Neither of which necessitate a cutscene to stimulate the imagination:
Beauty:
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Discussion Thread
Débuté par
Dune01
, déc. 17 2010 04:46
#20126
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:23
Barbarossa2010
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I suppose it comes down to two things for me in the interactive entertainment venue of modern RPGs...
Neither of which necessitate a cutscene to stimulate the imagination:
Beauty:
Neither of which necessitate a cutscene to stimulate the imagination:
Beauty:
Retour en haut
#20127
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:28
Barbarossa2010
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...and Badass:
Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 19 mai 2012 - 05:33 .
#20128
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:30
Barbarossa2010
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Well three actually...
M'aiq:
M'aiq:
Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 19 mai 2012 - 05:36 .
#20129
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:33
Yrkoon
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The moon(s) is(are) out. Was going to transform into a werewolf to commemorate the event, but... too mesmerized
Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 mai 2012 - 05:35 .
#20130
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:52
Barbarossa2010
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^Nice shot. Yeah, I find myself just staring up at the moon or the occasional aurora on many a night. So many moments of just...well beauty...interupted, of course, by the occasional Ancient Dragon or Draugr Deathlord butthead, but that's when the badass part kicks in I suppose.
If death by cutscene is the future of gaming...well if it comes at a cost of the above, then I don't want any part of it; and what a squandered opportunity and an utter failure it will have been for the industry to improve upon, and actually strive to reach the virtually unlimited potential of, this interactive medium of entertainment.
If death by cutscene is the future of gaming...well if it comes at a cost of the above, then I don't want any part of it; and what a squandered opportunity and an utter failure it will have been for the industry to improve upon, and actually strive to reach the virtually unlimited potential of, this interactive medium of entertainment.
#20131
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:03
Yrkoon
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Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I find myself just staring up at the moon or the occasional aurora on many a night. So many moments of just...well beauty...interupted, of course, by the occasional Ancient Dragon or Draugr Deathlord butthead, but that's when the badass part kicks in I suppose.
Aah, Like this?
yeah, I hate when that happens (well no I don't, but the interrupter always pays in blood.)
#20132
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:38
Addai
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Agreed on all. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie, and wouldn't pay $60 for it.Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I value your opinion, but I see no indicators or evidence to suggest that your preferences are, in fact, THE future. Other than you really, really think that's what should happen. What will be interesting to watch is what happens with FO4.
I really want FO4 nao.
#20133
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:46
Sajji
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Addai67 wrote...
Agreed on all. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie, and wouldn't pay $60 for it.Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I value your opinion, but I see no indicators or evidence to suggest that your preferences are, in fact, THE future. Other than you really, really think that's what should happen. What will be interesting to watch is what happens with FO4.
I really want FO4 nao.
It'll be next gen. Can't wait either.
#20134
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 10:59
Guest_Luc0s_*
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Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Anyway, about cutscenes:
Personally I'm under the impression that cutscenes are the future of video-games. The way Skyrim handles things will get old eventually and it's not the best way to get a story accross. Some people might prefer it, but then again, some people prefer oldschool text adventure/RPGs (the good old DOS games). That does NOT mean it will have a future in the video-game industry though.
I think we can all expect that more games will go the same route as Mass Effect, The Witcher and Metal Gear Solid went, like it or not.
What I personally hope to see in the future, is interactive cutscenes, the same way Heavy Rain handles their cutscenes. Who is familiar with Heavy Rain, will know what I mean.
And just because you think it, doesn't mean it truly has a future. How do any of those games in any of those series stack up to Skyrim's sales? I think this is a case of "my preference is the future, because it's my...well...preference. And any real evidence that doesn't support my preconceived notions, or those of the crowd I identify with, is simply going to be assumed away because it dimishes what I think should happen."
If you're going to take sales into the picture, I think all I need to say is "Call of Duty".
Not that I'm a huge fan of Call of Duty, but it is evidence that what I said is true. Call of Duty is 50% cutscenes and 50% on-rails shooting. Moreover, every new Call of Duty is basically the same as the previous Call of Duty and it still sells like candy. Skyrim sold 7 million copies in the first week. Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 sold 7 million copies on the first DAY.
Also, if we google "top 10 stories in video-games" , we see plenty of results op up that all have a nice list with the top 10 games with the best stories. All those top 10 lists, from each single site, are 10 cutscene-heavy games. No exception.
Several games praised for their story are: Uncharted, which is loaded with cutscenes, Metal Gear Solid, which is loaded with cutscenes, Deus Ex, which is loaded with cutscenes, Farenheid, which is loaded with cutscenes, and Final Fantasty, which is loaded with cutscenes.
To me, it's no surprise that the games that are often praised for their story are games that have plenty of cutscenes.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Personally I'm under the impression that cutscenes are fine for a very short and specific type of story-based game with minimal content, but are way overrated than the trend initially alluded to.
Metal Gears Solid proves you wrong. That game has plenty of gameplay content and even more cutscene content. It's also a game praised for it's story.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
If anything, the wild success of an RPG like Skyrim has proven beyond any doubt to the industry that the recent fad of filling up all that disk space with cutscenes is really not necessary, and that they can save that space for the content that (apparently) many players want in its stead.
It works for Skyrim becaude Skyrim is an open-world sandbox game that relies on exploring. The story is secondary in Skryim.
So yes, Skyrim can do without cutscenes and it works. But not every type of game can do without cutscenes. Story-driven games realy more heavily on cutscenes and for good reasons.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
What I personally hope to see are more games like Skyrim in the future; games that value player freedom and agency, and offer a mind-boggling amount of exploration, customization, crafting and player modification with a serviceable story.
I truly do hope games like these keep existing indeed. But meanwhile, the vast majority of the video-game industry is moving towards a more ation and story-driven approach that heavily relies on cutscenes.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
The rise of the Steam Workshop has already opened up to many new players the value and insane amount of fun to be had in modding, and that it's no longer just a geeky pastime for sun-sensitive troglodytes living in their undies in their basements. I personall think this is a trend that will grow in the future.
I hope you're right, but with games like Call of Duty selling buttloads of more copies than Skyrim, I'm affraid that the general future of the game industry will head more towards that trend than Skyrim's trend.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Hell, the rise of indies and upstarts is a great indicator to me of a future that may differ a bit from yours. You want to sell a couple of million copies, sure knock out a ME, or TW game. You want to sell over 10 million copies, you make a Skyrim. That's language the industry truly understands.
And if you want to sell over 20 million copies and break all records with pre-orderd ans sales numbers, you make a Call of Duty. THAT'S the language the industry truly understands.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I value your opinion, but I see no indicators or evidence to suggest that your preferences are, in fact, THE future.
Read this coment again. I've just provided you plenty of indicators what the future might hold for us.
Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Other than you really, really think that's what should happen. What will be interesting to watch is what happens with FO4.
I think and I hope that games such as Skyrim an FO will always keep existing, basically because there are still plenty of gamers who prefer these kind of games. Meanwhile, I expect the vast majority of the game industry moving forward to a more cutscene-heavy approach. Games like Skyrim will become a niche.
#20135
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 12:28
Elhanan
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Thought this discussion was about CRPG's; not Twitch gaming? My bad....
#20136
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 01:15
RedArmyShogun
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Oh god, can't we be done with this Skyrim Vs The Witcher 2 Pissing Match?
Different strokes for different folks and all that Jazz.
Like here is a much better topic, do we have any sort of leaks out on the DLC yet?
Different strokes for different folks and all that Jazz.
Like here is a much better topic, do we have any sort of leaks out on the DLC yet?
Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 19 mai 2012 - 01:16 .
#20137
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 01:21
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Elhanan wrote...
Thought this discussion was about CRPG's; not Twitch gaming? My bad....
No, the discussion that we ended up having was cutscenes v.s no cutscenes in video-games. I argued that cutscenes can create a certain emotional connection with the player that is simply impossible without cutscenes. Thats why, I argued, the story and presentation in Skyrim is more shallow than for example The Witcher 2.
Barbarossa tried to argue that Skyrim's formula without cutscenes it the most succesful because it was sold 10 million copies and that therefor Skyrim's formula is the future in video-game land. Well, if you want to go that route, then I simply have to point out Call of Duty's insane sales numbers. Call of Duty sold twice as much as Skyrim.
Does that mean Call of Duty is the future of video-gaming? I sure hope not, but one can't argue that games like that sell better than games like Skyrim.
Also, CRPGs and twich gameplay are not mutually exclusive. In fact, most CRPGS have a certain amount of twitch gameplay. Mass Effect has twitch gameplay, The Witcher has twitch gameplay, Fallout 3 has twitch gameplay, heck, even Skyrim has a bit of twitch gameplay!
#20138
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 01:22
Guest_Luc0s_*
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Confess-A-Bear wrote...
Oh god, can't we be done with this Skyrim Vs The Witcher 2 Pissing Match?
Different strokes for different folks and all that Jazz.
Like here is a much better topic, do we have any sort of leaks out on the DLC yet?
This discussion has gone far beyond Skyrim v.s The Witcher.
But you're right. I'm going to make a seperate topic for this discussion, so we can keep this topic on-topic about Skyrim.
And yeah, I'm also really curious about future Skyrim DLC.
#20140
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:36
Elhanan
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Luc0s wrote...
No, the discussion that we ended up having was cutscenes v.s no cutscenes in video-games. I argued that cutscenes can create a certain emotional connection with the player that is simply impossible without cutscenes. Thats why, I argued, the story and presentation in Skyrim is more shallow than for example The Witcher 2.
Barbarossa tried to argue that Skyrim's formula without cutscenes it the most succesful because it was sold 10 million copies and that therefor Skyrim's formula is the future in video-game land. Well, if you want to go that route, then I simply have to point out Call of Duty's insane sales numbers. Call of Duty sold twice as much as Skyrim.
Does that mean Call of Duty is the future of video-gaming? I sure hope not, but one can't argue that games like that sell better than games like Skyrim.
Also, CRPGs and twich gameplay are not mutually exclusive. In fact, most CRPGS have a certain amount of twitch gameplay. Mass Effect has twitch gameplay, The Witcher has twitch gameplay, Fallout 3 has twitch gameplay, heck, even Skyrim has a bit of twitch gameplay!
RE: Twitch gaming - As one that is unable to play games that require Twitch skills, I would say there is a difference between requiring WASD movement as in ME, Skyrim, etc, and that of the skills apparently needed to play many of the FPS games. While some CRPG's do have some occasional elements in them (eg; KOTOR Gunner mini-game) - my reason for only playing a single time - the majority of the RPG is not based on such need.
FWIW - I have never had great eye-hand coordination, have some partial nerve damage to arms and hands, and am disabled after having a stroke last year. I hated the KOTOR mini-game, but am fine and having a great time playing the SWTOR Ship Combat versions; much different critters. IMO.
#20141
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:39
RedArmyShogun
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-__- I'll come back when this is on topic again.
K Thx Bai.
K Thx Bai.
#20142
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 03:53
Elhanan
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Confess-A-Bear wrote...
-__- I'll come back when this is on topic again.
K Thx Bai.
heh! I was trying.
As one that usually only is able to play CRPG's (only a few exceptions), the need to retain writing and storytelling as the main focus of the genre is of increased importance to me. When I saw in the E3 game play vids that Skyrim could be played in 3rd Person, and did not demand use of Twitch style for play, it was then I chose to give this TES sandbox my first real try.
In fact, this thread may have my inquiries into such early, early in the postings; well before launch on 11-11-11.
#20143
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:05
Guest_Luc0s_*
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Elhanan wrote...
As one that usually only is able to play CRPG's (only a few exceptions), the need to retain writing and storytelling as the main focus of the genre is of increased importance to me. When I saw in the E3 game play vids that Skyrim could be played in 3rd Person, and did not demand use of Twitch style for play, it was then I chose to give this TES sandbox my first real try.
In fact, this thread may have my inquiries into such early, early in the postings; well before launch on 11-11-11.
Twitch style gameplay is every kind of gameplay that requires action and a quick reaction. Skyrim is exactly that. But I get it, you're not a very skilled gamer and Skyrim is indeed pretty easy, so it's not really a twitch game if you look at it that way.
You say that you find that writing and storytelling should be the main focus of an RPG, yet this is obviously not the case in Skyrim. The freedom, the sandbox experience and the ability to explore are obviously the main focus of any TES game. Story comes secondary in TES games.
#20144
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:23
Elhanan
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Luc0s wrote...
Twitch style gameplay is every kind of gameplay that requires action and a quick reaction. Skyrim is exactly that. But I get it, you're not a very skilled gamer and Skyrim is indeed pretty easy, so it's not really a twitch game if you look at it that way.
You say that you find that writing and storytelling should be the main focus of an RPG, yet this is obviously not the case in Skyrim. The freedom, the sandbox experience and the ability to explore are obviously the main focus of any TES game. Story comes secondary in TES games.
To be clear, you (among others) are not one that defines my choices; I am.
As one with eye-hand problems, I believe I know what is a Twitch game and what is not. And I did not get Skyrim for the freedom and sandbox - was a reason I held off for so long - , but the exquisite artwork and detailed aspects of the world seen in the gameplay vids.
And what kept me playing for over 800 hrs was not the ability to pick flowers or capture butterflies (which is kinda cool that it can happen), but is the overall game design, which contains some well told stories worth replaying several times. If the game had been the same standard as the marriages, it would have been placed on the shelf ages ago. But it was the drama and humor of better fare that kept me returning for more.
Yes; Skyrim writing could use improvement, but the mechanics of gameplay may be hard to beat. I hope to see future products that have both.
Modifié par Elhanan, 19 mai 2012 - 05:26 .
#20145
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:37
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Elhanan wrote...
Luc0s wrote...
Twitch style gameplay is every kind of gameplay that requires action and a quick reaction. Skyrim is exactly that. But I get it, you're not a very skilled gamer and Skyrim is indeed pretty easy, so it's not really a twitch game if you look at it that way.
You say that you find that writing and storytelling should be the main focus of an RPG, yet this is obviously not the case in Skyrim. The freedom, the sandbox experience and the ability to explore are obviously the main focus of any TES game. Story comes secondary in TES games.
To be clear, you (among others) are not one that defines my choices; I am.
I know. I'm simply saying that I find it curious that you puth so much emphasis on storytelling and writing as the main focus of a game, while these clearly aren't the main focus in Skyrim.
Elhanan wrote...
As one with eye-hand problems, I believe I know what is a Twitch game and what is not.
Well, sorry, no offense intended. I'm simply saying that Skyrim also has twitch elements to a certain extent.
Elhanan wrote...
And I did not get Skyrim for the freedom and sandbox - was a reason I held off for so long - , but the exquisite artwork and detailed aspects of the world seen in the gameplay vids.
What is the difference? Aren't you exploring the world to find and see all these details and different aspects of the world? So what's the difference?
Elhanan wrote...
but is the overall game design, which contains some well told stories worth replaying several times.
Well, I guess we both have different standards for storytelling. I didn't find the stories in Skyrim compelling or deep enough to keep me interested for very long. But that's fine, because story is not the reason why I play Skyrim anyway. I play Skyrim for the ability to explore and experience the freedom that this sandbox game has to offer.
For good storytelling I play other games such as The Witcher. Skyrim is my game for when I want to play a sandbox game.
Elhanan wrote...
If the game had been the same standard as the marriages, it would have been placed on the shelf ages ago. But it was the drama and humor of better fare that kept me returning for more.
Drama? No, I haven't seen any drama in Skyrim. But Skyrim certainly has humor.
Elhanan wrote...
Yes; Skyrim writing could use improvement, but the mechanics of gameplay may be hard to beat. I hope to see future products that have both.
Agreed.
Modifié par Luc0s, 19 mai 2012 - 05:39 .
#20146
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 05:52
Giggles_Manically
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Cutscenes for a defined protagonist work since they are defined.
Sam Fisher and John Marston have a defined personality.
IT does not work in an RPG since they dont give you a defined personality. I have played tabletop RPGs for at least a decade now (Pathfinder D&D, Star Wars D20, and Dark Heresy). In an RPG the moment where you have control taken away from your character is the moment you fail as a role playing game or dungeon master.
Like in Return to Ostagar where they have the Warden make "I HAZ A SAD" face at seeing the king's body. You see that is the WRONG thing to do in that scene since not every warden feels sad at that scene.
As soon as a game tells me "You feel thus" I know its less of an RPG for it.
Sam Fisher and John Marston have a defined personality.
IT does not work in an RPG since they dont give you a defined personality. I have played tabletop RPGs for at least a decade now (Pathfinder D&D, Star Wars D20, and Dark Heresy). In an RPG the moment where you have control taken away from your character is the moment you fail as a role playing game or dungeon master.
Like in Return to Ostagar where they have the Warden make "I HAZ A SAD" face at seeing the king's body. You see that is the WRONG thing to do in that scene since not every warden feels sad at that scene.
As soon as a game tells me "You feel thus" I know its less of an RPG for it.
#20147
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 06:54
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Table-top RPGs are different from video-game RPGs. What works in table-top does not necessarily work in a video-game and vice-versa.
Gamers or game-developers who try to turn their video-game into a table-top game often fail in my opinion. The roleplaying experience of a table-top game simply doesn't translate well to a digital medium. Therefor roleplaying in video-games should be approached on it's own merits.
In most modern RPG video-games, roleplaying has become "assuming the role of a certain character and be him". Roleplaying works exceptionally well in that way. One only has to look at Mass Effect or The Witcher to see how well it works. Games like these give you a true roleplaying experience, more so than Skyrim does, and both games have cutscenes. So yeah, go figure.
Gamers or game-developers who try to turn their video-game into a table-top game often fail in my opinion. The roleplaying experience of a table-top game simply doesn't translate well to a digital medium. Therefor roleplaying in video-games should be approached on it's own merits.
In most modern RPG video-games, roleplaying has become "assuming the role of a certain character and be him". Roleplaying works exceptionally well in that way. One only has to look at Mass Effect or The Witcher to see how well it works. Games like these give you a true roleplaying experience, more so than Skyrim does, and both games have cutscenes. So yeah, go figure.
#20148
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:00
marbatico
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i'm playing on PS3, and every time i try to go swimming my game freezes. does anybody else have this problem?
#20149
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:01
Yrkoon
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Everyone stop.
It's clear that we've been enlightened, for we have all been wrong and Luc0s, the superior mind that he is, has been right. On all matters in this thread. Luc0s, we all bow to you and apologise for attempting to dispute your points, which have been impregnably accurate and beyond any logical dispute.
With heads and eyes diverted, we humbly request that you shine your rightious light elsewhere, and leave us clueless, worthless, heathens to wallow in the darkness with our hopelessly flawed Skyrim game discussion.
....before I call a mod here to make you stop.
It's clear that we've been enlightened, for we have all been wrong and Luc0s, the superior mind that he is, has been right. On all matters in this thread. Luc0s, we all bow to you and apologise for attempting to dispute your points, which have been impregnably accurate and beyond any logical dispute.
With heads and eyes diverted, we humbly request that you shine your rightious light elsewhere, and leave us clueless, worthless, heathens to wallow in the darkness with our hopelessly flawed Skyrim game discussion.
....before I call a mod here to make you stop.
Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 mai 2012 - 07:05 .
#20150
Posté 19 mai 2012 - 07:03
Addai
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For some people, they don't and never will. You need to accept that not everyone shares your preferences and outlook. I don't mind at all people who say "I prefer cinematic games with third person roleplay." What irritates the hell out of me is when people say "this is what roleplay IS and it's the way of the future so you backward rubes just need to be enlightened and sign on." I don't accept it and I never will because my free time and disposable income is my own and I'm in no way obligated to give either to a game I don't like. Also, if all developers want to make exactly the same kind of game then I don't see how that enriches game development. Variety is a good thing.Luc0s wrote...
In most modern RPG video-games, roleplaying has become "assuming the role of a certain character and be him". Roleplaying works exceptionally well in that way. One only has to look at Mass Effect or The Witcher to see how well it works. Games like these give you a true roleplaying experience, more so than Skyrim does, and both games have cutscenes. So yeah, go figure.
Modifié par Addai67, 19 mai 2012 - 07:04 .
