37007 réponses à ce sujet

[Inquisitor Recon]

Any good mods out there that give you a bigger home in Whiterun? Whiterun is probably the most convenient spot in the game to store your stuff, but there isn't much room there. I suppose I could murder a family and take their home, but I wouldn't have display cases and nice stuff like that.

Better yet a mod to become Jarl of Whiterun, he has a nice setup there. I'll take it.

[Haplose]

[quote]Luc0s wrote...

[quote]Haplose wrote...

[Skyrim] also has superb level design,
[/quote]

Really? I thought the level design in Skyrim could use some improvement. The open-world is great, but the dungeons are quite linear, repetitive and boring actually. It would be great if Skyrim's dungeons were more like Zelda's dungeons. I'd like to see more puzzles and less linearity in the dungeons.
[/quote] 
Well, I'd have liked it if the main objective/target/treasure/artifact/whatever wasn't pretty much always at the end of the labirynth path and/or accessible at the very end, after you deafet all obstacles and/or gather all the keys.
Still the design is varied and, in many cases, very interesting and good.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

[Skyrim has] fairly balanced character development
[/quote]

You're kidding right? If you're talking about player character development, then I disagree, because that's one of the most broken things ever in Skyrim. Not that I mind, it's up to the player how "broken" they want their character to be. You can go for a super broken character with full heavy daedric armor with over 1600 armor protection, or you can decide to go with a more balanced character in Nightingale light armor with "only" 860 armor protection.
[/quote] 

Let's be realistic, in pretty much every noteworthy RPG I can think of you become "godlike" at the end. Kinda expect this from the genre. And sure, if you exploit certain things, you can become very nigh invincible in Skyrim as well.
But at least on Master, I often feel weak and squishy like a kitten before a certain threshold...

Did you play the earlier ES installments? Boy, now these were a mess. Oblivion in particular with it's counter-intuitive character power development.

[quote] 
If you're talking about character development as in the development of characters (NPCs) around you, then again, I have to disagree. I found most characters in Skyrim pretty shallow.
[/quote] 
Okay, agreed. Still they fulfill their roles and fit the setting, atmosphere. Again, much better then the army of clones from Morrowind.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

and gameplay mechanics (this must be a first for an Elder Scrolls title!).
[/quote]

The gameplay was "okay" at best. Still could use a lot of improvement. I especially don't like the power-attacks in Skyrim. It makes my character feel like an uncontrollable projectile. Maybe I'm just a n00b, but I rarely actually hit the enemy when I make a power-attack. Often I just charge past the enemy or something like that. Really annoying. That's one of the reason why I play assassin and mage characters only. As an assassin or mage you don't have to deal with that crap.
[/quote] 
Well, it's not perfect for sure. Still one of the better real-time, arcade fight systems I can think of. Gothic 3 was maybe better.. . except all the mess they made with weapon reaches. Fights in Risen were too drawn-out and too twitchy for my taste.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

An almost endless supply or fun in a rich, living world.
[/quote]

A rich living world... where every NPC has the same voice-actor and says the same thing over and over again... That kind of stuff really keeps me from saying that Skyim is a "rich living world". The world itself is amazing, but I wouldn't say it's a "rich living world".
[/quote] 
The world is teeming with life. In regard to your critique, good luck writing some advanced AI which will provide the endless witty one-liners for your enjoyment. Name one computer game where (especially generic) NPC dialogue wasn't repetetive. I dare you!

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

And most surprisingly, compared with the earlier ES games, it's not very repetetive at all (well, except if you grind some guild radiant quests - but what's the point, really? or visit a bit too many draugr-infested catacombs).
[/quote]

Which happens all the time if you play the game the way it was meant to be played (as in, doing quests and trying to progress through the story).
Sure, it's true that Skyrim is far less repetitive than Oblivion or Morrowind, but the game still suffers from repetition. It's not really all that bad, but still something that could and should be improved.
[/quote] 

Radiant quests are hardly "the way the game was meant to be played". I rather consider them an extra mile for the die-hard fans. The game has so much original, unique content, that it can provide literally hundreads of hours of enjoyment without being repetetive. Well okay, the draugr crypts are a bit of a plague.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

I think for me it's one of the best computer games I have played. Far above the DA franchise, for sure.
[/quote]

Far above the DA franchise? Yeah, no doubt. DA2 sucks. The best computer game ever? Well yeah, maybe for you, but certainly not for me.
[/quote] 

Well, I didn't say the best game evah. I would't quite put it over PS:T or Fallout 1 & 2. Probably not even above Neverwinter Nights. But still damn good.

[Haplose]

[quote]Luc0s wrote...

[quote]Haplose wrote...

Let's be realistic, in pretty much every noteworthy RPG I can think of you become "godlike" at the end. Kinda expect this from the genre. And sure, if you exploit certain things, you can become very nigh invincible in Skyrim as well.
But at least on Master, I often feel weak and squishy like a kitten before a certain threshold...
[/quote]

Nonsense. I can list several RPGs where you're not a total god at the end of the game. Mass Effect, Dragon Age and most noteworthy, The Witcher 2.

Try playing The Witcher 2 on 'Dark mode' hardest difficulty. In Dark mode you need special legendary gear to have a chance of survival in the first place. Unlike Daedric armor in Skyrim, Dark armor in The Witcher 2 doesn't make you a complete god. It makes the game easier and less insane (trust me, Dark mode is insanely hard), but you'll never feel that you're an overpowered god.

That's what I love about The Witcher 2. No matter how strong you get, a dragon kan still OHKO you with a simple fireball. And that's how it should be in my opinion. Dragons in Skyrim feel like total pushovers once your each lvl 51, even on Master. In The Witcher 2, the dragon you have to face in Chapter 3 (near the end of the game), is truly godlike and you're totally outmatched by the dragon. You'll have to play it smart to even have a chance against this godlike creature. Geralt is totally weak and puny compared to this colossal beast. And that's how it should be. That's how Skyrim should have been too.
[/quote] 

I did feel plenty strong in DA at high level (on Nightmare). Maybe not untouchable, but as long as I paid attention, I could crush my enemies with them barely standing up (played a knockdown two-hander).
Of course there are various degrees of super-overpowered characters. Admittedly ES games go pretty far to the untouchable realm. But Skyrim is notable here that some characters can be very squishy - even moreso at the end. Robed mages come to mind. So do Stealthy Rogues which do not invest in Smithing. One hit is often all it takes....

But I definately like character development to have a significant impact on gameplay. Much greater then my twich abilities. I prefer stat-based games to arcade games. And I detest meaningless, redundant talents (like so many in DA). The Witcher 2 is also at fault here. There are too many useless passive skills (+5% added to the base critical chance? puhleese...). What's worse, the game's forcing you to take many (almost) useless talents you don't want to get the good stuff. The feeling of progression is kinda meh. Certainly weak compared with Witcher 1.

But to each his own.... 
 
[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

Well, it's not perfect for sure. Still one of the better real-time, arcade fight systems I can think of. Gothic 3 was maybe better.. . except all the mess they made with weapon reaches. Fights in Risen were too drawn-out and too twitchy for my taste.
[/quote]

The Witcher 2 has a better real-time arcade fight system, a MUCH better system (well, if you play it with an Xbox controller, I didn't like the keyboard+mouse controls).

Have you played The Witcher 2? The combat in that game is simply amazing!
[/quote] 

Yes, I have played both Witcher games. I'm Polish and know them pretty well. In fact I've also read all Sapkowski's books many years ago.
I guess we will have to simply agree to disagree regarding the gameplay superiority of either game.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

The world is teeming with life. In regard to your critique, good luck writing some advanced AI which will provide the endless witty one-liners for your enjoyment. Name one computer game where (especially generic) NPC dialogue wasn't repetetive. I dare you!
[/quote]

GTA 4 comes to mind. The Witcher 1 is also a good example where NPC didn't feel as repetitive as in Skyrim.

You see, I can accept that NPCs will always repeat the same thing over and over again. But I would have liked it if the NPCs in Skyrim were more silent. Right now they just talk TOO MUCH. They keep repeating the same crap way too often.

No but seriously, if I hear "I took an arrow to the knee" or "someone stole your sweetrole?" ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to rip someone's head off.
[/quote] 

Me, I'm not bothered about this. In fact I quite like  the "vocal" NPCs. Again, to each his own.

[quote] 
[quote]Haplose wrote...

Radiant quests are hardly "the way the game was meant to be played". I rather consider them an extra mile for the die-hard fans. The game has so much original, unique content, that it can provide literally hundreads of hours of enjoyment without being repetetive. Well okay, the draugr crypts are a bit of a plague.
[/quote]

Face it. Most quests are simple fetchquests. Whether it's a story quest or a side-quest, it's almost always like: "go to dungeon X, kill badguy Y and retrieve loot Z". That's the very definition of repetitive.
[/quote]
[/quote] 

Well, maybe. Don't mind it as long as it's coupled with good gameplay and interesting level design. Even better when there's a decent story as well.. maybe a unique theme... and pieces of unique lore about the location scattered around.

Modifié par Haplose, 18 mai 2012 - 01:12 .

[happy_daiz]

Luc0s wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You are stuck playing an ugly horrendously voiced guy where you watch a story.

Does every player character have to be a prettyboy? I find the fact that Geralt is an ugly bastard with a creepy voice rather refreshing. He's an unique character and far from a "Gary Stu", FAR FROM a "Gary Stu".

Not to rehash, but...I played through TW2 once, and honestly did like Geralt. However, I'm female. I know it would be sacrilege (and I would be struck down by the lore gods), but I would have preferred to play as female. The most I got to do was to change Geralt's outfit and hair. Big whoop. I'm more visual than that, and I would like to play as the same sex I am.

In Skyrim, I get to play any one of ten races. As a female. That looks the way I want her to. And yes, I can change their clothes (actually, more selection there, although light armors are very much "meh"), and style their hair, and even add war paint if I want. Or make them a werewolf. Or a vampire. Or a saint. Or a big meanie-head.

For some people, none of that stuff matters, but for me, it does.
Look at that, we're up to 800 pages in this thread!

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 mai 2012 - 01:56 .

[Joy Divison]

happy_daiz wrote...

Not to rehash, but...I played through TW2 once, and honestly did like Geralt. However, I'm female. I know it would be sacrilege (and I would be struck down by the lore gods), but I would have preferred to play as female. The most I got to do was to change Geralt's outfit and hair. Big whoop. I'm more visual than that, and I would like to play as the same sex I am.

In Skyrim, I get to play any one of ten races. As a female. That looks the way I want her to. And yes, I can change their clothes (actually, more selection there, although light armors are very much "meh"), and style their hair, and even add war paint if I want. Or make them a werewolf. Or a vampire. Or a saint. Or a big meanie-head.

For some people, none of that stuff matters, but for me, it does.

I don't recall "big meanie-head" being on the character selection screen

[happy_daiz]

Luc0s wrote...
I understand what you mean, but The Witcher is simply not that kind of game. The Witcher wouldn't be nearly as good as it is right now if you could fully customize your character to be what you want him/her to be. The fact that Geralt is a pre-made characters allows the writers to really flesh him out and make him a deep, compelling and believable character. But, to each their own I guess. No hard feelings.

Right, I get all that, and I understand what they were trying to do. So, taking character customization out of the equation, couldn't they have also made a female version of Geralt, and gotten the same story across? Same character, same trials and tribulations, merely a different gender? I suppose this would open up a can of worms, in regard to the slew of male prostitutes that would need to be made available for hire.

Luc0s wrote...
I have to say I like both approaches. I like The Witcher for it's amazing story and realistic and memorable characters. I like Skyrim for it's freedom and amazing sandbox experience.

Yes, on this we can agree.

And now, back to Skyrim.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 mai 2012 - 02:42 .

[RedArmyShogun]

happy_daiz wrote...

Luc0s wrote...
I have to say I like both approaches. I like The Witcher for it's amazing story and realistic and memorable characters. I like Skyrim for it's freedom and amazing sandbox experience.

Yes, on this we can agree.

Aye both work well, and fit for some games better than others. Like I doubt I could play any FF game without a fixed protagonist. Just as I could not play Fallout if it was fixed.

[Addai]

It's really off-base to call Geralt a Marty Stu- he is far more fallible than the dovahkiin, for instance. And as if every PC isn't god on [insert planet] anyway.

Eh, whatever. Both games work for me. Although I burned out on Skyrim and haven't played it in months. I'll be ready to play again when they bring out the DLC.

[happy_daiz]

^ OK, you've made your point. Hence why I prefer Skyrim over The Witcher.

On another note, I think it's cute how Skyrim guards call my Dunmer "little elf". I hadn't noticed it before, but she does seem shorter than my Altmer - they're giants.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 mai 2012 - 04:09 .

[Haplose]

Luc0s wrote...

Haplose wrote...

But I definately like character development to have a significant impact on gameplay. Much greater then my twich abilities. I prefer stat-based games to arcade games. And I detest meaningless, redundant talents (like so many in DA). The Witcher 2 is also at fault here. There are too many useless passive skills (+5% added to the base critical chance? puhleese...). What's worse, the game's forcing you to take many (almost) useless talents you don't want to get the good stuff. The feeling of progression is kinda meh. Certainly weak compared with Witcher 1.

If you didn't notice, in The Witcher 2 you can upgrade perks you take, kinda like enchanting in Skyrim. At the start of Skyrim, you make puny enchantments with only +3% extra damage etc. etc. But in the end, you can get +25% enchantments.

The Witcher 2 is like this as well. Every perk can be upgraded. So often a +5% extra critical chance can become +15% extra critical chance once you've upgraded that perk. So no, not many perks in The Witcher 2 are useless, not at all.

 
Then you've spent 2 precious talent points on a pretty useless skill, since that's still +15% of your base critical chance (which is often 0, depending on weapon).
Overall I think there are way too many passive skills in the Witcher, as opposed to active skills, which give new moves, tactical options and such.

 
But really, your argument is invalid because like I said, Skyrim also "suffers" from these "useless" perks and upgrades. In Skyrim you also start with perks like +5% extra damage, which later can become higher if you put more perk-points in them. And in Skyrim you also have to go through useless perks before you get to the good stuff in the perk-tree. It's almost exactly the same!

 

That's only partially true. Yes, there are less usefull perks in Skyrim also. And you sometimes have to pick them to climb up the constellation. But the passives tend to be strong. It's not +5% extra damage, that's +20% (and up to +100%, so not useless, but ESSENTIAL). Some say +5% after the first 20%, but in fact, in most cases that's an error. For example block gives 10% block chance for each level.

Haplose wrote...

Yes, I have played both Witcher games. I'm Polish and know them pretty well. In fact I've also read all Sapkowski's books many years ago.
I guess we will have to simply agree to disagree regarding the gameplay superiority of either game.

 
Well at least you know what you're talking about then. I can respect that and I can respect your opinion. Lets agree to disagree indeed.

By the way, what did yout hink about Sapkowski's books? I've read them in English. I think the translation to English is kinda "meh" but I still think they're great books! Sapkowski is an amazing writer, don't you think?

I agee he's a great author. I'm sure his books loose a lot of charm in the translation, since characters tend to speak highly stylized language, using quite many Polish words that are obsolete nowadays.

He's novels have solid roots in central-european history and folklore.
But regarding the Witcher, I generally prefer the short stories to the novels. The novels became a bit drawn out and a bit too melodramatic. I was also not too fond of the ending. So good thing we get to determine Geralt's future in the computer games

[Haplose]

Luc0s wrote...

Also, your idea doesn't work because Geralt has deep and complex love triangle with Triss and Yennefer. Turning Geralt into Geraldette would make that entire love triangle impossible. Unless Geraldette is e lesbian and all of the sudden Triss and Yennefer are also lesbians? No, that doesn't sound good at all...

Sounds like something Bioware could do nowadays

But more on-topic or rather off-topic, I'd like an opportunity to play as Ciri. This could also gain some popularity among the ladies. But I guess this would have to be a totally different game.... or maybe a huge branch with different chapters

[Elhanan]

If Skyrim only had a healthy dose of the storytelling ability of Bioware; no more emotionless marriages, and might even have a romance rather than lust to support them. Personally, I would take DA2 writing over the vast majority of that seen in TES V. Same goes for Companion AI; no more being shoved down stairs or into traps.

Yes, I believe Skyrim delivered an outstanding game, and one I enjoyed more than DA2, but that pleasure was generated by (as some are fond of stating) my own stories, mechanics, and some well written lore found in books, journals, etc. And I would take a well scripted game over another sandbox version almost any day; will have to measure sandbox by the standard seen in Skyrim, where Bioware has proven their talent many times over.

Modifié par Elhanan, 18 mai 2012 - 04:45 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Addai67 wrote...

It's really off-base to call Geralt a Marty Stu- he is far more fallible than the dovahkiin, for instance. And as if every PC isn't god on [insert planet] anyway.

Eh, whatever. Both games work for me. Although I burned out on Skyrim and haven't played it in months. I'll be ready to play again when they bring out the DLC.

I was there as well.  I took a couple of months off and spent it, regrettably, playing ME3.  A pretty sad day for me personally when a Bioware title has a more engaging MP mode than SP story...and that's all I think I'll say about that. 

Well, what's done is done, and I've happily returned to Skyrim and fully committed myself to my PC playthrough (which has been 100% pure win with amazing mods).  Taking a couple of months off has been incredibly refreshing.  Adventuring with the Dovahkiin throughout the awesomeness of Skyrim has proven to be a wonderful brain bleach to wipe away all the epic fail of ME3.

If you're on a self-imposed sabbatical, you are going to absolutely love returning to Skyrim.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 18 mai 2012 - 05:16 .

[Joy Divison]

Addai67 wrote...

It's really off-base to call Geralt a Marty Stu- he is far more fallible than the dovahkiin, for instance. And as if every PC isn't god on [insert planet] anyway.

Eh, whatever. Both games work for me. Although I burned out on Skyrim and haven't played it in months. I'll be ready to play again when they bring out the DLC.

I was in the same boat until lst night I rolled up a Breton two-hander.  I'm right back in

[happy_daiz]

^ Yay, Bretons! My first Skyrim character was a Breton, but I couldn't decide how I wanted to specialize, and ended up with a Jane of All Trades. Basically, average at everything, excelling at nothing. Resistances were broken during that time, too.

I think once DLC is out, I'll roll another Breton.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 mai 2012 - 06:51 .

[RedArmyShogun]

I might do another imperial. It just bugs me having blood on the ice broken, and this other quest saving some woman in a cave but ughhh all that time wasted if I do.

[Elhanan]

Luc0s wrote...

Are you kidding me? BioWare doesn't have storytelling abilities nor talent. They lost their last writing talent when they lost Drew Karpyshyn. ME2's story was "meh", DA2's story sucks and ME3's story is a complete and total joke.

I do agree that Skyrim's story is a bit shallow though. It would have been better. I also agree about the companion AI.

You mean that BioWare has proven their LACK of talent many times over.

Think a great many gamers and customers disagree with your opinion. No kidding....

[happy_daiz]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

I might do another imperial. It just bugs me having blood on the ice broken, and this other quest saving some woman in a cave but ughhh all that time wasted if I do.

I have two Imperials. I thought my first one was...not pretty, so I had to create a new one. Then again, I'm apparently collecting Dragonborn like trophies. Here is an album of my characters.

Oh, just start another one. Think of it as a fresh start?

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 mai 2012 - 05:56 .