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The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Discussion Thread

Débuté par Dune01 , déc. 17 2010 04:46

37007 réponses à ce sujet

#19276
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Posté 27 avril 2012 - 05:43

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greengoron89 wrote...

Harsh, but perhaps not entirely unjustified - it certainly doesn't deviate much from the standard fantasy fare in regards to its plot structure.

But the brilliant thing about DA:O is that virtually nothing in its story is as it first seems - there are multiple unseen stories taking place just beneath the "main" story, and realizing them and how they all connect both to the main plot and to each other can completely alter your outlook on certain events, decisions, and characters.

Precious few other games I've played have managed to pull that off with such finesse.

There's also no shortage of food for thought provided by the game - I don't think I've pondered on and speculated about a game's characters, lore, history, main plot, and possible future events more than I have with DA:O.

DA2 managed to show signs of this, but failed to deliver it anywhere near the same level as its predecessor - and I have little faith DA3 will correct that.


I can agree with you there. One of the things I liked about DA:O was the shades of grey--from Loghain, to Sten, to Zevran, to Morrigan, there are lots of characters, not only in your party but in the world around you, with so much about them that wasn't cut & dried, wasn't black & white.

And I can agree that DA ][ did this to a lesser extent--but I think it still some things very well, in fact better than most games out there. Grey characters, for instance.


And, to bring this back on-topic,I have to confess I fail to see how storylines in Skyrim criss-cross, with the possible exception of the civil war questline and the very very end of the DB questline--though that one has virtually no impact. Perhaps however I'm comparing something you did not compare above?

#19277
Sajji
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 05:53

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Nope. But one is supposedly a master storyteller. Just throwing that out there.

Decapitating Thalmor? I prefer Incinerating their bodies, sucking their soul dry, and making their lifeless bodies fight for me


Please tell me you're not talking about Bioware here, because they've never been great storytellers.

As an aside, I'd been putting off the main quest (I had been instructed to find the horn or Jorgen Windcaller) and doing tons of sidequest stuff, but I decided today to continue a little bit and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I especially liked the part where I infiltrated the Thalmor embassy. Very...stealth-like.


Are you new to Skyrim or doing another playthrough?

#19278
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Posté 27 avril 2012 - 05:54

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Sajji wrote...

Are you new to Skyrim or doing another playthrough?


Nope, why?

#19279
Sajji
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:00

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I'm playing the same way you are. Taking my time, doing factions and oodles of side quests and dungeon crawls...working in the main plot here and there. Halfway or so through the civil war faction questline, too. About 240 hours in...

#19280
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Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:03

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I've got about 130 hours. I've done all of the main guild quests, though I have more side quests in them I think (just generic stuff). And I really haven't explored, hardly at all. I only recently started just setting off into the wilderness with trusty Aela at my back and exploring until my inventory was full.

#19281
Sajji
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:29

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Sweet, sounds like you're having fun. Exploring for me is the best part of the game...I don't fast travel anywhere. I'll use carriages sometimes if I'm overencumbered and far from my home, but even then I try to usually drop and then go find a shop to sell my extra loot.

#19282
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Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:49

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I confess I've done a lot more fast traveling that I should have...I wanted to be places, doing stuff, finishing quests. I've finally settled down though to just exploring, which is of course the strong point of TES games.

#19283
Yrkoon
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 11:58

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I was talking about "rich and complex." DA:O had one of the most hackneyed and over-used stories that I've ever seen. You know, Big Bad, unite forces to defeat big bad, and of course to unite them you need to do them a favor. Very generic.

Ugh...  that's kinda disengenuous.   Just about any  story can be  whittled down to its core  plot basics, thus making it sound cliche and simple.  Even planescape: torment's story, critically regarded as  one of the best  the gaming world has ever offered, can be described in a few words:  You have Amnesia, recover your memories and discover who you are  <----there you go.  a Progagonist who's lost his memories.  One of the most overused schticks in literary history.  But this doesn't change the fact that Planescape Torment's story, as a whole, was probably the best story in ANY medium.... ever. 

DA:O's storyline  was so NOT about  simply gathering armies to stop the blight/archdemon.  It was about everything else.  It was about an organization called the Grey Wardens.  It was about a land on the brink of civil war after the death of a king, and all the unusually dramatic players involved.  It was about 3 different races and their cultures.  It was about the protagonist rising from humble beginnings, or falling from noble/royal heights and having to re-establish him/herself in a new station.

And all of this was happening during a blight, which in and of itself is  a  story.  Blights aren't "cliche".  Old gods aren't chiche

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 avril 2012 - 12:17 .

#19284
HoonDing
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 02:17

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Daggerfall had a complex story involving political intrigue, betrayals, assassinations and backstabbing. It also had six endings. It even beats the Witcher games.

#19285
Brockololly
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 02:43

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New Skyrim DLC maybe dealing with the Falmer and adding crossbows?

#19286
chunkyman
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 02:57

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I hope the DLC has better writing than the main game.

#19287
Sajji
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 03:07

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I'd love to learn more about the Falmer. Those blind bastards used to seriously annoy me and sometimes ruin me at earlier levels. As a young mage, I used to get overwhelmed by Skyrim early on since I was still studying the art of magicka. So i did what any intelligent mage would do: picked up a (Falmor) axe and honed it, and used it so I could survive better.

I still have that axe...hanging on a main plaque in prestige in my main home in Markarth. Sentimental to my early hours...

#19288
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Posté 27 avril 2012 - 03:09

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Brockololly wrote...

New Skyrim DLC maybe dealing with the Falmer and adding crossbows?


Color me intrigued - I've been curious about the Falmer ever since Bloodmoon, and even more so after playing Skyrim.

And there was indeed that one in-game book that mentioned the Falmer were gathering numbers and could be preparing for a surface invasion - and I'd definitely be down for crushing a Falmer uprising.

Even more intriguing than that though is if a real Snow Elf yet lived, and also the possibility of learning more about the fate of the Dwemer.

Bring it on, Bethesda.

#19289
Sajji
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 03:14

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greengoron89 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

New Skyrim DLC maybe dealing with the Falmer and adding crossbows?


Color me intrigued - I've been curious about the Falmer ever since Bloodmoon, and even more so after playing Skyrim.

And there was indeed that one in-game book that mentioned the Falmer were gathering numbers and could be preparing for a surface invasion - and I'd definitely be down for crushing a Falmer uprising.

Even more intriguing than that though is if a real Snow Elf yet lived, and also the possibility of learning more about the fate of the Dwemer.

Bring it on, Bethesda.


I forgot about that...I read that in a book, too. It said they were preparing for a surface invasion...

#19290
Addai
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 03:14

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HoonDing wrote...

Daggerfall had a complex story involving political intrigue, betrayals, assassinations and backstabbing. It also had six endings. It even beats the Witcher games.


TES lore is full of such stuff, but in latter games most of it has been relegated to the background lore and in-game books.  The civil war quest line had a great setup, but the actual working out of it in gameplay was rather bland and on rails.

#19291
Barbarossa2010
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 04:33

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Brockololly wrote...

New Skyrim DLC maybe dealing with the Falmer and adding crossbows?



Well, it's about time to return to Skyrim, and this sounds like as good a reason as any.  Time to check out the new mods, DL the latest patches get back to my latest Nord and make some progress in his main story.  I need to leave all this Mass Effect 3 nonsense behind...talk about a lost cause, but I digress.

I know for sure there are at least three Dwemer ruins that I'm currently locked out of and need to enter the quests related to them to get inside.  Hell, killing Falmer sounds like the catharsis I need right now.

Hope all is well with everyone.

#19292
Giggles_Manically
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 04:40

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FALMER AND CROSSBOWS HOT DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry.
But oh I have wanted more lore on the Snow Prince since Bloodmoon.

I wonder if the Falmer are actually intelligent, or there are ones who regained their intelligence somewhere.

#19293
Jvolikas
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 08:09

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I confess I've done a lot more fast traveling that I should have...I wanted to be places, doing stuff, finishing quests. I've finally settled down though to just exploring, which is of course the strong point of TES games.


I tend to fast travel more than I should too, but I've still done plenty of exploring.  130 hours in and I stiil havent done the DB or Civil War Quests, only half of the main story (just met Paarthunax) and a lot of the little Thieves Guild quests jobs to do....theres just so much to check out!

#19294
Cyberarmy
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 04:53

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Brockololly wrote...

New Skyrim DLC maybe dealing with the Falmer and adding crossbows?



AW YEAH!

Snow elves and snow elf prience?If thats true a very interesting DLC. A full scale falmer invasion maybe?
Or even "The return of the Dwarves" O_o

#19295
chunkyman
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:02

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Cyberarmy wrote...
"The return of the Dwarves" O_o


I hope not. :sick:

I don't want them fiddling too much with dwarf lore.

Modifié par chunkyman, 28 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

#19296
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:21

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The return of the Dwemer would best be left for TES VI, or another future entry in the series, as it's too cataclysmic an event to relegate to an expansion pack.

The Dwemer would not be the good guys in that game, either - everything I've seen points to them being very ruthless.

Perhaps, however, this Falmer DLC could shed some more light on the Dwemer - and should their return be in the cards, perhaps Bethesda will foreshadow it.

#19297
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Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:29

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Yrkoon wrote...

Ugh...  that's kinda disengenuous.   Just about any  story can be  whittled down to its core  plot basics, thus making it sound cliche and simple.  Even planescape: torment's story, critically regarded as  one of the best  the gaming world has ever offered, can be described in a few words:  You have Amnesia, recover your memories and discover who you are  <----there you go.  a Progagonist who's lost his memories.  One of the most overused schticks in literary history.  But this doesn't change the fact that Planescape Torment's story, as a whole, was probably the best story in ANY medium.... ever. 

DA:O's storyline  was so NOT about  simply gathering armies to stop the blight/archdemon.  It was about everything else.  It was about an organization called the Grey Wardens.  It was about a land on the brink of civil war after the death of a king, and all the unusually dramatic players involved.  It was about 3 different races and their cultures.  It was about the protagonist rising from humble beginnings, or falling from noble/royal heights and having to re-establish him/herself in a new station.

And all of this was happening during a blight, which in and of itself is  a  story.  Blights aren't "cliche".  Old gods aren't chiche


I beg to differ, the main plot wasn't about those things at all. The main plot was about defeating the big bad.

What you're looking at is atmosphere, or world. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but things like the interplay of the races, and ambiguity of the Grey Wardens, or the rapidly culminating politics (Qunari, Orlais, etc.) are not really "story" They're part of the world. That's what BW is good at--creating good worlds with good lore to them--what we've mentioned about DA, the geth and the quarians in ME, AIs, the place of humanty in the galactic community, etc. Those aren't "stories," they're part of the world.

#19298
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Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:31

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Jvolikas wrote...

I tend to fast travel more than I should too, but I've still done plenty of exploring.  130 hours in and I stiil havent done the DB or Civil War Quests, only half of the main story (just met Paarthunax) and a lot of the little Thieves Guild quests jobs to do....theres just so much to check out!


I'm really gonna try to stick to walking most places from now on, or at the very least hiring carriages to go from hold to hold and then walking.

I actually just walked from Whiterun to Riften (on the road), during the main quest. Very circuitous.

#19299
Sajji
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 07:00

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Black Marsh for VI

#19300
Sigma Tauri
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 08:00

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chunkyman wrote...
I hope not. :sick:

I don't want them fiddling too much with dwarf lore.


Agreed. It's a stupid idea that the dwarves return.
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