other game developers will probably borrow elements from it. It's not a course of action that I would recommend but hey, what can you do about it. If anything, I should be angry because the consensus is that Skyrim is a great game.  

[Elhanan]

Bonanza16 wrote...

Before reading, understand that each person has his/her own opinions. If I dislike Skyrim for whatever reasons, it doesn't automatically imply that I haven't played the game. What kind of logic, or lack thereof, is that? In fact, I did. I even played Oblivion and FO3 for that matter and while I prefer F:NV better, I still refer to FO3 as a good game.

IMO, Bethesda is only good at creating a world filled with small details that add up to create a seemingly interesting world. I don't find the exploration of dungeons particularly interesting. After all, they are just areas filled with generic enemies. Bandits, draugrs and trolls? The idea of scouting areas without a particular purpose does not seem thrilling. In addition, the pacing seems a bit odd. If you are dragonborn and the world faces impending doom why would you bother doing side quests, the majority of which seem irrelevant? For instance, in one mission, you get drunk and you have to retrace your steps?

As well, all quests essentially involve travelling form one point to another and culminate in killing a target. The only choice the player is faced with is the manner in which the target is disposed of. That, I can agree.You can use magic, archery, stealth, swords, shields, daggers, shouts and mixing any one combat style in the process. However, choices beyond that is limited.

The persuasion skill is underused. Dialogue choices are non-existent. It's either listen or walk away. And walking away is option, if you don't want to listen. Really. Unlike BioWare games, conversations are basically interrogation.

Voice acting is terrible and I notice it right at the beginning. I really can't stand it but it's just my opinion. I could write more about it but I doubt it would change anything.

It's just my opinion amidst thousand others and if what I hear is true, most of them are extremely positive. Bethesda games are just not my cup of tea. I derive no pleasure in exploring several caves only to find random loot (clutter) and generic enemies. I prefer a game with a well-defined storyline, with  side quests that merge well with it, lots and lots of dialogue choices and solid voice-acting but that's just me.

Oh, and no need to be angry about it. My opinion is not going to prevent Bethesda from making more games like Skyrim. Other game developers will probably borrow elements from it. It's not a course of action that I would recommend but hey, what can you do about it. If anything, I should be angry because the consensus is that Skyrim is a great game.  

I respect your opinion. However, there may be some misinformation in there:

* The dungeons, ruins, forts, etc often do have a quest or purpose behing them. Seeking to gain Shouts with aid from the Greybeards is a good way to gain several. And they are so much more than randomized monsters, as they are seasoned with traps, puzzles, and othen times, specific lore.

* Scouting - may not be for everyone, but that is my favorite option. And again, this is possible, but not required, as some may wish to play a non-stealthy tank or mage, or even a rogue.

* Pacing - This is left to the indv Player. If one wishes to address the Main Quest immediatly, and complete it in urgency, this is entirely possible. If one wants to play the side quests, and hold off on the Main quest, that is also an option. And the game does not end after the Main quest; may continue to utilize the new Shouts one learned on the other various quests.

* The Radiant quest system has different goals for each faction. And as a member of the Thieve's Guild, one is encouraged to perform several of these without the use of violence; my own preference.

* VO - the VO for several characters is top notch, IMO. But then, I admire the talents of Max Von Sydow, Christopher Plummer, and Joan Allen among others. And just the notion I could have Lynda Carter as a temp Companion is a dream come true (but I digress).

I get that the game may not be for everyone, but based on this review alone it appears that much was missed, overlooked, or forgotten. And I am not a stalwart fan of Bethesda; my first game, but I am a fan of some overall fine work.

Modifié par Elhanan, 26 mars 2012 - 07:47 .

[Dutchess]

Bonanza16 wrote...

Voice acting is terrible and I notice it right at the beginning. I really can't stand it but it's just my opinion. I could write more about it but I doubt it would change anything.

Funny you say that, because I keep hearing the same voices as in DA in Skyrim.

[happy_daiz]

^ Funny you should say that! I just started another long-overdue playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas, and I'd swear I'm hearing some voices from Skyrim.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 26 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[Addai]

happy_daiz wrote...

^ Funny you should say that! I just started another long-overdue playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas, and I'd swear I'm hearing some voices from Skyrim.

Like Boone.    Except he only voiced dorks in Skyrim.

Doc Mitchell (the guy who fixes you up in Goodsprings) = Tullius

I think there are a few more, I'll think of them...

edit:  OMG I just checked imdb and saw that "Brynjolf" voiced Deputy Beagle and the Mr. Gutsy robots.  Did not pick that one up.  Now I demand a mod that will make Deputy Beagle call you "lass."

Astrid's VA= some NCR females like Corporal Betsy and Angela Williams (the researcher at McCarran air field)

Oh, and of course the ubiquitous Yuri Lowenthal.  And the Dunmer males are voiced by Joshua Graham (from Honest Hearts DLC).

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[Bonanza16]

Really?

[Giggles_Manically]

You know does anyone else feel that at level 50 you can just laugh at anyone in the game?

I mean I get jumped by a bunch of Thalmor on my Orc and three hits later they all are dead.
Honestly I hope that any future content is harder because right now its not even a challenge to beat a dragon to death with your own hands.

I really do want to go back to Solstheim though.
Bloodmoon was an awesome expac.

[Giggles_Manically]

happy_daiz wrote...

^ Funny you should say that! I just started another long-overdue playthrough of Fallout: New Vegas, and I'd swear I'm hearing some voices from Skyrim.

"Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter" doesn't it? 

[Dutchess]

Bonanza16 wrote...

Really?

Yeah, you never noticed Fenris? Or Meredith? Zevran? 

[Addai]

Fenris finally found an imperium he could love. d'awwww

[Giggles_Manically]

I have to admit siding with the Stormcloaks is much easier since it allows me to demolish entire armies of Fenris over and over again.

Then again the Nords have some awesome VO to.
Ralof is pretty cool.

"Yuniper berries"